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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Seraphon Discussion

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29 minutes ago, Dracovski said:

Carnosaur question:

So I have 2 carnosaurs. I built one as a Scar-veteran on a carnosaur and I'm trying to decide whether to build the 2nd one as another Scar-veteran or as an Oldblood. The only real advantage of the Oldblood I can see is for facing Chaos Daemons. Are there any good reasons to field an Oldblood on carnosaur besides that?

I like the Scar Vet myself, but they make a pretty good power pair together. If you have enough cmd pts to go around, both their cmd abilities are worth it. +1 to hit from Old Blood and 6's = extra hit from Scar Vet. 

You can always magnetize the arm/shoulder of the rider to swap between the shield and power glove.

 

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40 minutes ago, Dracovski said:

Carnosaur question:

So I have 2 carnosaurs. I built one as a Scar-veteran on a carnosaur and I'm trying to decide whether to build the 2nd one as another Scar-veteran or as an Oldblood. The only real advantage of the Oldblood I can see is for facing Chaos Daemons. Are there any good reasons to field an Oldblood on carnosaur besides that?

As Caleb said, the pair of their buffs can be useful together. Also if you're running both and you're against monsters, you can get your jaws hitting on 2's still despite them being over 7 wounds characteristic for the other +1 buff. Also you CAN run the Oldblood on Carnosaur in the Sunclaw Battalion, So -2 Rend Jaws which I know can do very good work if you prioritise targets and make sure it can get its swings in first. 

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the advice! I was mainly focussed on their own damage output so I kinda skipped passed their buff abilities 🙄

 

 

Edited by Dracovski
Typo

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I ❤️ Stegadons! Haha, the Steggy Chief is a beast with the right buffs!!
 
- Coalesced (+1 to Jaw attacks)
- Thunderquake (+1 to melee attacks)
- Constellation (+1 to melee attacks)
- TL Cmd Trait Prime Warbeast (+1 Mount attacks)
- Skink Chief Cmd Pt (+1 to melee attacks)
 
And he is putting out 22 damage vs a 4+ save! Nice! Not bad for just 1 cmd pt spent!
 
Get a bit more nuts...
- Reroll 1s to hit (StarPriest spell or Cmd Pt)
- Cmd Pt from Skink Priest for +1 to hit
 
And he is putting out 32 damage vs a 4+ save! 
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On 6/16/2020 at 6:36 PM, Calebexnihilo said:

You can always magnetize the arm/shoulder of the rider to swap between the shield and power glove.

powerglove20110725-22047-w4styn.gif.9f33945d7bf8c85f3d0ac540c4b3fde0.gif

 

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Summoning got changed for Seraphon in the new Battletome! It is alot more random now, but NOT dead! Summoning is more of an added benefit of Starborne instead of a strategy to plan an army around.

Fun chart for summoning costs per point:

 

Seraphon Summoning - Points per CCP.jpg

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On 4/5/2020 at 2:15 PM, umpac said:

How is this looking for a competitive shooting oriented list?

 

Lord Kroak (320) 

Skink Priest (70)

Skink Starseer (140) General, Master of Star Rituals, Fusil of Conflagration

 

10 x Skinks (60) - Javelins 

10 x Skinks (60) - Javelins 

10 x Skinks (60) - Javelins 

10 x Skinks (60) - Javelins 

12 x Salamander Hunting Pack (240)

12 x Salamander Hunting Pack (240)

12 x Salamander Hunting Pack (240) 

Bastiladon (220)

Bastiladon (220)

Balewind Vortex

Total: 1970pts               Wounds: 130

 

General thoughts:

Strenghts

Bastiladon provides long range damage (easy turn 1 damage with run & shoot), and I should generate enough +CP to double tap every turn. +50% damage to Daemons is a solid bonus, plenty of those around.

Salamanders go behind skink screen and dish out a ton of high rend damage (with some MW sprinkled on top) and with +1 Jaw attack they're equally scary in melee.

Kroak puts a clock on the game by dealing constant AoE mortal wounds. Vortex + Vassal means Celestial Deliverance has a 28" range (up from 10"), and Comet deals global mortals wounds to pick off support units. Stellar Tempest to deal with hordes.

Weaknesses

Not a lot of bodies for objectives, but not that few either. Coalesced means low bravery. especially on sallies, but I have decent +CP generation and can pick Celestial Harmony on the Starseer so there are some ways to deal with it. A lot is also riding on the Starseer who is VERY squishy. Reliant on CP so bad +CP rolls can cripple the list.

 

Edit: Also no idea what to do with the last 30 pts. Can drop 10 skinks and make it 90pts (still no clue what to do with those points though).

I think I would spend 10 of those 30 points, along with dropping your Skink Priest and Skink Starseer (or 20 points and drop one unit of 12 Salamanders), for a Slann.  I agree that putting their buffs on a unit of Salamanders is great, but I think you need the Slann along with Kroak for better CP generation - you want to be able to shoot twice with 2 Bastiladons and you also want to pass morale with your Salamanders.  I also second the recommendation for The Burning Head, gotta fit it in there somehow.

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Can the new Seraphon take Stormcast or a Frostheart Phoenix as allies?   I’m new to Order, been in the Living City for a bit but am thinking of moving.  Maybe to the jungle, but possibly to Azyr.   I want my pets to come with me though.  

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On 6/27/2020 at 6:16 AM, Lord Krungharr said:

Can the new Seraphon take Stormcast or a Frostheart Phoenix as allies?   I’m new to Order, been in the Living City for a bit but am thinking of moving.  Maybe to the jungle, but possibly to Azyr.   I want my pets to come with me though.  

Seraphon can only ally with Stormcast Eternals or Sylvaneth

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Trying this list out tomorrow as I want to shy away from Salamanders, expecting a big nerf in the coming weeks.

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

Allegiance: Seraphon - Constellation: Fangs of Sotek
LEADERS
Lord Kroak (320) - Spell : Stellar Tempest
Slann Starmaster (260) - General - Command Trait : Arcane Might  - Spell : Celestial Equilibrium
Skink Starpriest (120)
Skink Priest (70)
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140) - Artefact :  Serpent God Dagger  
UNITS
40 x Skinks (240) - Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
40 x Skinks (240) - Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60) - Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
10 x Chameleon Skinks (180)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Bound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (70)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Bound Purple Sun of Shyish (60)
 

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4 hours ago, Xasto said:

Trying this list out tomorrow as I want to shy away from Salamanders, expecting a big nerf in the coming weeks.

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

Allegiance: Seraphon - Constellation: Fangs of Sotek
LEADERS
Lord Kroak (320) - Spell : Stellar Tempest
Slann Starmaster (260) - General - Command Trait : Arcane Might  - Spell : Celestial Equilibrium
Skink Starpriest (120)
Skink Priest (70)
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140) - Artefact :  Serpent God Dagger  
UNITS
40 x Skinks (240) - Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
40 x Skinks (240) - Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60) - Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
10 x Chameleon Skinks (180)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Bound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (70)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Bound Purple Sun of Shyish (60)
 

Anyway to squeez in another Skink Starpriest for the second block of 40 skinks? 40 Skinks without the proper support won't be nearly as productive as they could be.

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21 hours ago, Calebexnihilo said:

Anyway to squeez in another Skink Starpriest for the second block of 40 skinks? 40 Skinks without the proper support won't be nearly as productive as they could be.

Could either drop the priest and purple sun, or drop the chameleon skinks to 5. Oh and maybe drop 5 saurus guards but I dont like losing the defence for kroak

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So the rumor based on the Chumphammer twitter pics is that we'll see the following:

  • Salamanders +30
  • Oldblood on Carno -20
  • Skink Chief Stegadon -20
  • Oracle on Trogolodon -40

If this is accurate then Kroak is still going to be solid and one might even consider taking an oracle in Kroak lists. I think you still probably take astrolith + balewind in Starborne lists but if you were to run Kroak in Coalesced then oracle might be an attractive option as a way of extending Kroak's range without forcing Kroak to sit in one spot.

Oldblood on Carnosaur and Skink Chief on Stegadon changes are both nifty. They might be pretty meaningful or not depending on if they are allowing for a new combination of units to fit into 2k. I haven't looked at Thunderquake or Koatl's Claw lists in a while so I'm not really sure what this might enable.

Salamanders to 110 is a beating. They're still good enough to consider using but no longer an auto-include. I'd bet Dracothion's Tail lists will still want at least 3 but fitting more than that could be hard. I'd still probably take them over Kroxigors in the behemoth battalion too.

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6 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

So the rumor based on the Chumphammer twitter pics is that we'll see the following:

  • Salamanders +30
  • Oldblood on Carno -20
  • Skink Chief Stegadon -20
  • Oracle on Trogolodon -40

If this is accurate then Kroak is still going to be solid and one might even consider taking an oracle in Kroak lists. I think you still probably take astrolith + balewind in Starborne lists but if you were to run Kroak in Coalesced then oracle might be an attractive option as a way of extending Kroak's range without forcing Kroak to sit in one spot.

Oldblood on Carnosaur and Skink Chief on Stegadon changes are both nifty. They might be pretty meaningful or not depending on if they are allowing for a new combination of units to fit into 2k. I haven't looked at Thunderquake or Koatl's Claw lists in a while so I'm not really sure what this might enable.

Salamanders to 110 is a beating. They're still good enough to consider using but no longer an auto-include. I'd bet Dracothion's Tail lists will still want at least 3 but fitting more than that could be hard. I'd still probably take them over Kroxigors in the behemoth battalion too.

Simply based on some of the other point changes in that "leak" I dont think it is legit, but we shall see. +30 points per Salamander will hurt quite a bit. I run 2x3 in my DT list which means I need to find 180 points somewhere. In my list I run two "fluff" choices - An extra Slann and a Knight-Incantor with Everblaze Comet. I feel like I might have to cut either to meet the point requirements, or drop some Skink screens and a couple of endless spells.

It seems odd the normal Stegadon or Dread Saurian didnt drop if the "leak" is true.

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Sorry if this was answered already but with the Dread Saurian not mentioned in the actual battletome -- is it still Matched legal and summonable?

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Guys, a question about Old blood on carno,in a situation where im far from other units,  do you think worth use his command ability to buff ONLY him? Or i have to try to put him in range of my Saurus units  to buff them too?im curious!:)

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On 7/6/2020 at 10:53 PM, Televiper11 said:

Sorry if this was answered already but with the Dread Saurian not mentioned in the actual battletome -- is it still Matched legal and summonable?

Yes, you can find his warscroll on the FW site.

28 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys, a question about Old blood on carno,in a situation where im far from other units,  do you think worth use his command ability to buff ONLY him? Or i have to try to put him in range of my Saurus units  to buff them too?im curious!:)

Definitely. His jaw attacks are 5 damage each and every single counts. I use an oldblood which buffs himself in my TQTH list's variation.

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Posted (edited)

So if rumors are correct , we can try to analyze toroglodont skink oracle compared to classic korak astrolith balewind vortex combo.

Kroak , astrolith , balewind is 500 points

You got 22" range from kroak spell that can cast 3 times, and +12" for stellar tempest, but you have yo cast balewind ( not so hard with +1 astrolith and +1 kroak himself)

Troglo oracle and kroak is 540 points

I can cast easy kroak 3 time spell second turn, i dont need balewind so i cast from kroak 100% but i got only +1 bonus from kroak. 

Is oracle worth now? What do you think?

 

 

Edited by Tizianolol

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16 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

So if rumors are correct , we can try to analyze toroglodont skink oracle compared to classic korak astrolith balewind vortex combo.

Kroak , astrolith , balewind is 500 points

You got 22" range from kroak spell that can cast 3 times, and +12" for stellar tempest, but you have yo cast balewind ( not so hard with +1 astrolith and +1 kroak himself)

Troglo oracle and kroak is 540 points

I can cast easy kroak 3 time spell second turn, i dont need balewind so i cast from kroak 100% but i got only +1 bonus from kroak. 

Is oracle worth now? What do you think?

 

 

Possibly! Throw NIMBLE and Cloak of Feathers on it (or Nimble + Stegadon Helm) and you have a pretty tanky hero to channel all Kroak's spells thru.

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Last bat rep of GHB2019 for me!

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Koatl's Claw
Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell: Celestial Equilibrium
Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (250)
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)
- War Spear
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)
- General
- War Spear
- Command Trait: Dominant Predator
- Artefact: Eviscerating Blade
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
10 x Saurus Knights (200)
- Lances
40 x Saurus Warriors (320)
- Clubs
Extra Command Point (50)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 1900 / 2000 (Yep... accidentally ran this game down 100 points!! Lol)
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 133

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The only problem is with troglo you got only +1 from kroak to cast. The +1 from troglo count if i use him as oracle?

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Posted (edited)
On 7/11/2020 at 1:13 PM, Tizianolol said:

The only problem is with troglo you got only +1 from kroak to cast. The +1 from troglo count if i use him as oracle?

The +1 on the Troglodon is only when he casts a spell, not when Kroak casts a spell through the Troglodon.

I would still take Balewind for Kroak - The +1 spell is really strong. Kroak already wants to cast Comet's Call + 3x Celestial Deliverance + Stellar Tempest (in most matchups). Sure you could cast Comet's Call through another Slann or the Troglodon, but when you are stacking so much +casting on Kroak you really want him to cast Comet's Call too for that D6 targets on a 10+. If Starborne you likely want to forego 1 spell for CCP too, making the +1 spell even more important imo.

I think Troglodon can be good, especially if it drops some points. It is currently just overshadowed by mass Salamanders since it is much easier to win by just nuking your opponent with a bunch of shooting. I have played around with the Troglodon and it felt great against slower armies that want to play back and maybe castle up. Against armies that want to push forward and smash your face like Stonehorns/Terrorgheists  the Troglodon is kind of wasted points since models will be within Kroak's range either way.

Edited by Kasper
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Kroak can cast only 4 spell,  how can you try to cast stellar tempest too?

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The balewind vortex gives you an extra cast.

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Just for clarity, from the turn after you get an extra spell so 5 casts, the turn you cast balewind it uses one up but also gives one back so you still have 4 then. 

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