AoS 2 - Seraphon Discussion

[Future]

@TheadTheOgorSlayer you should watch some of the honest wargamer footage from last weekend, they followed a seraphon player. Skinks are in fact our best objective holders by a large margin.

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

5 minutes ago, Future said:

@TheadTheOgorSlayer you should watch some of the honest wargamer footage from last weekend, they followed a seraphon player. Skinks are in fact our best objective holders by a large margin.

Should add a bit more context to that, a block of 20 tougher dudes that can all go into one teleport is better then ten dudes with a worse save. Of course the skinks are better but not when it comes to summoning a unit (unless your slann or bearer is by the objective, then by all means summon 30 skinks onto it and taunt the enemy with retreating ranged ignore rend infantry 😂  the block of twenty out of all of our summoning options is the best when a teleport is needed to take the objective 

[Wilhelm Stürmer]

@TheadTheOgorSlayer I have never tried the tactic you suggest, but I'm interested to try. Looks like I'll be cutting up my Javelin Skinks.

[Future]

But when you summon 30 skinks you are summoning 3x10 skinks. Limiting the damage you can take to blocks of 10. This is strictly better than a 20 block of warriors. Its more wounds per summoning point and better unit sizes for mitigating damage and staying on the point.

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

1 hour ago, Future said:

But when you summon 30 skinks you are summoning 3x10 skinks. Limiting the damage you can take to blocks of 10. This is strictly better than a 20 block of warriors. Its more wounds per summoning point and better unit sizes for mitigating damage and staying on the point.

You are correct but if the objective is far away and you only have one teleport... then do the math. My point was when you can only put ten skinks on the objective that 20 saurus are better. I understand how skinks retreat and tactics around that work. And in some scenarios the restreat might take you off the objective (it’s rare) or they out maneuver your blocks and are able to charge or strike multiple (any ranged army or Sylvaneth) then retreating isn’t helpful in those rare scenarios. 20 saurus teleported onto an enemies back field objective is better then summoning 30 skinks and only teleporting 10, maybe 20 if you have the right trait. The slann is sometimes too important to risk on some objectives. I’m only offering an alternative in those rare circumstances. I think you are under the impression that I believe 20 saurus survive more then 30 skinks and that’s just not the case 

also in the case of wounds in some rare cases a block of twenty in cover rerolling saves (via a priest) easily outlasts skinks, especially when you take into account they can actually fight back. Skinks for pure bodies is awesome, but ignoring the 1 in 10 scenarios where those saurus out perform is foolhardy at best, use both techniques when required, you can spend points freely anyways ☺️

Edited February 27, 2019 by TheadTheOgorSlayer

[Tea Rex]

So I managed to find a Starclaw Strikehost at a discount so I ordered it with an additional box of Skinks. I'm looking at running the below list...

LEADER

Skink Starpriest (General)

Command Trait: Master of Star Rituals

Artefact: Incandescent Retrices

BATTLELINE

Skinks (#10)

Equipment: Boltspitter & Star-buckler

Skinks (#10)

Equipment: Boltspitter & Star-buckler

Skinks (#10)

Equipment: Boltspitter & Star-buckler

BEHEMOTH

Bastiladon - Solar Engine

OTHER

Ripperdactyl Riders (#6)

WARSCROLL BATTALION

Shadowstrike Starhost

Total Points 1000/1000 - Valid Matched Play Army

[Wilhelm Stürmer]

@Tea Rex Do you happen to know what kind of army you will facing and it's composition? Will you be using a Battleplan? It would inform my input a bit better.

 

In general, you should plan for Shadowstrike Rippers to die after they attack. At least, that's been my experience. They will do their work, but likely, there will be retaliation from another unit and they die pretty easily. If that occurs, keep your Bastildon buffed and hope your Skinks stay alive and maintain control of objectives. Depending on the unit you kill, this may not be an issue. Plan well! 😊

 

Edit: One suggestion, consider Gryph-Feather Charm from Ghur for your Starpriest.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Wilhelm Stürmer

[Future]

4 hours ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

 

Totally agreed

[erasercrumbs]

Do you think spending $30+ on the current (old) Battletome would be worth it? 

[Wilhelm Stürmer]

@erasercrumbs I wouldn't. I found the tome online and downloaded it. When Seraphon is refreshed and a new tome becomes available, I'll buy it then.

Did I say download?! I didn't download it, I memorized it. 😉

Edited February 28, 2019 by Wilhelm Stürmer

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

9 minutes ago, Wilhelm Stürmer said:

@erasercrumbs I wouldn't. I found the tome online and downloaded it. When Seraphon is refreshed and a new tome becomes available, I'll buy it then.

FBI OPEN UP *CRASH*

Edited February 28, 2019 by TheadTheOgorSlayer

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

12 minutes ago, Wilhelm Stürmer said:

@erasercrumbs I wouldn't. I found the tome online and downloaded it. When Seraphon is refreshed and a new tome becomes available, I'll buy it then.

This one is the better meme

Edited February 28, 2019 by TheadTheOgorSlayer

[Platypus]

4 hours ago, erasercrumbs said:

Do you think spending $30+ on the current (old) Battletome would be worth it? 

No. The warscrolls are out-of-date and the updated versions can be found in the app, Allegiance abilities and artefacts can be found in the GHB18. The only thing of relevance in the BT are the battalion warscrolls and their info can be found easily (even without going for the illegal route).

[Tea Rex]

6 hours ago, Wilhelm Stürmer said:

@Tea Rex Do you happen to know what kind of army you will facing and it's composition? Will you be using a Battleplan? It would inform my input a bit better.

 

In general, you should plan for Shadowstrike Rippers to die after they attack. At least, that's been my experience. They will do their work, but likely, there will be retaliation from another unit and they die pretty easily. If that occurs, keep your Bastildon buffed and hope your Skinks stay alive and maintain control of objectives. Depending on the unit you kill, this may not be an issue. Plan well! 😊

 

Edit: One suggestion, consider Gryph-Feather Charm from Ghur for your Starpriest.

Nope this is my first AOS army, I used to play WFB but I played Dark Elves back then.

Just wanted to have a cohesive 1000pt list to work towards when building my models, I've gone for Boltspitters because I envisage combing all the Skinks into one unit when I move up to 2000pts.

What you've detailed is what I was kind of expecting - I don't suspect my opponent will have multiple game changing units on the board at 1000pts so I'll use my Rippers to deal with the biggest threat and soften the target up with the rest of the army at range.

I would like a Gryph-Feather Charm but I don't have Malign Sorcery expansion - so figured next best thing was Incandescent Retrices. I'm basically running off GHB18, Azyr App & Downloadable rules for now.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Tea Rex
Spelling

[Wilhelm Stürmer]

@Tea Rex What do you mean you don't have the Malign Sorcery expansion? I've always operated on the knowledge that you simply state your army come from the realm you want to use Artefacts from and you are set to use them.

[Tea Rex]

1 hour ago, Wilhelm Stürmer said:

@Tea Rex What do you mean you don't have the Malign Sorcery expansion? I've always operated on the knowledge that you simply state your army come from the realm you want to use Artefacts from and you are set to use them.

Well technically I don't have the book, so if my opponent was so inclined as to ask what the rules were or wanted to confirm I couldn't provide it? So I thought maybe best to stick to something I can produce?

[Wilhelm Stürmer]

5 minutes ago, Tea Rex said:

Well technically I don't have the book, so if my opponent was so inclined as to ask what the rules were or wanted to confirm I couldn't provide it? So I thought maybe best to stick to something I can produce?

Well, you can find the info for Artefacts (and nearly all the other rules for AoS) on the internet. 1D4chan is a good resource. But, if you're playing someone who's a stickler for being able to produce the rules in hand, at the moment, then I suppose you might have a dilemma. I've never run into this situation locally. 

As far as actually using the Artefact, however, it is as simple as declaring your army is from the realm and then using those Realm Artefacts.

[Televiper11]

Hi Everyone,

I have a couple compare/contrast questions:

• Slann Starmaster vs Lord Kroak
• Stegadon vs Engine Of Gods
• Skinks vs. Chameleon Skinks

Kroak's spell casting  abilities are insane. I already have a Slann but could I field both? Do people just prefer the Slann cuz it is cheaper?

I have a Stegadon already but could easily convert it to the EotG. Given that the points cost are the same, not sure which is preferable or if I should devise it so that I can swap the model back-and-forth between the two depending on the type of game I'm playing.

I do have 20 Skinks but was wondering if the Chameleons are  worth replacing them with in a terrain heavy game due to their Perfect Mimicry. I am also intrigued by their Ambush ability.

 

[Wilhelm Stürmer]

I'm not very familiar with Kroak, but I know before GHB2.0 he was a monster. He's spells are still good and if you wanted to try a list with him, you wouldn't use him for summoning point banking. That's what the Slann is for. Since the Seraphon meta is summoning, it is logical to bring a model that's more than half the cost for that role.

If you can magnetize a model to give it different roles, do it. Always, imo. I've done it with my Carno and Basti. That said, they perform very different roles. Steagdons are a combat support unit. Running them with Skinks will buff them with battleshock re-rolls, additional movement, and re-rolling hits of 1. The EotG is taken for the hopes of additional FREE summoning (primarily Skinks) and MW output.

Again, I don't have experience with Chameleon Skinks, but you wouldn't want to replace Skinks entirely with them. For one, a unit of 5 Chameleons is 120 pts, where as a unit of 10 Skinks is 60. Skinks will always give you better board control for number of bodies to point ratio. However, the Chameleon Skinks could certainly perform well in a terrain heavy board, especially if an objective is inside or near a terrain feature, and make for a great addition to a list. Just keep in mind there's only 5 in the unit, it would be somewhat easy to overrun them on an objective they capture.

[sorokyl]

 

 

2 hours ago, Tea Rex said:

Well technically I don't have the book, so if my opponent was so inclined as to ask what the rules were or wanted to confirm I couldn't provide it? So I thought maybe best to stick to something I can produce?

There are almost 0 valid rules in the Seraphon Battletome. 

Allegiance abilities? Only in the GHB
Summoning rules? Only in the GHB.
Warscrolls? Most of the BT scrolls are wrong. Warscrolls are free on the AoS app.
Batallions? Most of the BT batallions are outdated. You need the errata, but technically you would need the BT for this. You can buy batallions ala cart in the AoS app if you must.

There is 0 valid reason to buy a Seraphon Battletome from a rules perspective. Only if you want to collect it, or read the fluff that will  likely be ret-conned later this year.... 

[Tea Rex]

1 hour ago, sorokyl said:

 

 

There are almost 0 valid rules in the Seraphon Battletome. 

Allegiance abilities? Only in the GHB
Summoning rules? Only in the GHB.
Warscrolls? Most of the BT scrolls are wrong. Warscrolls are free on the AoS app.
Batallions? Most of the BT batallions are outdated. You need the errata, but technically you would need the BT for this. You can buy batallions ala cart in the AoS app if you must.

There is 0 valid reason to buy a Seraphon Battletome from a rules perspective. Only if you want to collect it, or read the fluff that will  likely be ret-conned later this year.... 

Thanks for that, that's what I figured, I had no intention of buying the Seraphon Battletome, but only because it is super dated now.

I was referring specifically to the Malign Sorcery book in that comment which contains the realm artefacts suggested by Wilhelm - i.e. gryph feather charm.

[Televiper11]

Anyone ever use the Skink Starpriest?

[Wilhelm Stürmer]

@Televiper11 The Starpriest is a must in any list 1250 and below. Additionally, he's good enough for many lists above that as well.  He's one of only 4 Wizards the Seraphon have and has a great spell cast for an 80 point model. Additionally, Serpent's Staff is great to use in a Saurus list. I've used him in every battle I've played with Seraphon.

[Televiper11]

1 minute ago, Wilhelm Stürmer said:

@Televiper11 The Starpriest is a must in any list 1250 and below. Additionally, he's good enough for many lists above that as well.  He's one of only 4 Wizards the Seraphon have and has a great spell cast for an 80 point model. Additionally, Serpent's Staff is great to use in a Saurus list. I've used him in every battle I've played with Seraphon.

Do you prefer the Starpriest over the Starseer? 

[Wilhelm Stürmer]

@Televiper11 I don't own that model and thus haven't played it. Curse of Fates seems like an under-appreciated spell, though the Starpriest's Ability seems more useful, imo. Again, it comes down point value: 80 vs 200. The Starseer has only one cast and unbind, just like the Starpriest, so it comes down to the Spell and Ability. For 1250 pts and below, you want that Starpriest.