AoS 2 - Seraphon Discussion

[Axter]

Hey guys, i heard some rumors about  a new tome for seraphon soon, do you think is that true? 

And in case what do you think we will recieve with that? Some good buff?

[Future]

Looks fun. I’m a huge fan of runeblade -3 rend on either carno but especially the old one. The healing one on Slann can be good and the auto dispel. 

[Trav]

Ignore.

Edited February 24, 2019 by Trav
Error

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

ignore as well

Edited February 24, 2019 by TheadTheOgorSlayer
Original post I quoted erased their post so I’m erasing my post with the quote to respect their wishes

[Bryan I Guess]

Took my list to a tournament yesterday. Went 2-1 and took 4th place out of 20.

Game one against stormcast dracoth cavalry. Mission was scorched earth. Turn one he got a super lucky Star Fated Arrow and killed my Slann outright even with -2 to hit and in cover. I went aggressively with my big dinos and tore a big chunk into the core of his army but he just tore back with 4 fulminators through my back line. I got double turned and he just sort if carved through my skinks with his fulminators and camped his objectives while burning mine. Nothing I could really do.

Game 2 was against Legion of Azgorh. There really wasn't much to say about this game. My big dinos just chewed through everything he had and my rippers destroyed a 12 man unit of those fire elemental dudes.

Game 3 was amazing. Played against LoN on Battle for the Pass. He had 40 chainrasps 40 skeletons and 40 grimghasts and like 5 wolves to finish it out. We both had the same drops but he let me go first. I was able to teleport my 20 skinks in a long line in front of his army and move them to the 3" zone then teleported another squad of skinks a little ways behind on one flank so that his ghosts couldn't just fly over. Rippers tore into skeletons and I was able to score the main 3 objectives. From here he tried his best to just chew thru the skinks but I was always able to just back them up. I kept Nagash busy by always throwing something into his back line and always backing up my skink wall. It basically went skinks/big dinos/skinks and I just positioned myself so well to avoid him flying past my wall to take the back objectives. He wouldn't have needed to kill anything due to his sheer numbers but I didn't let those numbers move all game.

All in all it was fun. The Dread Saurian is not really worth it. His damage is rather swingy if you ask me and I'd rather just bring more dudes.

[Tea Rex]

On 2/21/2019 at 8:54 AM, Bryan I Guess said:

Is 3 big dinos too much?

Running this list Saturday

Allegiance: Seraphon
Slann Starmaster (260)
- General
- Trait: Great Rememberer 
Skink Starpriest (80)
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur(240)
- War Spear
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur(240)
- Greatblade
20 x Skinks (120)
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers
6 x Ripperdactyl Riders (280)
Dread Saurian (420)
Shadowstrike Starhost (180)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 109
If I get cogs turn one I get an oldblood on carnosaur turn two. If not I get a troglodon for four big dinosaurs ripping and roaring and tearing it up. From that point I want my Slann to just summon units of dudes to take objectives.

Thoughts? Ideas? Artifact suggestions?

Is this the list you ran for the above tournament?

Seems you had some good games and enjoyed yourself - you can't really ask for much more!

As for my thoughts on the 'Dread Saurian' or any other big centre piece (potentially high damage) model; often it's not the damage they actually deliver but the perceived threat and your opponents reaction or not that makes it useful. That and they look awesome!

Edited February 25, 2019 by Tea Rex
Poor spelling

[Televiper11]

Hi Everyone. I'm  relatively new to AoS and brand new to Seraphon. Am attending an Open Play event soon and this is the list I put together. Any feedback would be appreciated, thanks!

Allegiance: Seraphon
Slann Starmaster (260)
- General
- Trait: Great Rememberer 
- Artefact: Zoetic Dial 
Skink Starpriest (80)
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (160)
Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (260)
Saurus Oldblood (120)
- Suntooth Maul
- Artefact: Coronal Shield 
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One (100)
5 x Saurus Guard (90)
10 x Saurus Knights (180)
- Lances
20 x Skinks (120)
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
Troglodon (160)
Stegadon (220)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Firelance Starhost (150)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 117
 

[Bryan I Guess]

@Tea Rex That's the one.

I'm surprised. It was my first time playing Seraphon and I did better than I have in any tournament ever.

I love the Shadowstrike. I think it does everything a battalion should do for a group of units. I am thinking of dropping the Dread for a Stegadon or EotG then using the rest of the points to fill out my Skinks. Keeps three big dinos on board and it makes the Shadowstrike just that much more effective. Eventually I will build up to the Dracothian Tail with Shadowstrike mixed in. Thats what actually took 2nd at the tournament, and I am not trying to copy him or anything but its just effective and I like it.

 

 

@Televiper11 First off to run the Firelance you need to have three squads of Knights. Just switch the 5 Guards to 5 Knights and run them as 3 squads of 5 and then you'll be legal. Another thing I would suggest is giving the Slann the Incandescent Rectrices. A lot of Seraphon's action revolves around the Slann so doing whatever you can to protect them is best.

[Wilhelm Stürmer]

@Televiper11 Here are my observations:

The Oldblood on foot isn't a great hero. If you wan't an on foot melee hero, consider the Sunblood.

You won't be able to use Firelance Starhost without two more units of Knights. Typically, this is 3x of 5 Knights.

You really want more bodies. This list feels like it's trying to do too much. The Seraphon meta is summoning, which you do have a Slann for. The one unit of Skinks you have will be a good screen, but you don't have bodies to capture objectives, unless you plan to summon them in Turn 1.

Keep in mind, you can't teleport Allied units. Also, one Ballista isn't a great option. Without a Lord Ordinator (I believe that's the model), you'd need at least 2.

[Televiper11]

@Bryan I Guess / @Wilhelm Stürmer: Thank you both for your suggestions. I misread the Firelance and will make the appropriate changes.

[Wilhelm Stürmer]

@Televiper11 One other observation: The Scar-Vet on Cold One synergizes better in the Firelance Starhost Battalion, imo, due to it's Command Ability. The Scar-Vet on Carno is a solid choice as well, but it's command ability will better pair with the Oldblood on Carno, and you will need to keep the two within 15" of each other.

Also, when it comes to Allies, you have a limit of 400 pts, and you have to have 4 units of your main army to each unit of Allies.

Here's a suggestion list, based around your initial list.

Allegiance: Seraphon
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Slann Starmaster (260)
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One (100)
Skink Starpriest (80)
Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (260)
Lord-Ordinator (140)

Battleline
5 x Saurus Knights (90)
- Blades
5 x Saurus Knights (90)
- Blades
5 x Saurus Knights (90)
- Blades
40 x Skinks (240)
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers

Units
2 x Razordons (80)
2 x Razordons (80)

War Machines
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)

Battalions
Firelance Starhost (150)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 151

[Televiper11]

2 minutes ago, Wilhelm Stürmer said:

@Televiper11 One other observation: The Scar-Vet on Cold One synergizes better in the Firelance Starhost Battalion, imo, due to it's Command Ability. The Scar-Vet on Carno is a solid choice as well, but it's command ability will better pair with the Oldblood on Carno, and you will need to keep the two within 15" of each other.

Also, when it comes to Allies, you have a limit of 400 pts, and you have to have 4 units of your main army to each unit of Allies.

Here's a suggestion list, based around your initial list.

Allegiance: Seraphon
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Slann Starmaster (260)
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One (100)
Skink Starpriest (80)
Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (260)
Lord-Ordinator (140)

Battleline
5 x Saurus Knights (90)
- Blades
5 x Saurus Knights (90)
- Blades
5 x Saurus Knights (90)
- Blades
40 x Skinks (240)
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers

Units
2 x Razordons (80)
2 x Razordons (80)

War Machines
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)

Battalions
Firelance Starhost (150)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 151

Thanks for this. I thought with Open Play the ally points thing wasn't an issue?

I'd need to acquire a Lord Ordinator, another Ballista, and those Razordons in order to put the above together. Prolly can't do that in time for this first event but maybe in time for the next one. 

 

[Wilhelm Stürmer]

@Televiper11 I missed the Open Play parameter. You are correct about the Ally points then.

Again, my list is simply based around your initial list. If you want the Balista, you want the Lord Ordinator. Take the list and season it to taste. 😁

[Televiper11]

2 minutes ago, Wilhelm Stürmer said:

@Televiper11 I missed the Open Play parameter. You are correct about the Ally points then.

Again, my list is simply based around your initial list. If you want the Balista, you want the Lord Ordinator. Take the list and season it to taste. 😁

Appreciate the input. Reading over the Lord-Ordinator and, yeah, seems a must!

[Tea Rex]

Good evening all,

So I've been mulling over how to start my first ever Seraphon (and AOS) army. I've read a bit about the race, core rules and I've been playing around in the apps and I've tried to come up with a list that is not just 'competitive' but mainly easy on the wallet, good fun and has a smattering of different models (including the carnosaur/trogloden set which is my favourite - can't wait to get going on that!).

I've gone for a 1000 point list to start out as that seems a sensible place to start and I've tried my best to build it without dropping a fortune on kits at the outset.

I fully appreciate that without a Slann this list lacks a lot of the Seraphon strength / flavour that comes with magic and summoning but I will be getting a Slann when I expand and diversify beyond this initial 1000pts. However, I think a Seraphon melee focused list that doesn't rely on magic might catch a few people unawares? Maybe not.

I'm happy with the composition of the units - its just the equipment, traits and artefacts I'm not really sure about - so that's where I'd like some feedback?

Question: Saurus Knights or Saurus Warriors are they equipped with either Spears  OR Clubs in the case of warriors, or Lances OR Blades in the case of Knights or are they equipped with all of them and can switch as they require?

LEADER

Saurus Oldblood (General)

Equipment: Suntooth Maul 

Command Trait: Mighty War Leader

Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur

Equipment: Celestite War-spear

Artefact: Incandescent Retrices

BATTLELINE

Saurus Warriors (#20)

Equipment: Celestite Club, Stardrake Icon, Wardrum

Saurus Knights (#5)

Equipment: Celestite Lance, Stardrake Icon, Wardrum

Saurus Knights (#5)

Equipment: Celestite Lance, Stardrake Icon, Wardrum

Saurus Knights (#5)

Equipment: Celestite Lance, Stardrake Icon, Wardrum

BEHEMOTH

Troglodon

Total Points 990/1000 - Valid Matched Play Army

My thoughts on a battleplan would be to deploy the Oldblood with the Saurus Warriors in the centre to form a solid block/anvil, Scar-Vet on Carno with 2 units of Knights on one flank and Troglodon with final unit of Knights on the other to act as hammers? Pretty simple stuff and it can be done from two start collecting boxes which is awesome!

Cheers,

Tea-Rex

Edited February 26, 2019 by Tea Rex
Spelling

[Future]

4 hours ago, Bryan I Guess said:

Eventually I will build up to the Dracothian Tail with Shadowstrike mixed in. Thats what actually took 2nd at the tournament, and I am not trying to copy him or anything but its just effective and I like it.

 

 

Could you share that list? I tried that style 2 months ago at a tournament and lost big time, didn't pick up a single game. I decided the cost of running shadowstrike was just to high. You lose almost 1/4th of an army to gain 1 drop status. Deep strike is really whatever to me as we don't have much worth deep striking, when shadowstrike can do it better. Anyway I'd like to compare notes with that list if you don't mind.

[Future]

@Tea Rex Could be good -- alternatively you can buy the shadow strike box and make a great 1k list.

Skink Starpriest -- general
1x 6 rippers
Shadowstrike
Skinks to fill out the game
Normally I'd say a unit of 4 razordons here but you specified cheap

Also comes with carno or trog, throw that in there too! 

Edited February 26, 2019 by Future

[Wilhelm Stürmer]

@Tea Rex in answer to your question, units that have the option of carrying different weapons have to select and stick with one. Unless, there warscroll cards specifically no taste that they can take different weapons.

Knights should always have lances, to take advantage of Blazing Lances.

Warriors are on 32mm bases, so if you want a better chance to get all 20 attacks in, I'd recommend taking the Spears.

Also, I would recommend changing up your heroes to a Scar-Veteran on Cold One and an Oldblood on Carnosaur. IMO, the Oldblood on foot is one of the weakest hero's we have as his Abilities and Command Ability are not great. If you do that, I'd recommend Amberglaive for the  Oldblood on Carno. (Edit: these two hero's can be made from the Start Collecting boxes as well. The ScarVet on Cold One is a proxy, and you can find info here on how to build it.)

Edited February 27, 2019 by Wilhelm Stürmer

[Bryan I Guess]

Would an Engine of the Gods with its XD6 crushing stomps be a good bearer of the Sword of Judgement?

5 hours ago, Future said:

Could you share that list? I tried that style 2 months ago at a tournament and lost big time, didn't pick up a single game. I decided the cost of running shadowstrike was just to high. You lose almost 1/4th of an army to gain 1 drop status. Deep strike is really whatever to me as we don't have much worth deep striking, when shadowstrike can do it better. Anyway I'd like to compare notes with that list if you don't mind.

I never actually looked at his list, but I'll try and get a hold of him and ask him about his list and get back to you. Right now I'm looking at (and bear with me on the super quick list write up)

Slann

Scar vet on carno

EotG

Starpriest

3X5 knights

2X20 skinks

1X6 rippers

Dracothion

Fire lance

Shadowstrike

[Future]

That is close to what I tried -- I just don't see how it works well, it doesn't do anything well. Its subpar at board control and being killy. You never really utilize the strength of the deep strike as you already get that in shadowstrike etc. Even a 6 inch charge isn't always going to make it.

 

Speaking of shadow this is what I am running at an upcoming event

realm - Shyish

Slann - General

Skink Starpriest

Knight-Incantor

Eotg - Wraithbow artifact

Eotg - Goblet of draining

 

5x 10 Skinks

1 x 4 razordons

1 x 6 Ripperdactyls

Shadowstrike

 

Everblaze

Geminids

Quicksilver

--------------------------

The list is all about mortal wound sniping the enemy heros and taking board control with skinks.

 

Turn 1 you can fish for d6 mortal wounds from each engine OR more ripperdactyls to get extra bloat toads for your boys in the sky. In a perfect world Goblet of draining will always do d6 mortals and wraithbow is just within 18 of its target. Knight gives an auto unbind, flaks for mortal wounds, a great spell, and everblaze. Geminids is 18 inch + 8 (cast it from slann). Quick silver swords is shorter but your Starpriest runs 2d6 for Shadowstrike so you should be in range of something. Teleport razordons to take out chaff and bring the rippers down if you really need to finish off something the mortal wounds didn't.

-----

rest of game -

Geminids giving -1 to hit and starpriest giving -1 to hit can really turn an enemy unit off for the round. Eotg can go into melee if needed, otherwise its best to use their utility to fish for mortal wounds and summons. Slann will be doing slann stuff -- mostly summoning. Skinks will be going for the gold. Ripperdactyls will be dead but if you have frogs around the map summoning more in is pretty great.

[Tea Rex]

Whats the best/most optimum load-out for Skinks for the various unit sizes - and whats the purpose of them?

Edited February 27, 2019 by Tea Rex
Additional text

[Wilhelm Stürmer]

Skinks are not really combat units. They are meant to screen your Heros, especially the Slann, capture objectives, and speed bump scary enemy units from getting into combat with units you want to protect.. Make full use of Wary Fighter often. 

My suggestion for them is to have at least one big blob of 40 with Boltspitters and Shields. In fact, I've yet to see a reason not to equip shields, as it adds to their survivability. Ignore the Skink Alpha ability; Clubs shouldn't be used. In addition to the unit of 40, you should have AT LEAST one more unit of 10, but 2x 10 is better. Depending on your list, typically, the more Skinks, the better. I've seen different arguments for what to equip on your 2nd, 3rd, etc units of Skinks, but I typically go with Javelins and Shields, though I don't really have a solid reason for that.

Edit: Oh, and summon more Skinks as needed. for a 2K army, I'd say you'd need a minimum of 100 Skinks between on board and summoning.

Edited February 27, 2019 by Wilhelm Stürmer

[Bryan I Guess]

4 hours ago, Tea Rex said:

Whats the best/most optimum load-out for Skinks for the various unit sizes - and whats the purpose of them?

In my personal experience the larger the unit the more you want bolt spitters.  Mostly because it's almost impossible to get an entire 20/30/40 man unit within 8" of an enemy.

Also what Wilhelm said rings very true. Skinks aren't gonna kill much. Their main job is controlling territory.

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

5 hours ago, Tea Rex said:

Whats the best/most optimum load-out for Skinks for the various unit sizes - and whats the purpose of them?

I have found with my summoned unit s of ten that even with shields they DIE DIE DIE so I started equipping them to maximize damage and honestly with rerolls I haven’t been disappointed lol. I unit of ten with boltspitters and clubs dish out 20 attacks each combat phase and I shoot shoot shoot then if they are close to a unit that’s weakened they rush in and have enough damage to finish them off. In large squads I would go with shields and spitters tho. Also with re rolls to hit those 20 attacks did surprisingly well in my games, a full unit of ten charged and killed an ogor so I was happy 😆 I only do shields now if the summoned unit is to take an objective and I require some to live, and honestly I think we all know our best job for taking objectives is the 18 point 20 saurus (when I need a tp as well) so that’s only in games where I have no other choice due to lack of summoning points.

tldr:spitters and clubs on units of ten that you summon as they do a surprising amount of damage for weak little skink when you add re rolls to hit, I killed an ogor with a suicide charge 😂 only do this if even with shields the unit would die to what they are fighting, and as for javelin vs spitters, spitters when summoned are always in range while javelins aren’t, and javelins are weak in large units due to range, and honestly unless you are just filling out minimum battleline you should be putting 30 at least in each skink squad 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2019 by TheadTheOgorSlayer

[Future]

Yes, agreed. Bolt spitters, but I'd say it matters little enough its preference. I think 10 and 40 are the only correct answers for unit size. Since I use them for objective capturing I only do blocks of 10. With a 6 up save you aren't surviving first contact with anything. The true power in MSU sizes is retreat. 2 units of 10, 1 is guaranteed to retreat out of combat. It's real hard to get bodies off objectives.

 

In that same regard since the opponent knows they will retreat 10 isn't a juicy first round activation target but 40 is. A lot of times that 10 block will be ignored.