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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Seraphon Discussion

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I’m not a fan of eotg myself but that list is verified broken. 3 eotg is the magic number. You get mortal wounds for snipes, heal wounds in an aoe and summoning. In a team game that list is totally savage. Hell a 2k version of that list is making its way to the U.K. masters next week.

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I don't see how it's broken. And i didn't think Seraphon had done much since they were errata'd right after 2.0. 

3 engines of the gods will summon on average 1 unit of 20 skinks a turn (about a 1 in 3 chance for each).  For 660 points.   the other results are ok. but 220pts to do d6 mortal wounds I wouldn't call broken. i.e many wizards sub 100 points can do d3, and good ranged units can also do comparable damage for the points.   That's also easily countered. You have to set up the EoTG together around the slann and your opponent can just put his heroes somewhere else on the board out of range (and he can react to your movement, since EOTG happens in the hero phase before you can move). 

 

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Seraphon haven't done much but are getting better. A 1st, 3rd, and 5th place from LLV's stats but people are still figuring them out. They have won a few events in our local meta.

 

I think what you are missing about eotg is that its an incredible solid unit for 220 points. Healing, summoning, and ranged damage are all icing on the cake. Especially compared to the astrolith bearer post nerf. If you want d3 summoning points you might as well get a balewind vortex for the straight 3 and save 100 points. Also ripperdactyls are great from the eotg as well. I usually take ripperdactyls for the bloat toad which makes summoning them that much better.

 

I don't often take eotg but when I do I usually run it to hold a rear objective and push skinks into forward objectives with ripperdactyls as a hammer.

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9 minutes ago, Future said:

Seraphon haven't done much but are getting better. A 1st, 3rd, and 5th place from LLV's stats but people are still figuring them out. They have won a few events in our local meta.

 

I think what you are missing about eotg is that its an incredible solid unit for 220 points. Healing, summoning, and ranged damage are all icing on the cake. Especially compared to the astrolith bearer post nerf. If you want d3 summoning points you might as well get a balewind vortex for the straight 3 and save 100 points. Also ripperdactyls are great from the eotg as well. I usually take ripperdactyls for the bloat toad which makes summoning them that much better.

 

I don't often take eotg but when I do I usually run it to hold a rear objective and push skinks into forward objectives with ripperdactyls as a hammer.

As a new guy playing seraphon, I wonder for the ripperdactyls summoned by EoTG, do they have bloat toad and how/when are they setup? 

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@HammerOfSigmar 

 

In your first hero phase place a bloat toad for each of your units of ripperdactyls. I've seen this played two ways. No bloat toad for summoning and yes bloat toad but only if you summon in the first hero phase. I believe the second method is most correct.

 

So by taking a unit in my list I rule out any chance of not having a bloat toad.

Edited by Future
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The reason I use an EOTG is to blast something with D6 mortal wounds every turn :P

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Hello again, fellow Seraphon players! So, my 500pt game did not go in my favor, but I feel I learned and I still had fun; both important outcomes. The next match up is 750pts. Not sure if there will be objectives or not, as yet. I think the following list will serve me well, but I'd certainly love some input.

As a note, I have available to me: 1x ScarVet on Carno, 1x ScarVet on Cold One, 1x Sunblood, 1x Skink Starpriest, 1x Skink Priest, 5x Knight, 10x Warriors and I SHOULD have a Seraphon Starclaw Strikehost and a box of Skinks available to assemble before the match.

Allegiance: Seraphon
Mortal Realm: Ghur
Skink Starpriest (80)
- General
- Trait: Master of Star Rituals 
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 
20 x Skinks (120)
- Boltspitters & Moonstone Clubs
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters & Moonstone Clubs
6 x Ripperdactyl Riders (280)
Shadowstrike Starhost (180)
Prismatic Palisade (30)

Total: 750 / 750
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 52

My opponent will be bringing:

Allegiance: Wanderers
Mortal Realm: Ghur
Waywatcher (120)
- General
20 x Glade Guard (240)
10 x Sisters of the Watch (180)
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Scythes

Total: 740 / 750
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 50

As you can see, lots of shooting. SO MANY ARROWS. Not great for me. Wasn't great for me at 500pts, either. HOWEVER, I'm hoping I can mitigate some of that with Palisades and Shadowstrike. What are your thoughts?

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I’m considering getting the Christmas battleforce twice over as it seems like I could make a decent army from it if I add a slann. Summoning being a big part of Seraphon what extra units would I want to invest in to be summoned?

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I think the battleforce has you covered. You can build a Troglodon/Carnosaur with either kit, and either monster you build you end up with a skink or Saurus hero on foot. If you're a skilled hobbyist you can translate those into priests, starpriests, oldbloods, or sunbloods. You can comfortably make 6 ripperdactyls and 6 terradons, and have a whole raft of skinks for skirmishing. 

As far as further investment goes, after the Slann you can get an astrolith bearer, maybe a Balewind and Malign Sorcery, or the stegadon kit are all excellent. 

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I’m gonna be proxying a list soon for seraphon to gauge whether I want to start playing them again. I made an 1000 point list and it would be helpful if y’all picked it apart as I have no experience with seraphon (in Age of sigmar anyways, go Lizardmen! Lol) and not much experience list building in AOS 

 

Slann w/ great rememberer (general) -260 pts 

astrolith bearer-160 points

razordon*3 -120 pts 

razordon*3 -120 pts 

skinks w/ boltspitters and moon clubs*20 -120 pts 

skinks w/boltspitters and moon clubs*20 -120 pts 

endless spells: cogs and Bale wind vortex -100 pts 

1000/1000

no battalions 

the plan is to teleport razordons and skinks to damage, disrupt, and take objectives while summoning in more razordons and skinks. I don’t know what is best to summon but I also will have salamders to summon when I need to get rid of elites/heroes and I also plan to try out a tactic where I change cogs and try to change the constellation to get plus 3 to charge and then summon an old blood on carnosaur to attempt a charge with said bonus and hopefully a command reroll. I’m also interested in trying to summon trogolodons since they can get plus 3 to charge with their poison spit! I’ve also heard of people summoning terradons but since they can’t use their bombs right away I thought maybe searching for other immediate threats would be better especially since this list seems to lacks damage at times(I test out scenarios and roll dice to see how certain tactic may perform, sometimes math hammer misses some of the important nuances like positioning and damage outside the average.) I’m also new to forums like this so if I made the list in a wrong/confusing format please tell me! I’ll try to fix it

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Hey folks, I've got an army list kicking around in my head and I'd like feedback on 1) whether the two battalions are worth it based on opportunity costs , 2) what sort of artefacts I should take, and 3) a rules interpretation question. More detail below. It's a Slann General, with a shadowstrike and Thunderquake starhost. 

Slann - General - Great Rememberer - Chronomantic Cogs - (Incandescent Retrices?) 

Astrolith Bearer - (Coronal Shield?) 

Skink Skirmishers - blowguns and shields

Thunderquake -

*Troglodon

*Stegadon

*Bastiladon

*Salamander

Shadowstrike -

*Starpriest - (Zoetic Dial?)

*6 Ripperdactyls

*10 skinks - blowguns and shields

*10 skinks - javelins and shields

My big concerns are that the Slann and Thunderquake are very much an anchor and it makes a mobility army a little tied down. The Troglodon instead of an Engine of the Gods is a pretty major downgrade but its based on points. I REALLY want an Engine but I reasoned with myself 6 Ripperdactyls would be more value added, otherwise why bother taking the shadowstrike. The Salamander vice the Razordon, I can trivially summon a handler to help out with the range problem, and if I had to choose between rerolling hits and wounds on a single high value attack vs a random amount of low value attacks, the Salamander won. (Plus I love my old metal sculpt). I'll probably be summoning Razordons, though. 

I also want to make sure of something; my interpretation is that the Starpriest's "double damage on wound rolls of 6+ for jaws/bites" ability will trigger for the Ripperdactyl's beaks. This lets them trigger it on a 5+ on the turn they appear, right? 

For artefacts, I have a lot of vulnerability to heavy shooting. Is the Ragged Cloak probably the best option? I can't utilize the ethereal amulet with the cogs save rerolls either, right? There isn't a melee hero in sight here to take advantage of a cool weapon, which bums me out. 

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A Beak is neither a Bite nor a Jaw Attack - so no, the Serpent's Staff won't work on it, sorry. 

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Any one have any luck with everblaze comet in seraphon? I was thinking of adding it with a knight incantor for morathi, and nurgle. Also anyone try out Celestar Ballista? I feel like Razordons are better but ballista seem pretty strong in other lists. Basically thinking of taking these guys in an otherwise generic shadow strike / engine of the gods list.

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Bring comet to a tournament and lots of friendly games recently. Works pretty well for me ( finished 2nd at this tourney ) It's a big investment and rely on a 5 w char so you have to protect him . It's a good way to bring in mw and overall a good investment.

Havent tried Celestar but 15 razordons are a cool thing :D

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@aktanolt thanks for the heads up on the comet I am definitely giving it a try in that case. I love razordons! I  find I need them less with ripperdactyl lists but that could be my play style too. I am thinking the balista at -2 rend might be more reliable against certain armies.

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ballista and razordons are both very unsteady damage dealer, D6 is a magic. If not considering their points, I think ballista is better since it is a -2 rend so basically ignoring the enemy's save if it is not a hero. What's more, it has a 2+ save against shooting when it sits on a terrain, so it is not afraid of being taken down by shooting. However, razordons are much cheaper so I really can't tell which is better considering their points.

By the way.

Well, one good way for seraphon to deal with multiple ballista sitting together is use the bastiladon to charge the ballistas. Once succeed, they will be locked forever since it has only 3" movement, so no retreat is possible. It happens to me when I am playing SCE two or three weeks again.

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Thanks for the bastiladon charge tip, I love it! I agree both are unsteady. When I said more reliable I meant against model types. I actually find razordons d6 to be not so punishing because there are so many of them. I just also find when I bring 6 ripperdactyls I don't need more hits at any range, I need a bigger rend. Considering the points razordons are incredible in my opinion. The only balanced thing about them is the price tag keeping them out of games :)

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23 hours ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

 

Well, one good way for seraphon to deal with multiple ballista sitting together is use the bastiladon to charge the ballistas. Once succeed, they will be locked forever since it has only 3" movement, so no retreat is possible. It happens to me when I am playing SCE two or three weeks again.

My advice for the next time something like this happens, would be to run your ballista while retreating. I did not find a rule preventing war machines to do so. Anyone? 😅 

EDIT: just imagine its crew running and pushing reeeaally hard ;)

Edited by Kaleydoscope

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2 minutes ago, Kaleydoscope said:

My advice for the next time something like this happens, would be to run your ballista while retreating. I did not find a rule preventing war machines to do so. Anyone? 😅 

It's weird, I think I saw rules about war machine not able run somewhere but cannot find it now. I am not sure whether you can run and retreat at the same time though.

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3 hours ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

It's weird, I think I saw rules about war machine not able run somewhere but cannot find it now. I am not sure whether you can run and retreat at the same time though.

You absolutely can retreat and run at the same time.

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On 1/23/2019 at 11:03 AM, PJetski said:

You absolutely can retreat and run at the same time.

You reminded me of a question I had. Teleporting out of combat was FAQ in AOS 1 but not AOS 2.

So for LoSaT does teleporting out of combat count as a retreat when you roll a 3-4? RAW says 3-4 this counts as your move action for the next movement phase. Since I started in 3 inches of the enemy and ended out of 3 inches of the enemy I read this as I performed a retreat action. 

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9 minutes ago, Future said:

You reminded me of a question I had. Teleporting out of combat was FAQ in AOS 1 but not AOS 2.

So for LoSaT does teleporting out of combat count as a retreat when you roll a 3-4? RAW says 3-4 this counts as your move action for the next movement phase. Since I started in 3 inches of the enemy and ended out of 3 inches of the enemy I read this as I performed a retreat action. 

No it is not a retreat

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4 minutes ago, Future said:

@chord Where are the rules clarifying what type of move it is?


The core rules for running say  "Units starting a NORMAL move within 3" of an enemy unit can... retreat"

LoSaT 3-4 counts as a move, but it is not equal to making a normal move in the movement phase. 
 

Edited by sorokyl
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2 minutes ago, Future said:

@chord Where are the rules clarifying what type of move it is?

1. Removing a unit from the table is not the same as moving.

2. You can only retreat in the movement phase - Lords of Space and Time is done in the hero phase.

3. Setting up a unit does not count as moving, as per the "Reserves" clause on page 227.

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