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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Seraphon Discussion

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On 3/10/2020 at 1:37 PM, Kasper said:

What makes you think Bastiladons are trash now? They do almost the same damage as before with double rerolls, but it is much more reliable now. 

In Coalesced they can have 2 extra wounds and reduce damage taken by 1. Thats insane against factions that deal 2+ damage a hit like Ironjawz.

My first game with new Seraphon, took 2 Bastiladons in Thunderlizards. Fired both of them twice in my first turn.... killed a total of 2 Sequitors.

Maybe just bad rolls... maybe without rerolls for everything they are just as bad as they used to be outside of Thunderquake.

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2 hours ago, Calebexnihilo said:

My first game with new Seraphon, took 2 Bastiladons in Thunderlizards. Fired both of them twice in my first turn.... killed a total of 2 Sequitors.

Maybe just bad rolls... maybe without rerolls for everything they are just as bad as they used to be outside of Thunderquake.

I mean... Basing your opinion off 1 dice game alone is kind of worthless tbh. Did you trash the old Bastiladon when it rolled 2 attacks on 2D6 too? I did the math a couple of pages back.

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Does the Great drake asterism add 1 attack to the hero's mount as well? 🤔

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1 minute ago, Mikeymajq said:

Does the Great drake asterism add 1 attack to the hero's mount as well? 🤔

The ability states "add one to the attack characteristic of weapons used by THAT hero", so I think it excludes the mount, just like an artefact or warlord trait would. 

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21 minutes ago, Gecktron said:

The ability states "add one to the attack characteristic of weapons used by THAT hero", so I think it excludes the mount, just like an artefact or warlord trait would. 

Bummer, that would otherwise have maybe seen some use xD

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41 minutes ago, Gecktron said:

The ability states "add one to the attack characteristic of weapons used by THAT hero", so I think it excludes the mount, just like an artefact or warlord trait would. 

Artefacts and command traits are specifically exclude mount attacks. If not stated otherwise, abilities always affect both Mount and Hero riding it. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Nart said:

Artefacts and command traits are specifically exclude mount attacks. If not stated otherwise, abilities always affect both Mount and Hero riding it. 

I am aware. But this ability is written in such a way that I assume It is meant to exclude the mount. 

The whole abilty reads "In the combat phase, pick 1 friendly SERAPHON HERO. Until the end of that phase, you can add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of Melee weapons used by that HERO."

And if we now look at the description of a Hero (in this case a Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur), it reads like this: "A Saurus Scar-Veteran is a single model armed with one of the following weapon options: Celestite Warblade, Celestite Warspear or Celestite Greatblade; MOUNT: This models Carnosaur attacks with its clawed Forelimbs and Massiv Jaws"

The ability makes sure to mention only the hero and their weapons. While the description doesnt call the Jaws and Limps weapons

Ofcourse, GW may just have worded that in a weird way, and they mean every attack. Personaly, I would wait for the post-release FAQ. 

Edited by Gecktron

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It works on mount attacks. HERO is just a keyword like any other.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Kasper said:

I mean... Basing your opinion off 1 dice game alone is kind of worthless tbh. Did you trash the old Bastiladon when it rolled 2 attacks on 2D6 too? I did the math a couple of pages back.

Lol, no.... although sometimes I did want to! ;)

I'll still be playing them because I have 3... but I wish Thunderquake had let us keep some rerolls for them. Bastiladons in the current Thunderquake are a strange fit. They had their range increased, so don't really need the run and shoot. It seems Thunderquake was squarely aimed at Stegadons.

Edited by Calebexnihilo
Edited for bad math... lol

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Posted (edited)

Just played a game vs Living City. Border War. Stegageddon got the win.

List was:

  • Stegadon Chief - Helm and Nimble
  • EoTG
  • Slann
  • Stegadon
  • Stegadon
  • Stegadon
  • Scar Vet on Carno
  • Scar Vet on Carno

Lost both carnos and one battlline Stegadon. Wiped most of his army by the end.

Only got 1 summons from EoTG out of 5 tries (doubled up twice, only played thru turn 3)

 

We played Border Wars.

I sent the two Carnos to the left objective. Two Stegadons to the right. Chief and Steggy up the middle. Left the Slann and EoTG at home objective. Got lucky on first turn and rolled for 10 Warriors to help with bodies.

His first turn he hit the two carnos with basically his full punch. Dreadlord on Black Dragon, 6 palladors, and 6 snipers. Killed off both carnos. (i think i managed to kill 2 or 3 palladors)

The Steggy Chief was the MVP. 2+ save down to a 1+ vs a 5 or less model unit in combat. I basically fought it out over his home objective with two steggies. He missed a critical charge with the Dreadlord into my home objective and i was able to hit back later with the EoTG and kill it.

Just FYI, EoTG rolls thru 3 turns (used 2 cmd pts to double up):

  • Summoned 10 Warriors
  • Heal (no one in range was hurt)
  • Heal (no one in range was hurt)
  • Mortals - 1
  • Mortals - 2
  • Mortals - 2
Edited by Calebexnihilo
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Something interesting: It looks like Lord Kroak isnt the only undead Slaan. Lord Kroak is described as strongest and oldest of the "Relic Priests" but there are others like him. 

From the battletome page 23:

Quote

Despite their prodigious abilites and practical immortartality, the slaan are not invincible. Those, that do fall in battle are, if anything, treated with even more reverance by the seraphon than the living. Their remains are [...] mummified. These Relic Priests, as they are known, still radiate arcane energies. It is unknown how far a relic priest can still wilfully affect the corporeal world, yet some Seraphon armies bear their remains to war on occasions. An eerie light glows from the eyes of their golden funerary masks, spells of celestial destruction emanating from their desicated remains to annihilate their foes. 

 

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Pretty disappointed with the release of this tome tbh. I mean it is great for those who already got plently of models, but kinds awful for those that wanted to get into the faction with the new release.
 

Talked with my local as he had tried to order some more stuff with the new tome and new sc box. He said GW support had told him that they were massively behind on the production. Like around 40k boxes behind on the Stegadon model alone. Half the range is pretty much out of stock and has been for a while. 
 

It is really beyond me they are so unprepared for a new release. Stuff like getting a Slann shouldnt be almost impossible at this stage.

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Posted (edited)

Missed that Dread Saurian was updated randomly a few days before the battletome released...

On 3/13/2020 at 12:11 PM, swarmofseals said:

Hah, 35 wounds is pretty nuts! Unfortunately its combat efficiency is really low, 

jaws do 6 flat damage at -2 rend consistently for the first 12 wounds he takes. Carno jaws do 5 at -1 rend for the first 2 wounds they take.  I don't think that's bad at all considering how he is already a tank and all his other abilities.

Edited by Zanzou

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Posted (edited)

Aight want something fun?

skink oracle on troglodon on bound balewind vortex. Hear me out.

 

we’re thunderlizard right? We’re running the two bastiladon battalion. You have a lord kroak and an astrolith banner because youre a man of taste.

 

you look at this carnisaur kit and the last thing youre thinking of is putting a skink on there but you havent expanded your mind so far You maxed out so far it looped back and you deflated back to a puny pea brain. 
 

 

Bound balewind has no wounds limit.

ok dont touch your face dont get corona but thats so good you want to rub your cheeks.

 

what can we put on it? Trogolodon.

 

Skink starseer gives +1 save and 3 d6 charge.

we give him the item thats +4 move -1 hit and fly. 
 

now we have a 2+ save mystic shielded troglodon healing likely d3 per turn with an engine of the gods helping just shoved in the middle of their army thats -1 to hit.

but wait theres more

he’s a nuke.

we can use him to cast celestial desecrate your surroundings 3 times with a kroak whos +3 to cast no matter where he is on the board.

 

You also have more command-points than god.


then just flood the demons within 22” in your toxic masculinity and you win. Easy game

Edited by Bozly
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1 hour ago, Bozly said:

Aight want something fun?

skink oracle on troglodon on bound balewind vortex. Hear me out.

 

we’re thunderlizard right? We’re running the two bastiladon battalion. You have a lord kroak and an astrolith banner because youre a man of taste.

 

you look at this carnisaur kit and the last thing youre thinking of is putting a skink on there but you havent expanded your mind so far You maxed out so far it looped back and you deflated back to a puny pea brain. 
 

 

Bound balewind has no wounds limit.

ok dont touch your face dont get corona but thats so good you want to rub your cheeks.

 

what can we put on it? Trogolodon.

 

Skink starseer gives +1 save and 3 d6 charge.

we give him the item thats +4 move -1 hit and fly. 
 

now we have a 2+ save mystic shielded troglodon healing likely d3 per turn with an engine of the gods helping just shoved in the middle of their army thats -1 to hit.

but wait theres more

he’s a nuke.

we can use him to cast celestial desecrate your surroundings 3 times with a kroak whos +3 to cast no matter where he is on the board.

 

You also have more command-points than god.


then just flood the demons within 22” in your toxic masculinity and you win. Easy game

A model riding on the Balewind Vortex can't move, so the 3d6 charge, +4 move, and Fly that you're giving him won't help much and the Troglodon's melee combat strength isn't going to come into play unless something charges it.  You can still use Lords of Space and Time to sit it in the midst of your enemies, but not as great as you were hoping and he'd probably be pretty easy to surround and kill.

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On 3/15/2020 at 3:56 PM, Gecktron said:

Something interesting: It looks like Lord Kroak isnt the only undead Slaan. Lord Kroak is described as strongest and oldest of the "Relic Priests" but there are others like him. 

From the battletome page 23:

 

This was a thing in the old WFB lore too.  Page 10 of the Lizardmen Army Book has a blurb indicating Lord Kroak was but the first such slann-mummy.  Also, if you play Total War: Warhammer II (MINOR SPOILER AHEAD) and consider that at all canon, a relic priest showed up  in that game too.

My copy of the new book won't arrive for a few days, but I love seeing little notes like yours indicating that GW brought back a lot of tidbits of old lore.  It makes me feel like my Seraphon dudes are even more connected to the Lizardmen dudes they used to be :)

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  The new Seraphon tome has been a great read.  Working on a 2000pts ITC list for competitive play; Coalesced, Koatl’s Claw.  The type of list I’m working on has got a lot of press, so trying to narrow it down, & looking for assistance.  Lord Kroak, General, garrisons in the Realmshaper Engine, upon his Bound: Balewind Vortex.  Kroak’s five Saurus Guard hide behind the temple, as protection.  Saurus Astrolith Bearer stays near the garrisoned Kroak to extend his spell range.  The Skink Priest acts as an extension of Kroak, & does some minor buffing; could garrison him in the Realmscape engine to help make Kroak more portable.  The minimal Skinks units are for holding objectives, & screening.  Salamander Hunting Packs are included separately for target saturation, with the flip side of decreasing beneficial buffs and wound allocation.  
  Would Starhost, Dracothion’ Tail, be more beneficial?  I feel it would be a good choice, but the list seems to lack enough Wizards to profit.  The list also suffers from lack of objective holders, is it deadly enough without?  Still waiting for the FAQ updates for the Realmshaper Engine, so hoping it will be corrected. How does Lord Kroak work, with Secret Asterisms: the Great Drake, in regards to additional attacks?

2000pt Seraphon; Coalesced, Koatl’s Claw

1x Lord Kroak, General

1x Saurus Astrolith Bearer, Eviscerating Blade

1x Skink Priest

5x Saurus Guard

(2) 10x Skinks, Boltspitter, Dagger, Star-buckler

(15) Salamander Hunting Pack

Bound Endless Spell: Balewind Vortex

Scenery: Realmshaper Engine

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Ok so i got some lists together that i think may have some competitive gas. I don’t typically play seraphon but i bought into the army because i want two bastilladons on the table. I’m working based on 3 threats

 

my first list

thunderlizards

Kroak general great rememberance

astrolith bearer

- fusil of conflageration

engine of the gods

- incandescent rectrixes

knight incantor

3x10 skinks

2x bastilladon

3x salamanders or razordons to taste

Thunderquak starhost

everblaze

balewind

an option in this list is dropping a hunting pack for a skink priest. Which i might actually just do because the +1 to hit is so important on the bastilidons.

this is a great bunker busted. If you play against a lot of dok and hallowheart this is nice you can just clear their heroes with comets call and the everblaze and your bastilidons clean up.

we lack models which is why i think this has to go starborne so we can summon.

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Second list i’m a little more interested in it can do some fun stuff. So coalesced and starborne versions of this list are both good but have drawbacks.

We run shadowstrike and thunderquake

fangs of sotek or thunder lizard

Skink priest

engine of the gods
sacred steggadon helm or incandescent

slann starmaster General

potentially aetherquartz brooch or itxi grubs

ripperdactly chief
Chamber weapon

skinks x3

Bastilidon x2

full hunting pack. Probably salamanders unless we need more chaff razordons.

6 ripper dactlys

i really like how this plays in both chambers

engine of the gods becomes pretty scary in a coalesced army when we can make him a 2+ save fairly easy with quite a few extra attacks and damage he can bring the pain on the charge making him a new threat where he wouldnt be in a starborn list.

 

only thing i’d do if i had to go coalesced is drop one hunter for me skinks as we’re dreadfully low on troops in both my lists. Running starborn is quite good because we can just summon skinks all day. 
 

some people say you dont need a brooch in this army but i think it gains a lot of value. We’re rolling that dice six times a turn almost it can net us two more command points. So i’m not above taking a brooch in this army.


razordons make excellent chaff but i want to position them as a threat in this army. So teleporting salamanders 9 away so they can shoot 12 -2 d3 shots into your backline is devastating. But so is the melee bonuses for coalesced.

 

 

Edited by Bozly

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I still haven't been able to buy the new book, but how do you see a list focused on terradons and rippers?

its viable?

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3 hours ago, zamerion said:

I still haven't been able to buy the new book, but how do you see a list focused on terradons and rippers?

its viable?

Anythings viable right now just keep in mind theyd kinda play like a endrinrigger list. Theyre assassins they’ll kill anything low armored. And you can get them there pretty easily. Just know after they kill it theyre likely dead. A stiff breeze will kill em. 
 

so just make sure if you have a pack of 12 and thats one threat you bring 2 other threats which can be a second pack of 12 and just rip apart lightly armored targets. This could easily do a ton of damage to anything with just a 4+ ironjawz stormcast bonesplitterz you would shred them. Mix in a few monsters of your choice and you got a solid list

 

 

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On 3/15/2020 at 8:56 PM, Gecktron said:

Something interesting: It looks like Lord Kroak isnt the only undead Slaan. Lord Kroak is described as strongest and oldest of the "Relic Priests" but there are others like him. 

From the battletome page 23:

 

In the old world wasn’t there a palanquin type model with some slann remnants? Sounds a bit like this. 

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23 hours ago, Bozly said:

Ok so i got some lists together that i think may have some competitive gas. I don’t typically play seraphon but i bought into the army because i want two bastilladons on the table. I’m working based on 3 threats

 

my first list

thunderlizards

Kroak general great rememberance

astrolith bearer

- fusil of conflageration

engine of the gods

- incandescent rectrixes

knight incantor

3x10 skinks

2x bastilladon

3x salamanders or razordons to taste

Thunderquak starhost

everblaze

balewind

an option in this list is dropping a hunting pack for a skink priest. Which i might actually just do because the +1 to hit is so important on the bastilidons.

this is a great bunker busted. If you play against a lot of dok and hallowheart this is nice you can just clear their heroes with comets call and the everblaze and your bastilidons clean up.

we lack models which is why i think this has to go starborne so we can summon.

 

 

 

I think the Everblaze Comet is really underrated, especially considering Slann/Kroak got boardwide dispell, so you can dispell it no matter how far away you dumped it the previous turn and keep getting maximum benefit from the aoe. That and Comet’s Call from Slann/Kroak is alot of almost boardwide damage to important key units/support heroes,  especially if they are within 10” of each other.

Picking off stuff like Warchanters/Weirdnob from Orruk Warclans is massive. Plently of other armies rely on buffs and synergies.

 

I think the better list would be Starborne - Fangs of Sotek and focus on more bodies, some bound Endless spells like Geminids + Purple Shy, maybe even a unit of 20 Camo Skinks to deepstrike wounded characters or other stuff like OBR catapults.

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How do you guys feel about the dread saurian? 510 points seems a bit much to me. He's tanky, and he does a bit of damage. But 510? 
And 35 wounds is great, but only a 4+ means it's actually possible to take him down.

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So a long time ago I was lucky enough to purchase 18 of the Woogity Kroxigor. Some of you know what I'm talking about. 

With that as the basis of your army, how would you build it? I was assuming going Coalesced for the extra jaw/mortals and defenses and 3x10 skinks for battle line but not sure how to build the hero/support section.

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