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syph0n

AoS 2 - Order Serpentis, Scourge Privateers, Shadowblades Discussion

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Welcome to the remaining 5 collectors of the 'Druchii', those of us who still like our aelves as marauding pirates of the Mortal Realms, dragon riding Knights and, for what it's worth, shadowy assassins and black-clad riders. Rather than individual threads for these factions, I think we might benefit from discussing them as a group of factions. 

With AoS2 giving us realm artefacts and endless spells, and with the rise of allies such as the Idoneth Deepkin, Daughters of Khaine (and Stormcast I guess!), I still feel these aelves have a place in the world. 

Links to past or relevant threads:

I'll start with my ideas, but I'm not an experienced gamer at all, however I am a trier!

I think Order Serpentis are probably the strongest of the smaller factions. I'm thinking you build strong lists up to 1500 or 1600 points leaving room to ally in and take endless spells. It's probably worth taking the battalion and with points drops to all units bar the dragon, we have a bit more flexibility. Most of my lists revolve around taking 2 dragons and 2 hydras, however, sacrificing one of them for a behemoth ally might be useful. For example, the new points could allow for a block of 20 Corsairs with a Fleetmaster and then a Kharibdyss with a Fleetmaster for 400 points. I may be wrong, but the Fleetmasters could both use their command abilities to have their units rerolls to hit. How this might help with Anvilgard allegiance abilities is up for discussion too. 

I've also put thought to use of the Chronomatic Cogs, though that would mean allying in a Medusa, Tidecaster or Sorceress. This could help to get the Drakespawn into combat sooner, getting off their charges for the +1 to wounds. 

There is of course the awesome Khinerai and Melusai, both capable of adding something missing. 

I've also been lovingly looking at my Bolt Throwers, who I will try to convince anyone who listens that they're actually Stormcast Ballista! They will have plenty of gold on... 

Not sure on the Realm artefacts so far, but something to give more Mortal Wounds would really be useful, particularly if you have a battalion to give an extra artefact to both dragons. 

Finally, not sure about using the Dark Riders. I think the Assassins could have value, dropped by fast moving dragons somewhere with a particular artefact but it's quite one shot I guess. 

Anyone else excited to see their older armies see a new lease of life? What ideas can we rustle up that let's us play fun games, even if we are cast off the table and mortally wounded perpetually? :) 

Edited by syph0n
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Awesome thread! :)

I've already chimed in on the Darkling Covens in 2.0 thread on just how damn good their Sorceresses are going to be at getting endless spells off.

Beyond that I haven't had much of a chance to look at the Realm Artefacts that might help my own faction, but Chamon's Rune Blade for -3 rend on an Assassin would go a long way towards covering a glaring weakness (you could even make the Assassin general with Legendary Fighter in a mixed or Shadowblades list to give him another attack before he gets cut to pieces, it doesn't matter, you can make another character general as soon as he's dead).

Have you spotted that all the old Dark Elf factions can ally in Ioneth Deepkin? Might be a few sneaky tricks in there, but I've not fully read their rules yet and don't know how good they are out of water or their allegiance abilities. 

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52 minutes ago, Double Misfire said:

Awesome thread! :)

I've already chimed in on the Darkling Covens in 2.0 thread on just how damn good their Sorceresses are going to be at getting endless spells off.

Beyond that I haven't had much of a chance to look at the Realm Artefacts that might help my own faction, but Chamon's Rune Blade for -3 rend on an Assassin would go a long way towards covering a glaring weakness (you could even make the Assassin general with Legendary Fighter in a mixed or Shadowblades list to give him another attack before he gets cut to pieces, it doesn't matter, you can make another character general as soon as he's dead).

Have you spotted that all the old Dark Elf factions can ally in Ioneth Deepkin? Might be a few sneaky tricks in there, but I've not fully read their rules yet and don't know how good they are out of water or their allegiance abilities. 

That would make the Assassin a bomb against heroes. I couldn't field a Mixed Order list to have him as general, but the artefacts sound very powerful. 6 attacks on 3/3, -3 rend and D3 damage against heroes (if I remember right) is nothing to sniffed at. He'll die soon after but if you'd drop him in on the underside of dragon... 

I mentioned about the Deepkin in the original post, but unsure which units might best suit. I've not investigated much as I've got a 1k list for DoK to focus on first, but I imagine the Morsarr might be best. 

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Hi @Chris Tomlin: couldn't PM for some reason, hence the tag. I've renamed the thread to be more inline with your style. Also thought it might be best/easiest to combine these factions into one thread so there's a chance of an actual discussion occuring! Feel free to delete this post if you're happy, if not, feel free to split the post into 3 for each faction! :)

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New app is available and looking at the Drakespawn Knights it says add 1 to wounds AND damage on the charge. Is this new or does my memory betray me? 

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42 minutes ago, syph0n said:

New app is available and looking at the Drakespawn Knights it says add 1 to wounds AND damage on the charge. Is this new or does my memory betray me? 

I'm sorry but your memory betryed you. They've always been like that and always too soft in combat with only 6 attacks(for the knights) in a unit of 5 models

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I think my eyes aren't what they were. The amount of times I've used them and I've missed the extra damage on the charge!

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Any thoughts so far guys? 

I keep getting to around 1500 points with Order Serpentis using two hydras and dragons, then a combination of allies:

  • Dark Shards and Sorceresses (can't test this list in Azyr yet as it doesn't work for allies from Darkling Covens)
  • 2x Ballistas (using the Dark Aelf models, naturally)
  • Blood Sisters / Doomfire Warlocks and Medusa
  • Assassin bomb using a Realm Artefact

I think the Cogs are a worthy inclusion for the movement bonuses. Possibly the Shackles or the Pendulum to force movement into certain areas. Funnel towards the killing zones, charge with the Drakespawn Knights, maybe pull off some Anvilgard shenanigans. 

I've not had chance to pick up the Malign Sorcery or GHB yet. Any standout artefacts for a dragon lord?

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Hi, 

ive got a force I’m assembling for AoS 2, which I conceived as a druchii force. I translated this as basically a darkling covens force of spears and crossbows, led by sorceresses. I allied in witch elves, cold one riders, and an assassin, as these all fitted in with my idea of the classic druchii army from the old Warhammer fantasy. 

Biggest change I’ve seen recently has been the arrival of the DoK faction, massively expanding the witch elves side of things. I’m not sure about the impact of new AoS stuff yet as I haven’t yet bought the book. Anything to look out for? 

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The Daughters of Khaine are strong in their own right, and there are also some very strong units in the Idoneth Deepkin too which can be allied.

I personally like the idea of using the Melusai and Medusa from the Daughters of Khaine, but I hear that the Khinerai make for great, cheap objective nabbers at 80pts per unit. 

Of the new Stormcast, my eye is on the Celestar Ballista, because I have two Reaper Bolt Throwers which are consigned to Warhammer Legends. This can see their return! 

Remember, you are not only limited by points (200 at 1k, 400 at 2k) but also by 1 in 4 units. It makes it that bit harder to take allies if your army has less units (like Order Serpentis for example might).

You may also want to look at the Darkling Covens  thread (linked in the first post), because if your army is mostly Darkling Covens, you also have access to the allegiance abilities as per GHB18. 

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I know this is a really niche complaint, but the fact that the Mistweaver Saih and Tenebrael Shard are still in their own little section is still a bit of a bummer for me.

I'm aware that they were both released before GW really nailed down the various new Aelf aesthetics (Daughters of Khaine, Idoneth Deepkin), I was hoping they would get merged into Shadowblades, or at least be available as allies. Shame, as they're only the pair of them and not really enough to write home about to justify taking Order allegiance over something stronger like Daughters of Khaine.

Back on topic, at least some of the Scourge Privateer units got a points drop - even though I'm struggling to build up the motivation to continue painting mine! Do people think the Kharibdyss / Scourgerunner Chariots are worth considering now?

The Black Ark Fleetmaster gets a boost now because of being able to use Command Points - handy for whipping a big unit of Corsairs into shape!

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I keep going back to the Scourge Privateers because I love the aesthetic. 

Not played with the Kharibdyss or the Scourgerunner but they are quite cheap now. Using the Realm Reaver battalion, or two, Anvilgard allegiance and spamming the Fleetmasters could make for a nicer low point game. At 2k points you could easily be taking 80 Corsairs for 520 points, buffed by the reroll hits. I still think if you do the maths, it's not Khaine level damage at all, but I think it might be fun. 

I built a list including Ballistas (using Dark Aelf ones model wise though), loads of Kharibdyss and allying a sorceress. Trying to find a Fleetmaster for key units; 2 big Corsair blocks and 2 of the Kharibdyss. I think it had two Realm Reaver battalions. I'd load it, but Azyr isn't working! I don't think I have it in me to paint that many Corsairs haha. 

Regarding Tenebrael and Mistweaver, I keep looking the models and I agree that they don't warrant building an Order list just for them, but actually, with the new ally rules it's quite tricky to get a lot of allies in if you run Order Serpentis. With magic potentially being so strong, having the Darkling Covens battleline as a base, you take the 300 point tax for shards or spears that you can sacrifice, giving at least two sorceresses plenty of sacrifice fodder and a bit of screening for things like Hydras. Don't think Mistweaver is worth it over a normal sorceress, but Tenebrael I think is good and using him to piggy back another assassin with the Sword of Judgment is a bit filthy. Maybe use Khinerai as well for cheapness. Both break Anvilgard unfortunately. 

 

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I’m very much more a Narrative type than competitive, so my main gripe about the Mistweaver / Shard duo is that they fit the Ulgu theme I’m working on perfectly!

It’s just a shame their rules aren’t more flexible. 

I do also have a Darkling Covens Sorceress on the shelf, I might even consider painting it!

Mind you, I paint so slowly I don’t why any of this even bothers me asi probably won’t be done with all these Aelves until next edition! ?

Edited by Circus of Paint
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2nd post, just for readability. 

Mixed Order:

Allegiance: Order
Mortal Realm: Ulgu
Dreadlord On Black Dragon (320)
- General
- Exile Blade & Shield
- Trait: Legendary Fighter
Sorceress (100)
Sorceress (100)
Assassin (80)
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement 
10 x Darkshards (100)
10 x Darkshards (100)
10 x Dreadspears (100)
10 x Drakespawn Knights (280)
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)
War Hydra (180)
War Hydra (180)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)
Malevolent Maelstrom (20)

Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 122

Stick the assassin somewhere like the Dragon or Khinerai, though I'm conscious they'd probably die dropping him off when they could be more useful nicking objectives late on.

Sorceresses move forward with the shards. Sacrifice for those bonuses, looking to get off the Cogs for some movement boosts initially then casting later. 

Ballistas for some longer range support in the backline, though I don't know if they're reaper good yet. 

Not convinced there's the damage in this army, but it's very old school Druchii. Using the Realm artefacts could be important, as could Endless Spells. Left 50 points for a Command Point. Maybe a bit of jigging you could get the Ebondrake Warhost in for another artefact but not sure what to sacrifice. 

Scourge Privateers

Allegiance: Scourge Privateers
Mortal Realm: Chamon

Leaders
Black Ark Fleetmaster (40)
- General
- Trait: Legendary Fighter
- Artefact: Rune Blade 
Black Ark Fleetmaster (40)
- Artefact: Alchemical Chain 
Black Ark Fleetmaster (40)
- Artefact: Hydroxskin Cloak 
Black Ark Fleetmaster (40)
Sorceress (100)
- Allies

Battleline
40 x Black Ark Corsairs (260)
- Vicious Blade & Wicked Cutlass
40 x Black Ark Corsairs (260)
- Vicious Blade & Wicked Cutlass
1 x Scourgerunner Chariots (80)
1 x Scourgerunner Chariots (80)
10 x Black Ark Corsairs (80)
- Vicious Blade & Repeater Handbow
10 x Black Ark Corsairs (80)
- Vicious Blade & Repeater Handbow

Behemoths
Kharibdyss (160)
Kharibdyss (160)

War Machines
Celestar Ballista (100)
- Allies
Celestar Ballista (100)
- Allies

Battalions
Realm Reavers (150)
Realm Reavers (150)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 300 / 400
Wounds: 175
 

100 Corsairs is some paint job! You get 3 artefacts due to 2 battalions, and Chamon has some great ones. I've picked one for damage, one for magic support and one for get out of jail. 

It feels like an attrition list! Oh, you'd also get Anvilgard. If I had an airbrush, I'd only need another 50 Corsairs and a Kharibdyss and I'd be tempted to do this one. ??

Edited by syph0n
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100 Corsairs! They look like good lists, although just the thought of that many models to paint... ?

Chamon would be a fantastic narrative theme for Scourge Privateers, as they could go hunt down all those Tzaangor and other Tzeentchian beasts that have infested the realm.

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6 hours ago, Circus of Paint said:

100 Corsairs! They look like good lists, although just the thought of that many models to paint... ?

Chamon would be a fantastic narrative theme for Scourge Privateers, as they could go hunt down all those Tzaangor and other Tzeentchian beasts that have infested the realm.

Yeah I always try and think narratively. That, or they've raided the coasts of Chamon (I guess there must be) and they've managed to accrue some treasure. 

Aqshy could work equally well, as you'd be in line with them as an Anvilgard force, though can't remember their artefacts yet (I know they're good anyway). 

Maybe you could drop a 40 block of Corsairs for a Kharibdyss and spend the rest of the points allying in another Sorceress or some Khinerai but that would lose Anvilgard. Maybe take some Aetherwings. I've been thinking of using the Tyranid flyers with hormagaunt claws and a bit of greenstuff work for some more suitable looking druchii esque Aetherwings.... 

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Of these 3 factions which do you feel

brings the strongest presence as allies to Darkling Covens for a more old school Dark Elf type Army?  I was thinking Scourge Privateers but was told that Black Ark Corsairs are terrible which leaves me wondering who, if any allies, are worth grabbing. 

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24 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

Of these 3 factions which do you feel

brings the strongest presence as allies to Darkling Covens for a more old school Dark Elf type Army?  I was thinking Scourge Privateers but was told that Black Ark Corsairs are terrible which leaves me wondering who, if any allies, are worth grabbing. 

Daughters of Khaine and Idoneth

the Assassin for some surprises.

drakespawn Knight are Meh or Okay-ish.

 

corsairs were good in 8th Edi. They‘re worse than a goblin now...(I haven‘t checked but I guess they‘ve the worst Statline of all elves)

Edited by JackStreicher

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1 hour ago, Ravinsild said:

How are Dark riders?

They‘re ****** well:

their Ranged attacks won‘t do anything and their melee attacks as well... 

corsairs and dark riders can‘t do anything, they suck at range and melee, have bad armour and are utterly useless - I don‘t know why GW doesn‘t simply replace their Warscrolls with the Warhammer Legends Warscroll

Edited by JackStreicher

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I'm sure I saw on here that actually, Corsairs are the best value for money of the basic battleline aelves. You can also use them alongside a Fleetmaster for reroll hits. 

In terms of allies, the Black Dragon is a good model, though 320 points. The Hydra is only 180 points and everyone I know who plays rates them. Obviously the Daughters of Khaine and Idoneth Deepkin are very strong but a lot of their strength is in the synergy within their own armies. 

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Allegiance: Anvilgard
Mortal Realm: Ulgu
Dreadlord On Black Dragon (320)
- General
- Exile Blade & Shield
- Trait: Legendary Fighter
- Artefact: Dimensional Blade 
Dreadlord On Black Dragon (320)
- Exile Blade & Shield
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement 
Sorceress (100)
- Allies
10 x Dreadspears (100)- Allies
5 x Drakespawn Knights (140)
5 x Drakespawn Knights (140)
5 x Drakespawn Knights (140)
1 x Drakespawn Chariots (80)
War Hydra (180)
War Hydra (180)
Ebondrake Warhost (150)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 200 / 400
Wounds: 103

List #1 as discussed @Kaleun.

List #2 as follows:

Allegiance: Order Serpentis
Mortal Realm: Ulgu
Dreadlord On Black Dragon (320)
- General
- Exile Blade & Shield
- Trait: Legendary Fighter
- Artefact: Dimensional Blade 
Dreadlord On Black Dragon (320)
- Exile Blade & Shield
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement 
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- Allies
5 x Drakespawn Knights (140)
5 x Drakespawn Knights (140)
5 x Drakespawn Knights (140)
1 x Drakespawn Chariots (80)
5 x Blood Sisters (140)
- Allies
War Hydra (180)
War Hydra (180)
Ebondrake Warhost (150)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 280 / 400
Wounds: 104
 

Don't think list two is as powerful and loses a command point, an Endless Spell and Anvilgard. The Medusa and Blood Sisters are strong though and can support the Hydra. 

Another option is to take a Sorceress and a Ballista but I don't think that's as powerful either.

Edited by syph0n

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Working hard on trying to get my 15 knights done. I've got a comfortable 2k list to paint, which doesn't include variables like the Daughters of Khaine I like (about 1k points unbuilt). Progress:

IMG_20180722_215935217.jpg.bc79bcbcebe3b22cb4cb479b0e9338a3.jpg

IMG_20180722_215928444.jpg.0fae8e9927df45d94e178817ef6944fa.jpg

Malus is done, bar the base. Most of the Drakespawn are done, though 5 need fine details sorting. Basing needs doing full stop. Here's the rest... 

IMG_20180722_220029266.jpg.bed008601e0c78273ff172d356dceb0b.jpg

IMG_20180722_220045326.jpg.97ff849b2df421b19fc1be005073a635.jpg

That's some Corsairs I've half converted with proper crossbows. I've got some Spears from forever ago which I'm planning on re-basing and will supplement visually by using the now useless dreadlord models as unit champions. Sacrificial lambs for the Sorceress! 

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My list is nearly the same as yours Syp0n, but I opted for more bodies and a balewind for my caster instead of the extra hyrda. I'm still not sure how I want to build my Covens troops. Exploding 6s and best hit chance for swords, extra reach and hit bonus for not moving with spears, or ranged damage with shards. All get rerolling 1s and 2s, but shards get free potshots before getting charged and again if anvilgard activates. Also not sure about balewind; I've never actually used one before. Would it be better to just hide her behind terrain for fear of sniping, or is a 32 inch range word of pain and +1 to cast/unbind worth it? The new 1 ally per 4 allegiance units is so restrictive. ?

 

Allegiance: Anvilgard/Order Serpentis
Mortal Realm: Ulgu
Dreadlord On Black Dragon (320)
- General
- Lance & Shield
- Trait: Legendary Fighter
- Artefact: Dimensional Blade 
Dreadlord On Black Dragon (320)
- Sword & Shield
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement 
Sorceress (100) - Allies
20 x Dreadspears (200) - Allies
5 x Drakespawn Knights (140)
5 x Drakespawn Knights (140)
5 x Drakespawn Knights (140)
1 x Drakespawn Chariots (80)
1 x Drakespawn Chariots (80)
War Hydra (180)
Ebondrake Warhost (150)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 300 / 400

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I've found the ally restriction a pain too, as I'd love to take an assassin in the list.

I keep thinking if the sacrifice bonus is worth it, but I opted out of the Balewind because then I'm essentially paying 300 points (including some Spears to sacrifice) for a Sorceress who is quite squishy. However, the Balewind might give her more durability. I'm not sure though if I just prefer the durability of the extra hydra. That's what makes me want to take the Medusa and some Blood Sisters, because she at least has some offense and moving her with the Sisters and a Hydra might help her support more, where I'd be tempted to hide the Sorceress. 

(GW, can you just give us the Drakespawn Sorceress back please?)

 

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