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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Dispossessed Discussion

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quick question: i have not had a problem in my scene, in any scene or tournament have you guys had problems using the warrior models as long beards so long as theyre modeled correctly? Ive been using them since old fantasy and ill be going to adepticon so im making sure it hasnt been an issue

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I still love the idea of a grudge keeper that recites grudges during battle to rouse the dispossessed into vengeful fury. The model could be on foot or they could give him a throne or platform design to hearken back to Thorgrim. Maybe give the warscroll a list of conditions that increase the buff he provides should they be triggered (Lose an entire unit, lose an objective, your general is slain, ect.).

Despite the role of women in dwarf societies, I wouldn't mind seeing a kind of Valkyrie like hero in the form of a female dwarf aiding the weary dawi and passing out beer to heal characters and getting units drunk on buffs.

Looking to expand their builder role, it would be neat to see something like a giant construction machine as a centerpiece behemoth. Something I refer to as the "Killdozer" when discussing the idea with others. Something that can both deploy defensive scenery like fortifications, but also punish enemies for using scenery by demolishing it or dealing mortal wounds to those nearby or garrisoned. This would cover both the fluff of them building and also the fluff of them tearing down chaos constructions. 

Since everyone is getting terrain now with their release, I can think of a few ways to work this in. One could be just a fort or keep that give some kind of defensive buff and features a grudge thrower or bolt thrower (Trying to distance us from Ironweld and keep it traditional unless we get out guns back) to make it threatening and give us the range threat we need to off set the slowness. Another could be a mine or underway opening that allows for the replenishment of lost units and acts as the initial opening for a network of tunnels dug during the game as others have mentioned before.  Finally, I have thought of an ancestor shrine. A hero could man the shrine and give buffs sort of like the chaos war-shrine. Choosing a god or ancestor to venerate. 

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7 hours ago, Kramer said:

So My dream is still, heavily armoured dwarfs, think ironbraekers, irondrakes etc. Drop everything who wears a shirt. Add a mining unit as the new battle line. Again heavily armoured. A close range flamer shooting unit which usually clears hallways with flame, make it a double kit with maybe a long range ‘sniper’ kind of unit. No artillery, cause how often you doing that underground?

Irondrakes are literally hand-held flamethrowers.

 

Also old Flame cannons and Organ guns are/were named "Tunnel Artillery" just because they were actually heavily used in underearth fights against Skavens and Goblins...

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Lots of cool ideas!

Love the irondrakes, having the flamethrowers be a horde killing tool would be pretty thematic and cool. Keep them tough, and have them function at a closer range. Dispossessed should never be afraid to mix things up in close combat.

I think the only idea's I really stray away from is fortification pieces. Sure, makes sense that dwarves build grand structures, but I hate the idea of ending up in a situation like tau. Building gun platforms and stuffing them like a clown car wouldn't really be fun for the game. I feel that's why I lean into the constructs route of thinking, only thing that comes to mind when I think of creation like a keyword.

Dunno how I feel about a terrain piece just being a mine shaft. It seems every army is just getting slapped with a summoning/ or recursion ability. I'd much prefer something closer to a herdstone, huge runic tablets and ruins that project a buff to our units. Grots, Skaven and undead can bubble up like an endless horde, doesn't really fit Dispossessed IMO.
 

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57 minutes ago, eciu said:

Irondrakes are literally hand-held flamethrowers.

 

Also old Flame cannons and Organ guns are/were named "Tunnel Artillery" just because they were actually heavily used in underearth fights against Skavens and Goblins...

Are they? That's cool? Can you reference a description of that? Never read that :) But I meant more like the FlameThrowers like Skaven have. Mortal wounds over a shorter distance. 

And yes Flame Cannons and Organ guns could fit. But then it would be getting a bit to close to WHFB dwarfs is they add to much back. But that's very much a personal flavour. 

 

39 minutes ago, Shankelton said:

Dunno how I feel about a terrain piece just being a mine shaft. It seems every army is just getting slapped with a summoning/ or recursion ability. I'd much prefer something closer to a herdstone, huge runic tablets and ruins that project a buff to our units. Grots, Skaven and undead can bubble up like an endless horde, doesn't really fit Dispossessed IMO.

I'm with @Shankelton on that one. Either a cool unique ability or no terrain piece for me. I do really like the idea of demolition units being the only thing in game to mess up other armies Terrain pieces :D 

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18 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Are they? That's cool? Can you reference a description of that? Never read that :) But I meant more like the FlameThrowers like Skaven have. Mortal wounds over a shorter distance. 

And yes Flame Cannons and Organ guns could fit. But then it would be getting a bit to close to WHFB dwarfs is they add to much back. But that's very much a personal flavour. 

 

I'm with @Shankelton on that one. Either a cool unique ability or no terrain piece for me. I do really like the idea of demolition units being the only thing in game to mess up other armies Terrain pieces :D 

8th edition army book for reference ;)

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5 minutes ago, Wargamergunnar said:

8th edition army book for reference ;)

I quit by 8th, not buying it for that ;) 

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1 hour ago, Kramer said:

Are they? That's cool? Can you reference a description of that? Never read that :) But I meant more like the FlameThrowers like Skaven have. Mortal wounds over a shorter distance.

Image result for total war irondrakesFrom Total War: Warhammer

From Old Dwarf's Codex:

Image result for total war irondrakes

 

 

 

Damn, those beardlings again skip Loremasters classes!

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I didn’t know that they were flamethrowers either.  That’s amazing!

I was thinking about future dwarf kits.  Those bucket helmets that the ironbreakers/irondrakes/hammerers have are the future aren’t they?  I could see them replacing the pointy Viking style ones.

Also, quick question about the hammerer longbeard kit; the great hammers fit onto the long beard bodies don’t they?  I’ve often wondered what hammerers would look like with long beards, and what warriors would look like with bucket helmets.

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4 hours ago, Shankelton said:

I think the only idea's I really stray away from is fortification pieces. Sure, makes sense that dwarves build grand structures, but I hate the idea of ending up in a situation like tau. Building gun platforms and stuffing them like a clown car wouldn't really be fun for the game. I feel that's why I lean into the constructs route of thinking, only thing that comes to mind when I think of creation like a keyword.

Dunno how I feel about a terrain piece just being a mine shaft. It seems every army is just getting slapped with a summoning/ or recursion ability. I'd much prefer something closer to a herdstone, huge runic tablets and ruins that project a buff to our units. Grots, Skaven and undead can bubble up like an endless horde, doesn't really fit Dispossessed IMO.
 

 

3 hours ago, Kramer said:

I'm with @Shankelton on that one. Either a cool unique ability or no terrain piece for me. I do really like the idea of demolition units being the only thing in game to mess up other armies Terrain pieces :D 

I have thought about this recently when the topic of Duardin specific terrain came up before. Mine shafts, etc. are good ideas but the Dispossessed have another big problem, what's their niche? Whats their gimmick? We already have very resistant duardin in the form of Fyreslayers, firepower and vehicles are handled by the Kharadrons (and there is also the Ironweld Arsenal). 

So to combine these two, how about letting the Dispossessed build their own terrain? To limit the power of this ability and to allow for a variety of buildings these terrain pieces could cost a set amount of "Building-Points" (BP). And the duardin player can use BP to build a new piece of terrain within , lets say, 3" of a duardin  unit. 

Well sure, this could lead to the problem already mentioned by @Shankelton and Dispossessed player start hiding in their deployment zone. This could be fixed by making it so that BP have to be earned in a rather aggressive way. Destroying enemy units (extra points for war machines, monsters and heroes), destroying terrain outside of your own deployment zone, having units in the enemies half of the battlefield. You get the idea. This could reenforce a theme of "What we have, we hold!" as in, Duardin are hard to get rid of once they are in your face. 

Another thing would be to focus more on buildings that generate buffs instead of bunkers or cannons.  For example, an ancestor statue that gives units within 6" a buff to their bravery value. 

Edited by Gecktron

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giphy.gif

9 minutes ago, Gecktron said:

So to combine these two, how about letting the Dispossessed build their own terrain? To limit the power of this ability and to allow for a variety of buildings these terrain pieces could cost a set amount of "Building-Points" (BP). And the duardin player can use BP to build a new piece of terrain within , lets say, 3" of a duardin  unit. 

 

Flavorful, but I think its a fine line. Building terrain/ controlling LoS and board real estate is SUPER strong. We see that with Wildwoods and Gnarlmaws. 

Might be a Pandora's box to open it up more, though perhaps there's something there! Constructs and units that are built would be my gut instinct.

 

Edited by Shankelton

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Loving reading all these ideas! Been looking through and have combined a couple as to what I would like to see.

So we all want a grudge-keeping hero in some way and also many ideas about a terrain piece? What about a grudge-keeping hero with a terrain piece of some kind of giant oath stone? 

Many Dwarfs in the old lore stood on oath stones to increase morale, leadership, defence etc. Would love to see a larger-scale version of this. So perhaps being in the vicinity of the oath stone gives out buffs? Would fit with our synergy style and work with the new hero. Maybe with some kind of building system or extra grudges from the hero to add to the stone as the battle continues, as someone mentioned, to prevent it from essentially being a fortress piece?

Basically trying to combine everything I would love to see for us. Bring back oath stones! Belegar would approve!

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This something I've been thinking of in order to further push Dispossessed into a direction we've never really seen before. How about instead of the rune golems being simple magic constructs, they instead house the spirits of ancestors sort of like the wraith constructs Eldar have in 40k. Call them Living Ancestors or something, too stubborn to truly die. I'm not sure how this would work fluffwise with Nagash and his claim on all souls. He's already pretty mad at Sigmar for cheating him. Grungni and the seven smiths are the ones who created the reforging process, maybe the Living Ancestors are a more primitive and single use method. The spirit gets transferred, but  the spirit is lost if the construct is broken.

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28 minutes ago, Ironbreaker said:

This something I've been thinking of in order to further push Dispossessed into a direction we've never really seen before. How about instead of the rune golems being simple magic constructs, they instead house the spirits of ancestors sort of like the wraith constructs Eldar have in 40k. Call them Living Ancestors or something, too stubborn to truly die. I'm not sure how this would work fluffwise with Nagash and his claim on all souls. He's already pretty mad at Sigmar for cheating him. Grungni and the seven smiths are the ones who created the reforging process, maybe the Living Ancestors are a more primitive and single use method. The spirit gets transferred, but  the spirit is lost if the construct is broken.

I'm sure theres an easy way to do a mini recton on how dwarf souls work. Especially since there is a distinct lack of non-human Death models.

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I was looking at Celestial Hurricanum as for late, and it struck me that most of the rules it has would perfectly fit Disposssed "Anvil of Doom" equivalent. Storm of Shemtek works well as "Rune of Shattering", +1 to hit is some generic "buff from ancients" etc. 

In general its also good for Dispossed to proxy old (great) Anvil and just use "ally" and rules from celestial hurricanum. 

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18 minutes ago, eciu said:

I was looking at Celestial Hurricanum as for late, and it struck me that most of the rules it has would perfectly fit Disposssed "Anvil of Doom" equivalent. Storm of Shemtek works well as "Rune of Shattering", +1 to hit is some generic "buff from ancients" etc. 

In general its also good for Dispossed to proxy old (great) Anvil and just use "ally" and rules from celestial hurricanum. 

I'm currently building a dwarfen hurricanum from the old steam tank, the old anvil of doom, grudge ponys and some parts of the hurricanum itself. I also think it fits well. The storm of shemtek could be rune infused cannonballs and the spell a rune that brings forth the wrath of grungni or grimnir.

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36 minutes ago, eciu said:

I was looking at Celestial Hurricanum as for late, and it struck me that most of the rules it has would perfectly fit Disposssed "Anvil of Doom" equivalent. Storm of Shemtek works well as "Rune of Shattering", +1 to hit is some generic "buff from ancients" etc. 

In general its also good for Dispossed to proxy old (great) Anvil and just use "ally" and rules from celestial hurricanum. 

Yes exactly!  That’s the type of thing we need for sure!

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Hello guys !

Just to expand on the idea of fortifications that I talked about before:

I didn't say we should be a static army as T'au are, and wait for the enemy to come to us.

The idea behind these artillery-fortification was to
1) Allow us to hit enemy long range without deepstriking
2) Force the enemy to move towards our own advancing lines, instead of staying in the back and shooting

Also, to get it balanced, we could have a new type of relatively cheap/weak battleline such as engineers/builders. The more units of engineers you have, the more "free" fortification terrain you can have at the beginning of the battle. Or you could get the to build it closer to enemy line if you manage to get your engineers there.

Having the Dispossessed being the fortification/building army doesn't mean they have to stay static in the back and shoot until turn 5. On the contrary, it should be an incentive to both the Dispossessed player (who wants to build in the middle) and to the enemy player (who wants to get out of range, under-the-nose of super artillery) to charge in the center.

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An idea i had on the fly in an @Oath Stoned reddit post is a Steam Tank like drill that combine the Steam tank role and the Pickaxe idea.

It does drill a tunnel and let one unit follow him to deepstrike! Wouldn't it be a good behemot? 

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Seeing some of the other posts here, I was also inspired to share some of my conversion plans of the Collegiate stuff.

https://imgur.com/a/Sb873fn

It's still heavily WIP, but I would appreciate your thoughts,

The griffon is  quite a natural fit in my opinion. For the Battlemage on a Griffon,  all I had to do is just take the Runeson from the magmadroth kit with a spear. The riders are a snug fit, but they are easy to swap and I didnt need to glue anything down so I can still use him on a magmadroth if i wanted to. I can also swap to the original riders on the Griffon if It was necessary. The original warscroll for the mage even has an Amber Spear spell :D. I was planning to make the spear look like a spell being cast to reflect that. 

I laid the Hurricanum's sun down sideways so it would be kind of like a magical "forge fire". The staff is right in front of the anvil and is intended to be a sort of rune casting "focus" for all of those nasty Wrath and Ruin types of targeted things.  In my imagination when he strikes the rune the staff acts like a magical guiding beacon or locus of somekind. The whole thing rotates at the base as well as the dome (the way the Hurricanum normaly does),
I was thinking that maybe it would be better to cut the base of the anvil shorter? So its about the size of the dome on the hurricanum itself? Something still feels a bit off for now.

Edited by Marrdt
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1 hour ago, Dammaz said:

Hi fellow Dawi !

Since last @Ironbreaker post, I've been thinking about this idea of Ancient golem for our little dorfs.

Here is the result !  Enjoy !

ancient-warden.pdf

Good Grugni, it's a bit broken! I mean, i like it but 3+ save, ignore -1/2 rend and nurgle 5+ save! 🤣

The damage output is high. Would cost around 600-700 points, i guess.

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