Jump to content

AoS 2 - Seraphon Discussion


Chris Tomlin

Recommended Posts

I wish the saurus guard battalions hadn't gone into being the open/narrative only super ones. 

I'm super happy with how they performed in the few games I could get before everything had to be shut down.

Just makes it difficult to make a low drop army when there's no way to get them into a drop by themselves anymore.

Maybe a White Dwarf battalion down the line will happen.

Still going to run them as i've been waiting for them to have this kind of staying power and buffed up even small units have packed enough punch for myself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've always liked the look of Saurus, but Skinks much less so and it's really never sat well that the "go to" competitive army was mostly Skinks.  I'm hoping this book has the buff Saurus need to do most/all Saurus because that's IMHO much more evocative of the army.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, wayniac said:

I've always liked the look of Saurus, but Skinks much less so and it's really never sat well that the "go to" competitive army was mostly Skinks.  I'm hoping this book has the buff Saurus need to do most/all Saurus because that's IMHO much more evocative of the army.

So far through my testing this is much more viable now.  You need a few skink heroes but 90% saurus is certainly viable.  I will add a caveat that I do think skinks will be more competitive overall, but by no means is saurus bad anymore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My Stegageddon list! I like it.... Stegs + Kroak + Krox! And only 12 models! Ha!

Youtube - List Building - Stegageddon

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Thunder Lizard

Leaders
Stegadon with Skink Chief (270)
- General
- Command Trait: Prime Warbeast
- Artefact: Sacred Stegadon Helm
Engine of the Gods (260)
- Artefact: Fusil of Conflaguration
Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell: Stellar Tempest

Battleline
Stegadon (240)
- Weapon: Skystreak Bow
Stegadon (240)
- Weapon: Skystreak Bow
Stegadon (240)
- Weapon: Skystreak Bow

Units
6 x Kroxigor (280)

Battalions
Thunderquake Temple-host (150)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 83
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So speaking of Stegageddon, I'm a huge fan of the big dinos as well.  However I have a question.  I know Thunderlizard makes Stegadons into battleline, but can someone point me to the page that removes the restriction on the number of Behemoths?  Everyone keeps saying its in there but I just can't find it.
 

Thanks! 🦖

Edited by Kamose
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Kamose said:

So speaking of Stegageddon, I'm a huge fan of the big dinos as well.  However I have a question.  I know Thunderlizard makes Stegadons into battleline, but can someone point me to the page that removes the restriction on the number of Behemoths?  Everyone keeps saying its in there but I just can't find it.
 

Thanks! 🦖

It is from the Designers' Commentary to the AoS Core Rules:

image.png.ba9561f883651ef9db94cf72aa0702d1.png

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello all,

I am thinking about dipping my toes in the spawning pool and have come up with this as a starter list, what do you guys think?

Coalesced, Thunder Lizards

Stegadon with Skink Chief, 270 general

Lord Kroak, 320

Terradon Chief 70

Skink Starpriest

40x skink darts + daggers

10x skink

10x skink

Bastiladon, Solar Engine

Bastiladon, Solar Engine

Terradon Riders 9x

Shadowstrike Temple Host 150

Link to comment
Share on other sites

FAQ/Errata is up, here's the highlights

  • No change to Bastiladon, so it is still unaffected by Rend while it has a 1+ save
  • Fangs of Sotek command ability changed so it can only be used if an enemy unit ends a charge move within 3"
  • No changes to Realmshaper Engine :(
  • They clarified what happens when you cast Balewind Vortex while inside a garrison
  • You can use Bound spells and regular Endless Spells in the same list, but you can't double up on them (ie: no double geminids)
  • No changes to Razordons, so they can still shoot after their own charges
  • Ripperdactyl Chief cant use his CA more than once
  • Stegadon and Engine of the Gods have erratas to clarify what is a mount
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Ripper FAQ is pretty disheartening- I'm not sure they are even a unit to consider now- the most you get with them is 5 attacks a piece with the jaws which is meh considering their movement is 12. If they had movement 16 that'd be a diffferent story- also no changes to the realmshaper WTF...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, the sad thing is Terradons have the better alpha strike with mortal wound bombing, better movement, and still get as many Jaw Attacks as the Rippers+CP on top of decent ranged damage.

All the Rippers actually have over Terradons is the one use blot toad, 5+ save, wounding on 3s, and exploding sixes. Which all sounds good but it's not enough of a difference to make them actually good in melee for their cost.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most of it make sense. Fangs change was expected. Still QUITE good!

A bit disappointed to see all mortals go straight thru Scaly Skin. Makes Thunder Lizard not nearly as tough.

Bastiladons made it thru unscathed! Yay!!! After playing a few games with them, i've changed my tune. The new Bastiladons are GREAT!

Ripperdactyls are buried and dead now.

Real disappointed to not see Realmshaper fixed.

Seraphon's REAL terrain piece is now Penumbral Engine!! Lol. Extra cmd pt, very useful. Reroll saves of 1? Guess where i'm parking my Bastiladons!!! Ha

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Got a new Seraphon vs Living City bat rep up! Its Pre-FAQ Coalesced, but it may not have made too much of a difference.

Stegadon Chief was my cruise missile alpha strike!! :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYBj0tBslTA

List:
Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Thunder Lizard

Leaders
Stegadon with Skink Chief (270)
- General
- Command Trait: Prime Warbeast
- Artefact: Sacred Stegadon Helm
Engine of the Gods (260)
- Artefact: Fusil of Conflaguration
Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell: Stellar Tempest
Skink Priest (70)
Skink Priest (70)

Battleline
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers

Units
12 x Razordon Hunting Pack (240)

Behemoths
Bastiladon (220)
- Weapon: Solar Engine
Bastiladon (220)
- Weapon: Solar Engine

Battalions
Thunderquake Temple-host (150)

Total: 2000 / 1500
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 105

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Calebexnihilo said:

Ripperdactyls are buried and dead now.

 

2 hours ago, madmac said:

Yeah, the sad thing is Terradons have the better alpha strike with mortal wound bombing, better movement, and still get as many Jaw Attacks as the Rippers+CP on top of decent ranged damage.

All the Rippers actually have over Terradons is the one use blot toad, 5+ save, wounding on 3s, and exploding sixes. Which all sounds good but it's not enough of a difference to make them actually good in melee for their cost.

 

 

2 hours ago, etlm1987 said:

The Ripper FAQ is pretty disheartening- I'm not sure they are even a unit to consider now- the most you get with them is 5 attacks a piece with the jaws which is meh considering their movement is 12. If they had movement 16 that'd be a diffferent story- also no changes to the realmshaper WTF...

 

2 hours ago, madmac said:

Overall, good FAQ, though I will have to pour one out for the RIPperdactyl Chief losing the only thing that made him worth considering, along with Rippers in general to a lesser extent.

 

I think you guys may be exaggerating a bit. Terradons also lack the spear attack. Terradons max out at 6 attacks in melee while Ripperdactyls max out at 9 (3 spear and 6 bite each). Once you factor in the exploding hits on 6's and rerolls for 6 of those attacks, you end up with a lot more hits, which translates to more mortal wounds with the Skink Starpriest buff.

I still think that Terradons are likely better due to the extra 4" of move, but it's a close call and I hardly think that Ripperdactyls are "buried and dead" or "useless". When fully buffed they are still one of the most efficient combat units in the game.

 

EDIT: I just wish we got a clear ruling about whether the Thunder Lizard CA works on the Skink Chief on Stegadon. Would also love to know if you can include a skink chief on either of the "regular" Stegadons that go into the Thunderquake battalions.

Edited by swarmofseals
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

 

 

 

 

I think you guys may be exaggerating a bit. Terradons also lack the spear attack. Terradons max out at 6 attacks in melee while Ripperdactyls max out at 9 (3 spear and 6 bite each). Once you factor in the exploding hits on 6's and rerolls for 6 of those attacks, you end up with a lot more hits, which translates to more mortal wounds with the Skink Starpriest buff.

I still think that Terradons are likely better due to the extra 4" of move, but it's a close call and I hardly think that Ripperdactyls are "buried and dead" or "useless". When fully buffed they are still one of the most efficient combat units in the game.

 

Where the heck are you getting 9 ripper  attacks? Rippers get 3 bite attacks base, +1 Coalesced, +1 CP, that's 5 bites and 2 spear attacks, vs the Terradons 5 bites, 1d6 bola shots and d3 mortal wounds.

Edited by madmac
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, madmac said:

 

Where the heck are you getting 9 ripper  attacks? Rippers get 3 bite attacks base, +1 Coalesced, +1 CP, that's 5 bites and 2 spear attacks, vs the Terradons 5 bites, 1d6 bola shots and d3 mortal wounds.

Terradons: 4 base, +1 Coalesced, +1 Stegadon Chief

Rippers 1 base spear + 1 Ripper Chief + 1 Stegadon Chief, 3 base bite +1 Ripper Chief + 1 Stegadon Chief +1 Coalesced 

If you are curious I did extensive comparisons of Rippers and Terradons a bit upthread. Might be a page or two back at this point. Suffice to say that they are in the same ballpark on offensive efficiency. Terradons are likely a little bit better at baseline but they are squishier and lose a lot in subsequent turns after they drop their rocks. They are faster though, which makes a huge difference. Rippers are slower but have more staying power (particularly if you take an extra min sized unit or two as objective grabbers, which will allow you to have multiple blot toads for your main ripper unit).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, swarmofseals said:

Terradons: 4 base, +1 Coalesced, +1 Stegadon Chief

Rippers 1 base spear + 1 Ripper Chief + 1 Stegadon Chief, 3 base bite +1 Ripper Chief + 1 Stegadon Chief +1 Coalesced 

If you are curious I did extensive comparisons of Rippers and Terradons a bit upthread. Might be a page or two back at this point. Suffice to say that they are in the same ballpark on offensive efficiency. Terradons are likely a little bit better at baseline but they are squishier and lose a lot in subsequent turns after they drop their rocks. They are faster though, which makes a huge difference. Rippers are slower but have more staying power (particularly if you take an extra min sized unit or two as objective grabbers, which will allow you to have multiple blot toads for your main ripper unit).

Thats assuming you can get them all in range with their 1" attacks, which is unlikely at 6 models and basically never going to happen once you go past 6 models in the unit. Terradons have the same problem with their 1" melee attacks, but they do a lot of their damage with shooting and rocks before they need to melee.

Terradons are faster and do more damage in a single turn, while Rippers have a little more survivability and would do more damage if they got multiple combat phases to attack. Unfortunately both units die horribly after they get one round of combat so there's little chance of getting a second, and that assumes you don't fight something that changes the combat order and fights before you do.

The only thing keeping Ripperdactyls viable was the idea that you could pump 5 command points into them and unleash hell in a single round of combat.

If you like Ripperdactyls you can make them a pretty good hammer unit... but in a competitive game there is no reason to use a large unit of Rippers over Terradons.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@PJetski I think getting 9-12 into range isn't nearly as hard with flying and potentially 3d6 to charge. It's much easier to surround an enemy unit that way. If you can fly across the enemy unit with 9-12 Terradons you should be able to accomplish a similar feat with rippers. 

There's also some serious goalpost moving going on. I was responding to claims that rippers are useless, "buried and dead," not worth considering etc. You yourself imply that Ripperdactyls are not viable. You support that claim by stating that Ripperdactyls are a pretty good hammer unit, but that Terradons are better competitively in large units.

If anything, the fact that they can be a "pretty good hammer unit" means that they are viable. Are the optimal? Probably not -- and I absolutely agree with that. I think most competitive lists are going to favor Terradons over rippers. But that hardly means that Rippers are "useless" and "not viable".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I should have been clearer - I was responding specifically to your comment about their comparative efficiency. If I recall correctly when you did your analysis you made the assumption that all Terradons and all Ripperdactyls were able to be in range to deal their full damage. In practice it's much easier to get the most out of Terradons than Ripperdactyls because fitting 12x 50mm bases into combat with 1" attacks is quite difficult. It's much easier to shoot from 6" away and drop rocks while moving and/or charging and/or piling into combat, so you almost always get closer to the full potential when using Terradons than Rippers.

I don't think Ripperdactyls are objectively bad, but Terradons seem to be strictly at fulfilling the same role.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...