AoS 2 - Seraphon Discussion

[Sol-Rek]

1 hour ago, AaronWilson said:

I think the problem with a second slann, let alone a third is it eats too much into your ability to put models that actually do on the damage on the table. Kroak + Balewind + Astrolith + Skink heroes to use for arcane vassal is enough without eating too deep into your list. 

Two things: one, this is supposed to be a meme list, two I'm using the summoning to try and fix that.

I haven't gotten to use it yet cuz covid.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Sol-Rek

[AaronWilson]

On 3/24/2021 at 5:39 PM, Sol-Rek said:

Two things: one, this is supposed to be a meme list, two I'm using the summoning to try and fix that.

I haven't gotten to use it yet cuz covid.

Okay no problem, most of luck with it!

[Joseph Mackay]

I don’t get it, why do so many people seem to hate Lord Kroak and think he’s undercosted? His warscroll is a massive nerf from the old one in my eyes and no one complained about him then.

additionally, what exactly make Seraphon a ‘top tier’ army, and makes some people complain they’re overpowered?

[Calebexnihilo]

1 hour ago, Joseph Mackay said:

I don’t get it, why do so many people seem to hate Lord Kroak and think he’s undercosted? His warscroll is a massive nerf from the old one in my eyes and no one complained about him then.

additionally, what exactly make Seraphon a ‘top tier’ army, and makes some people complain they’re overpowered?

I think alot of the Kroak-feel bad comes from when he is fielded at 600-800 points of full power (Kroak + Astrolith +Balewind + Sage's Staff + Saurus Guard) and then the opponent looks at the 320 point cost of solo Kroak and they complain. Kroak by himself is not a big threat. Once you add 400 points to his cost, he becomes quite good (as he should be at 700 points).

Fangs of Sotek DOES create some bad play experiences, especially for melee armies. I'll roll 160 dice at you doing mortals in my turn. Then in your turn, you charge me... i roll another bucket of dice at you doing mortals... and then retreat out of combat before you can attack. Teleporting Salamanders to snipe enemy heroes. Ambushing Chamo Skinks to kill even more heroes. It can be a rough army to play against sometimes.

Of course all of that is easily countered with the new rising Meta-Lord Teclis and LRL. Sentinels will easily snipe off all the Starpriests and can out range Kroak-nado.

[AaronWilson]

After playing around with a lot of lists, I will be playing this for the rest of the competitive season via TTS until we get the new GHB. Of course for local more casual games I will be playing some different stuff. 

[AaronWilson]

5 hours ago, Joseph Mackay said:

I don’t get it, why do so many people seem to hate Lord Kroak and think he’s undercosted? His warscroll is a massive nerf from the old one in my eyes and no one complained about him then.

additionally, what exactly make Seraphon a ‘top tier’ army, and makes some people complain they’re overpowered?

I have played with Kroak a lot and I have played against a fair few Kroaks while playing around with some FEC & Orruk Warclans.

I can see the frustration, I played a game last night where in one turn he did 39 mortal wounds in one turn, from very far away, with +3 to cast on everything. That output from one model sitting pretty much wherever he wants on the table, on a 3+/4++ with 10 ablative wounds near him is very oppressive. There are counter plays - you can snipe the support pieces (though their often screened and have a 6++). You can try play around his 22" Celestial Delivarance, though Arcane Vassal makes it hard. On top of his MW output, he supplies command points, board wide unbinds with +2 to unbind commonly and he him self is very hard to kill.

Yes his normal outfit is a lot of points, (Balewind + Banner + a vassal) but the banner bearer brings fantastic utility him self, any skink wizard hero is fantastic in it's own right. For 320 points Kroaks warscroll is pretty wild (4 casts, board wide dispels, +1 built in, fantastic warscroll spells, acess to stellar tempest) etc etc.

It can be very demoralizing to see your army eroded away without much interaction, and that's where peoples frustration comes from. While there some counter plays, some armies simply don't have them. Kroak in FoS with skink screens some armies might as well not play the game and even those other armies that are in the S/A tier with Seraphon are really only having a fighting chance.

The reason why Seraphon are top tier is really a longer answer but TL;DR would be - undercosted units, huge mortal wound output, very strong shooting, hyper mobile, teleports, ability to move outside of their own turn (In FOS). They have everything you need to compete, dictate the pace of the game and play the scenario every game while offloading huge damage. 

[JustAsPlanned]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/04/12/lord-kroak-has-returned-and-hes-had-an-epic-glow-up/
 

The toad is back!

[AaronWilson]

15 hours ago, JustAsPlanned said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/04/12/lord-kroak-has-returned-and-hes-had-an-epic-glow-up/
 

The toad is back!

Absolutely mad model, I cannot wait to see that new warscroll. 

[Mattrulesok]

I'd been putting off buying Kroak as he's not in my ideal seraphon army but i feel my rubber arm is being twisted here.

[LuminethMage]

34 minutes ago, AaronWilson said:

Absolutely mad model, I cannot wait to see that new warscroll. 

Will be interesting to see what they'll do with his warscroll, yup. The model is awesome, hopefully he get's an equally awesome scroll and fitting points. Then most people will be happy : ) 

[AaronWilson]

38 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

Will be interesting to see what they'll do with his warscroll, yup. The model is awesome, hopefully he get's an equally awesome scroll and fitting points. Then most people will be happy : ) 

Yes 100%, I imagine he will be a lot more points with hopefully rules to represent that!

[Socrates]

Looking for advice/experiences from Old-Ones that are willing to share any about the following subject:

Playing with the thought of collecting a Thunder Lizard/ 'all' Stegadon army. Found some general write-ups already but also very interested in personal experiences playing an 'all' Dino-army.  

Idea is a Stegadon army with maybe two small groups of skinks for screening & objective grabbing. (first goal is 1000 points to get a few games in)

Not looking for tournament-winning lists, but just like anyone else would like to at least be able make my opponent at least struggle a bit for the victory.

Thanks in advance!  

[AaronWilson]

On 4/13/2021 at 7:23 PM, Socrates said:

Looking for advice/experiences from Old-Ones that are willing to share any about the following subject:

Playing with the thought of collecting a Thunder Lizard/ 'all' Stegadon army. Found some general write-ups already but also very interested in personal experiences playing an 'all' Dino-army.  

Idea is a Stegadon army with maybe two small groups of skinks for screening & objective grabbing. (first goal is 1000 points to get a few games in)

Not looking for tournament-winning lists, but just like anyone else would like to at least be able make my opponent at least struggle a bit for the victory.

Thanks in advance!  

Hey man, Stegadons in Thunder Lizard offer some good shooting and fairly reliable melee damage with it all being on 3s. Skinks are ideal for screening though struggle with bravery outside of Starbourne. I certainly think a list with a Skink chief on steg, a couple more stegadons and some skinks for objectives would work, your main issue will always once your skinks are dead the scenario. As AoS is soley scenario based, it may prove hard to pull out a win. 

[Socrates]

4 hours ago, AaronWilson said:

Hey man, Stegadons in Thunder Lizard offer some good shooting and fairly reliable melee damage with it all being on 3s. Skinks are ideal for screening though struggle with bravery outside of Starbourne. I certainly think a list with a Skink chief on steg, a couple more stegadons and some skinks for objectives would work, your main issue will always once your skinks are dead the scenario. As AoS is soley scenario based, it may prove hard to pull out a win. 

Thanks! I Agree: objective grabbing is definitely a pain with this list, but also a nice challenge. Currently thinking for first 1000 points:

2 Chiefs on Steg

1 Starseer (might give me additional cp each round & adds some magic to the army)

2 x 10 skinks

1 Steg 

Would you advice on the bows or the Gunfire Throwers? And which equipment for the skinks?

Thanks! 

[AaronWilson]

2 hours ago, Socrates said:

Thanks! I Agree: objective grabbing is definitely a pain with this list, but also a nice challenge. Currently thinking for first 1000 points:

2 Chiefs on Steg

1 Starseer (might give me additional cp each round & adds some magic to the army)

2 x 10 skinks

1 Steg 

Would you advice on the bows or the Gunfire Throwers? And which equipment for the skinks?

Thanks! 

The bows on 3/3s offer very reliable shooting and allow you to reach out, I would 100 go for the bows. For the skinks it's pretty trivial, but I prefer the ranges of the bolt spitters. 

[Orchid89]

I just bought my partner 2 of the new Broken Realms boxes as her intro to Seraphon (She loves Stegs) My partner also bought them not knowing I had already bought some.

Should we cancel 1 or 2 of the boxes or is it worth having 6 or 8 Stegs? (Stegagedon?) We could always sell them in the future so atm we are keeping them but we do have time to cancel right now.

EDIT: I am having a go on the AoS Builder and I think 3 boxes might be fun, maybe we should cancel 1 of the boxes.

4 boxes would be pure Steg (although that might be fun, I think adding a little other flavour will be better.)

Whatever we do decide to do, we are not fan of any of the Battleline units (although Skinks are far nicer than the Saurus guys)

EDIT2: Something like this would look amazing on the board. 🤩 Rule of cool, I have no idea if it would play well (although we dont really care about that so much, we arent competitive)

Lord Kroak (320)
Stegadon with Skink Chief (250)
Engine of the Gods (260)
Skink Oracle on Troglodon (220)
Stegadon (240)
Stegadon (240)
Stegadon (240)
Bastiladon (220)

If I sell the unused Bastiladons + Saurus this whole army would cost around £100 + Kroak (whatever he will cost)

I hope Kroak wont cost too much

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Orchid89

[Sol-Rek]

14 hours ago, Orchid89 said:

I just bought my partner 2 of the new Broken Realms boxes as her intro to Seraphon (She loves Stegs) My partner also bought them not knowing I had already bought some.

Should we cancel 1 or 2 of the boxes or is it worth having 6 or 8 Stegs? (Stegagedon?) We could always sell them in the future so atm we are keeping them but we do have time to cancel right now.

EDIT: I am having a go on the AoS Builder and I think 3 boxes might be fun, maybe we should cancel 1 of the boxes.

4 boxes would be pure Steg (although that might be fun, I think adding a little other flavour will be better.)

Whatever we do decide to do, we are not fan of any of the Battleline units (although Skinks are far nicer than the Saurus guys)

EDIT2: Something like this would look amazing on the board. 🤩 Rule of cool, I have no idea if it would play well (although we dont really care about that so much, we arent competitive)

Lord Kroak (320)
Stegadon with Skink Chief (250)
Engine of the Gods (260)
Skink Oracle on Troglodon (220)
Stegadon (240)
Stegadon (240)
Stegadon (240)
Bastiladon (220)

If I sell the unused Bastiladons + Saurus this whole army would cost around £100 + Kroak (whatever he will cost)

I hope Kroak wont cost too much

 

DO IT

Are you going for a winning list? Then ask someone else. Crazy but fun lists? That's me. I say do it, but one change. I think you would be better off taking a Bastiladon rather than an Oracle, but then again I'm stupid when it comes to logical list building.

THEY SHALL PERISH BENEATH THE THUNDER OF THE OLD ONES

[Orchid89]

13 hours ago, Sol-Rek said:

DO IT

Are you going for a winning list? Then ask someone else. Crazy but fun lists? That's me. I say do it, but one change. I think you would be better off taking a Bastiladon rather than an Oracle, but then again I'm stupid when it comes to logical list building.

THEY SHALL PERISH BENEATH THE THUNDER OF THE OLD ONES

I mean that certainly will be cheaper because it already comes in the Broken Realms box.
Actually, its a good idea and i will take your advice, also i wanted to build 1 of each Bastiladon anyway.

Thanks

I only added the Troglodon for variety but I can always get that some other day.

For now, I just need to wait for Kroak

EDIT:

I forgot, I need to leave points for potential Battalions 

Edit2: aww damn, I need Kroxigors or hunting packs? Lame. I hope they update the models.

Let's hope the new battalion is good.

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by Orchid89

[Sol-Rek]

Thinking of the new Kroak, will he be the next central character for the Broken Realms, like Be'lakor? Or is he just gonna be a new  mdel and rules? Also does anyone think we will get other new models (whether old units updated or entirely new ones)?

[Skreech Verminking]

5 hours ago, Sol-Rek said:

Thinking of the new Kroak, will he be the next central character for the Broken Realms, like Be'lakor? Or is he just gonna be a new  mdel and rules? Also does anyone think we will get other new models (whether old units updated or entirely new ones)?

I’ve got to the book and can tell you that he is not in it.

so maybe the next brokens realms, after that very weird destruction guy will be the hated lizardthings?

or maybe there will be a new tome??

[Juicy]

kroak is massive in the broken realm belakor book

[Mattrulesok]

Finally got to play my first all SKINKS list today vs the wife's deepkin. We played starstrike and thanks to plenty of good luck I won the day after winning priority Rd 5 and wiping everything she had left taking it 28-20. Photos of setup, Rd 2 and end of the game. 

[AaronWilson]

Congratulations on the win mate, love the amount of stompy fellas in your list!

[Mattrulesok]

23 minutes ago, AaronWilson said:

Congratulations on the win mate, love the amount of stompy fellas in your list!

Thanks, it was a fun game. I really like the way GW is starting to write behemoth/monster warscrolls. The stegs and basti feel worth their points, they hit hard and present genuine threat to your opponent but also both myself and my wife had objectives stolen off us in this game because we had a single behemoth on an objective and the other player simply moved 2 models onto the objective. There are actual pros and cons to these big monsters in both these armies. 

[SirSalabean]

Hi all! I’ve got two start collecting skinks, and two boxes of skinks and two stagadons do I need anything else or am I good to go? I have no clue when it comes to list building I mainly just wanted a cool skink army and to try and avoid the older models in the rank.