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AoS 2 - Seraphon Discussion


Chris Tomlin

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So what are peoples thoughts on the double shadowstrike list? Something like:

Allegiance: Seraphon
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Slann Starmaster (260)
- General
- Trait: Great Rememberer 
- Artefact: Incandescent Rectrices 
Engine of the Gods (220)
- Artefact: Doppelganger Cloak 
Skink Starpriest (80)
- Artefact: Spellmirror 
Skink Starpriest (80)

Battleline
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers

Units
6 x Ripperdactyl Riders (280)
6 x Ripperdactyl Riders (280)
3 x Salamanders (120)

Battalions
Shadowstrike Starhost (180)
Shadowstrike Starhost (180)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Quicksilver Swords (20)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 110
 

 

All about board control, reinforced with skink summoning. Very much all about objective play and using the rippers to surgically remove big threats or key characters. salamanders can be swapped for razordons or to bump a unit of rippers to 9 or for a few more endless spells like geminids. cogs are there for an extra slann spell to get 13 conjuration points a turn. Is the engine worth it?

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35 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Why run double shadowstrike? You can fit 12 Rippers in a single unit

Would be nice to have the ability to hit 2 key targets rather than just one, if they are spread out.

I do think that 360 points spent on battalions is way too much to gain that ability though.

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34 minutes ago, Drofnum said:

Would be nice to have the ability to hit 2 key targets rather than just one, if they are spread out.

I do think that 360 points spent on battalions is way too much to gain that ability though.

In an army that can teleport any unit anywhere it's not worth another 180pt. I would rather bring an Astrolith Bearer.

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So I had a game with the above list on the weekend and while it wasnt the best game of AoS ever I did learn a quite a few things. First off the setting; we played better part of valor, in chamon, with the realmscape that says ignore everyones rend. I was playing against Hosts of Slaanesh:

Keeper

20x 20 chaos warriors

20 demonettes

5 knights

5 hellstriders

demon prince

herald of slaanesh

masque

chaos lord on foot

chaos lord on steed of slaanesh

The things I found myself looking out for were fliers, teleporters, redployers and ranged/casting units as these all deal with or bypass skink screens to get to my objectives or my important characters. The only thing I need to consider is the demon prince as everything else would just hit skink walls. In addition, as soon as he commits to a flank he has no real way of helping out the opposite flank if i hit it with rippers. Sure his things move pretty fast but they can be gummed up easily by skinks.

We deploy and i  cover my central objective with two layers of skinks and the engine, slann and priests hiding in the back. The other two units of skinks each deploy on the line in front of my flank objectives, He has a unit of chaos warriors in a tower on the left covering one objective, demonettes, demon heros and knights on the central objective and the other unit of warriors with the two mortal heroes, hellstriders and demon prince on the right.

I use my shadowstrike ability to ensure skink priests are in range of the keeper for unbinding and aggressive casting and i move the flank skinks backwards so that even with a full move and 12" charge he cant complete the charge so my objectives are safe. Im not sure any of this was really necessary as the slann can unbind from anywhere and  the skinks could have just deployed more defensively but I figure anything you can do to keep your opponent guessing is good. I also need to get into the habit of remembering these things as they can be really useful for gaining board presence from the get go.

Since he has no real way of doing anything to me turn 1 and  the threat of the rippers means he mostly has to stay at home to protect his objectives I give him first turn. He moves up the right flank with the demon prince and hellstriders and moves the keeper from the center to the right as well. On my turn 1 I place a toad on each of his flank objectives. The engine gives me a unit of 20 skinks. I fail to cast cogs but do get the quicksilver swords which goes right down the center and takes 4 wounds off his keeper. Slann generates 10 summoning points but holds on to them for this turn. One unit of skinks fails to teleport but the salamanders succeed and can move after so they go to the left flank by the warriors in the tower. At this point Ive decided to take on the warriors in the tower, even though they have a 3+ save thanks to cover they do not have a hero nearby so are susceptible to battleshock. Skinks move for some defensive geometry to stop his stuff hitting my characters and objectives if he gets the turn. The engine is nice for anchoring a gap next to some skinks because of his doppelganger cloak. Skink shooting puts a couple more wounds onto the keeper but the salamanders do nothing to the warriors. Here the battalion was nice again as 20 of the skinks shooting at the keeper could reroll hits and wounds of 1 and the 20 summoned skinks could reroll hits of 1 thanks to the constellation i rolled. Rippers dropped and charged the warriors as did the salamanders just to get more bodies within 6" of the objective.  Rippers kill 11 warriors, lose one in return and battle shock off the rest so I claim that objective. I burn my home objective on my right flank for one point so that everything he committed on that side now needs to head back to the centre.

He wins priority and takes the turn which means I get the quicksilver swords and kill his keeper. He makes his stand here committing everything forward to try and take my central objective leaving his two home ones with the intention of burning them. He attacks nothing but skinks, doesnt actually manage to finish any off before they run away and doesnt get my objective but still burns his two. In my turn I burn my 3 and we call the game there.

 

So to address a few of the well made points above;

1) its not worth 360 points for two dropping units of rippers, maybe better to have one big unit of rippers and spend the extra points elsewhere. Id say you would need to look at what that 180 battalion cost gets you. First off an extra artifact and an extra command point. Well the third artifact (spell mirror) is nice but didnt do anything and it wont matter for relocation orb or places of arcane power as the hero using it is already a wizard. But if I replace the battalion ill be able to afford another character that could use the artifact but wont have a 3rd artifact available. Of course that other character will bring something else to the army....

The command point is always useful, even though I dont have great command abilities I find that having that guaranteed 6" to run or battle shock immunity is very comfortable.

The other bonuses of the battalion are in skink movement and in skink offensive. The boost to skink offense is quaint... Plinking a couple of wounds off a character or using them to open up a screen is nice but "dont ever expect your skinks to do any damage and they,ll never disappoint you" is my motto. The movement though, this is a huge bonus. Move your priests out of unbind range, move your skinks into the middle of the board to grab objectives turn 1, moving your skinks out to screen from stormcast drops, deepkin drops, sylvaneth tree placement etc. 40 skinks moving 2d6 before the game can cover a lot of area and stop an alpha strike if done correctly.

The other thing the battalion brings is less drops. Having the option of going first or second with this army is really nice as it could allow you to get a lot more mileage out of the rippers can can make a very difficult first turn for your opponent; keep your castle and lose board control or move out and potentially expose yourself. Having the second ripper battalion allows you to force that choice even after the first unit of rippers has come down and you get an extra toad so you are not confined to a single part of the board.

Ultimately I like the second battalion and find it worth its points but its a fundamentally different army than the single shadowstrike. It forces different decisions and requires a different set up and play style.

2) we end up without any board presence. I think we start with a huge amount of board presence and control. 40 skinks that get a pregame move covers a lot of space with a guaranteed 10 more from some slann summoning combo'd with the ripper threat which encourages castling and two unit teleport to get almost anything almost anywhere. its a decently low drop army so i think you'll often find that you can go first, grab a lot of board space and then slowly give it up skink unit by skink unit. I have found putting summoned starlight on a unit of skinks and retreating from fights makes them surprisingly long lasting. Ive been thinking of comboing this with some endless spells to also take up board space.  Basically the idea is to get out there early, score your points and then die off slowly. Not super reliable but it does make for some fun and tense games.

3)no means to go through screens. Yeah this can be a tough one. Skink shooting isnt reliable enough, neither is damage from the engine. I was considering changing the salamanders to razordons to teleport and shoot screens or dropping them for endless spells for damage and less drops. Not ideal as id end up giving up summoning points on the slann. I guess the main comfort is that the rippers can fly so you have to set up screens in a more careful way than for standard units. And i suppose if your opponent is just castling behind their screens their movement and board control is limited so the rippers are doing part of their job.

In conclusion I dont think the game I played above is very representative of competitive play, a lot of stuff went my way (him deploying without a character near his one unit, quicksilver swords at max power, him not having any movement shenanigans or shooting, a scenario which can be won very early and punishes mistakes harshly). More testing is required but I certainly like the feel of the army and will be continuing with for the next while.

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@Skinnyboy while you are correct about the non comp game thingy, as your opponent made a choice that made no sense in the 2nd round for example, your conclusions are on the spot.

2 Shadowstrike army is indeed totally different than 1, we do end up without any board presence, screens are a big problem and as you said, the 2nd batallion doesn't really worth it cause we lack the man power and the survivability. Not for end game anyway. It is really good and still makes a strong list.

Great rep, looking forward for more !

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Hi guys, does the Saurus Oldbloods command ability work on itself?

It mentions that ANY Saurus hero will benefit within 20" so I believe it will, my thoughts were to add 2 more attacks to the claws to get a better chance of being able to hit on 2+ for the Jaws attacks 

 

Also looked to build a list off of the new Serephon box. 

 

Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur - General, thick scaley hide,  incandescent rectrices

Skink Starpriest 

Saurus Eternity Warden

 

15 Saurus Guard

20 Skinks

3 Ripperdactyls 

3 Terradon (sunleech)

 

Bastilodon

 

1410 pts Vanguard list

 

I've never playeds seraphon, thought about it before and got some great advice here but I never took the leap as at the time my son was thinking about it and now he's not too sure but the new boxed set was too good to pass up.

I prefer the look of the Rippers to Terradons but I wanted to see how the Terradons play before writing them off. Wanted to make the Carnosaur a bit of a tank to go take out monsters too way the choices there

 

Edited by TeddyMadeMeDoIt
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8 minutes ago, Calebexnihilo said:

Seraphon FAQ updates:

Banner - changed to wholly within. No clarification on planting. Assume it can move! 

 

 

There is a clarification on planting actually. The faq completely replaces the rules text for the ability.   There is now no mention of the astrolith anywhere on the warscroll, except that "It carries [it]".  Which is what we really have been playing it as for 6 months.   

2 more inches of range on the Proud Defiance ability.  Basically this means you will choose to attack with fewer models in a big block and stay within 12" as opposed to spreading that block out to get as many attacks in as possible. 

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On ‎12‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 2:40 AM, Seraphage said:

@HammerOfSigmar well let us be honest : Heavenswatch was badly made to be honest and needs total rework to be viable.

And maybe they will update us soon and thus are waiting for this ! 😎

 

I liked it for taking max bastiladons. lol

But ever since the Starseer got nerfed into the ground, it has been hard to justify taking it. Basically 380 point tax for heals.

Needed fixing not deleting. Hopefully this points towards a new battletome as some have suggested.

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On ‎12‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 7:45 AM, Archkyrie11 said:

GW finally gave us an official size for the Dreadsaurian base (ofcourse right after i buy the biggest one from them thats not large enough) so I was wondering what do people use to make their base for the Dread since i need to go that route now.

No clue... I can't find a 280 mm anywhere. Going to contact one of the MDF base makers on ebay and see if they will do a 280. It is way to big for realistic play though... 

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I would suggest 3d printed but most hobby 3d printers do not have a bed that large. 

I don't think anyone is playing this model super competitively, just put it on whatever base you want. if someone you're playing at a store or something complains, have a cardboard or plastic cutout to sit it on...

That way, you have a reasonable sized base for basing, and for displaying ( unless you like just having 1 model per shelf)

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So I’ve been playing a lot of AOS competitive lists lately and I think I’ve come upon the most competitive list I can think of  - I need to play test it but it’s something like this:

 

slann starmaster x1    General       260

artefact- incandescent retricies

Trait - great rememberer

 

saurus astrolith bearer                     160

engine of the gods                                 220

engine of the gods                                 220

engine of the gods                                220

 

skinks ( all pipes and shields)

10x                                                    60

10x                                                    60

10x                                                    60

30x                                                      180

30x                                                      180

rippers x 6                                       280

Razordon                                        60

Endless spells - balewind vortex x 40

 

1980/ 2000

Plan to test it against nurgle, dOK hordes and LoN with reaper blobs 

 

will give bat reps soon 

 

Edited by etlm1987
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11 hours ago, Scrags said:

I was worried Engine of the Gods spam would be a thing but it makes sense. Are rippers still pulling their weight post FAQ?

Rippers got more reliable with the change, if you ask me. Each hit causes 1-3 wound rolls, which you reroll if attacking on your turn? Yes, please!

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23 minutes ago, TeddyMadeMeDoIt said:

Skink starpriest ability to double damage for any SERAPHON with bite or jaws attack I can't see any reason why we cant apply that to Carnosaurs massive jaws attack making it D3 to D6 - can we do this? Have people been playing it like that?

Doubling a D3 makes it D3x2, not D6. 

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