PJetski Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 Razordons and Salamanders were pretty close when they were both 80pt. With Salamanders going up to 110 it will be easy to swap to Razordons and keep Salamanders in the summoning pool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, PJetski said: Razordons and Salamanders were pretty close when they were both 80pt. With Salamanders going up to 110 it will be easy to swap to Razordons and keep Salamanders in the summoning pool. What? How were they close? Razordons do nowhere near the damage that Salamanders do, even if you throw a Starpriest onto the Razordons. 21 attacks (average 6D6) at 3/4/0/1 with 6s to wound = 1 MW in addition is just under 6 damage against 4+ save. 12 attacks at 3/3/-2/D3 naked is around 10,5 damage against 4+ save. Edit: Salamanders are still Kings. 40 Skinks come close but they provide something much different than teleported Salamanders do. Edited July 21, 2020 by Kasper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 (edited) I guess if you just ignore their charge phase shooting, Rend within 6", and combat phase then Salamanders are much better.... though I'm not sure why you would do something that silly It's also much easier for them to hit targets behind screens with their 18" range, even if it means you lose out on Rend-1 Edited July 21, 2020 by PJetski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 17 hours ago, PJetski said: I guess if you just ignore their charge phase shooting, Rend within 6", and combat phase then Salamanders are much better.... though I'm not sure why you would do something that silly It's also much easier for them to hit targets behind screens with their 18" range, even if it means you lose out on Rend-1 Because you generally dont really want your Salamanders/Razordons into melee, and typically if you have teleported the odds of it happening is also rather slim. I would prefer significantly stronger shooting so I can teleport and pick off a key unit, then maybe try to charge some weak unit afterwards. You just cant do that with Razordons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aktanolt Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 55 minutes ago, Kasper said: Because you generally dont really want your Salamanders/Razordons into melee Totally wrong. They are a unit with a strong output on only 3 models and some board presence ( 12 model) Charging a flying unit of sallies made me win lots of game because noone expect it and it destroy in melee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, aktanolt said: Totally wrong. They are a unit with a strong output on only 3 models and some board presence ( 12 model) Charging a flying unit of sallies made me win lots of game because noone expect it and it destroy in melee. Take things out of context much? Yes I have won games by charging with my Salamanders too, but arguing that Razordons are better (they still arent) because you will always get the charge off is just wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) You dont always jump into melee, but if you are ignoring their powerful melee attacks you're not getting the most out of sal/raz. Those Rend-2 2/D3 attacks are brutal, especially on Salamanders because they can activate It Burns in melee. Also worth noting that if you're playing Coalesced then Salamanders get an extra attack in melee (it is a Jaws attack), and if you're playing Thunderquake Templehost you can give them another attack in melee. Edited July 22, 2020 by PJetski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nart Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 The only advantage of razordons is their range and it doesn't compensate for random number of shots and lack of rend outside of 6". They also lack "It burns!" and their additional d6 shots should not be taken as granted. If they were 3d6 shots, the talk would be different. Unfortunately, razordons are just unreliable. I'd take more skinks instead of them. Salamanders still rock. They are too good. GW eliminated spam, but there's still no reason not to take at least 5 in a competitive list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoogens Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 So whats the verdict? Have Seraphon really lost Sylvaneth as an ally, just like that? Seems strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper Posted July 26, 2020 Share Posted July 26, 2020 On 7/24/2020 at 5:25 PM, Snoogens said: So whats the verdict? Have Seraphon really lost Sylvaneth as an ally, just like that? Seems strange. Yep. The GHB2020 specifically mentions that only Stormcast are viable allies for Seraphon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umpac Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 On 7/24/2020 at 5:25 PM, Snoogens said: So whats the verdict? Have Seraphon really lost Sylvaneth as an ally, just like that? Seems strange. This will likely be fixed in the GHB errata. The GHB was written before the new Seraphon book so that's most likely why they aren't listed as allies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolomonHelsing Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 So have had a good three wins on TTS with this list, twice against fyreslayers and one against Big Waaaagh. Spoiler Allegiance: Seraphon- Constellation: Koatl's ClawLeadersLord Kroak (320)- Spell: Celestial EquilibriumSaurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)- General- War Spear- Command Trait: Dominant Predator- Artefact: Blade of RealitiesSkink Starseer (140)- Artefact: Cloak of Feathers- Spell: Fiery ConvocationSaurus Sunblood (130)- Artefact: Eviscerating BladeBattleline10 x Saurus Knights (200)- Lances5 x Saurus Knights (100)- Lances5 x Saurus Knights (100)- Lances10 x Saurus Warriors (90)- Clubs10 x Saurus Warriors (90)- Clubs10 x Saurus Warriors (90)- ClubsUnits4 x Salamander Hunting Pack (110)BattalionsFirelance Temple-host (160)Sunclaw Temple-host (140)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPsChronomantic Cogs (80)Bound Quicksilver Swords (40)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 2Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 107 I'm thinking for the next game I might sub out the salamander and sunblood and put the oldblood carnosaur back in charge of the sunclaw. Whilst I'm 95% confident the +1 to wound from the sunblood and the decent bit of high rend shooting and melee from the salamander are much more beneficial to the list on the whole... I just like 2 Rend Carnosaur bites, and a few mortal wounds from the spear's 3 attacks compared to sunblood's 6 isn't too big a drop considering I can get the Carnosaur in sooner. Just Preparing for a TTS tournament on the 29th. Pretty sure I want to leave it as is, but can't hurt to try changing it up just a little again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 @SolomonHelsing The spell on Kroak must be a mistake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolomonHelsing Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 @Kasper For the first turn no, As one plan I have Kroak casting that, then cogs. The Starseer manipulates them to cast 2 spells, casting the quicksilver swords and his +1 save spell on a friendly unit. It's worked nicely when i've done it like that. Then i just change his spell to what's likely stellar tempest for round 2 onwards. without either range boost it's possible kroak won't be in range for it turn 1 anyways, so I went for a different approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 1 hour ago, SolomonHelsing said: @Kasper For the first turn no, As one plan I have Kroak casting that, then cogs. The Starseer manipulates them to cast 2 spells, casting the quicksilver swords and his +1 save spell on a friendly unit. It's worked nicely when i've done it like that. Then i just change his spell to what's likely stellar tempest for round 2 onwards. without either range boost it's possible kroak won't be in range for it turn 1 anyways, so I went for a different approach. Ah I didnt realize you wanted the +1 on two spells on the Starseer. Is the only purpose for the Cogs to give him an extra spell or do you ever activate for extra mobility? 80 pts seems like a lot. Im personally a big fan of the Balewind. I guess you dont want your casters stationary in the back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolomonHelsing Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Kasper said: Ah I didnt realize you wanted the +1 on two spells on the Starseer. Is the only purpose for the Cogs to give him an extra spell or do you ever activate for extra mobility? 80 pts seems like a lot. Im personally a big fan of the Balewind. I guess you dont want your casters stationary in the back? It actually is in there primarily for the mobility buff to really get the carnosaur and bigger unit of knights in there more consistently, albeit i've used it often enough now i'm cautious on giving the opponent that buff too often now so having a good plan b of getting two spells from the starseer to get the swords out turn 1 too was useful. It's not so much that, I've kept kroak back on home objective, or close by in the realmshaper mostly as his spell at 10" has been enough of a threat to stop it getting charged, leaving me able to focus on what i'm doing with the saurus taking other objectives. However I can't have him in the realmshaper and on balewind, and him being in the realmshaper saves the starseer being stuck there, which I don't want as his 3D6 charge is needed where it's most useful. Kroak for me is much more of a support piece than something I want to put any more points in, I've used the full package once and realised that's not how I want to win games. Edited August 12, 2020 by SolomonHelsing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dankboss Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 I want to see people's Dreadsaurian lists. I know he can be somewhat viable with the right buffs, but I haven't actually seen someone utilize him yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calebexnihilo Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 On 8/16/2020 at 6:22 AM, Dankboss said: I want to see people's Dreadsaurian lists. I know he can be somewhat viable with the right buffs, but I haven't actually seen someone utilize him yet. If i had one, i might run it like this: Allegiance: Seraphon- Constellation: Thunder LizardLord Kroak (320)- Spell: Stellar TempestEngine of the Gods (260)- General- Command Trait: Prime Warbeast- Artefact: Fusil of Conflaguration5 x Saurus Guard (100)5 x Saurus Guard (100)5 x Saurus Knights (100)- Lances5 x Saurus Knights (100)- LancesDread Saurian (510)Bastiladon (220)- Weapon: Solar EngineBastiladon (220)- Weapon: Solar EngineBound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (70)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 114 He is not really a beat stick, but he IS a tank! So i'm gonna spend one cmd point on him to let him fly (from Kroak) and then get him smashed in. 37 wounds at -1 to dmg should keep him around a while. I'll then support him with the EoTG double tapping it (Thunderlizard) to heal 2D3 wounds per turn. Force the opponent to deal with Dread while I fire Solar Engines Bastiladons over the top and drag Geminids back and forth in their lines. That list should probably drop a bastiladon to add a Starseer. He can give +1 to save to Dread and help him make the turn 1 charge. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolomonHelsing Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 Went 3-0 and came 3rd on Strength Of Schedule at Hammertime 2 over the weekend. Making it through to the final 16 tournament that'll be taking place sometime in September. Used this List: Spoiler Allegiance: Seraphon- Constellation: Koatl's ClawLord Kroak (320)- Spell: Stellar TempestSaurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)- General- War Spear- Command Trait: Dominant Predator- Artefact: Blade of RealitiesSkink Starseer (140)- Artefact: Cloak of Feathers- Spell: Fiery ConvocationSaurus Sunblood (130)- Artefact: Eviscerating BladeSkink Starpriest (120)- Spell: Hand of Glory10 x Saurus Knights (200)- Lances5 x Saurus Knights (100)- Lances5 x Saurus Knights (100)- Lances10 x Saurus Warriors (90)- Clubs10 x Saurus Warriors (90)- Clubs10 x Saurus Warriors (90)- ClubsFirelance Temple-host (160)Sunclaw Temple-host (140)Chronomantic Cogs (80)Total: 1970 / 2000Extra Command Points: 2Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 105 Slight modification to the list I posted previously, found the 6's to wound Mortals from the starpriest extremely beneficial on the rendless unit of 10 knights to get more damage through against high save units, or even more casualties from low save units. Took on a 300 gnoblar list first on scorched earth. I found an opening to turn 1 charge the tyrant and take away his ability for battleshock immunity, and pulled it off, so then it was a case of chewing through the gnoblars whilst some frost sabres and icebrow hunter were dealth with by the warriors sunblood and smaller knight unit. Next up was Battle for the pass, 24 Morrsarr Eels, 3 Ishalen eels, akhelian king and two soulscryers, blocked off his ambushes from behind for first two turns, Scar Vet made a long 3d6 charge against ishalen eels and disposed of them. Went onto get the double turn going into unit of 6 Morrsarr deep in his backlines with the run and charging carnosaur. Rest of army held out long enough for the scar vet to score his objective for two turns and get ahead enough on points. Third game was Focal Points against 30 tuskgor chariots, 30 gors and a beastlord in brass despoilers. Was up against a charge phase involving about 5/6 units of chariots first turn but only two units on one flank made it in despite rerolls. So my unit of 10 knights in the centre almost took out two units of 4 in one go and sunblood and some warriors heavily damaged another unit of 4. Went down to priority roll turn 4 or 5 and flying carnosaur taking down beastlord left by their totem to get another auxiliary objective and pull far enough ahead to call it there. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archibald Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Hey guys, i am thinking about starting my own Jurassic park. Guess i would start with the new start collecting box and do a thunderlizards army. What do you guys say to the following list? 1000p thunderlizards 1x Scar Veteran on Carnosaur 1x Skink Starprist 10x Skinks 1x Bastilodon 1x Stegadon with firethrower 1x extra CP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calebexnihilo Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 31 minutes ago, Archibald said: Hey guys, i am thinking about starting my own Jurassic park. Guess i would start with the new start collecting box and do a thunderlizards army. What do you guys say to the following list? 1000p thunderlizards 1x Scar Veteran on Carnosaur 1x Skink Starprist 10x Skinks 1x Bastilodon 1x Stegadon with firethrower 1x extra CP I think that is only 900 points. I would pretty much ALWAYS bring the Skystreakbow on the Stegadon instead of the flamethrower. The flamethrower CAN be good on the Skink Chief on Stegadon with Prime Warbeast and the +1 from the constelation.... but as the normie Stegadon, it just doesn't do enough dmg. The Skink Starpriest really needs a unit to buff that has alot of attacks. Saurus Knights would fit well into your list. They would be rolling a BUNCH of dice (7 attacks each model) in Coalesced. I might run your list at 1000pts like this: Allegiance: Seraphon- Constellation: Thunder LizardLeadersSaurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)- General- War Spear- Command Trait: Prime Warbeast- Artefact: Fusil of ConflagurationSkink Starpriest (120)- Spell: Hand of GloryBattleline10 x Saurus Knights (200)- LancesStegadon (240)- Weapon: Skystreak BowBehemothsBastiladon (220)- Weapon: Solar EngineTotal: 990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 56 The Knights will be buffed by the Scar Vet and Starpriest. Stegadon can operate on his own. Bastiladon can hang back and double fire (thx to Thunderlizard). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archibald Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Calebexnihilo said: I think that is only 900 points. I would pretty much ALWAYS bring the Skystreakbow on the Stegadon instead of the flamethrower. The flamethrower CAN be good on the Skink Chief on Stegadon with Prime Warbeast and the +1 from the constelation.... but as the normie Stegadon, it just doesn't do enough dmg. The Skink Starpriest really needs a unit to buff that has alot of attacks. Saurus Knights would fit well into your list. They would be rolling a BUNCH of dice (7 attacks each model) in Coalesced. I might run your list at 1000pts like this: Allegiance: Seraphon- Constellation: Thunder LizardLeadersSaurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)- General- War Spear- Command Trait: Prime Warbeast- Artefact: Fusil of ConflagurationSkink Starpriest (120)- Spell: Hand of GloryBattleline10 x Saurus Knights (200)- LancesStegadon (240)- Weapon: Skystreak BowBehemothsBastiladon (220)- Weapon: Solar EngineTotal: 990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 56 The Knights will be buffed by the Scar Vet and Starpriest. Stegadon can operate on his own. Bastiladon can hang back and double fire (thx to Thunderlizard). Argh, sorry i forgot to include 3x Teradonriders for 90p. I absolutely don't like the Saurus Knights models, so they are not an option.🙈 Because of that i don't want to buy the old SC-box. I thought one of each dinosaur type will look dope (1 Carnosaur, 1 Bastiladon, 1 Stegadon, 1unit of Teradon). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calebexnihilo Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Archibald said: I absolutely don't like the Saurus Knights models, so they are not an option.🙈 Hahaha, yeah.... understandable. The cold ones look super derpy and the riders have TINY legs. They REALLY need an updated sculpt!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calebexnihilo Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Played a "casual" game vs a friend and his Nurgle forces this weekend. He brought 3 GUOs and Rotigus. I brought the PERFECT Seraphon list... Allegiance: Seraphon - Constellation: Thunder Lizard Leaders Lord Kroak (320) - Spell: Stellar Tempest Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140) - General - Command Trait: Mighty Warleader - Artefact: Fusil of Conflaguration Battleline 5 x Saurus Guard (100) 5 x Saurus Guard (100) 5 x Saurus Guard (100) Stegadon (240) - Weapon: Skystreak Bow Stegadon (240) - Weapon: Skystreak Bow Stegadon (240) - Weapon: Skystreak Bow Stegadon (240) - Weapon: Skystreak Bow Stegadon (240) - Weapon: Skystreak Bow Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs Balewind Vortex (40) Total: 2000 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 0 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolomonHelsing Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 In the Top 16 Finals ended up coming 0-3, In fact I had 2 rematches against the Eels list first, then third game against the BoC Chariots list. Frankly this was more down to myself rather than the list not being good enough. First up the eel list, at 8am on a sunday when I hadn't slept properly at all, not for lack of trying. It was Total Conquest, and he placed both boats in a right angle either side of a house to block me just moving out of my deployment area besides the back half of each side. Now it turns out he'd not known about the boats 1" from other scenery being over-ridden by the GHB 3" rule. I hadn't realised about this overhaul because obviously the seraphon one just has its own rules that don't get changed by that because it goes down first. I just couldn't get enough out to objectives to score. Plus the lack of sleep had mucked up my judgement on deployment so I could've done alot more in my first turn even if his eels in round 2 would've messed them about royally. He just got a warning from the TO for the boats error, but oh well. Second with the only new opponent, Ogor Mawtribes with a bunch of ironguts in shifting objectives, Knock on effect of feeling quite pigged off with the first game meant I wasted my 10 knight's charge on trying to get over gnoblars, which I had to go into instead, 5 survived the counter from the ironguts behind them, but I really should've kept them safe to take on one of the units of 8/9 to try wipe one fully, that would've been worth what they're for. In the end I just didn't have enough left to take on the frostlord and the ironguts left over. Did get a secondary objective and almost my second but one irongut survived. Third game agains the BoC Chariots list on Forcing the Hand. Just an absolute fight which felt nice to end on. Just didn't quite get enough chariots killed early on before the herdstone's -1 save got too big a bubble to avoid, which really helped the chariots eat through my units. The sunblood held its own against 8 chariots, taking out 3/4 on its own with the eviscerating blade. We had to talk through round 5 and yeah it looked like I couldn't claw enough points back, though I maybe would've if I'd tried the roll for the -1 save from starseer on a unit of chariots that rolled 2 5's against carnosaurs bite attack that would've cleared that unit out. It's kind of a shame the +1 to wound buff is stuck on one of the foot only saurus hero's, if I could get that buff coming from a fast moving carnosaur that would really up its usefulness, but that's probably exactly why it's there. I'm thinking I might take out the sunblood and cogs and put back in the oldblood on carnosaur. I think the charging units can survive without the extra +2 as the knights can already be on +4, and it's maybe giving more to my opponents than it is to me, And a second carnosaur with more dangerous rend 2 jaws just feels like it might have more to it, plus thinking on it, getting the knight's attacks to +2 to hit, so 2's for spears, 3's for rider jaws, might really up the first charge, compared to a +1 to wound I can't reliably get in range. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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