AoS 2 - Wanderers Discussion

[Gwendar]

@overtninja The objective game should be decent...Truth to be told it will probably be relatable in my mind to my mixed Skaven lists with tons of Clanrats, albeit a little more castle-y. I'll probably give it a go with only 1 block of 30 EG before investing in 30 more just to see how it functions.

Appreciate all the advice from everyone. I enjoy playing "lower tiered" armies and trying to do well with them so I look forward to getting this to work.

[Aezeal]

14 hours ago, Kramer said:

To be honest I’m just interested in wanderers as a future project but just wanted to mention the above isn’t really the case. 

Yes defensively would fully protect your hunters. (My equivalent is 2” ironguts supported by gnoblars. )But more often I try to charge my iroguts so the only one touches the opponent. Preferably on a side model. Then charge the gnoblars in so you minimise attacks into the ironguts. This even allows me to select them last as my opponent hitting my gnoblars only gives me options to open up pile in. 

Tomorrow I can draw something if that helps. It’s hard to describe the move concisely by typing on your phone  

This is a great strategy nice way to optimize your charging etc.. but it's not a thing that EG is best suited for ofcourse.

[overtninja]

15 hours ago, Kramer said:

To be honest I’m just interested in wanderers as a future project but just wanted to mention the above isn’t really the case. 

Yes defensively would fully protect your hunters. (My equivalent is 2” ironguts supported by gnoblars. )But more often I try to charge my iroguts so the only one touches the opponent. Preferably on a side model. Then charge the gnoblars in so you minimise attacks into the ironguts. This even allows me to select them last as my opponent hitting my gnoblars only gives me options to open up pile in. 

Tomorrow I can draw something if that helps. It’s hard to describe the move concisely by typing on your phone  

I understand what you're getting at, but my reasoning is that EG are rather awful if they don't activate their defensive stance for the +1 to hit, wound, and save rolls. They normally have a +5 save normally, and that won't stop anyone. You can use them as a wound shield and/or chaff, certainly, but they really shine as a defensive unit that holds objectives. If you use them otherwise, they will die very fast. That's not to say that's not a decent strategy with them, but I've had the most luck with them bunkering down on an objective and holding the line against everything that doesn't dish out mortal wounds.

[Kramer]

14 minutes ago, overtninja said:

I understand what you're getting at, but my reasoning is that EG are rather awful if they don't activate their defensive stance for the +1 to hit, wound, and save rolls. They normally have a +5 save normally, and that won't stop anyone. You can use them as a wound shield and/or chaff, certainly, but they really shine as a defensive unit that holds objectives. If you use them otherwise, they will die very fast. That's not to say that's not a decent strategy with them, but I've had the most luck with them bunkering down on an objective and holding the line against everything that doesn't dish out mortal wounds.

 

1 hour ago, Aezeal said:

This is a great strategy nice way to optimize your charging etc.. but it's not a thing that EG is best suited for ofcourse.

Oh they won't shine at all. But If you're looking for opportunities to use the 3" range on the Kurnoth Scythes. Their is more possible than only defensively. Just thought I would throw it in there  

[Dead_Duardin]

Wanderers list I want to try

Leaders

Waywatcher

General - Masterful Hunter

Viridescent Shawl

Wayfinder

Wayfinder

Spellweaver

Nomad Prince

Forget-me-knot

Knight Incantor - ally

Battleline

10 Glade guard

10 Glade Guard

10 Glade Guard

10 Sisters of the Watch

Other

5 Sisters of the Thorn

5 Sisters of the Thorn

3 Castigators - ally......I had 80 points

Warscroll  Battalion

Waystone Pathfinders

Endless Spells

Everblaze Comet

 

I haven't played Wanderers yet but I want to give this a shot to see how they do, I like their playstyle and evading shenanigans, how have people been finding them?

[Aezeal]

5 hours ago, Kramer said:

 

Oh they won't shine at all. But If you're looking for opportunities to use the 3" range on the Kurnoth Scythes. Their is more possible than only defensively. Just thought I would throw it in there  

True it's very usefull with dryads stringing back to a wyldwood. I'm currently playing sylvaneth only... and I can't even find good reasons to include wanderers as allies even when I want

[GM_Monkey]

1 hour ago, Dead_Duardin said:

Wanderers list I want to try

Leaders

Waywatcher

General - Masterful Hunter

Viridescent Shawl

Wayfinder

Wayfinder

Spellweaver

Nomad Prince

Forget-me-knot

Knight Incantor - ally

Battleline

10 Glade guard

10 Glade Guard

10 Glade Guard

10 Sisters of the Watch

Other

5 Sisters of the Thorn

5 Sisters of the Thorn

3 Castigators - ally......I had 80 points

Warscroll  Battalion

Waystone Pathfinders

Endless Spells

Everblaze Comet

 

I haven't played Wanderers yet but I want to give this a shot to see how they do, I like their playstyle and evading shenanigans, how have people been finding them?

Hey man, welcome to the wanderers. They are fun army to play.

Just a couple of notes on your list, just my opinion play it how you want to. 

Firstly you need 3 heros (Waywatcher, finders or stalker) for the battelion so you missing one, you can swap out the Castigators for a waystalker. (Sorry just seen your general so you do have 3 ignore this).

Secondly in IMHO the wayfinder is way worse then the Waywatcher, even with the 1 off Hail of doom it's only 9 shots average compared with the Waywatchers 8 average a turn (6 shots plus 5 or 6 on not moving). Take as many waywatchers as you can.

Thirdly the Glade guard are okay, but in groups of 10 they aren't 4+ to hit is really bad, and you need then in 20+ groups to work. Again IMHO.

Lastly, and this is really just my opinion  the Sisters of Thorn are really not good for 220. They can't shot much (average about 4 wounds a turn at 9") they can't hit anything (6 attacks for a group of 5 hitting and wounding on 4+ yuck!) and they melt in a light breeze. So why does anyone take them? Because of the Shield of Thorn spell, but who are you going to cast it on? You have no eternal guard, your archers really don't want to be in combat so who else is there? And why take 2 you can't cast it twice a turn so what's the point?

Also why the 100 point spell? It makes no sense in this list to take it when you really need more shooting and more glade guard.

 

Edited December 2, 2018 by GM_Monkey

[Dead_Duardin]

11 hours ago, GM_Monkey said:

Hey man, welcome to the wanderers. They are fun army to play.

Just a couple of notes on your list, just my opinion play it how you want to. 

Firstly you need 3 heros (Waywatcher, finders or stalker) for the battelion so you missing one, you can swap out the Castigators for a waystalker. (Sorry just seen your general so you do have 3 ignore this).

Secondly in IMHO the wayfinder is way worse then the Waywatcher, even with the 1 off Hail of doom it's only 9 shots average compared with the Waywatchers 8 average a turn (6 shots plus 5 or 6 on not moving). Take as many waywatchers as you can.

Thirdly the Glade guard are okay, but in groups of 10 they aren't 4+ to hit is really bad, and you need then in 20+ groups to work. Again IMHO.

Lastly, and this is really just my opinion  the Sisters of Thorn are really not good for 220. They can't shot much (average about 4 wounds a turn at 9") they can't hit anything (6 attacks for a group of 5 hitting and wounding on 4+ yuck!) and they melt in a light breeze. So why does anyone take them? Because of the Shield of Thorn spell, but who are you going to cast it on? You have no eternal guard, your archers really don't want to be in combat so who else is there? And why take 2 you can't cast it twice a turn so what's the point?

Also why the 100 point spell? It makes no sense in this list to take it when you really need more shooting and more glade guard.

 

Cheers for getting back to me 

So it's min 20 man or bust for glade guard? The thought process behind the comet was to have a threat on an opponents objective and for chipping away at buffing characters. I was taking two units of sisters as they're needed for the battalion and the wild riders scroll seems terrible. I could whack through some big blocks of glade guard and change up the sisters for wild riders as the difference gives more glade guard, drop the castigators too

Edited December 3, 2018 by Dead_Duardin

[GM_Monkey]

1 hour ago, Dead_Duardin said:

Cheers for getting back to me 

So it's min 20 man or bust for glade guard? The thought process behind the comet was to have a threat on an opponents objective and for chipping away at buffing characters. I was taking two units of sisters as they're needed for the battalion and the wild riders scroll seems terrible. I could whack through some big blocks of glade guard and change up the sisters for wild riders as the difference gives more glade guard, drop the castigators too

Personnally I take 1 unit of 30, and that's it. 1 20 is okay but your really forced into an early Arcane Bodkins in the hope of not losing any man.  However a few people do take 3 units of 10 just to use up the batteline quote and spend the rest of their money on good units. However pure Wanderers don't have any bug guns so we all tend to maximise the units of Glade Guard and Sister of the Watch to try and get them to be hard hitting.

The Wild riders are poor, but they are only 120 points, and will fill up your battelion, personnally I take them and use them as a road block unit, or fast grabbing an objective and trying to hold out for 1-2 more turns.

But really I don't want to influence you into take the standard list, I like your list for it's difference and I'm actually keen to hear how the Comet goes for you.

[Gwendar]

On the same topic of unit size, does anyone find 20 EG good or is it always best to stick to them as units of 30? I've seen some use 10-20 in order to fit in more shooting, like maybe another 10-20 SotW.

Slow day at work, so the mind is inquisitive.

[GM_Monkey]

15 hours ago, Gwendar said:

On the same topic of unit size, does anyone find 20 EG good or is it always best to stick to them as units of 30? I've seen some use 10-20 in order to fit in more shooting, like maybe another 10-20 SotW.

Slow day at work, so the mind is inquisitive.

I take 1 group of 20 and 1 group of 10. The 20 is the road block in front of the archer section of my battalion. The 10 hang around an objective trying to survival long enough to put me in front in VP.  I've found that there is no way to get a block of 30 into cover, and even with the block of 20 it's hard to get into cover. (I also I hate moving 30 models,)

[overtninja]

@Dead_DuardinI used GG as a group of 20 last game, their bonus to hit for unit size was lovely. After they use their Arcane Bodkins they are basically just a bit of bonus firepower, but that shooting turn does work every time. If you use the battalion, you can set them up exactly where they need to be and get that enhanced shooting off, so even if you lose dudes after that it's okay, I think. They are really there for that one round of shooting. If you don't have the battalion (at lower than 2000 points, for instance, which is what i've been playing), you have to set them up later so you get them in the right place and keep them from being in fire range, or use the general trait to teleport them all to where they need to go and get the shots off that way. I think my local meta is really shooting-lite, so I had no issues keeping the unit healthy, but if you face a lot of ranged attacks and spells 30 is probably just good to hedge your bets.

@Gwendar I have 20 of the old metal ones and my goodness did they do work last game. I managed to string them 2x10 and scoot them into a positin to keep things off an objective and adopt defensive stance, and they held the line for like two and a half turns against a GUO (who rolled poorly) on one end and a Nurgle beastie on the other. I was genuinely surprised at how durable they were, until my opponent backed up the mortal wounds truck on them and obliterated them in like a turn haha (sad).

Having used them in all my games so far, I think they bat far above their points value if they are doing what they are good at - being a somewhat mobile wall that simply does not yield. It's an important tool in the army, as we really need to keep things off our ranged units so they can do the heavy lifting in our army. They really need to get in position and hunker down, and they wilt like a dandelion on a hot sidewalk  if mortal wounds come their way, but outside of that they are aces.

As an aside, I used Kurnoth last game with scythes and tried to fight some Putrid Blightnights. It did not go well for me, even with them and Dryads going at it together. Those gross fat dudes are super rude and cut through them in a single gross fat round of combat. Not the best showing for my dudes, but I don't think they are a bad unit by any stretch - but it's clear that nothing in my army should go anywhere near blightknights and I should just shoot them off the table with SotW instead. 😛

[Gwendar]

@overtninjaThe slow workday prompted some thinking, and the thought process was the Kurnoths would be tanky enough that they wouldn't need to be behind 30-60 EG. The strength obviously lies in our shooting, so why not capitalize on that some more? Especially taking my local meta into account. I never thought about the durability of units of 10 EG but after these comments I don't think I need to invest the points into units of 30.

I guess it will come down to testing a few different setups, but if I can include more shooting then I'm all for it. May even give the battalion a go at some point, but I was never sure the points investment was really worth it (and needing to include Wild Riders\SotT), even with the double shooting. 

[overtninja]

@GwendarI think it's worth it to get at least 20 EG if you want to use them as a wall, because they absolutely will bleed wounds and die, just slow enough for you to hold your objectives long enough to get a points lead and/or port your dudes around the field and secure other objectives for more points. Wanderers thrive on their crazy mobility and tricky movement play in order to score objectives - our defensive tactics seem to be more of a chump block and delay strategy than a hold the line and grind kind of thing. We're really not a melee army, but we can pounce on things and focus them.

I've had most of my success from using our movement tricks to rapidly move my guys over to my opponent's unprotected flanks and snatch objectives from them with focus fire, and then trying my best to hold them off my side's objectives by basically sacrificing units to hold them off. EG are basically for that purpose, and I've used the Sylvaneth allies I've been taking for the same thing in my games - which is probably a waste but I face a lot of durable scary Chaos guys and something's got to stand in their way.

I think, honestly, that having 20 Dryads as a melee force is fantastic as allies for this purpose - they are another unit that is worth every point they cost, in terms of durability, damage output, and mobility. They are fantastic and give us the kind of melee we need. Kurnoth are probably best used to go fully choppy and pal around with Wildwood Rangers for maximum damage output. I think they would work together well in most situations.

I haven't gotten a chance to use the battalion yet, but the primary advantage is being able to deploy your whole battalion after your opponent sets up in a single drop, anywhere you want, and go from there. The bonus shooting is rather hard to set it up because you need your Nomad Prince to be in position the turn before, but the pay off is likely devastating when you get it to happen.

Wild Riders are, as you say, rather bad, but they are super mobile and great at snatching objectives and/or sitting backfield and holding your own. Their mobility lets you avoid combats, or charge in and do damage, then retreat out of harms way the next turn - there is almost no way that they will still be in range of whatever they flee from with a run move. Also, our Spellweaver's signature spell returns 1d3 models, so targeting Wild Riders get you back 2-6 wounds a cast, which is actually great.

[Gwendar]

@overtninja Right, one of the alternate setups I was working on does 2x20 with an extra unit of SotW for a total of 30 and a Prince for his CA, although I may find myself using all my CP for IP similar to my Skaven lists. Anyway, I could drop the Kurnoths for Rangers and maybe squeeze in more shooting, but ah well. I'm not completely unsold on Dryads, but having some tanky Elite units that put out decent damage seems good enough, at least in my meta filled with SCE, big monsters and high saves.

I think I look at the battalion the same way I look at running Gautfyre; Do as much damage turn 1 and hope you get the double turn. Granted, Gautfyre puts out straight MW's and tends to easily kill off key characters, whereas with Pathfinders you have the luxury of not setting everything up within 8" for Warpfire Throwers\Projectors. I guess what I dislike most about the Battalion is the inability to include any reasonable amount of allies for the tax of the battalion and Wild Riders. I just really love SotW but I find I can only reliably bring 20 of them along with 30 GG in a battalion. I blame playing too much Skryre for my love of shooting, despite that not being the way to go anymore.

[Aezeal]

16 hours ago, overtninja said:

@Dead_DuardinI used GG as a group of 20 last game, their bonus to hit for unit size was lovely. After they use their Arcane Bodkins they are basically just a bit of bonus firepower, but that shooting turn does work every time. If you use the battalion, you can set them up exactly where they need to be and get that enhanced shooting off, so even if you lose dudes after that it's okay, I think. They are really there for that one round of shooting. If you don't have the battalion (at lower than 2000 points, for instance, which is what i've been playing), you have to set them up later so you get them in the right place and keep them from being in fire range, or use the general trait to teleport them all to where they need to go and get the shots off that way. I think my local meta is really shooting-lite, so I had no issues keeping the unit healthy, but if you face a lot of ranged attacks and spells 30 is probably just good to hedge your bets.

@Gwendar I have 20 of the old metal ones and my goodness did they do work last game. I managed to string them 2x10 and scoot them into a positin to keep things off an objective and adopt defensive stance, and they held the line for like two and a half turns against a GUO (who rolled poorly) on one end and a Nurgle beastie on the other. I was genuinely surprised at how durable they were, until my opponent backed up the mortal wounds truck on them and obliterated them in like a turn haha (sad).

Having used them in all my games so far, I think they bat far above their points value if they are doing what they are good at - being a somewhat mobile wall that simply does not yield. It's an important tool in the army, as we really need to keep things off our ranged units so they can do the heavy lifting in our army. They really need to get in position and hunker down, and they wilt like a dandelion on a hot sidewalk  if mortal wounds come their way, but outside of that they are aces.

As an aside, I used Kurnoth last game with scythes and tried to fight some Putrid Blightnights. It did not go well for me, even with them and Dryads going at it together. Those gross fat dudes are super rude and cut through them in a single gross fat round of combat. Not the best showing for my dudes, but I don't think they are a bad unit by any stretch - but it's clear that nothing in my army should go anywhere near blightknights and I should just shoot them off the table with SotW instead. 😛

Yeah the Blightkings are severely undercosted in comparison to the Hunters.. and even those arent bad

[GM_Monkey]

16 hours ago, overtninja said:

.....

I've had most of my success from using our movement tricks to rapidly move my guys over to my opponent's unprotected flanks and snatch objectives from them with focus fire, and then trying my best to hold them off my side's objectives by basically sacrificing units to hold them off.

....

What movement tricks? 1 unit a turn just doesn't do it for me, how are you focus firing with just 1 unit?

[GM_Monkey]

The Battalion's protective volley is the reason you take it. It can really help, I've won a few games by taking a battalion, setting up a big castle of troops behind a line of 20 eternal guard, then giving the opponent the first turn, letting him charge my line, lose a whole bunch of eternal guard. But then when it come to my turn taking out the biggest baddest unit that charged my line with protective volley  (after all my command abilities and magic usually bringing back the eternal guard) then you still got the shooting phase to look forward to as well.

Granted I can usually only get 2-3 volleys off a game, but it's vital for making the castle something that you don't want to get within 12" off, and it makes the hold objectives or clearing them out easier. You just have to be very careful with the placement of your units and keep them all together, like a gunline. Which is something I hate now with the changes to the allegiance ability changes, I want our fast moving popping in and out units back, that was very fun and very thematic.

[Gwill_of_the_Woods]

21 minutes ago, GM_Monkey said:

What movement tricks? 1 unit a turn just doesn't do it for me, how are you focus firing with just 1 unit?

I genuinely can't believe how they nerfed this allegiance ability.

I think at most all they needed to do was review the command trait.

[GM_Monkey]

1 minute ago, Gwill_of_the_Woods said:

I genuinely can't believe how they nerfed this allegiance ability.

I think at most all they needed to do was review the command trait.

It took me at least 5 games to get out of the hug the edges, move fast mind set... so many dead elves

[GM_Monkey]

28 minutes ago, Gwill_of_the_Woods said:

I genuinely can't believe how they nerfed this allegiance ability.

I think at most all they needed to do was review the command trait.

Actually you raise a good point, nerfing the command trait would have been a lesser kick in the guts, it would have allowed us to still use the corners to good effect.

[overtninja]

I never got a chance to play AoS 1E, so I never got used to teleporting any units in the proper positions whenever I wanted to. From my perspective, being able to do that would have let me bully my opponents indefinitely - I would have been able to teleport out of every combat I got into on the edges, shuttle my forces easily around the whole table edge, and by using Stalker of the Hidden Ways and the Wending Wand, I could pretty easily get everything I needed to where I needed to. It would have been super no fun for my opponents, I think, never being able to catch anything.

Anyway, outside of losing that functionality, I've been able to do some great stuff with the tools available.  Stalker of the Hidden Paths lets you shuttle a key unit into a good position in the beginning of the game so they can get solid shooting, and shuttle important units to new positions across the board so they can get out of harm's way or get to a good shooting spot. I haven't used the Wending Wand, but running a ranged hero out into a good position along a board edge and porting a needed unit to them in the later turns of the game seems really appealing.

I try to use my teleport to help me isolate, damage and hopefully eliminate units that would otherwise not be accessible to me, or that my opponents are trying to protect, or that really need additional firepower. It usually lets me surprise people and shoot units off the table unexpectedly. My opponents have to play around it, and often can't afford to hang back to screen my teleporting out, and it still lets me get units right near them. It also means that if they don't hang back on their objectives, I can teleport and take them, which has actually helped me win most of my games. Most armies are faced with a choice of moving to take me out and abandoning their objectives, or holding them for several turns while I maneuver and prepare to hit one very hard in the later turns by focus fire and teleporting.

I haven't faced a full blitz army, and I'm sure we'll do really terribly against them, but that's kind of to be expected - that particular meta is so dominant that most everything loses to it. I'm looking forward to playing more opponents and different armies so I can keep trying things, but so far I've found our mobility options to be really useful.

[DionTheWanderer]

Other than occasional mentions, we haven’t had a whole bunch of lore for the Wanderers yet. 

I’ve had a go at writing a bit of my own, taking a recent narrative tournament as inspiration for a series of short stories. 

Let me know your thoughts, particularly if I’ve written anything contradicting the little official lore we’ve had so far!

Link to first story:

https://link.medium.com/kAV6q9x3rS

[Popisdead]

On 12/7/2018 at 2:51 AM, DionTheWanderer said:

Other than occasional mentions, we haven’t had a whole bunch of lore for the Wanderers yet.

David Guymer has a unit of Wardancers in his upcoming Idoneth novel.  I highly recommend when it comes out, buying it and letting BL know you bought it for the Wardancer lore.  That's how you get more.  Also there are 2 Guy Haley releases (one audio drama, one novella) about a Wanderer Glade Lord on a Great Stag.  They've been linked,... maybe in the Pre 2.0 link so at any rate search them out and give them love also

[Gwill_of_the_Woods]

3 hours ago, Popisdead said:

David Guymer has a unit of Wardancers in his upcoming Idoneth novel.  I highly recommend when it comes out, buying it and letting BL know you bought it for the Wardancer lore.  That's how you get more.  Also there are 2 Guy Haley releases (one audio drama, one novella) about a Wanderer Glade Lord on a Great Stag.  They've been linked,... maybe in the Pre 2.0 link so at any rate search them out and give them love also

Is that the Prince Maesa advent entry and the Inferno2 story?

What's the Idoneth book called?

How do you let Black Library know?