AoS 2 - Seraphon Discussion

[Nart]

Looks like a decent shooty list. I like geminids - they are set up far, move fast and relatively easy to keep at 6".  Their debuffs are very strong too. You can also take 5 guard instead of 10 skinks to protect Kroak. FoS will, probably, be better for skinks, because your opponent won't be able to charge them without suffering casualties and this all can be for naught, if you roll 4+ for retreat move.  Salamanders also will have good threat range (23").  But DT is also very good for dropping salies in place. You'll have to try both and decide which suits for you more. But if you go DT, 5 guard is almost mandatory.

[AaronWilson]

https://hobbyinthewarp.blogspot.com/2020/04/seraphon-list-breakdown-2k-shooty-kroak.html Hey guys, I've been lucky enough to play a lot with the new book. I've gone ahead and written a very indepth review of my current 2K AoS Seraphon list. I take a look what units I'm using, why I'm using them and the internal synergies of the list. Take a look and let me know what you think  

[swarmofseals]

@AaronWilson -- A nice writeup for sure, although there a couple of errors. You can't use the Skink Priest ability on Kroak, and razordons actually have 18 wounds for 240 points as the razordons themselves get 3 wounds each. 

Personally I'm not a big fan of the Bastiladon in general, and particularly not in a non Thunder Lizard list. It's going to be solid in some matchups for sure, but it's actually really inefficient on offense and really inefficient against mortal wounds. I think these points would be better spent on either more Skinks or more Hunting Packs. Hunting Packs are lovely on offense, and Skinks can be fine on offense when buffed and are just excellent chaff. I'd rather have my opponent waste their time killing chaff Skinks than not killing a Bastiladon. 

Razordons can actually shoot in your own charge phase, too. Just wanted to make sure you are aware of that. It's not ideal though if you don't have a starseer to give them 3d6 charge. 

Here are some damage efficiency numbers comparing razordons and salamanders, assuming the starpriest and priest buffs are active along with some source of rr1's to hit.

Razordons (2d6): 3.4 mw and 10.21 r0 wounds (.073 WDR)

Razordons (3d6): 5.1 mw and 15.32 r0 wounds (.11 WDR)

Salamanders: 6.22 mw and 12.44 r2 wounds (.142 WDR)

 

Salamanders are really just better, even if you manage to charge with the razordons. The main advantage for razordons is that they get an extra 6" of range, but that matters less if you are trying to charge with them, and matters even less in Dracothion's Tail as you can drop them in at close range anyway. Razordons are also getting a lot of mileage out of the Skink Starpriest buff, and if you take that away they lose a lot of their shine. Since that is a hero phase buff, it means that you really can't drop the razordons in without losing the buff at least for the first round of shooting. Salamanders on the other hand are only getting like 1.5 mortal wounds from the buff, so you can much more easily afford to drop them in without losing a ton of damage potential. That also means you can save the buff for something like a big Skink block that will really benefit from it. 

I think you might also want to consider two other things: a regular Slaan Starmaster and a unit of Saurus Guard. Kroak is tough, but a lot of lists can outdrop you and potentially take Kroak off the table on turn 1. If the enemy does that you basically automatically lose as you lose everything that is in reserve and you also lose out on your most important offensive piece. A second Slaan allows you to get more summoning points, take advantage of the excellent Dracothion's Tail command trait, gain even more casting power, and Celestial Equilibrium makes it even more likely that Kroak will get all his spells off (and your skinks too!). Occasionally you can switch your spell to something situationally useful, too.  With the Godbeast Pendant (or Gryph-feather Charm if you take a battalion) it'll be much harder for the opponent to de-Slaan you on turn 1. Temple Guard make this even more unlikely. I'm not sure what the right number is, maybe just 5. You can summon more pretty easily during the battle, but I think having 5 to start provides a good bit of protection since you will rarely get the turn choice. 

I'll post a couple of lists that I have been working on later. 

[swarmofseals]

As promised, this is vaguely what I'm thinking about for a Kroak focused list:

Spoiler

Starborne (Dracothion's Tail)

Kroak - 320

Slaan Starmaster (general, DT artefact and command trait) - 260

Skink Priest - 70

Skink Starpriest - 120

Saurus Astrolith Bearer - 140

1x5 Saurus Guard - 100

1x3 Salamander Hunting Pack - 240

1x40 Skinks (blowpipe and shield) - 240

5x10 Skinks (blowpipe and shield) - 300

Balewind Vortex - 40

Bound Geminids - 70

Bound Quicksilver Swords - 40

Bound Burning Head - 40

I'm definitely not satisfied with this yet, but it's a starting point. I think Burning Head should probably be dropped, for starters.

[AaronWilson]

Hey Swarm, yes 100% sorry for the small errors, 100% I didn't pick up the  Skinks priest Star staff only on Skinks until last night and 100% Razordons are 18 wounds for 240 not 12.

@swarmofseals Yeap, shooting, charging and shooting another 3D6 rounds is great!

Salamanders definately do do more wounds per point per model 100% but I've found that extra 6" range on the weapon pretty fantastic, all that said the next game I try with the list will be with salamanders as I have a good number of games under my belt with the current lis

Appreciate your comments my friend, I think I will take a look at a list with a second slann and dropping the starpriest with rotating the razordons in for salamanders. Certainly want to try more lists rather then just my one, I'm like 15 games with the new book now and want to keep learning.

I hear what you're saying in regards to the Bastiladons, I've found them massively useful in every game I've played, in regards to points per wound put etc totally agree they're average (though hitting on 3s re-rolling 1s is nice) but I have found they just have a lot of practical uses in the game outside of just raw points per wound.

I'm currently working on something different, as I think people will get bored of playing v Kroak real quick! Looking at a lot more fun Koatls Claw list with cold one knights, 7 attacks a model has to be worth something!

Appreciate you noting my errors and will tidy them up on the blog, appreciate your advice on the list. It's certainly not perfect, I've only lost 2 out of 9 games with it so far. I like the double slann heavy endless spell list, if i was to go that way I wouls just drop both bastiladons, and just have skinks as screens, salamanders and casters essentially. I think right now probably the most efficient way to play but I do like trying to make something other than the obvious work (ala salamander spam with kroak).

I will probably make a version of my list with that is hardcore (Kroak, Slann, Starpriest, Priest, 4 x 12 Salamanders, 60 Skinks and spells) and then go ahead and make my fun Koatls Clawl list!

 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by AaronWilson

[AaronWilson]

So quickfired a list this morning

Kroak, Mystical unforging

Slann, Ancient Knowledge, Godbeast Pendant, Stellar Tempest, Godbeast Pendant

Saurus Astrolith Bearer

Skink Starseer

Skink Priest

4 x 10 Skinks

2 x 3 Salamanders

5 Saurus Guard

Balewind, Bound Geminids, Burning head, Purple sun, palisade

It is what it is and something I wanted to try avoid, doubling down on Slann and Salamanders but is a list I will try!

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by AaronWilson

[swarmofseals]

@AaronWilson fair enough re: you preferences! I agree that a Kroak list probably won't be fun to play against repeatedly. And if you're going for mostly friendly games then the Bastiladons are no doubt useful.

 

Here's another list that I've been brewing. I think it's semi-competitive (and by that I mean that it could perform well at tournaments but isn't the kind of list you'd take if you were really trying to go 5-0). I call it "The Friendship Ender."

Spoiler

Starborne: Fangs of Sotek

Kroak - 320

Saurus Astrolith Bearer - 140

Skink Priest - 70

Skink Starpriest - 120

2x3 Ripperdactyl Riders - 180

2x40 Skinks (blowpipes and shields) - 480

20 Skinks (blowpipes and shields) - 120

10 Skinks (blowpipes and shields) - 60

2x Shadowstrike Starhost - 340

Balewind Vortex - 40

That leaves 150 points leftover to either bulk up the Skink units, and/or a second priest or starpriest. Right now it's 4 drops, and I really don't want to go up to 5, but I do think the second starpriest would be particularly good. It might be worth it to drop the  astrolith for a second starpriest and then add more skinks.

The basic idea here is to play the objective game whilst whittling down fliers or other key targets and being generally annoying as you can possibly be. You've got a good chance at going first, which allows you to drop skinks into a large cordon around your opponent's army. Depending on deployment you might choose to drop in two Skink units like this, or you might drop a single unit plus a hero in. You want to make sure that you can activate the fangs command ability, as the opponent will need to charge you to break out of the cordon. You have a 50/50 shot of delaying the enemy for another turn while you rack up the points. Basically you just keep surrounding the opponent and giving as little ground as possible while summoning more annoying units of Skinks to get in the way and hammering away with Kroak.

This list has a lot of weaknesses. Enemies that pile in at distances over 3" can avoid the fangs command ability. Armies with tons of fliers and/or null deployment can get around the encirclement more easily (although this list may still have some game against such armies). Certain battleplans with limited numbers of objectives or lack of neutral objectives will make the strategy much less effective.

Still though, I think many armies will really struggle to deal with this, and it'll be amazing on some battleplans. It will be excruciating to play against though. Might be a good "set an example" army.

[Malakithe]

Im seeing lots of skink lists but what about the mighty Saurus? Is there a way to use them effectively?

[swarmofseals]

6 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Im seeing lots of skink lists but what about the mighty Saurus? Is there a way to use them effectively?

Personally I think there is. I'm not sure about 5-0 territory, but I think they will be very solid. The main upsides are that you get units that are both reasonably defensively efficient and insanely offensively efficient when buffed, but they are quite reliant on buffs to kill any heavy targets. The army is on the slower side, and it's tough to keep your drops really low. There's some strong advantages and disadvantages for sure.

[ReAnimate Studios]

Would love some feed back on this more unorthodox list.

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Thunder Lizard
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders
Slann Starmaster (260)
- Artefact: Itxi Grubs 
- Spell: Celestial Apotheosis
Skink Starseer (140)
- Spell: Hand of Glory
Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (250)
- Artefact: Fusil of Conflaguration 
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)
- General
- War Spear
- Command Trait: Prime Warbeast 

Battleline
5 x Saurus Knights (100)
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (100)
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (100)
- Lances
20 x Saurus Warriors (180)
- Spears

Behemoths
Bastiladon (220)
- Weapon: Solar Engine
Bastiladon (220)
- Weapon: Solar Engine

Battalions
Firelance Temple-host (160)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Bound Purple Sun of Shyish (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 106
 

[swarmofseals]

@ReAnimate Studios I've got a lot of thoughts but it would be helpful to understand why you are making the choices that you are. Are you looking for feedback to make your list more competitive? If so, what are your "non-negotiable" inclusions?

[swarmofseals]

On another note, here's an analysis of buff priority for saurus. Note that these numbers are approximations intended to describe how much of a damage boost you get from each buff on average across the full range of opposing armor saves, with each save roughly weighted by how frequently it appears.

Spoiler

+1 to hit: +39%

+2 to hit: +28% (more than +1 to hit)

+1 to wound: +28%

exploding hits: +39%

re-roll 1's to hit: +16.67%

mortal wounds on 6's to wound: +60%

The clear winner is the Skink Starpriest, who is by far the best buffer for a saurus unit (although being restricted to using the ability once is noteworthy). The Scar-veteran comes in second, then the Oldblood and then the Sunblood.

While I calculated these on Saurus Warriors, I suspect the math holds consistent for Saurus Knights as well.

_______________________

In terms of list building strategy I think you probably want to build around one of the two battalions and then supplement with units that compensate for the weakness of saurus -- speed and armor cracking. 

Salamanders are an obvious choice as they are great all-around.

Skink Starpriest is clearly fantastic as it helps your saurus get through armor.

Kroak is an all around excellent warscroll and can pump out a lot of mortal wounds while also helping your speed a little by making something fly. 

Terradons might be worth considering for the mortal wounds and the speed aspect. 

Skink Starseer can help with the speed aspect a bit, and can also help get through armor (albeit not consistently).

 

As a saurus list isn't going to be able to reliably hit on turn 1 and isn't going to be truly low drop, I think you have to consider a Terradon bomb as a support element. That will give you something that can at least punish the opponent with if they force you to go first.

[swarmofseals]

And here's another list concept. Not sure how strong it is but I could see it having potential.

Spoiler

Coalesced (Koatl's Claw)

Saurus Scar-veteran on Carnosaur (General) - 210

Skink Starpriest - 120

Skink Priest - 70

Skink Starseer - 140

2x 10 Saurus Knights - 400

1x 5 Saurus Knights - 100

2x 20 Skinks - 240

12x Terradon Riders - 360

Firelance Temple-Host - 160

Shadowstrike Temple-Host - 150

The list clocks in at 4 drops so it should compete for the first turn a lot of the time. You basically have two opportunities for a turn 1 charge, either through using the Skink Priest on the Terradon Riders for run+charge or the Skink Starseer on either a Knights unit or the Terradon Riders. You have three convincing hammer units, although if the opponent manages to kill off the Skink Starpriest your ability to deal with armor craters. You've also got 50 points left over for an extra CP.

I suspect that it might be just better to go Thunder Lizard and grab a Thunderquake Temple-Host instead of the starlance, but I think this list might be a good way to put a mix of saurus and skink units on the table in a way that is mutually reinforcing. There are two clear advantages vs. Thunderquake - you get more bodies on the board by a margin and you can fit all 3 skink buffers in the list.

 

[ReAnimate Studios]

13 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

@ReAnimate Studios I've got a lot of thoughts but it would be helpful to understand why you are making the choices that you are. Are you looking for feedback to make your list more competitive? If so, what are your "non-negotiable" inclusions?

I wanted to have a big monster focused list.  It dosnt have to be the most competitive list in the world. I just dont want to play and loose every game lol

[Malakithe]

Maybe something like this for Saurus? It would look cool at least.

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Koatl's Claw

Lord Kroak (320)
Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (250)
- General
- Command Trait: Dominant Predator
- Artefact: Bloodrage Pendant
Skink Starpriest (120)
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)
- War Spear
- Artefact: Eviscerating Blade
30 x Saurus Warriors (270)
30 x Saurus Warriors (270)
10 x Saurus Warriors (90)
8 x Salamander Hunting Pack (160)
8 x Salamander Hunting Pack (160)
Sunclaw Temple-host (140)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Wounds: 129
 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Malakithe

[swarmofseals]

9 hours ago, ReAnimate Studios said:

I wanted to have a big monster focused list.  It dosnt have to be the most competitive list in the world. I just dont want to play and loose every game lol

Ahh OK, I would definitely take a different approach then. The carnosaurs are actually not as killy as you'd think, and your saurus and knight units are too small to really have an impact. All your damage is also relatively low rend, and the Bastiladons are going to eat up CP like candy.

If you want a monster focused list, I'd go the Thunderquake route instead with a Stegadon with Skink Chief, a full unit of Salamander Hunting Pack, a regular Stegadon and then either a second regular Stegadon or a Bastiladon. Then you can fill out from there with some Skinks or Saurus Warriors for bodies, a Skink Priest, perhaps and Engine of the Gods, etc.

8 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Maybe something like this for Saurus? It would look cool at least.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Koatl's Claw

Lord Kroak (320)
Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (250)
- General
- Command Trait: Dominant Predator
- Artefact: Bloodrage Pendant
Skink Starpriest (120)
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)
- War Spear
- Artefact: Eviscerating Blade
30 x Saurus Warriors (270)
30 x Saurus Warriors (270)
10 x Saurus Warriors (90)
8 x Salamander Hunting Pack (160)
8 x Salamander Hunting Pack (160)
Sunclaw Temple-host (140)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Wounds: 129

 

Your list is pretty close to where I ended up, although I'm still not convinced that you can take a Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur as part of the Sunclaw Temple-host. I know the rules say to disregard subheaders -- but that is qualified with "unless it has a seperate entry". As far as I can tell it's never explained what an "entry" is, but if it means either warscroll or separate line in the pitched battle profiles then either way the carnosaur version wouldn't qualify. I kinda think that it's not intended to allow you to take a carnosaur because otherwise why not just use the keyword (like with firelance) instead of the warscroll title. The only effect that using the non-bolded Oldblood would have would be to potentially disallow the carnosaur version. It'd be great if we can take the mounted one, though.

Aside from that I'm also not convinced about Kroak in a Coalesced list. Without the teleport balewind is unwieldy (and not in your list), and the astrolith also loses a little bit of value. You'll also want to use the +1 run/charge asterism more often, and I just don't know how effective Kroak will be without the support. 

The rough list I put together last night looked something like this:

Spoiler

Oldblood

Scar-vet on Carnosaur

2x Starpriest

2x 40 Saurus

1x 10 Saurus

2x 12 Salamander

1x5 Chameleon Skinks

Sunclaw Temple-host

 I think this list is likely pretty solid, but I dislike the fact that it's 7 drops. It would be easy enough to trim down to 6, but I don't see how you go down to 5 or 4 without losing a lot. 

EDIT: just wanted to clarify my reasons for going up to 40 size blocks -- it's points efficient, but more importantly I think it will allow your blocks to weather a serious attack while still retaining power to hit back effectively. 20 Saurus spears fully buffed will deal an average of 12.38 mortal wounds, 27.33 rend 0 wounds and 16.67 rend 1 wounds. At 14 models it drops way down to 6.38 mw, 10 r0 and 11.65 r1. 

Take a couple of typical examples of big units that are likely to charge a saurus block. A typical buffed up Megaboss on Maw-Krusha will kill about 17 saurus on average. With the Warchanter buff on top that goes up to 25. In either case a block of 30 is very likely to drop under that 15 count threshold while a block of 40 has an excellent chance to stay over it in the first case and a conflip to stay over in the second. A 15+ block of Saurus has a really good chance of killing the megaboss on the return attack while <14 is much less likely to get the job done.

9 Morsarr Guard charging in will kill something like 20 saurus on average. Enough to cripple a unit of 30, but a unit of 40 will get to smash back much more effectively.

Overall I think for a slower army like this being able to hit hard back after taking a hit is hugely important.  Most elite attackers are not defensively efficient enough to absorb a hit from another elite attacker in a cost effective way. They either get crippled by the attack, or they are expensive enough that the enemy has "won" the engagement anyway even if they get destroyed on the counter-attack. Saurus are one of the few units that can break that by both being really effective attackers and defensively efficient enough to absorb a big hit in a cost effective way. 

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by swarmofseals

[SolomonHelsing]

Caught myself with a few hours spare, and not much to do. So re-worked my list I did get 3 games in with before the lockdown to include more Saurus Guard, and put a run down up here.

For anyone just wanting to see the list.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Koatl's Claw

Leaders
Slann Starmaster (260)
- Spell: Stellar Tempest
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)
- General
- War Spear
- Command Trait: Dominant Predator
- Artefact: Eviscerating Blade
Skink Starseer (140)
- Spell: Celestial Harmony
Skink Starpriest (120)
- Spell: Fiery Convocation
Skink Priest (70)

Battleline
10 x Saurus Guard (200)
10 x Saurus Guard (200)
10 x Saurus Guard (200)
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers

Units
12 x Salamander Hunting Pack (240)

Behemoths
Bastiladon (220)
- Weapon: Solar Engine

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Bound Quicksilver Swords (40)
Bound The Burning Head (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 130
 

 

Substituted the 20 Warriors and 20 Skinks for the 2 more 10 strong Guard Units and Took out the Astrolith and Kroak for a regular Slann to allow for the extra points, and used the spare 40 for Burning Head to get the bastiladon and salamanders re-rolling 1's. 

11 Drops so it's very much weather the storm of a possible double turn but having enough to whittle down whatever they charge in, and then shoot off what's left to counter charge. 

 

[Calebexnihilo]

I think we all already know the answer.... but a quick Seraphon Strategy video on which is better after the new update: Razordons or Salamanders!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpKCRkrAjE0

[zoso87]

Hello everyone, in the month of July I have a big tournament and I wanted to take seraphon, as I still have not been able to test them for the coronavirus I wanted your opinion on this list

 

Since I have to start painting them and at least have an idea of what I'm going to use

 

Allegiance: Seraphon

- Constellation: Thunder Lizard

 

LEADERS

Engine of the Gods (260)

Lord Kroak (320)

Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (250)

- General

- Command Trait : Prime Warbeast

- Artefact : Fusil of Conflaguration

Skink Priest (70)

UNITS

 

20 x Skinks (120)

- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers

20 x Skinks (120)

- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers

12 x Salamander Hunting Pack (240)

3 x Terradon Riders (90)

- Sunleech Bolas

 

BEHEMOTHS

Stegadon (240)

- Weapon : Skystreak Bow

- Seraphon Battleline (Constellation: Thunder Lizard)

Bastiladon (220)

- Weapon : Solar Engine

 

ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS

Extra Command Point (50)

 

Thank you very much

[swarmofseals]

@zoso87 it seems like you're going for a Thunderquake battalion but I don't think you've paid for it? I'd for sure start by dropping the Terradon Riders and picking up the battalion.

[animusCompassionist]

So, I'm getting back into the hobby, haven't played Seraphon since WHFB in 2003 and I noticed, much to my disappointment that a LOT of the models haven't changed in 17 years! It has gotta be a common complaint, and that brings me to my question about conversions. My roommate plays Blades of Khorne and when she was picking them up she thought she liked the daemons but ended up liking the mortals more so she has a bunch of daemon models she doesn't plan on using and I think that with a little bit of converting the Flesh Hounds would make great new models for Salamanders/Razordons. Is this legal? My plans to alter them into Razordons feels like it would change them up enough, but I don't know yet how I am going to change them into Salamanders and don't know if I should be entertaining the idea if the models themselves wont be legal at local events.

[Kasper]

2 hours ago, animusCompassionist said:

So, I'm getting back into the hobby, haven't played Seraphon since WHFB in 2003 and I noticed, much to my disappointment that a LOT of the models haven't changed in 17 years! It has gotta be a common complaint, and that brings me to my question about conversions. My roommate plays Blades of Khorne and when she was picking them up she thought she liked the daemons but ended up liking the mortals more so she has a bunch of daemon models she doesn't plan on using and I think that with a little bit of converting the Flesh Hounds would make great new models for Salamanders/Razordons. Is this legal? My plans to alter them into Razordons feels like it would change them up enough, but I don't know yet how I am going to change them into Salamanders and don't know if I should be entertaining the idea if the models themselves wont be legal at local events.

You shouldnt have any issues using the Flesh Hounds as Salamanders/Razordons with a bit of conversion/kitbashing in an event. As long as it is somewhat obvious what model it is, it is generally fine. Many people have used Flesh Hounds and changed their backs + used a Cold One head from the Saurus Knight unit. Google is your friend. 

[animusCompassionist]

Quote

8 hours ago, Kasper said:

You shouldnt have any issues using the Flesh Hounds as Salamanders/Razordons with a bit of conversion/kitbashing in an event. As long as it is somewhat obvious what model it is, it is generally fine. Many people have used Flesh Hounds and changed their backs + used a Cold One head from the Saurus Knight unit. Google is your friend. 

 

Tyvm!

[Calebexnihilo]

AOS Battle Report - Seraphon vs Stormcast - 3 BASTILADONS vs 4 BALLISTAS!

Friendly game vs my son's Shootcast list on Shifting Objectives.

My List:

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Thunder Lizard
Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell: Celestial Apotheosis
Engine of the Gods (260)
- General
- Command Trait: Prime Warbeast
- Artefact: Fusil of Conflaguration
Skink Priest (70)
Skink Priest (70)
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
Stegadon (240)
- Weapon: Skystreak Bow
Stegadon (240)
- Weapon: Skystreak Bow
Bastiladon (220)
- Weapon: Solar Engine
Bastiladon (220)
- Weapon: Solar Engine
Bastiladon (220)
- Weapon: Solar Engine

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 97

[swarmofseals]

Another draft double toad list:

Spoiler

Starborne (Dracothion's Tail)

Slann Starmaster (General - Ancient Knowledge, Godbeast Pendant, Celestial Apotheosis, Celestial Equilibrium) - 260

Kroak - 320

Saurus Astrolith Bearer - 140

Skink Priest - 70

2x5 Saurus Guard - 200

2x3 Salamander Hunting Pack - 480

7x10 Skinks (blowpipe and shield) - 420

Balewind Vortex - 40

Bound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh - 70

Bound Quicksilver Swords - 40

This one is pretty similar to the last one, but it's more purely into the delaying game. I'm forgoing a bit of offense to pursue a strategy of slowing the opponent down with loads of Skinks and eventually wearing them out with spells and the salamanders. 

I imagine I'll basically never get the turn choice, but I'm fine with that (I think). If they give me the first turn I can put my Skinks exactly where I want them and delay/deny area while getting ahead on points. If I go second I'll probably have less of a head start on points and may need to clear some objectives with the salamanders, but I have a shot at a double turn which should be quite effective. It also means my first turn's spells are likely to be a lot more effective. 

Going for 7x10 Skinks instead of 3x20 and 1x10 may seem counter-intuitive, but I'm trying to minimize the number of casualties opponents cause with each activation. A unit of 'ardboys is going to kill 10 or 20 Skinks in one go just the same, so I'd rather them kill 10 even if it means fewer  wounds from the blowpipes. 

Deepkin could be a real slog though.