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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Seraphon Discussion

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12 hours ago, umpac said:

How would this work with tournaments with pre-placed terrain? I guess tournaments would have to use house rules for it? Or just straight up ban it i guess, if you're playing RAW.

Same as OBR. All events i've attended so far has been TO'd so the Nexus is placed "after" the pre-placed terrain. It's super tricky to get it in a good position most of the time. 

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Is there any way to boost wound rolls for our non-Saurus units?

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Is there any way to boost wound rolls for our non-Saurus units?

I believe Seraphon can ally with both Sylvaneth and Stormcast. I think Sylvaneth is largely useless outside of maybe creating a forest to ping with the terrain piece. All their buffs are "Sylvaneth".

I'm not super familiar with Stormcast warscrolls, but some of their heroes got auras/buffs that just say "friendly units" and not keyworded to Stormcast specifically. Maybe theres some in there.  

For Seraphon specific Im fairly certain there is nothing for non-Saurus from listening to a couple of battletome reviews/looking at warscrolls.

Edited by Kasper

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@swarmofseals 

What’s the shake out math wise on temple guard? If you don’t mind and get a chance. 
 

I love those models and am hoping they are able to be used competitively. 

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7 minutes ago, OIF4IDVET said:

@swarmofseals 

What’s the shake out math wise on temple guard? If you don’t mind and get a chance. 
 

I love those models and am hoping they are able to be used competitively. 

Saurus Guard fully buffed (which requires all of the Saurus buffs plus the Eternity Warden buff) have a max WDR of .2911. That's still really good, but pales in comparison to regular Saurus and Saurus Knights. 

I think Guard will possibly see competitive play as Slann caddies but I doubt you will see them as the main battle unit. That said, they are perfectly viable -- just not optimal.

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Will.we be seeing a new dread warscroll/points or was it dropped? 😢

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21 hours ago, 123lac said:

So can you make a competitive Seraphon army using the new start collecting skinks box?

 

Not really. Terradons can be good in the right builds... But VERY fragile. Starpriest is a must have in just about every list. Bastiladons are trash now. Skinks are just ok. Nothing fancy... But cheap battleline.

It's curious they included bastiladon in the box. I can't think of any list that would use it.

They used to be awesome in Thunderquake where you could get rerolls for everything. But Thunderquake now just give you run and shoot. Lol.

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21 hours ago, 123lac said:

So can you make a competitive Seraphon army using the new start collecting skinks box?

 

Not really. Terradons can be good in the right builds... But VERY fragile. Starpriest is a must have in just about every list. Bastiladons are trash now. Skinks are just ok. Nothing fancy... But cheap battleline.

It's curious they included bastiladon in the box. I can't think of any list that would use it.

They used to be awesome in Thunderquake where you could get rerolls for everything. But Thunderquake now just give you run and shoot. Lol.

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Thunderquake gives you +1 attack in melee, which is insane on Stegadons, Kroxigors, and Salamanders. While not spectacular on a Bastiladon, you'll see them included just to fill out the battalion instead of bringing a 2nd Stegadon.

Bastiladons damage isn't very impressive but sometimes you just need a big meaty wall unit - that 1+ save is no joke, especially in Thunder Lizard for +2 wounds and scaly skin. We should all remember how ridiculous the 2+reroll Bastiladon was, and if you give him Mystic Shield (or spend a command point) he's basically at that point again against rend0 and rend-1 units. If you're fighting Rend-2 units you can give him the Starstone Staff or Control Fate for another +1 save and stay at 2+rr. We can also take an Astrolith Bearer to have a minimal defense against mortal wounds.

Spending one command point to double tap isn't bad at all, especially given how many CP most lists will passively generate every turn between Slann, Kroak, Starseer, and a Starpriests.

Finally, keep in mind the cost was reduced to the point where it is one of our cheapest monsters.

I think you'll see a Bastiladon in almost every Thunder Lizard list and it'll pop up in lists that need a wall in front of their fragile hunting packs.

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If those are 25mm bases (or even 32mm) then they are too small. And they look like rats, we know how much Seraphon like those.

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6 hours ago, Calebexnihilo said:

 

It's curious they included bastiladon in the box. I can't think of any list that would use it.

 

They have good math if you double tap with them in a Thunder lizards.

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1 hour ago, umpac said:

They have good math if you double tap with them in a Thunder lizards.

And you could get super lucky and double its attacks for 36 shots

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How Will seraphon summoning work with their new battletome? Havent been able to find any information on it. 

And how powerful do people recon it Will be? 

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4 minutes ago, Nuradin said:

How Will seraphon summoning work with their new battletome? Havent been able to find any information on it. 

And how powerful do people recon it Will be? 

It's not being talked about because it's largely a non-factor.

IIRC, if you play Starbound, you get d3 cp for an Astrolith, d3 for a Slaan or Oracle, ect and d3 for the first spell sacrificed each turn by the aforementioned. You also only get to roll one for EoTG per turn no matter how many you own, and they can only summon 10 saurus warriors on a single result.

Basically optimized summoning is 3d3 CP per turn, which is average is just barely enough to summon 10 skinks. It's a minor perk if you're playing Starborn and nothing more.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, madmac said:

It's not being talked about because it's largely a non-factor.

IIRC, if you play Starbound, you get d3 cp for an Astrolith, d3 for a Slaan or Oracle, ect and d3 for the first spell sacrificed each turn by the aforementioned. You also only get to roll one for EoTG per turn no matter how many you own, and they can only summon 10 saurus warriors on a single result.

Basically optimized summoning is 3d3 CP per turn, which is average is just barely enough to summon 10 skinks. It's a minor perk if you're playing Starborn and nothing more.

I believe that each Slann or Oracle can sacrifice a spell for d3 summoning points, so you can keep bringing more Troglodons and gain more summoning points each round.

It's not very cost effective since you pay 260p for each one, but in a 2000pt game you could potentially bring 6 Slann/Troglodon and an Astrolith Bearer and gain 8d3 summoning points per turn.

Edited by PJetski

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So with the bastiladon in the skink SC box, is it better to buy that and sell the rest instead of only buying the bastiladon kit? I'm not sure if I want to fully collect Lizardmen again, but I really like the bastiladon model and would love to have one, even if only for narrative/open ally. I'm just not sure how wanted the terradons and skinks will be.

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15 hours ago, Calebexnihilo said:

Not really. Terradons can be good in the right builds... But VERY fragile. Starpriest is a must have in just about every list. Bastiladons are trash now. Skinks are just ok. Nothing fancy... But cheap battleline.

It's curious they included bastiladon in the box. I can't think of any list that would use it.

They used to be awesome in Thunderquake where you could get rerolls for everything. But Thunderquake now just give you run and shoot. Lol.

What makes you think Bastiladons are trash now? They do almost the same damage as before with double rerolls, but it is much more reliable now. 

In Coalesced they can have 2 extra wounds and reduce damage taken by 1. Thats insane against factions that deal 2+ damage a hit like Ironjawz.

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1 hour ago, CommissarRotke said:

So with the bastiladon in the skink SC box, is it better to buy that and sell the rest instead of only buying the bastiladon kit? I'm not sure if I want to fully collect Lizardmen again, but I really like the bastiladon model and would love to have one, even if only for narrative/open ally. I'm just not sure how wanted the terradons and skinks will be.

It completely depends on how much you value your time, and how you plan to sell the models. 

You can expect that the ebay value of all these models will go down due to other people parting out boxes. For example, today 3x terradon riders are $51 USD on ebay, but I expect that will go down to like $30 over time.  Ebay/Paypal take ~13%, shipping costs ~$4 if you're thrifty and ship in an envelope.  
The hero will be sold off by anyone that gets more than 1 box, or anyone that already had that hero when they bought the box.  
12 skinks is not worth your time. You're talking $14.88 retail worth of skinks, lower the price to sell on ebay, fees, shipping. You'll make like $5 

If you are making your purchase next week and don't mind the work, yes buy the box and try and dump the rest quickly (perhaps even all together) because all of this stuff is low/out of stock individually, including the Bastilladon you want.

In a month or two, I don't think it will be worth it. 
 

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Posted (edited)

@sorokyl yeah it seems like selling everything at half price would only save me 20$ on the Bastiladon, and that's IF the buyers pay shipping included. I may just check if my shop has a box then, or even see if they get parted out from the boxes since you don't want many behemoths, thanks

edit: there's ebay resellers advertising 85USD for the new SC boxes so.. yea I'll probably pick up a parted out one myself instead to save time.

Edited by CommissarRotke

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so Saurus, we looking at clubs or spears as the better option, or is it going to be a unit size thing? That damn base size...

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43 minutes ago, whiskeytango said:

so Saurus, we looking at clubs or spears as the better option, or is it going to be a unit size thing? That damn base size...

Clubs for units of 10

Spears for >20 definitely

I dont see a reason to run Saurus in units other than min or max

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Alright, finished the Temples and Batallions as well. Grouped them via sub factions to be as easily understood as possible :D

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7 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Clubs for units of 10

Spears for >20 definitely

I dont see a reason to run Saurus in units other than min or max

this is my gut take as well, but just to play devil's advocate:

folks (perhaps even you?) upthread talked about honeycombing the bases to get most of two rows with 1" range into combat. If this is in fact doable, then spears shouldn't actually help very much as 2" still won't be able to get a third row into range. 

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3 hours ago, PJetski said:

Clubs for units of 10

Spears for >20 definitely

I dont see a reason to run Saurus in units other than min or max

Cool, cool. 

 

Same general question, but for Skinks. Their armament seems so similar, minus clubs and shields of course. 

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