GM_Monkey Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 On 10/5/2018 at 12:00 PM, DionTheWanderer said: Question: is there ever a circumstance under which you’d use precise shots rather than fast shots for a waywatcher? I use precise shot if there is a -1 to hit debuff so there is no way I'm gonna to get any extra shots. So in the Tzeentch game I played the Lord of change had a -1 to hit combat trait and I had to move my waywatcher so I thought in that case it was better to roll the precise shot and hope for an additional -1 rend. However the other 3 times they fired where all rapid shot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overtninja Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 I'm trying to scheme out my wanderers army now that I've got my models again, but before I start painting all my dudes I'd like to ask - If I take a pile of Sylvaneth as allies, is it possible to get a Sylvaneth Wildwood as well as part of the force, or would I have to do something like take a Treelord Ancient and summon it in? I'm thinking that having a Wildwood to start with is part of the Sylvaneth allegiance ability, but previously you could pay some points for them (last edition I believe). Ideally, I'd like to field a big pile of Dryads (because I have a ton from being a WFB WE player) and a Branchwraith to summon more from the woods, but if that's not possible from the outset I'd be better served with a different roster of Sylvaneth allies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aezeal Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 17 hours ago, overtninja said: I'm trying to scheme out my wanderers army now that I've got my models again, but before I start painting all my dudes I'd like to ask - If I take a pile of Sylvaneth as allies, is it possible to get a Sylvaneth Wildwood as well as part of the force, or would I have to do something like take a Treelord Ancient and summon it in? I'm thinking that having a Wildwood to start with is part of the Sylvaneth allegiance ability, but previously you could pay some points for them (last edition I believe). Ideally, I'd like to field a big pile of Dryads (because I have a ton from being a WFB WE player) and a Branchwraith to summon more from the woods, but if that's not possible from the outset I'd be better served with a different roster of Sylvaneth allies. Pay points and get a TLA for his 4+ ability would both be needed. So that won't fit with a big unit of Dryads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origin Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 @overtninja I'd look at using the Living City Allegiance over the Wanderers Allegiance. You still get a teleport of sorts, and you can include more Slyvaneth units. It could make for a cool army. Might consider doing it myself actually.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overtninja Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 @Origin Thanks for the answers, guys! Running the army as a Living City force might work pretty well - I could beef out my melee with additional Kurnoths without worrying about alliance limits, which would also be neat. Could be fun to tool around with. @Aezael I charted out a list with an Ancient, a Branchwraith, and ten Dryads as allies; while I'd miss the 4+ save for having lots of dryads in one unit, If I can drop the forest early I could potentially churn out 10 Dryads a turn, and have a dumb huge woods in the middle of the field that threatens wounds and blocks LoS. Might be a fun thing to try, actually, especially given how awful Wildwoods are to be in or move through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overtninja Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) @Origin @Aezeal meant to @ you both but I botched the attribution. :s I think that if you were to make a list that was really heavy with Sylvaneth, the Living City Allegiance would be good, but both Sylvaneth and Wanderers Allegiances give you much better stuff (notably access to artifacts, actually good command abilities, and in the Sylvaneth's case, a spell lore). It would be cool if you were going for a truly composite force, using dwarf cannons and stormcast dudes and whatever, but for just mixing the two it feels a bit lackluster - the main draw is being able to combine so many different factions into the same force, giving you all the advantages of using the most appealing warscrolls from all over. Edited October 9, 2018 by overtninja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightcast Eternal Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 On 9/26/2018 at 7:38 PM, DionTheWanderer said: Just had a chastening experience against a SCE list. 3 objectives, 1 in each zone 1 in the middle. Opponent was very nice and sporting, and if anything was unlucky in his dice rolls compared to me. What was frustrating was that from early on it was clear I wasn’t even going to be able to defend one objective, let alone take another. I had 20 EG in cover on my objective, with SOT (about half the time). Got off full unit of 30 GG bodkins plus Hail of Doom on his sequitors, with nomad prince buffing almost all my units. Killed 5/10. Got my WWR into charge and wiped out his Vanguard Palladors, but they were wiped out on a counter charge. Nomad prince and waystrider didn’t cause a wound before getting wiped. Basically, it felt like even though I was getting all the buffs I could be, I just had nothing that could go toe-to-toe with any of his units, in either shooting or combat phases. It was mad. Any thoughts? Maybe I could have gone after his heroes to reduce the buffs on his armour etc, but then my alpha strikes would be gone, and their regular armour makes most shooting pretty useless. I’m also struggling to use maneouverability at all well - when you can only realm wander 1 unit per turn it’s not like you can suddenly flank with a viable group of units, and no one unit in the army is strong enough to threaten even one unit of their battle line troops. Any thoughts? Army lists below for reference: Mine: Nomad Prince (Starcaster, Hidden Paths) Waystrider Wayfinder Waywatcher 2x spellweaver (endless spells: shackles + pendulum) 30GG 20EG 5SoT 10WWR SCE: ++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Order - Stormcast Eternals) [1500pts] ++ + Leader + Knight-Zephyros [100pts]: 1. Blade of Symmetry Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-charger [240pts]: 2. Aethereal Stalker, 4. Azyrite Halo, 5. Staunch Defender, General Lord-Castellant [100pts] + Artillery + Celestar Ballista [100pts] + Battleline + Judicators [160pts]: 5 Judicators, Skybolt Bow Judicators [160pts]: 5 Judicators, Skybolt Bow Sequitors [240pts]: 2x 5 Sequitors, 4x Stormsmite Greatmace, Stormsmite Greatmace (Sequitor-Prime), Tempest Blade and Soulshield + Other + Evocators [200pts]: 2. Celestial Blades, 5 Evocators, Grandstave, 4x Tempest Blade and Stormstave Vanguard-Palladors [200pts]: 3 Vanguard-Palladors, Starstrike Javelin + Allegiance + Allegiance: Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals + Game Options + Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost + Realm of Origin + Realm of Origin: Origin: Hysh ++ Total: [1500pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net) It can be sort of cheese, but I have 100 Glade Guard and bring two units of 40 for every game. The bodkins just delete some big monster. Then I use some of the teleport-like artefacts and abilities to move a big block of 30 Eternal Guard to other table edges. The enemy has to deal with them, but I'll pop their fortress of boughs and they do last a bit. Also if they get on an objective, I can just sit them there with a Mystic Shield, and they are pretty survivable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM_Monkey Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 10 hours ago, Nightcast Eternal said: It can be sort of cheese, but I have 100 Glade Guard and bring two units of 40 for every game. The bodkins just delete some big monster. Then I use some of the teleport-like artefacts and abilities to move a big block of 30 Eternal Guard to other table edges. The enemy has to deal with them, but I'll pop their fortress of boughs and they do last a bit. Also if they get on an objective, I can just sit them there with a Mystic Shield, and they are pretty survivable Hey man, unfortunately the max is a block of 30 glade guard. Also Mystic Shield on Glade Guard is pointless as they already had a re-roll 1s from there shield. But if you have the Sisters of the Thorn then Shield of Thorns is really worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightcast Eternal Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 11 hours ago, GM_Monkey said: Hey man, unfortunately the max is a block of 30 glade guard. Also Mystic Shield on Glade Guard is pointless as they already had a re-roll 1s from there shield. But if you have the Sisters of the Thorn then Shield of Thorns is really worth it. Yeah good point! I usually play big open play games in my gaming group. We just balance by points, so I wasn't thinking about that. But isn't it the Eternal Guard that have the shields, the Glade Guard have the bodkins and rerolls to hit. But yeah, Sisters of Thorn spell would be pretty great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DionTheWanderer Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 23 hours ago, Nightcast Eternal said: It can be sort of cheese, but I have 100 Glade Guard and bring two units of 40 for every game. The bodkins just delete some big monster. Then I use some of the teleport-like artefacts and abilities to move a big block of 30 Eternal Guard to other table edges. The enemy has to deal with them, but I'll pop their fortress of boughs and they do last a bit. Also if they get on an objective, I can just sit them there with a Mystic Shield, and they are pretty survivable How in heaven’s name did you have the patience to paint 100 glade guard? I did 32 in one go and nearly quit the hobby as a result! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightcast Eternal Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 2 hours ago, DionTheWanderer said: How in heaven’s name did you have the patience to paint 100 glade guard? I did 32 in one go and nearly quit the hobby as a result! I've had them for a long time. I just really love the sculpts, they aren't technically but are of my favorites in the game. I also used lots of variation. Most of my army is quite dark green. So are the glade guard, mostly. I painted sections of 20 in different styles. One group has brown tunics. Another has grey/tan cloaks, and others with moss greens on their pants or cloaks. I also played around with skin tones and weaponry (metallics, and bow colors). So each 10-20 models were different. I also broke it up with other projects like kitbashing and basing some cool Mordheim warbands and also building tons of terrain. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloth_Corfiser Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 8 hours ago, DionTheWanderer said: How in heaven’s name did you have the patience to paint 100 glade guard? I did 32 in one go and nearly quit the hobby as a result! When I was frustrated about my first Glade Guard I bought Sisters of the Watch, then I glued the next Unit of GG together in one day and now I love them ❤️ Will just have to paint all my Units at some point though. 5 hours ago, Nightcast Eternal said: I've had them for a long time. I just really love the sculpts, they aren't technically but are of my favorites in the game. I also used lots of variation. Most of my army is quite dark green. So are the glade guard, mostly. I painted sections of 20 in different styles. One group has brown tunics. Another has grey/tan cloaks, and others with moss greens on their pants or cloaks. I also played around with skin tones and weaponry (metallics, and bow colors). So each 10-20 models were different. I also broke it up with other projects like kitbashing and basing some cool Mordheim warbands and also building tons of terrain. That sounds really cool. To see them fully arrayed would be awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MirageFive Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 (edited) I have a ton of Wanderers sprues laying around and am wondering what you all would recommend gluing first and what you'd add: 3 Waywatcher Lords 1 Waystrider 1 Wayfinder 1 Spellweaver 1 Spellsinger (an older model I intend to use as a second Spellweaver) 60 Glade Guard 50 Eternal Guard / Wildwood Rangers 20 Wild Riders / Sisters of the Thorn I definitely intend to purchase a Nomad Prince. I don't own any Sisters of the Watch. I'm thinking about gluing the 50 Eternal Guard / Ranger sprues as 30 EG and 20 Rangers. I'm not sure I even intend to assemble the Wild Riders or Sisters of the Thorn right now, as I'm not really impressed by either profile. I'm thinking of running something like this at 2000: Nomad Prince Spellweaver 2x30 Glade Guard 30 Eternal Guard 2x10 Wildwood Rangers Total - 1390 As you can see, this still leaves a ton of points. Should I consider adding Sisters of the Watch? Or perhaps there are other Allies I could really benefit from? Thanks in advance! Edited October 18, 2018 by MirageFive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM_Monkey Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 29 minutes ago, MirageFive said: I'm thinking of running something like this at 2000: Nomad Prince Spellweaver 2x30 Glade Guard 30 Eternal Guard 2x10 Wildwood Rangers Total - 1390 As you can see, this still leaves a ton of points. Should I consider adding Sisters of the Watch? Or perhaps there are other Allies I could really benefit from? Thanks in advance! Get sisters of the watch, the more I use them as a block of 20 the more I like them, I actually volleyed a charge of 10 Dryads off due to their loose until last ability. Also you might want to stick your waywatchers into that list. Personnally I would think about running small groups of Eternal guard, maybe a 20 and a 10 just to give you more flexiblity in objective holding. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelfric Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 I just watched the latest "Warhammer Weekly" show and towards the end Wanderers came up and Vince seemed to suggest that there is no limit on the number of attacks a Waywatcher can generate. I immediately pored over the Core rulebook and the Handbook and can find nothing equivalent to the old rule of one. Is it there and I just can't find it or can the Waywatcher generate extra hits from the extra hits now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM_Monkey Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, Aelfric said: I just watched the latest "Warhammer Weekly" show and towards the end Wanderers came up and Vince seemed to suggest that there is no limit on the number of attacks a Waywatcher can generate. I immediately pored over the Core rulebook and the Handbook and can find nothing equivalent to the old rule of one. Is it there and I just can't find it or can the Waywatcher generate extra hits from the extra hits now? Sorry I gave the wrong answer here, you already mention the rule of one. I don't know where it is in the new rules actually, all I could find was the old rule. Edited October 19, 2018 by GM_Monkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcprowlington Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 1 hour ago, GM_Monkey said: Sorry I gave the wrong answer here, you already mention the rule of one. I don't know where it is in the new rules actually, all I could find was the old rule. Page 14, of the core rules:" Lastly, any extra attacks, hit rolls or wound rolls gained by the use of an ability cannot themselves generate extra attacks, hit rolls or wound rolls. For example, if a hit roll of 6 or more allows you to make 1 extra attack, this extra attack could not generate further attacks should you roll another 6+" Quote just watched the latest "Warhammer Weekly" show and towards the end Wanderers came up and Vince seemed to suggest that there is no limit on the number of attacks a Waywatcher can generate. This actually seems to have spawned a little argument in the wanderers group on facebook. Apparently some people always considered it possible to generate endless attacks due to the rule in the book that says warscrolls override core rules (yeah...i don't get it either) Seems clear as day to me. hits generated by the ability can not generate further hits. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelfric Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 10 hours ago, Mcprowlington said: Page 14, of the core rules:" Lastly, any extra attacks, hit rolls or wound rolls gained by the use of an ability cannot themselves generate extra attacks, hit rolls or wound rolls. For example, if a hit roll of 6 or more allows you to make 1 extra attack, this extra attack could not generate further attacks should you roll another 6+" This actually seems to have spawned a little argument in the wanderers group on facebook. Apparently some people always considered it possible to generate endless attacks due to the rule in the book that says warscrolls override core rules (yeah...i don't get it either) Seems clear as day to me. hits generated by the ability can not generate further hits. Thanks. I was pretty sure it was there and have always played the rule, just wanted to double-check following the implication on Warhammer Weekly. There's no wording on the Waywatcher warscroll that overrides the rule, so I'm not sure how people can interpret it any other way. Confusion over, back to normality. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightcast Eternal Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 On 10/18/2018 at 11:31 AM, MirageFive said: I have a ton of Wanderers sprues laying around and am wondering what you all would recommend gluing first and what you'd add: 3 Waywatcher Lords 1 Waystrider 1 Wayfinder 1 Spellweaver 1 Spellsinger (an older model I intend to use as a second Spellweaver) 60 Glade Guard 50 Eternal Guard / Wildwood Rangers 20 Wild Riders / Sisters of the Thorn I definitely intend to purchase a Nomad Prince. I don't own any Sisters of the Watch. I'm thinking about gluing the 50 Eternal Guard / Ranger sprues as 30 EG and 20 Rangers. I'm not sure I even intend to assemble the Wild Riders or Sisters of the Thorn right now, as I'm not really impressed by either profile. I'm thinking of running something like this at 2000: Nomad Prince Spellweaver 2x30 Glade Guard 30 Eternal Guard 2x10 Wildwood Rangers Total - 1390 As you can see, this still leaves a ton of points. Should I consider adding Sisters of the Watch? Or perhaps there are other Allies I could really benefit from? Thanks in advance! I would add some Sisters of the Thorn like maybe 2 units of 10. I think that gives them a bonus to cast rolls. An their spell have be really good on that big block of Eternal Guard. So use the artefacts/ command traits that give you teleporty abilities, and get the Eternal Guard on an objective. Pop their fortress of boughs ability and the Sisters of the Thorn spell. and they really won't move! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martsb Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 18 hours ago, Aelfric said: Thanks. I was pretty sure it was there and have always played the rule, just wanted to double-check following the implication on Warhammer Weekly. There's no wording on the Waywatcher warscroll that overrides the rule, so I'm not sure how people can interpret it any other way. Confusion over, back to normality. Vince Venturella Because right now there isn't. It's a strange rules loophole. Right now, the core rules have a rule that says additional attacks can't generate new additional attacks. Easy enough. Unfortunately, there is also a rule, clarified in the FAQ, that individual warscrolls over rule the core rules. So since the warscroll doesn't have a limit on generating additional attacks and just says - this is what happens, it technically over writes the base warscroll. Again, it's a bit silly and they should fix this (there are others besides the waywatcher), but it's technically the case right now. I asked him, don't what to think..... RÉPONDRE Masquer les réponses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martsb Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 Just now, Martsb said: Vince Venturella Because right now there isn't. It's a strange rules loophole. Right now, the core rules have a rule that says additional attacks can't generate new additional attacks. Easy enough. Unfortunately, there is also a rule, clarified in the FAQ, that individual warscrolls over rule the core rules. So since the warscroll doesn't have a limit on generating additional attacks and just says - this is what happens, it technically over writes the base warscroll. Again, it's a bit silly and they should fix this (there are others besides the waywatcher), but it's technically the case right now. I asked him, don't what to think..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM_Monkey Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 4 hours ago, Nightcast Eternal said: I would add some Sisters of the Thorn like maybe 2 units of 10. I think that gives them a bonus to cast rolls. An their spell have be really good on that big block of Eternal Guard. So use the artefacts/ command traits that give you teleporty abilities, and get the Eternal Guard on an objective. Pop their fortress of boughs ability and the Sisters of the Thorn spell. and they really won't move! Wow, 880 points for 20 Sister of the Thorn, I would really not go for this. I find sister so poor at everything other then casting that I'm really find it difficult to even take 5 at the moment. Obviously wants so good about wanderers is we do have a choice so we can go with different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelfric Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Martsb said: Vince Venturella Because right now there isn't. It's a strange rules loophole. Right now, the core rules have a rule that says additional attacks can't generate new additional attacks. Easy enough. Unfortunately, there is also a rule, clarified in the FAQ, that individual warscrolls over rule the core rules. So since the warscroll doesn't have a limit on generating additional attacks and just says - this is what happens, it technically over writes the base warscroll. Again, it's a bit silly and they should fix this (there are others besides the waywatcher), but it's technically the case right now. I asked him, don't what to think..... RÉPONDRE Masquer les réponses I'm sorry but I can't see the technicality at all. The wording seems clear enough. The Waywatcher warscroll allows extra hits on hit rolls of 6 or more; the basic rule says if an ability allows you to gain an extra attack, this attack cannot generate extra attacks. There is no wording on the Waywatcher warscroll that overides the basic core rule. You cannot simply say it does because it doesn't say you can't. For a warscroll ability to override the core rules, it has to have specific wording that tells you it does, such as this unit can run and charge in the same turn. That's what override means. All the Waywatcher is allowed to do is generate extra hits from his Fast Shots, that's it: after that the core rule applies. I could also argue that the Waywatcher ability only applies to fast shots and, technically, any extra attacks generated are not classified as fast shots, simply attacks, and therefore are not eligible to generate extra attacks themselves. It really doesn't need an FAQ, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozenbeast Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Aelfric said: I'm sorry but I can't see the technicality at all. The wording seems clear enough. The Waywatcher warscroll allows extra hits on hit rolls of 6 or more; the basic rule says if an ability allows you to gain an extra attack, this attack cannot generate extra attacks. There is no wording on the Waywatcher warscroll that overides the basic core rule. You cannot simply say it does because it doesn't say you can't. For a warscroll ability to override the core rules, it has to have specific wording that tells you it does, such as this unit can run and charge in the same turn. That's what override means. All the Waywatcher is allowed to do is generate extra hits from his Fast Shots, that's it: after that the core rule applies. I could also argue that the Waywatcher ability only applies to fast shots and, technically, any extra attacks generated are not classified as fast shots, simply attacks, and therefore are not eligible to generate extra attacks themselves. It really doesn't need an FAQ, I think all this is referring to the fact that the description of the ability does not include a line stating "you cannot generate attacks more than once when using this ability". Although I tend to agree with what you guys are saying; the core rules state that attacks generating by an ability cannot themselves generate further attacks. I think that the simple fact that the CORE RULE specify that an ABILITY cannot be triggered more than once it is already enought for it to be an FAQ whithin the rule. By nature you cannot have an attack generating other attacks unless you have an ABILITY stating so. The ABILITY in this case is Fast Shot. Even if Warscrolls over rule by nature the CORE RULES, in this case the RULE is saying that an ABILITY (even if in a warscroll) cannot trigger more than once ("an attakc sequence generated by an ABILITY cannot itself generate another attack sequence"). So it might seem a strange loophole but it is not. As already mantioned an ABILITY over ruling a CORE RULE would be "this unit can run and still charge in the same turn" as the CORE rule states that if a unit ran in the movement phase it cannot then charge later on, an the ABILITY says that specific unit can . Edited October 20, 2018 by Frozenbeast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozenbeast Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 This is what I am referring to. It does not say "attacks (as a general enity) cannot generat other attacks", it says "attacks generated by an ABILITY cannot generate other attacks". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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