AoS 2 - Seraphon Discussion

[sorokyl]

Hey guys. trying to come up with my first Seraphon list(2k) . Been collecting them for a while but this will be my first time playing them. 

I want my list to include Engine of the Gods, Astrolith Bearer, and a Slann. The rest I'm pretty flexible on. For the Slann I have Kroak and my play group is fine with me playing him with either warscroll.  After the nurfs though I'm better off with a Starmaster.   
I'm currently looking at a Fangs of Sotek list:

LEADERS
Slann Starmaster (260) - General
Engine of the Gods (220)
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (160)
Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (260)
Saurus Sunblood (120)

UNITS
40 x Saurus Warriors (360) -Spears
10 x Saurus Warriors (100) -Clubs
10 x Saurus Warriors (100) -Clubs

BATTALIONS
Sunclaw Starhost (130)
Fangs of Sotek (70)

ENDLESS SPELLS
Balewind Vortex (40)

That's basically the minimum reqs for the batallion + AB + EoTG + BV, with 1 unit of warriors pushed to 40.

I have 180 Points left and am considering: 
Troglodon
10x Guard - can summon Eternity Warden on turn 2 if my Slann seems threatened
10x Knights 

These are the rest of the models I have in my pool not in the 1820 points above:

15 Guard
100 skinks
 15 knightsBastiladon 
 3 terradon riders
Bastiladon
Troglodon (or another Carno)
Skink Starpiest / priest (got lots of skink bits to make either one)
OB on foot

 

 What do you guys think.  And how do you envision such a list working? What am I trying to accomplish? 

Thanks
 

[Droxyl]

@sorokyl

I run almost the same list and really enjoy it. Don't think its close to the most competitive list Seraphon can run but I always enjoy fielding mass warriors and this list lets me.  I don't have a Vortex so I spend those and the left over points you have on a Skink Starpriest and the rest on single units of salamanders.  I use the Priest to buff the 40 block of warriors  with his buff and spell and the salamanders to work on hard to kill targets.

I usually buff the 40 warriors and teleport them turn 1 to block a huge part of the field and keeping my enemy from the objectives. If you have a good target you can even get them into combat with the Sunblood nearby for command ability rerolls before your opponent has a turn.

I summon Rippers or Terradons with EoG and mass skinks with most summon points and play the objectives. I find I will loose most drawn out fights so I flee and teleport a lot to get on those objectives. 

This list starts the game with 3 command points so make sure you use them. I am guilty of this often. 

I win more games then I loose, but most are close and I will not have much left on the table at the end of games against good armies. 

[sorokyl]

2 hours ago, Droxyl said:

@sorokyl

I summon Rippers or Terradons with EoG and mass skinks with most summon points and play the objectives. I find I will loose most drawn out fights so I flee and teleport a lot to get on those objectives. 

 

What do you mean mass skinks.. slann can only summon in blocks of 10 right? 

[kenshin620]

5 minutes ago, sorokyl said:

What do you mean mass skinks.. slann can only summon in blocks of 10 right? 

Perhaps, but if you roll lucky being next to the astrolith you could theoretically summon 10 per turn. That can quickly add up.

[sorokyl]

2x10  per turn with hardly any luck.  But they aren't as great with 10.  Id rather summon a troglodon or bastilladon turn 2... But I guess I'll learn what works. 

[Skinnyboy]

Thinking about running this:

Allegiance: Seraphon
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Lord Kroak (450)
- General
Slann Starmaster (260)
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (160)
Engine of the Gods (220)
- Artefact: Lens of Refraction 
Engine of the Gods (220)
Engine of the Gods (220)

Battleline
10 x Saurus Warriors (100)
- Clubs
10 x Saurus Warriors (100)
- Clubs
10 x Saurus Warriors (100)
- Clubs

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Prismatic Palisade (30)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 83
 

 

Should be relatively easy to get 60 skinks a turn with the engines and a bastilodon every turn from T2 onwards with kroak putting all his spells into summoning. Engines can be switched to mortal wounds if needed and the Slann can throw damaging endless spells and realm spells. Teleports and summons keeps the army manouverable and with all the bodies the plan is to just swamp objectives and win the war of attrition. Thoughts?

[MacDuff]

My first thought is that I gotta buy and paint more Lizard folk if summoning is so good.

[SolomonHelsing]

Coming up on my third game against a Tzeentch list that has royally tabled me with what i've brought previously. 

Granted second time was using a list I had only just put together for EGGS.

It's a Lord of Change with alot of  horrors and some flamers, I've forgotten what else but there's some wizards of some kind (that narrows it down )

Thinking of 

Slann (Great Rememberer)

Oldblood Carnosaur 

3 x Skinks x 10

2 x Bastiladons with Solar Engine. 

Shadow strike with Starpriest With Sunderblade, 2 x Chameleons and Terradons. 

 Sunblood with Ghyrstrike.

Obviously a rather compact list, but i'm hoping to send the Shadowstrike in to target the lord of change, alongside the two bastiladons, try to wipe that out from the start to limit what he can do. 

It's likely a one drop list, and I can't currently counter that with painted models, and as it's for a ladder league i'm wanting to get as much in final two rounds as  I can, including the painting point. Else I'd take a dracoth tail to win back chance of first turn. 

[sorokyl]

On 8/31/2018 at 2:11 PM, Skinnyboy said:

Thinking about running this:

Allegiance: Seraphon
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Lord Kroak (450)
- General
Slann Starmaster (260)
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (160)
Engine of the Gods (220)
- Artefact: Lens of Refraction 
Engine of the Gods (220)
Engine of the Gods (220)

Battleline
10 x Saurus Warriors (100)
- Clubs
10 x Saurus Warriors (100)
- Clubs
10 x Saurus Warriors (100)
- Clubs

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Prismatic Palisade (30)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 83
 

 

Should be relatively easy to get 60 skinks a turn with the engines and a bastilodon every turn from T2 onwards with kroak putting all his spells into summoning. Engines can be switched to mortal wounds if needed and the Slann can throw damaging endless spells and realm spells. Teleports and summons keeps the army manouverable and with all the bodies the plan is to just swamp objectives and win the war of attrition. Thoughts?

Um what's your math on the engines?  I calculated 35% chance per engine to get 20 skinks.  So you'll get on average 20 a turn.  It was much better before kroaks command ability nurf.    Once your engines take some wounds it will shut down their summoning, you have nothing to really protect your heroes... Very easy to miss on all 3 engines for 2 turns (8% chance. Much higher to only get 20). 

 

Fun list tho

[Future]

Just a quick question. What are you players doing to beat nagash 40 blocks? Are you mashing tar pits with tar pits, putting ripper-dactyls on the necro, or something else? 

 

I guess a simpler question is what tools are you using to effectively deal with or ignore hordes? 

[Dervinus]

On 9/4/2018 at 6:30 PM, Future said:

Just a quick question. What are you players doing to beat nagash 40 blocks? Are you mashing tar pits with tar pits, putting ripper-dactyls on the necro, or something else? 

 

I guess a simpler question is what tools are you using to effectively deal with or ignore hordes? 

Engines of the gods sniping heroes with mortal wounds, Rippers killing hordes, Dread Saurian buffed and hunting monsters and heroes, skinks sitting on objectives and screening Slann. 

[PJetski]

On 9/4/2018 at 8:30 PM, Future said:

Just a quick question. What are you players doing to beat nagash 40 blocks? Are you mashing tar pits with tar pits, putting ripper-dactyls on the necro, or something else? 

 

I guess a simpler question is what tools are you using to effectively deal with or ignore hordes? 

Starlight to give them -1hit and charging a Bastiladon with rerollable saves on their flank so their pile-in doesnt give them a lot of models in range to attack.

[Hulksmash]

I think right now my Lizards suffer from having so many good choices. I can build a skink based army, a monster army, a saurus army, a summoning army or some random mix. We've got quite a few excellent battalions which also make decisions hard (Thunder/Sunclaw/Shadowstrike/Dracothian/Fangs). We have the ability to one drop. The only real constraint is what models you have. 

As for dealing with nagash 40 blocks I run 2 40-man saurus spear blocks so I generally have 2 tries to roll a 5+ on the teleport. If I do then I'm hitting generally 1-2 units and pushing decently into them to prevent summoning units back. I've found 40 buffed saurus generally split 15 and 15 with the last 10 to make a tail are enough to murder most units they touch. Right now this is what I'm considering but the core has been the same since 1.0 which is the sunclaw.

Allegiance: Seraphon

Leaders
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (160)
Slann Starmaster (260)
- General
- Trait: Great Rememberer 
Skink Starpriest (80)
Saurus Sunblood (120)
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (240)
- War Spear

Battleline
40 x Saurus Warriors (360)
- Spears
40 x Saurus Warriors (360)
- Spears
10 x Saurus Warriors (100)
- Clubs

Units
2 x Razordons (80)

Battalions
Sunclaw Starhost (130)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 132
 

The additional wargear is to be determined but the 4+ ignore mortal is highly likely to find a home on the slaan. But the other item I'll build to taste. The list also drops a bastiladon on turn 2 and if you want one on turn 3 or you can grab 40 skinks or 10 skinks and an engine. Pick your poison. 

[Charlo]

So upon looking closer at Seraphon, I really like how they seem to play...!

LOTS of magic, mobility and some damn good shooting with potential hordes and strong battleline in Saurus with the Sunclaw Battalion.

My only issue? I hate the figgin' look of the army!

I'd probably convert the army to be based around a conclave of wizards and the like, using a combo of freepeoples and elves to make it so - extensive use of the Collegiate arcane/ eldrich council models too for the bigger stuff,

Think people would play against it? Or too much book keeping?

I guess my only gripe rules-wise would be a total lack of their own magical lore...!? Seems very odd in this day and age.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Charlo

[kenshin620]

Well if it looked like a really good army with a consistent theme, I think I would allow it. But if it is mostly straight up count as, it can be a little hard to swallow or worse be seen as power gamey. It would be like if I liked the rules of skaven, but used grot models on a permanent basis. It can work but it should be more than a different paint job.

Plus there is the thematic issue that Seraphon are also daemons and you'll have to remember your normal looking humans must be affected by any Daemon specific interactions.

 

But as I said first, if you really did a good job of having a flavorful army, it could work. Like maybe the Engine of the Gods could be a heavily converted Magic Wagon. Maybe a Wingless Elf Dragon could be a Carnosaur count as. Hawk Riders into...Terr...oh they don't sell hawk riders anymore...gosh diddly darn it gw why'd you discontinue them!

[Charlo]

Yeah pretty much what I was thinking!

Skinks could be at their worst, a wild mix of ranged unit and at best, a load of freepeoples with fire modelled into thier hands! Them more there are, the stronger the spell gets eh!

Could always have a mixed load of infantry painted as spells (like Nigh haunt...) to show the celestial daemon nature of it all....

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

How viable is an all skink-and-monsters army?

[SolomonHelsing]

2 minutes ago, Thalassic Monstrosity said:

How viable is an all skink-and-monsters army?

I'd say very, going that route i'd maybe suggest a Heavens Watch batallion with big horde units of skinks for the three battleline, and a couple different monsters. Monsters get a heal each of your hero phases, and the whole army if the skink hordes were big enough could get the re-rolls on a single unit from the starseer. 

Making good use of the one teleport you get for putting down a big skink unit down on an objective early, and by the time the enemy can get to them then your monsters will be there to support hopefully. 

Probably going to try something similar once i've fielded everything once for a tournament. Painting anymore than the 30/10 skinks I have isn't high on my list of fun things right now, second to anymore saurus guard haha. 

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

55 minutes ago, SolomonHelsing said:

I'd say very, going that route i'd maybe suggest a Heavens Watch batallion with big horde units of skinks for the three battleline, and a couple different monsters. Monsters get a heal each of your hero phases, and the whole army if the skink hordes were big enough could get the re-rolls on a single unit from the starseer. 

Making good use of the one teleport you get for putting down a big skink unit down on an objective early, and by the time the enemy can get to them then your monsters will be there to support hopefully. 

Probably going to try something similar once i've fielded everything once for a tournament. Painting anymore than the 30/10 skinks I have isn't high on my list of fun things right now, second to anymore saurus guard haha. 

Heaven's Watch! That was the name of it! I'm glad it seems like a possible build.

[PJetski]

14 hours ago, Thalassic Monstrosity said:

How viable is an all skink-and-monsters army?

Very.

Thunderquake Starhost is one of the best lists in the game.

[Gwendar]

On 9/11/2018 at 10:24 AM, PJetski said:

Very.

Thunderquake Starhost is one of the best lists in the game.

How about a Firelance+Thunderquake? I have someone just getting into AoS and we came up with this. He doesn't want a horde army nor has much interest in summoning a bunch of models in that he doesn't have:

Allegiance: Seraphon

Leaders
Slann Starmaster (260)
- General
- Trait: Great Rememberer 
- Artefact: Incandescent Rectrices 
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (240)
- War Spear
- Artefact: Blade of Realities 

Battleline
5 x Saurus Knights (90)
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (90)
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (90)
- Lances

Units
3 x Skink Handlers (40)
1 x Razordons (40)
3 x Kroxigor (160)

Behemoths
Troglodon (160)
Bastiladon (280)
Bastiladon (280)

Battalions
Firelance Starhost (150)
Thunderquake Starhost (120)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2

[Future]

Thanks for the replies about the hordes! I honestly have run saurus with clubs in groups of 10 but never tried the 40 block. I don't even think I own 40 warriors. I've been playing around a lot with firelance as I like the ascetic. I'll look into the rippers for horde killing. I didn't really consider them to be honest. I saw them more as a unit for getting the drop on a hero.

 

Quick follow up question:

I see a lot of lists that run carno at all running it at scar veteran. I thought most people prefer old blood for command ability + range damage. Also I kind of saw old blood as the defacto monster killer. Is that not the case anymore?

Edited September 17, 2018 by Future

[PJetski]

18 hours ago, Gwendar said:

How about a Firelance+Thunderquake? I have someone just getting into AoS and we came up with this. He doesn't want a horde army nor has much interest in summoning a bunch of models in that he doesn't have:

Allegiance: Seraphon

Leaders
Slann Starmaster (260)
- General
- Trait: Great Rememberer 
- Artefact: Incandescent Rectrices 
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (240)
- War Spear
- Artefact: Blade of Realities 

Battleline
5 x Saurus Knights (90)
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (90)
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (90)
- Lances

Units
3 x Skink Handlers (40)
1 x Razordons (40)
3 x Kroxigor (160)

Behemoths
Troglodon (160)
Bastiladon (280)
Bastiladon (280)

Battalions
Firelance Starhost (150)
Thunderquake Starhost (120)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2

Firelance generally isn't worth running unless you are going to build it into Dracothions Tail to deep strike half your army.

Also, 2x Bastiladon isn't as good as Stegadon + Bastiladon. Use those extra points to upgrade the Troglodon into an Engine of the Gods.

[Gwendar]

I thought not. I think he is really just looking for value, and he already bought a SC box. Overall he wants a list of big dino's that can do decently, so Thunderquake seemed to fit the bill. I guess I really only looked at the Engine in terms of it's summoning ability, not so much everything else it can potentially do.

Granted he could buy 2 boxes and have some left over models to summon in. How about running something more like this then? (I didn't realize that thunderquake needed only 1 Kroxigor unit OR 1 salamander/razordon + handlers, so I took those out):

Allegiance: Seraphon
Slann Starmaster (260)
- General
- Trait: Great Rememberer 
- Artefact: Incandescent Rectrices 
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (240)
- War Spear
- Artefact: Blade of Realities 
Engine of the Gods (220)
- Artefact: Coronal Shield 
5 x Saurus Knights (90)
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (90)
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (90)
- Lances
3 x Kroxigor (160)
- 1x Moonhammers
Bastiladon (280)
Stegadon (220)
Firelance Starhost (150)
Thunderquake Starhost (120)
Dracothion's Tail (80)

Total: 2000 / 2000

Or hey, maybe he just give up that battalions and just fit in as many big dino's as possible, but then the cost will start to go up. This is more or less meant to be the most competitive/cost effective way of getting 2k. With 2 SC boxes, he will have warriors and various other things to summon in as needed.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Gwendar

[XReN]

 

On 9/17/2018 at 11:37 PM, Future said:

Quick follow up question:

I see a lot of lists that run carno at all running it at scar veteran. I thought most people prefer old blood for command ability + range damage. Also I kind of saw old blood as the defacto monster killer. Is that not the case anymore?

I'm a SCE player and I'm going to get Old Blood on Carno for CP-farm list to feed him with many-many aditional attacks