AoS 2 - Wanderers Discussion

[Aelfric]

19 hours ago, Frozenbeast said:

At 1500 pts we always used the limits for 2000, a part from allies which are easy to calculate (1000->200, 1500->300, 2000->400), which is 6 leaders, 3+ BL, 300 allies, 4 behemoth. Are you guys used to follow other limits?

The last tournament at the shop was a while ago and I don't have the time to play that often.  They  use Vanguard rules for 1500 point tournaments, but I had forgotten and for some reason had it in my head that over 1000 points you use the the battlehost limits.   I will try the list out at some point, and look forward to hearing how you get on with using the battalion at 1500 pts.  I was sure somebody was going to bring Morathi and was looking forward to the opportunity to put the Forget-me-knot on her and kill her in one turn.

[Gwill_of_the_Woods]

Hey everyone,

Can I please get some confirmation that this is a valid Waystone Pathfinder list.

I haven't chosen any artefacts, but will take the Wanderers allegiance and will be playing a Nurgle army in the realm of Life.

I'm open to suggestions on the artefacts, command traits, and who to use as general.

Nomad Prince

Spell Weaver

3x Way Watcher

1x10 Wild Riders

1x5 Sisters of the Thorn

1x20 Eternal Guard

2x20 Glade Guard

1x Sisters of the Watch

Battalion: Waystone Pathfinder

Total: 2000.

Thanks

Game on Sunday, I'll give feedback.

Edit: ...Also it's my first time using the Waystone Pathfinder battalion and playing at 2000points.

Edited July 3, 2018 by Gwill_of_the_Woods
Added last sentence & spelling correction.

[Frozenbeast]

3 minutes ago, Gwill_of_the_Woods said:

Hey everyone,

Can I please get some confirmation that this is a valid Waystone Pathfinder list.

I haven't chosen any artefacts, but will take the Wanderers allegiance and will be playing a Nurgle army in the realm of Life.

I'm open to suggestions on the artefacts, command traits, and who to use as general.

Nomad Prince

Spell Weaver

3x Way Watcher

1x10 Wild Riders

1x5 Sisters of the Thorn

1x20 Eternal Guard

2x20 Glade Guard

1x Sisters of the Watch

Battalion: Waystone Pathfinder

Total: 2000.

Thanks

Game on Sunday, I'll give feedback.

It does look ok to me point wise and limits wise.

I guess your choices are dictated by the amount of models you own and not by the fact that one unit is better or worst than another. 

If this is not the case I would take the Waywatcher as a general, and personally lean toward more SotW than GG. you could drop 5 WR and do just one 30 man unit of GG and get a second SotW unit for more dmg output (while still having the chance of reducing big target down with the 1x -3 rend). Like this you will have 60 spare points to use in Endless spells maybe (I tried both the Swords and the shackles and they are very useful, or the pendulum too could be devastating if paired with the Realm Wanderers). Or further more keep only 20 GG and get something to ally that is 180 pts worth.

[Gwill_of_the_Woods]

How much are Kurnoth Hunters now? Did they go down to 180?

[Frozenbeast]

200, they might be worth 190 maybe but I think now 200 is good. we can fit 6 in as allies.

[Aelfric]

Now we can take Idoneth as allies, a Soulscryer plus either 20 Thralls or 6 Eels would make a good ally contingent - 360 pts either way.  If I add this to the 1500 battalion list, that would leave 140 points to bulk up the EG to 30 or WWR to 20 ( or several other variables ).  This would be a three drop army and none of it starts on the table - unless you're playing "Total Commitment".  The Idoneth can come down at the end of any of your movement phases for a later game 6" charge re-rollable.   (It's a pity we can't ally in Khinerai)

[adreal]

I have been toying around with the idea of using namarti thralls as counts as wardancers, my army is mainly shooting based though, but a nice combat unit could be fun.

 

My list atm is

Waystone Pathfinders

Nomad Prince-splinterbirch blade

Spell weaver

Waywatcher-general, eagle eyes

Waywatcher-viredensent shawl

Waystrider

30 glade guard

10 sisters

10 sisters

10 sisters

5 wild riders

5 wild riders

5 swifthawk reavers.

 

Thinking of swapping the reavers for thralls, but reavers do put out 15 shots, which is nice 

[Ohnoflash]

3 hours ago, Frozenbeast said:

It does look ok to me point wise and limits wise.

I guess your choices are dictated by the amount of models you own and not by the fact that one unit is better or worst than another. 

If this is not the case I would take the Waywatcher as a general, and personally lean toward more SotW than GG. you could drop 5 WR and do just one 30 man unit of GG and get a second SotW unit for more dmg output (while still having the chance of reducing big target down with the 1x -3 rend). Like this you will have 60 spare points to use in Endless spells maybe (I tried both the Swords and the shackles and they are very useful, or the pendulum too could be devastating if paired with the Realm Wanderers). Or further more keep only 20 GG and get something to ally that is 180 pts worth.

Hey, new wanderer guy here. I’ll play my second game 2000p with wanderers, against Stormcast i might add. My list is a bit similar to yours. And i hage one with Pathfinder and one without. IM still sceptical about Pathfinder and its partly because Im scared and unsure how to use it ^^ Anyway here are my lists:

PATHFINDER

-Nomad Prince 

-Spellweaver (staff)

-Waywatcher (General)

-Waywatcher

-Waystrider

—————————

30x Eternal Guard

30x Glade Guard

20x Sisters of the Watch

10x Wild riders

5x Wild riders

WAYSTONE PATHFINDERS

TOTAL: 1990

__________________________________

Without Pathfinder 

—————————————

Nomad Prince 

 

Spellweaver

Waywatcher (General)

Waywatcher

————————————-

30x Eternal Guard

20x Sisters of the Watch

20x Sisters of the Watch

30x Glade Guard 

10x Wild Riders

TOTAL: 1950

 

 

[Yoshiya]

43 minutes ago, Aelfric said:

Now we can take Idoneth as allies, a Soulscryer plus either 20 Thralls or 6 Eels would make a good ally contingent - 360 pts either way.  If I add this to the 1500 battalion list, that would leave 140 points to bulk up the EG to 30 or WWR to 20 ( or several other variables ).  This would be a three drop army and none of it starts on the table - unless you're playing "Total Commitment".  The Idoneth can come down at the end of any of your movement phases for a later game 6" charge re-rollable.   (It's a pity we can't ally in Khinerai)

Just a heads up, the idoneth points in the ghb are wrong and you should instead use the ones in the battletome (in the idoneth faq). That makes the cheapest 6 eel/soulscryer ally block 380pts if you use the defensive eels and you can't fit 6 morsarr eels and a scryer in as that's 420pts.

The thralls group would be the same cost as the defensive eels group.

(For reference;

Soulscryer - 100pts

Ishalean guard - 140pts per 3

Morsarr guard - 160pts per 3

Thralls - 140pts per 10)

[Aezeal]

Am I the only one who doesn't feel like allying with the deepkin at all due to not matching that well on both aesthetic and lore level?

[Aelfric]

2 minutes ago, Yoshiya said:

Just a heads up, the idoneth points in the ghb are wrong and you should instead use the ones in the battletome (in the idoneth faq). That makes the cheapest 6 eel/soulscryer ally block 380pts if you use the defensive eels and you can't fit 6 morsarr eels and a scryer in as that's 420pts.

The thralls group would be the same cost as the defensive eels group.

(For reference;

Soulscryer - 100pts

Ishalean guard - 140pts per 3

Morsarr guard - 160pts per 3

Thralls - 140pts per 10)

Thanks for that, good to know.  Still a good use of 380 points, though.  Just leaves 120 pts to play with - probably add 10 EG and swap the Waystrider for a third Waywatcher.  3 Waywatchers are far more productive than 30 GG for the same price and more survivable, esp as they can all be -2 to enemy missiles.

[Aelfric]

4 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

Am I the only one who doesn't feel like allying with the deepkin at all due to not matching that well on both aesthetic and lore level?

To me, Wanderers and Idoneth have much in common, one wanders the land, the other the sea - both are deeply connected to the natural world.  Wanderers were rejected by Alarielle and The Idoneth were rejected by Teclis, both for reasons beyond their ability to control.  Both live on the margins of ordered society, not really understood by others within Order - even other Aelven societies.  There are more similarities between these two factions than you might think. 

[awcamawn]

11 hours ago, Gwill_of_the_Woods said:

Nomad Prince

Spell Weaver

3x Way Watcher

1x10 Wild Riders

1x5 Sisters of the Thorn

1x20 Eternal Guard

2x20 Glade Guard

1x Sisters of the Watch

Battalion: Waystone Pathfinder

Total: 2000.

I believe you are short one unit. You have your five heroes and 2 units of cavalry, but then you need 4 units of your choice of Sisters of the Watch, Glade Guard, Wildwood Rangers, and Eternal Guard. You have only three - break the unit of 20 Eternal Guard into two units of 10 for example and you should be good to go! Edit: whoops, didn't see the 2x on Glade Guard...

Here's a rule question that came up in my first AoS 2.0 game - the Waystone Pathfinders Defensive Volley ability lets you choose a unit within 12" of the Nomad Prince and all units in the battalion can make a shooting attack against that unit as if it were the shooting phase. Do y'all think this overrides the core rules? If one of your units is within 3 inches of an enemy unit can it shoot 'out of combat' to target a different unit that has been selected for a Defensive Volley? 

6 hours ago, Aezeal said:

Am I the only one who doesn't feel like allying with the deepkin at all due to not matching that well on both aesthetic and lore level?

You're not alone  

Personally I don't feel very motivated to take any allies at all, I got into Age of Sigmar to play Wood Elves Wanderers, and that's what I intend to do!

Edited July 4, 2018 by awcamawn

[awcamawn]

1 minute ago, Aelfric said:

Wanderers were rejected by Alarielle

Source? My impression is that many Wanderers decided to abandon her and Ghyran to it's fate, not the other way around. I feel that the Wanderers reconciling with Alarielle is far more likely than the Idoneth reconciling with Teclis, in fact we know that many Wanderers live within Alarielle's Living City with her blessing.

[Aelfric]

3 minutes ago, awcamawn said:

Source? My impression is that many Wanderers decided to abandon her and Ghyran to it's fate, not the other way around. I feel that the Wanderers reconciling with Alarielle is far more likely than the Idoneth reconciling with Teclis, in fact we know that many Wanderers live within Alarielle's Living City with her blessing.

The (short) description of the Wanderers in the Grand Alliance:Order book, talks of a rift between the Sylvaneth and Wanderers and that Allariele regards the Wanderers as divorced from Nature.  This is not because of what was regarded by Her as the betrayal when the Wanderers deserted Ghyran, but a separate issue.  That feels to me like a rejection.

[Frozenbeast]

41 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

Am I the only one who doesn't feel like allying with the deepkin at all due to not matching that well on both aesthetic and lore level?

No you are not! Now that they wen down I much rather ally 6 Kurnouth Hunters than the soulless teenagers. 

25 minutes ago, Aelfric said:

To me, Wanderers and Idoneth have much in common, one wanders the land, the other the sea - both are deeply connected to the natural world.  Wanderers were rejected by Alarielle and The Idoneth were rejected by Teclis, both for reasons beyond their ability to control.  Both live on the margins of ordered society, not really understood by others within Order - even other Aelven societies.  There are more similarities between these two factions than you might think. 

I feel they are very different in lore. Wanderers were rejected by Alarielle because we betrayed her and now we are trying to redeem ourselves. Idoneth Deepkins rebelled from Teclis because he wanted to exterminate them; plus now that they have their own society they need to kill to survive, and Aelves are their favorite prays as Aelves souls are the ones that fit better with them. Darkling covens and Daughters of Khaine are in Order Allegiance too but up until End Times they were seeking revenge on all other Elves (they were still Elves and not Aelves) and now they are in Order just because they decided to fight Archaon as Slaanesh was killing them too. I am oing a bit off topic here but it was just to explain what I ment?. I see Deepkin (lore wise) as another of the order controversies so I would not ally them to Wanderers. If though we are speaking about competitive play then I might have a change of heart.

[Aelfric]

30 minutes ago, awcamawn said:

Here's a rule question that came up in my first AoS 2.0 game - the Waystone Pathfinders Defensive Volley ability lets you choose a unit within 12" of the Nomad Prince and all units in the battalion can make a shooting attack against that unit as if it were the shooting phase. Do y'all think this overrides the core rules? If one of your units is within 3 inches of an enemy unit can it shoot 'out of combat' to target a different unit that has been selected for a Defensive Volley?

 Warscrolls take precedence over core rules, as stated on page 238 of the core book.  As far as I'm aware battalions are warscrolls, so I would say that in this instance you can shoot out of combat against a unit more than 3" away.

[awcamawn]

True, Grand Alliance: Order does mention that Alarielle and the Sylvaneth see the Wanderers as "divorced from nature," which does sound like a pretty big diss among nature loving types. However, the Sylvaneth section of that same book details how the Sylvaneth in general "remain distrustful of any not of their kind" and that the Wanderers "are seen as estranged cousins" (page 85 of GA: Order). If you thought the Sylvaneth 'rejection' of the Wanderers was harsh, you should hear what they think of humans and dwarves! There being a certain level of distrust (IE "rift") between the aelves of the wood and the forest spirits is something that goes way way back to the world-that-was from what I understand.

The new fluff from the Core Book confirms that whatever the nature of the "rift" between Alarielle and the Wanderers, they were nevertheless close allies at the beginning of the War of Life ('Swathe Nations At War' p94), and that it was only after "abandoning Ghyran to the infestations of Nurgle and hence leaving the people of the Everqueen to their plight" that they "[had] broken a long-standing alliance that will take lifetimes to rebuild" ('The Wanderers' p143). 

Alarielle lived and fought alongside the Wanderers until many of those aelves abandoned her, whereas Teclis tried to destroy the Idoneth outright after creating them and they fled. I would argue that their relationships with their respective gods are quite different.

This is not to say that similarities don't exist, or that Wanderers and Idoneth don't have many fluff-based reasons to ally together. Moreover, unlikely allies make for a fantastic narrative hook and gives you a jumping off point for the story of your army. For example, if you decide to take Drycha as an ally (in any army, because she hates EVERYONE), you suddenly have to explain from a narrative perspective why she would fight alongside non-sylvaneth 'scum.' And thus a story almost immediately writes itself in the explaining thereof (maybe Drycha is using the non-sylvaneth as pawns in her genocidal game, maybe she was ordered to fight alongside them by Alarielle herself but is ready to turn on them at any moment, etc).

Again, not to say I think Idoneth make particularly unlikely allies for Wanderers (I don't), but you do have some explaining to do when you ally in soul thieves into your army (but the explanation itself is an opportunity for good storytelling). I imagine it goes something like this in it's most basic form - 'Hey Idoneth, don't steal our children, come fight with us and we'll totally get you some souls broh... but seriously, stay away from our children...' ?

Edited July 4, 2018 by awcamawn
grammarz

[Ohnoflash]

Can you make pile-in move while fortress of boughs is activated?

[awcamawn]

Just now, Ohnoflash said:

Can you make pile-in move while fortress of boughs is activated?

Because a pile-in is indeed classified as a move and the Fortress of Boughs ability states the unit cannot move while the ability is active, alas you cannot.

[Ohnoflash]

This also might be a silly question, but does the missile units need to be in their own missile range to be able to shoot the enemy unit within 12” of the Nomad Prince that he nominates? ^^

[Gwill_of_the_Woods]

6 hours ago, Ohnoflash said:

This also might be a silly question, but does the missile units need to be in their own missile range to be able to shoot the enemy unit within 12” of the Nomad Prince that he nominates? ^^

I would presume so.

I don't think a unit of Sisters of the Thorn would be able to shoot beyond their 9" or other units getting a bonus 6" to top up the range.

[Aelfric]

17 hours ago, awcamawn said:

True, Grand Alliance: Order does mention that Alarielle and the Sylvaneth see the Wanderers as "divorced from nature," which does sound like a pretty big diss among nature loving types. However, the Sylvaneth section of that same book details how the Sylvaneth in general "remain distrustful of any not of their kind" and that the Wanderers "are seen as estranged cousins" (page 85 of GA: Order). If you thought the Sylvaneth 'rejection' of the Wanderers was harsh, you should hear what they think of humans and dwarves! There being a certain level of distrust (IE "rift") between the aelves of the wood and the forest spirits is something that goes way way back to the world-that-was from what I understand.

The new fluff from the Core Book confirms that whatever the nature of the "rift" between Alarielle and the Wanderers, they were nevertheless close allies at the beginning of the War of Life ('Swathe Nations At War' p94), and that it was only after "abandoning Ghyran to the infestations of Nurgle and hence leaving the people of the Everqueen to their plight" that they "[had] broken a long-standing alliance that will take lifetimes to rebuild" ('The Wanderers' p143). 

Alarielle lived and fought alongside the Wanderers until many of those aelves abandoned her, whereas Teclis tried to destroy the Idoneth outright after creating them and they fled. I would argue that their relationships with their respective gods are quite different.

This is not to say that similarities don't exist, or that Wanderers and Idoneth don't have many fluff-based reasons to ally together. Moreover, unlikely allies make for a fantastic narrative hook and gives you a jumping off point for the story of your army. For example, if you decide to take Drycha as an ally (in any army, because she hates EVERYONE), you suddenly have to explain from a narrative perspective why she would fight alongside non-sylvaneth 'scum.' And thus a story almost immediately writes itself in the explaining thereof (maybe Drycha is using the non-sylvaneth as pawns in her genocidal game, maybe she was ordered to fight alongside them by Alarielle herself but is ready to turn on them at any moment, etc).

Again, not to say I think Idoneth make particularly unlikely allies for Wanderers (I don't), but you do have some explaining to do when you ally in soul thieves into your army (but the explanation itself is an opportunity for good storytelling). I imagine it goes something like this in it's most basic form - 'Hey Idoneth, don't steal our children, come fight with us and we'll totally get you some souls broh... but seriously, stay away from our children...' ?

The problem I have with Allariele is that, as the Everqueen, she merged with Isha, Aelven Goddess of Nature, during the End Times which ensured she would survive as the Incarnate of Life in the new reality.  But she rejected her Aelven heritage and her people without explanation.  The old Wood Elves worshipped Isha in the Old World and she cared for them, but in her new form she has abandoned the descendants of her followers.  

(Allariele doesn't even have the Aelf keyword)

One of the silver linings to having little official lore is that we are less constrained when creating our own.  The lore I created for my Wanderers gives great importance to the restoring and strengthening of the Ley-lines (to tie in with what little lore we have).  Unfortunately, this can only be achieved on land and those Ley-lines under the sea were always annoyingly out of reach.  However, since the arrival of the Deepkin out of obscurity, the possibility of caring for these Ley-lines can now be realised. By working with the Idoneth, perhaps they can help us in our appointed task and perhaps, with our knowledge of the flora and fauna of the land which they lack, we may be able to help them find a better solution to their Soul-sickness.  To that end my tribe are at the beginning of developing a relationship with a small Idoneth enclave for our mutual Aelven benefit and to the benefit of the Realms as a whole.

Of course the numbers of wandering tribes are many and not all will agree with this view.

I agree with you completely that creating a backstory and lore is so important and really helps bring your forces to life ( no pun intended ).

[Aezeal]

21 hours ago, Aelfric said:

To me, Wanderers and Idoneth have much in common, one wanders the land, the other the sea - both are deeply connected to the natural world.  Wanderers were rejected by Alarielle and The Idoneth were rejected by Teclis, both for reasons beyond their ability to control.  Both live on the margins of ordered society, not really understood by others within Order - even other Aelven societies.  There are more similarities between these two factions than you might think. 

Still they don't suit me :D.... soulless freaks

[Nick907]

I don't think you can use the 'protective volley' ability to shoot out of combat, because you cannot shoot out of combat in the shooting phase and you treat them 'as if it were the shooting phase'. 

I personally like the idea that we abandoned Alarielle and have since been rejected by her and the Sylvaneth. My Wanderers general is a primadonna/narcissist/womanizer/hunter/fur-trader/carnivor, so of course the hippy/vegan/plant-people that control the realm would try to chase him away. Luckily, the Wanderers know how to navigate around all of nature's hostilities. 

"Yo Alarielle! I only came here to trap some of your Fey Steeds so that my woman can ride them! Thanks for the venison! I hope you lose some weight soon! See ya later!" 
 -Governor Trojanoak to Alarielle, seconds before fleeing from 'The Battle of the Birch Trees'