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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Seraphon Discussion

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1 hour ago, Eldarain said:

Correct.

IMG-20200320-WA0002.jpg

Now I know! And knowing is half the battle!

 

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4 hours ago, Kamose said:

So just to clarify, are you saying that the lowest possible value on a die roll, regardless of modifiers, is 1?

Examples:

Roll 2 and Rend -1 =1

Roll 2 and Rend -2 = 1

Roll 2 and Rend -3 = 1

The modified dice roll is then compared to the bastiladon's save which is still 1+ and therefore it passes.

Am I getting that right? If so, I think I've been playing save rolls wrong this whoooooole time!

To be fair, it's never mattered before this.  This is the first time something has a natural 1+ save.  Nothing else in the game can boast that.  Sure you can get to an effective 1+ with modifiers, but remember, those modify the DICE roll.  

This is the first time this interaction has mattered.

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Hopefully we'll get the FAQ this week to clear some of this stuff up!

The Shadowstrike Terradon thing is interesting but also not cheap -- 820-1180 depending on the Skink unit sizes, and then you need a priest and starseer on top.  Definitely worth considering though.

I also think that Thunderquake is going to be a potentially strong option. A full kit with 3 salamanders and a skink chief on steg will run 1100-1140 depending on the mix of Stegadons and Bastiladons. 

You *can* do both, but I'm not sure that it's a good idea:

Skink Chief on Stegadon (270)

Skink Priest (70)

Skink Starpriest (120)

Terradon Chief (70)

10 Skinks (60)

20 Skinks (120)

3 Salamanders (240)

9 Terradons (270)

Bastiladon (220)

Stegadon (240)

Thunderquake Temple Host (150)

Shadowstrike Temple Host (150)

 

You have to give up the starseer and either 3 Terradons or 1 salamander to make it fit, but at least you get a nice 4 drop army that has a chance of getting the turn choice.

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I wish the saurus guard battalions hadn't gone into being the open/narrative only super ones. 

I'm super happy with how they performed in the few games I could get before everything had to be shut down.

Just makes it difficult to make a low drop army when there's no way to get them into a drop by themselves anymore.

Maybe a White Dwarf battalion down the line will happen.

Still going to run them as i've been waiting for them to have this kind of staying power and buffed up even small units have packed enough punch for myself.

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I've always liked the look of Saurus, but Skinks much less so and it's really never sat well that the "go to" competitive army was mostly Skinks.  I'm hoping this book has the buff Saurus need to do most/all Saurus because that's IMHO much more evocative of the army.

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3 hours ago, wayniac said:

I've always liked the look of Saurus, but Skinks much less so and it's really never sat well that the "go to" competitive army was mostly Skinks.  I'm hoping this book has the buff Saurus need to do most/all Saurus because that's IMHO much more evocative of the army.

So far through my testing this is much more viable now.  You need a few skink heroes but 90% saurus is certainly viable.  I will add a caveat that I do think skinks will be more competitive overall, but by no means is saurus bad anymore.

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My Stegageddon list! I like it.... Stegs + Kroak + Krox! And only 12 models! Ha!

Youtube - List Building - Stegageddon

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Thunder Lizard

Leaders
Stegadon with Skink Chief (270)
- General
- Command Trait: Prime Warbeast
- Artefact: Sacred Stegadon Helm
Engine of the Gods (260)
- Artefact: Fusil of Conflaguration
Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell: Stellar Tempest

Battleline
Stegadon (240)
- Weapon: Skystreak Bow
Stegadon (240)
- Weapon: Skystreak Bow
Stegadon (240)
- Weapon: Skystreak Bow

Units
6 x Kroxigor (280)

Battalions
Thunderquake Temple-host (150)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 83
 

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Posted (edited)

So speaking of Stegageddon, I'm a huge fan of the big dinos as well.  However I have a question.  I know Thunderlizard makes Stegadons into battleline, but can someone point me to the page that removes the restriction on the number of Behemoths?  Everyone keeps saying its in there but I just can't find it.
 

Thanks! 🦖

Edited by Kamose

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1 hour ago, Kamose said:

So speaking of Stegageddon, I'm a huge fan of the big dinos as well.  However I have a question.  I know Thunderlizard makes Stegadons into battleline, but can someone point me to the page that removes the restriction on the number of Behemoths?  Everyone keeps saying its in there but I just can't find it.
 

Thanks! 🦖

It is from the Designers' Commentary to the AoS Core Rules:

image.png.ba9561f883651ef9db94cf72aa0702d1.png

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Oooooooohhhh!  That explains why I couldn't find it!  Thanks!

🦕

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Hello all,

I am thinking about dipping my toes in the spawning pool and have come up with this as a starter list, what do you guys think?

Coalesced, Thunder Lizards

Stegadon with Skink Chief, 270 general

Lord Kroak, 320

Terradon Chief 70

Skink Starpriest

40x skink darts + daggers

10x skink

10x skink

Bastiladon, Solar Engine

Bastiladon, Solar Engine

Terradon Riders 9x

Shadowstrike Temple Host 150

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Its a Civil War!
We both wanted to dust off our Seraphon , so what better way to see how the new book plays.
 
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FAQ/Errata is up, here's the highlights

  • No change to Bastiladon, so it is still unaffected by Rend while it has a 1+ save
  • Fangs of Sotek command ability changed so it can only be used if an enemy unit ends a charge move within 3"
  • No changes to Realmshaper Engine :(
  • They clarified what happens when you cast Balewind Vortex while inside a garrison
  • You can use Bound spells and regular Endless Spells in the same list, but you can't double up on them (ie: no double geminids)
  • No changes to Razordons, so they can still shoot after their own charges
  • Ripperdactyl Chief cant use his CA more than once
  • Stegadon and Engine of the Gods have erratas to clarify what is a mount
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Overall, good FAQ, though I will have to pour one out for the RIPperdactyl Chief losing the only thing that made him worth considering, along with Rippers in general to a lesser extent.

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The Ripper FAQ is pretty disheartening- I'm not sure they are even a unit to consider now- the most you get with them is 5 attacks a piece with the jaws which is meh considering their movement is 12. If they had movement 16 that'd be a diffferent story- also no changes to the realmshaper WTF...

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Yeah, the sad thing is Terradons have the better alpha strike with mortal wound bombing, better movement, and still get as many Jaw Attacks as the Rippers+CP on top of decent ranged damage.

All the Rippers actually have over Terradons is the one use blot toad, 5+ save, wounding on 3s, and exploding sixes. Which all sounds good but it's not enough of a difference to make them actually good in melee for their cost.

 

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Most of it make sense. Fangs change was expected. Still QUITE good!

A bit disappointed to see all mortals go straight thru Scaly Skin. Makes Thunder Lizard not nearly as tough.

Bastiladons made it thru unscathed! Yay!!! After playing a few games with them, i've changed my tune. The new Bastiladons are GREAT!

Ripperdactyls are buried and dead now.

Real disappointed to not see Realmshaper fixed.

Seraphon's REAL terrain piece is now Penumbral Engine!! Lol. Extra cmd pt, very useful. Reroll saves of 1? Guess where i'm parking my Bastiladons!!! Ha

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But also glad they didn't touch salamanders, Kroak, or the starpriest! All the really good stuff is still in tact. 

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Got a new Seraphon vs Living City bat rep up! Its Pre-FAQ Coalesced, but it may not have made too much of a difference.

Stegadon Chief was my cruise missile alpha strike!! :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYBj0tBslTA

List:
Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Thunder Lizard

Leaders
Stegadon with Skink Chief (270)
- General
- Command Trait: Prime Warbeast
- Artefact: Sacred Stegadon Helm
Engine of the Gods (260)
- Artefact: Fusil of Conflaguration
Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell: Stellar Tempest
Skink Priest (70)
Skink Priest (70)

Battleline
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers

Units
12 x Razordon Hunting Pack (240)

Behemoths
Bastiladon (220)
- Weapon: Solar Engine
Bastiladon (220)
- Weapon: Solar Engine

Battalions
Thunderquake Temple-host (150)

Total: 2000 / 1500
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 105

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2 hours ago, Calebexnihilo said:

Ripperdactyls are buried and dead now.

 

2 hours ago, madmac said:

Yeah, the sad thing is Terradons have the better alpha strike with mortal wound bombing, better movement, and still get as many Jaw Attacks as the Rippers+CP on top of decent ranged damage.

All the Rippers actually have over Terradons is the one use blot toad, 5+ save, wounding on 3s, and exploding sixes. Which all sounds good but it's not enough of a difference to make them actually good in melee for their cost.

 

 

2 hours ago, etlm1987 said:

The Ripper FAQ is pretty disheartening- I'm not sure they are even a unit to consider now- the most you get with them is 5 attacks a piece with the jaws which is meh considering their movement is 12. If they had movement 16 that'd be a diffferent story- also no changes to the realmshaper WTF...

 

2 hours ago, madmac said:

Overall, good FAQ, though I will have to pour one out for the RIPperdactyl Chief losing the only thing that made him worth considering, along with Rippers in general to a lesser extent.

 

I think you guys may be exaggerating a bit. Terradons also lack the spear attack. Terradons max out at 6 attacks in melee while Ripperdactyls max out at 9 (3 spear and 6 bite each). Once you factor in the exploding hits on 6's and rerolls for 6 of those attacks, you end up with a lot more hits, which translates to more mortal wounds with the Skink Starpriest buff.

I still think that Terradons are likely better due to the extra 4" of move, but it's a close call and I hardly think that Ripperdactyls are "buried and dead" or "useless". When fully buffed they are still one of the most efficient combat units in the game.

 

EDIT: I just wish we got a clear ruling about whether the Thunder Lizard CA works on the Skink Chief on Stegadon. Would also love to know if you can include a skink chief on either of the "regular" Stegadons that go into the Thunderquake battalions.

Edited by swarmofseals

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19 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

 

 

 

 

I think you guys may be exaggerating a bit. Terradons also lack the spear attack. Terradons max out at 6 attacks in melee while Ripperdactyls max out at 9 (3 spear and 6 bite each). Once you factor in the exploding hits on 6's and rerolls for 6 of those attacks, you end up with a lot more hits, which translates to more mortal wounds with the Skink Starpriest buff.

I still think that Terradons are likely better due to the extra 4" of move, but it's a close call and I hardly think that Ripperdactyls are "buried and dead" or "useless". When fully buffed they are still one of the most efficient combat units in the game.

 

Where the heck are you getting 9 ripper  attacks? Rippers get 3 bite attacks base, +1 Coalesced, +1 CP, that's 5 bites and 2 spear attacks, vs the Terradons 5 bites, 1d6 bola shots and d3 mortal wounds.

Edited by madmac

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4 minutes ago, madmac said:

 

Where the heck are you getting 9 ripper  attacks? Rippers get 3 bite attacks base, +1 Coalesced, +1 CP, that's 5 bites and 2 spear attacks, vs the Terradons 5 bites, 1d6 bola shots and d3 mortal wounds.

Terradons: 4 base, +1 Coalesced, +1 Stegadon Chief

Rippers 1 base spear + 1 Ripper Chief + 1 Stegadon Chief, 3 base bite +1 Ripper Chief + 1 Stegadon Chief +1 Coalesced 

If you are curious I did extensive comparisons of Rippers and Terradons a bit upthread. Might be a page or two back at this point. Suffice to say that they are in the same ballpark on offensive efficiency. Terradons are likely a little bit better at baseline but they are squishier and lose a lot in subsequent turns after they drop their rocks. They are faster though, which makes a huge difference. Rippers are slower but have more staying power (particularly if you take an extra min sized unit or two as objective grabbers, which will allow you to have multiple blot toads for your main ripper unit).

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