AoS 2 - Wanderers Discussion

[overtninja]

@Nadurebaile I think that commentary is from the last FAQ review before this one, because people were asking about them. They've changed their minds about it since then, clearly, especially considering that general consensus is that Wild Riders aren't worth using unless you use 2 groups of 5 for the battalion. With rerolls on a 5+ and a 10' move, they can hold objectives in cover with a bit more confidence, or even mix it up in combat a bit. They aren't too expensive for what they do, and being able to scoot around and take objectives later with a decent movement speed is pretty solid.

[GM_Monkey]

I think they took the movement down to try and keep the points value the same. Not that it effects them much as they can run and charge, so still a pretty massive movement range.

[Aelfric]

8 hours ago, Nadurebaile said:

Am I a conspiracy theorist?

We are all conspiracy theorists  

[Erosharcos]

Has anyone ever tried spamming sisters of the watch? Since our Wanderers of mortal realms can only cheese to be viable, I thought up a list. 

200 waystone pathfinders battalion. 

Nomad prince - 80

Spell Weaver - 100

Waywatcher (General) - 120

Waystrider - 80

Wayfinder - 100

20 SOTW - 360

20 SOTW - 360

10 SOTW - 180

10 SOTW - 180 

5 Wild Riders- 120 

5 Wild Riders - 120

TOTAL: 2,000

Wounds: 105

The sisters alone can dish out 28-29 wounds when moving before saves (56-57 if stationary) 84 - 86 in a turn if you can get them all in range to shoot with Protective Volley, and no Lord of the Deepwood Host buff (gives you around 5 additional wounds moving, 10 stationary, so around 96 wounds before saves when buffed). Numbers in this paragraph are based on ALL sisters, 56 regular sisters, 4 high sisters who make 2 attacks when shooting. 

Seems powerful on paper, anyone have any actual experience with this list? 

[Gwill_of_the_Woods]

17 hours ago, Nadurebaile said:

In the designers commentary they say the shields have no rules. This is either a mistake (most likely) or a small leak indicating a wanderers review, hopefully of the same scale as beasts of chaos (much less likely, but historically beastmen and wood elves were pitched as antagonists, so it isn't bonkers.) Also unlikely is a review of all shielded units that have them optionally for no disadvantage, as that's a lot of work for minutiae.

I'm wondering if similar unexpected small adjustments were given to beastmen before the tome dropped.

Am I a conspiracy theorist?

I noticed that comment in the designers commentary too, seemed a little contradictory.

It would be easy to do a small Wanderers battletome launch.

Avatar of the hunt model, some type of stag lord, extra battalion that is Wild Hunt based, some type of realm specific theme like the enclaves etc.

Forest Dragon? I don't know?!

I really don't understand the logic behind re-rolling save rolls of 1 = -2" movement ...but in saying that I didn't understand the allegiance ability nerf. Apparently, my pure Asrai brain just can't comprehend these decisions!

With regards to the Beatmen/Wood Elf rivalry, apparently there is a faction of Beastmen that stalk the Realm-roots hunting Wanderers. (Just saying, we're in the lore. Plus, we are featured in more lore with Prince Maesa).

Also, YES!!! ...you probably are a conspiracy theorist. But damn I love a good conspiracy!  

[adreal]

I dunno if it's a major thing for people but shooting attacks outside of the shooting phase cannot use special abilities, like shooting twice if not moving (sisters)

[GM_Monkey]

14 hours ago, Gwill_of_the_Woods said:

....

I really don't understand the logic behind re-rolling save rolls of 1 = -2" movement ...but in saying that I didn't understand the allegiance ability nerf. Apparently, my pure Asrai brain just can't comprehend these decisions!

...

Thinking about it now, (and also because I've started an Eldar 40k army) I think it was linked to the 40k rules change on Alpha strikes and the whole fact they are unfun. I think the Wanderers were really the only faction in AoS who could continuly reposition all the time, and I believe they felt it wasn't a good mechanism.

However they really didn't put any effect into making into better just nurfed it into the ground.

[DionTheWanderer]

12 hours ago, adreal said:

I dunno if it's a major thing for people but shooting attacks outside of the shooting phase cannot use special abilities, like shooting twice if not moving (sisters)

Where is that coming from?

The waystone pathfinders specifically says “as if it were the shooting phase”  so I’d assume it was treated identically (shoot twice, Waywatcher can use fast shots etc). 

If that’s been FAQ’d then it’s a pretty huge nerf tbf 

 

[Gwendar]

@DionTheWandererThis rule has been in effect for quite some time, but I don't think it was officially FAQ'd until now. I thought the same thing about my Jezzails doing MW's on 6's in the hero phase shooting they get through an enginecoven due to it being worded "they can shoot as if it were the shooting phase". I was always told that because it wasn't explicitly the shooting phase, it didn't actually trigger the MW effect.

So, for example, this would hurt SotW not getting to shoot twice, but wouldn't do anything (I think) to the Waywatcher's fast\precise shots as that triggers "when a Waywatcher shoots his bow" but... even then I'm not 100% on as the last sentence says that "he cannot make fast\precise shots in the same shooting phase" which may imply that the bonus applies only in the shooting phase despite it not outright saying so. It would however most definitely prevent him from getting the +1 to hit for not moving as that bonus occurs specifically in the shooting phase.

Really I think they just need to get rid of the "as if it were X phase" wording because it causes so much confusion.

Pg. 7 of Core rules designers commentary.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Gwendar

[Gwill_of_the_Woods]

The same reasoning applies to the Sot-Watch "stand and shoot". They don't get 2 shots each if they didn't move because it is he charge phase not the shooting phase.

Or at least that's how I've been playing it.

[Nick907]

Yeah I think Glade Guard are better for spamming the "Protective Volley" ability then SoTW because the Sisters cannot shoot twice in the hero phase. 

[Kairos Tejedestinos]

On 12/20/2018 at 7:22 PM, Nick907 said:

Yeah I think Glade Guard are better for spamming the "Protective Volley" ability then SoTW because the Sisters cannot shoot twice in the hero phase. 

Not really. 30 glade guards are 10 wounds on average,20  sisters are 8,88 with -1rend. 

Edited December 23, 2018 by Kairos Tejedestinos

[GM_Monkey]

1 hour ago, Kairos Tejedestinos said:

Not really. 30 glade guards are 10 wounds on average,20  sisters are 8,88 with -1rend. 

No rend on Sister of the Watch. And 9.33 wounds before saves Glade guard are 10.34

[GM_Monkey]

So any one else notice the wanderers section has disappeared off the games workshop website, it's all been moved into Aelves. Same for the free people, have ironweld and devotes of sigmar mixed in as well.

[Kairos Tejedestinos]

1 hour ago, GM_Monkey said:

No rend on Sister of the Watch. And 9.33 wounds before saves Glade guard are 10.34

Correct. The difference is minimal. It's more about if you need more bodies (and a loss of value at 19<) or better damage output (the sisters are much better at that being able to double-tap in the shooting phase).

[Gwendar]

4 hours ago, GM_Monkey said:

So any one else notice the wanderers section has disappeared off the games workshop website, it's all been moved into Aelves. Same for the free people, have ironweld and devotes of sigmar mixed in as well.

This happened with many factions, like you said. I'd say it's more of a re-organization\cleanup of the webstore and less about anything else like most seem to think. 

[Gwill_of_the_Woods]

Just been on to the webstore, I'm going to call it that the "Aelves" get a battletome release. All of them in an Order style book.

Also, Inferno2 with Prince Maesa is available for pre-order next week! \m/ 

[Aelfric]

1 hour ago, Gwill_of_the_Woods said:

Just been on to the webstore, I'm going to call it that the "Aelves" get a battletome release. All of them in an Order style book.

Also, Inferno2 with Prince Maesa is available for pre-order next week! \m/ 

I could see the old Aelven factions apart from Darkling Covens and Wanderers being combined, but those two have their own abilities at least and it would be a bit sad for them to lose their distinctiveness.  I would prefer a book of our own, but I won't look a gift horse in the mouth if we end up as part of a compendium.

Will definitely be getting Inferno 2 when it comes out.  They need to know we care and hopefully the stories will be good.

[Gwendar]

@Gwill_of_the_Woods While I would love for that to be the reason behind it (especially since Skaven got grouped together) I doubt it's the case.

Not too crush any hopes or dreams though. I think with the success of BoC and LoN it is very likely that they continue to go that route when it comes to some tomes. I could easily see them cleaning up all the old factions and put them together into mega-tomes. I would say it would follow more along the lines of LoN so you still have some diversity when it comes to the different sub-factions\playstyles of aelves.

[Charlo]

Aelves battletome with Allegiance Abilities for the various factions in the same way the Beasts of Chaos work would be most excellent. Though there would probably be some restrictions on which Aelves can be used with what, if only to keep the High/ Dark/ Wood of old a little bit more seperate perhaps?

Would absolutely love this though, especially if it came with a few new models too.

However as others have said it's probably just to clean up the webstore a bit.

[overtninja]

Hey folks, I'm going to enter a 1.5k tournament at my local game store in a few weeks, and I'm waffling on bringing Wanderers or Sylvaneth (I've recently bought up the latter faction and could easily field a Winterleaf Dryad Carpet army with Drycha, TLA, and Branchwraith to bully all the Chaos players, but I'm not sure I want to be that guy who uses every damn forest in the store, and I'd have to build a lot of the models pretty fast).

The Wanderers list I'm thinking of bringing is:

Wayfinder for 1st-turn focus fire on a key unit and caster sniping

Nomad Prince with a Starcaster, for command ability, melee support, and being the team mascot

Spellweaver for the freebie dispel and chaperoning the WWR

WW as my general with Stalker of the Hidden Paths, for character sniping and being a menace

20 GG for the bodkins and objective camping, two groups of 10 Sisters of the Watch (best shootists in the game, especially with all the Chaos players running about), 20 Wildwood Rangers for monster chopping, and 20 Dryads because someone has to do general melee duty and I'd rather have more mobility over the EG bunker.

What do you guys think? Any suggestions for other force organizations?

[Gwill_of_the_Woods]

@overtninja Wanderer list sounds good. Let us know how you get on.

I'm always a big fan of Kurnoth hunters too, but WWR should cover their role!

[overtninja]

On 12/25/2018 at 3:56 AM, Gwill_of_the_Woods said:

@overtninja Wanderer list sounds good. Let us know how you get on.

I'm always a big fan of Kurnoth hunters too, but WWR should cover their role!

Usually I rock Kurnoth with Scythes, because people love big models with huge armor saves, but in this instance I'd prefer a swarm of infantry to take objectives and hold them from other units with superior numbers, and also be durable enough to keep it for a bit under duress. I'm much more comfortable having two 20-man infantry units, even if they aren't as tough as Kurnoth they have enough models to hold things off and the sheer press of attacks will give most units pause.

[Nick907]

On 12/23/2018 at 6:15 AM, Kairos Tejedestinos said:

Not really. 30 glade guards are 10 wounds on average,20  sisters are 8,88 with -1rend. 

No rend on Sister of the Watch but they would do better against chaos then Glade Guard.  Otherwise you are giving up 10 wounds for less range, better wound, stand and shoot, and QuickSilver Shot. All depends on how you want to play, I think I'll be moving too much to get the extra shot off, that is probably their best ability.

[Popisdead]

21 hours ago, Nick907 said:

No rend on Sister of the Watch but they would do better against chaos then Glade Guard.  Otherwise you are giving up 10 wounds for less range, better wound, stand and shoot, and QuickSilver Shot. All depends on how you want to play, I think I'll be moving too much to get the extra shot off, that is probably their best ability.

The GG are better on that -3 then the SotW are better math hammer as the game progresses.  10 Sisters are far better than .5 better than 10 GG.  If they didn't have that alpha -3 GG would be pretty much useless.