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AoS 2 - Dispossessed Discussion


Chris Tomlin

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7 minutes ago, Zadolix said:

Hi all, I'm new to AoS (but play a bunch of 40k and other scifi systems) and I dug out a huge dwarf force that I had in my loft from my WHFB days as a teenager, most of the sculpts are battle for skull pass or metal OOP ones. I've been reading up on things but would like a bit of assistance trying to make something out what I've got. I'm encountering a problem though in that some of my units and artillery are part Dwarf / part dispossessed / part Ironweld so I don't know what to do. If I played Grand Alliance Order would it work okay?

Can I make a decent list out of what I've got without having to buy more stuff? Also is there a way I could run a decent dispossessed allegiance list at 1k so I can get this pickaxe I oft keep reading about. Thanks fellow beards!

Heres what I've got in total:

Allegiance: Order

Leaders
Warden King (120)
Warden King (120)
Runelord (100)
Unforged (100)
Cogsmith (100)

Battleline
20 x Warriors (160) (Have 2 lots of command so can be 2 x 10)
- Axes or Hammers & Shields
10 x Longbeards (100)
- Great Axes & Shields

Units
20 x Ironbreakers (280) (Have 2 lots of command so can be 2 x 10)
20 x Thunderers (240) (Have 2 lots of command so can be 2 x 10)
10 x Miners (120)

War Machines
Duardin Bolt Thrower (120)
Grudge Thrower (180)
Cannon (160)
Cannon (160)

Total: 2060 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 127

So, yes, you have some unit that nowaday are Dispossessed allies and some legacy unit that you cannot field in tournaments (but a good talk with your opponent could let you field them in friendly games).

Cogsmith and cannons are now to ally, Miners, Duardin bolt thrower and grudge thrower are legacy units and not tournament viable.

For a 1000 points game you can ally up to 200 points, for a 2000 points game you can ally up to 400.
A good list, in my opinion, using your units is:

1000 points

Warden King (120)

Runelord (100)

[30 warriors (using your 20 plus the 10 miners as 2hweapon chaps) (240)  ] OR [20 Ironbreakers  (280)]

10 longbeards  (100)

20 Thunderers (240)

Cannon  (160) (ally)

Total 960 or 1000

Warden king+ Runelord + Logbeards are a classic setup for good buffs to you units, the cannon can serve to zone or force your opponent to engage! Good Stuffs!
To enhance your options i suggest 20 Irondrakes, with them you should have a good shot at a 2000 points list ;)

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Thanks @Furuzzolo, what are your thoughts on the grudge thrower and bolt thrower? Are these pretty unplayable now then? Am I right in thinking that the Warden King and Runelords abilities don't buff these artillery because they don't have the dispossessed keyword? If so this is very sad as I love the models :(

Would something like this work? Keeping the dispossessed allegiance so I can get the pickaxe and let the thunderers and bolt thrower pelt the enemy with a tough screen of advancing warriors, longbeards and ironbreakers in front? My thinking is the longbeards could make the Ironbreakers a hammer while the longbeards and warriors tarpit whatever comes with shield wall. Then maybe the Warden King and thunderers can drop rudely in with the pickaxe. 

Allegiance: Dispossessed

Leaders
Warden King (120)
Runelord (100)

Battleline
20 x Warriors (160)
- Axes or Hammers & Shields
10 x Longbeards (100)
- Great Axes & Shields
10 x Ironbreakers (140)

Units
20 x Thunderers (240)

War Machines
Duardin Bolt Thrower (120)
- Allies

Total: 980 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 120 / 200
Wounds: 77
 

 

 

Edited by Zadolix
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4 minutes ago, Zadolix said:

Am I right in thinking that the Warden King and Runelords abilities don't buff these artillery because they don't have the dispossessed keyword?

Yes. You can play the beautiful Duardin bolt thrower model as an Organ Gun, from the ironweld arsenal. The rules are quite matching ;)

 

Regarding your list i like it, Ironbreakers at 1000 points give you a very bad wound/points ratio, tho. If i had to build a list i wound bring 20 or 0.

But it's proved that i'm not the best competitive list builder in here!  Play what you think is best and let us know what you think of them after the game.

The "Dispossessed Discussion" is a very good place to learn, we have no absolute truth and we all bring our personal experience.

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14 minutes ago, Furuzzolo said:

Yes. You can play the beautiful Duardin bolt thrower model as an Organ Gun, from the ironweld arsenal. The rules are quite matching ;)

 

Regarding your list i like it, Ironbreakers at 1000 points give you a very bad wound/points ratio, tho. If i had to build a list i wound bring 20 or 0.

But it's proved that i'm not the best competitive list builder in here!  Play what you think is best and let us know what you think of them after the game.

The "Dispossessed Discussion" is a very good place to learn, we have no absolute truth and we all bring our personal experience.

haha point taken ;) I wish I had one!! Younger me went with dual cannons it seems. I only play casual with friends but they like to play 'by the book' a little bit so I try not to proxy where I can!

Something I've just noticed, I'm not sure if they will let me ally 'Dwarfs' with dispossessed though as 'Dwarfs' isn't in the list of allies in the general's handbook...will have to speak to them and see. Otherwise I might be forced to run the cannon instead for it to be legal. Maybe try warriors as you say for more bodies and bit more of a footprint on the table.

Allegiance: Dispossessed
- Grudge: Shoddy Craftsmanship

Leaders
Warden King (120)
- General
- Trait: Resolute 
- Artefact: Ancestral Pickaxe 
Runelord (100)

Battleline
10 x Longbeards (100)
- Great Axes & Shields
20 x Warriors (160)
- Axes or Hammers & Shields
10 x Warriors (80)
- Double-handed Duardin Axes & Shields

Units
20 x Thunderers (240)

War Machines
Cannon (160)
- Allies

Total: 960 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 160 / 200
Wounds: 74
 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Wargamergunnar said:

Thoughts? Suggestions? 

I like your idea and i think you arte on the right path, here is the list i would play:

120 Warden King  (pickaxe) 

100 Runelord

100 Runelord

120 Auric Runesmiter

360 Ironbreakers (30)

320 Hammerers (20)

200 Longbeards (20)

80 Warriors (10)

240 Vulkite Berzerkers (20)

360 Irondrakes (20)

So, the tunneling plans remain and is pretty good but the Vulkite berzerkers have a much more presence on the board with their 20 wounds with double save.

Why 20 hammerers? 10 hammerer could be shout down pretty easily, i wouldn't waste a runelord buff on 10 hammerers, much better give it to 20 longbeards or 30 breakers. 20 of them are another story, tho, pretty killy and resilient.

10 warriors for objective and screen, very good to soack a charge and setup an hammerer or ironbreaker countercharge.

The copter is very underwelming right now, sadly.

20 hammerers gives you a decent alternative to irondrakes for the pickaxe, flanking an objective with 20 hammerers and 20 vulkite berserkers is scary, very scary. Sometimes you don't want to move your drakes from the bulk of your army and ironbreaker and longbeards wound output is very low without buffs.

That's the way i would play them! ;)

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My store is doing a league here soon and i have tons of dwarfs some made lots in boxes. Im going to be mixed dwarves rather than just dispossesed.

 

my 1k so far

runefather on magmadroth with the thermalrider cloak

Runelord

 

20 warriors

 

20 vulkites 

 

6x skywardens kitted with drill cannons and volley guns. (Could be endrins i just dont got em built that way) 

 

I like it because its two healthy blobs that can move up the field and two fast moving flyers that can flank and get objectives. 

 

The real questions is the command trait, item and magmadroth in general.

 

The magmadroth is a good speedbump for my dwarves to get into position and an excellent flanker also really great at 2 places of power. But hes coming at the cost of warriors instead of longbeards.  So are the skywardens. So here are some ideas have for trying to achieve the same thing but with longbeards

 

Runefather > rune smitter. Less pain but can buff the vulkites

 

Skywardens > runesmitter. Two droths

 

-3 Skywardens > grundstocks or a celestar balista 

 

runelord > battlemage with mystifying or wildform

 

Edited by Bozly
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4 hours ago, Furuzzolo said:

I like your idea and i think you arte on the right path, here is the list i would play:

120 Warden King  (pickaxe) 

100 Runelord

100 Runelord

120 Auric Runesmiter

360 Ironbreakers (30)

320 Hammerers (20)

200 Longbeards (20)

80 Warriors (10)

240 Vulkite Berzerkers (20)

360 Irondrakes (20)

So, the tunneling plans remain and is pretty good but the Vulkite berzerkers have a much more presence on the board with their 20 wounds with double save.

Why 20 hammerers? 10 hammerer could be shout down pretty easily, i wouldn't waste a runelord buff on 10 hammerers, much better give it to 20 longbeards or 30 breakers. 20 of them are another story, tho, pretty killy and resilient.

10 warriors for objective and screen, very good to soack a charge and setup an hammerer or ironbreaker countercharge.

The copter is very underwelming right now, sadly.

20 hammerers gives you a decent alternative to irondrakes for the pickaxe, flanking an objective with 20 hammerers and 20 vulkite berserkers is scary, very scary. Sometimes you don't want to move your drakes from the bulk of your army and ironbreaker and longbeards wound output is very low without buffs.

That's the way i would play them! ;)

Why the vulkite instead of the Hearthguard? I’m digging the list!

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So, what are your ideas regarding the new generals handbook? Gw asked the community and I wanted to write them an email anyway regarding other factions. I'd like them to change our runic icon to "can roll to ignore spells on 5+". At the moment our opponent can use chromatic cogs and we sometimes don't even get the extra move and charge range. Regarding cogs in dispossessed Id like for all free city factions to gain the collegiate arcane as allies. A hurricanum, luminark or battlemages would really help out most factions (even fits in lorewise with endless spells everywhere and them lending a hand). We could gain a hurricanum or battlemage +  cogs from it to counter our low speed a little. If possible it would be nice for them to tweak our allegiance abilities a bit for more mobility. In another forum someone thought ofremoving the pickaxe and giving all heroes the once per battle ability. There is also the option to give us tunnel exits/entrances like the gravesites from death. The pickaxe (and miners, if they ever come back) adding new ones. I also thought of some ways to balance this huge mobility increase. In kill point matches I do really well with my dwarfs but I struggle regarding objectives and some point drops won't really change that sadly. Do you also have anything that would help? If we propose our ideas to GW maybe something will change.

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4 minutes ago, AlmGandix3 said:

So, what are your ideas regarding the new generals handbook? Gw asked the community and I wanted to write them an email anyway regarding other factions. I'd like them to change our runic icon to "can roll to ignore spells on 5+". At the moment our opponent can use chromatic cogs and we sometimes don't even get the extra move and charge range. Regarding cogs in dispossessed Id like for all free city factions to gain the collegiate arcane as allies. A hurricanum, luminark or battlemages would really help out most factions (even fits in lorewise with endless spells everywhere and them lending a hand). We could gain a hurricanum or battlemage +  cogs from it to counter our low speed a little. If possible it would be nice for them to tweak our allegiance abilities a bit for more mobility. In another forum someone thought ofremoving the pickaxe and giving all heroes the once per battle ability. There is also the option to give us tunnel exits/entrances like the gravesites from death. The pickaxe (and miners, if they ever come back) adding new ones. I also thought of some ways to balance this huge mobility increase. In kill point matches I do really well with my dwarfs but I struggle regarding objectives and some point drops won't really change that sadly. Do you also have anything that would help? If we propose our ideas to GW maybe something will change.

Honestly I’m ok with us being slow, it’s part of the fluff.  Currently I’d say use allies if you want speed. I’m tempted to put in a unit of 6    Prosecutors into the army instead of the fyreslayers 

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4 minutes ago, AlmGandix3 said:

So, what are your ideas regarding the new generals handbook? Gw asked the community and I wanted to write them an email anyway regarding other factions. I'd like them to change our runic icon to "can roll to ignore spells on 5+". At the moment our opponent can use chromatic cogs and we sometimes don't even get the extra move and charge range. Regarding cogs in dispossessed Id like for all free city factions to gain the collegiate arcane as allies. A hurricanum, luminark or battlemages would really help out most factions (even fits in lorewise with endless spells everywhere and them lending a hand). We could gain a hurricanum or battlemage +  cogs from it to counter our low speed a little. If possible it would be nice for them to tweak our allegiance abilities a bit for more mobility. In another forum someone thought ofremoving the pickaxe and giving all heroes the once per battle ability. There is also the option to give us tunnel exits/entrances like the gravesites from death. The pickaxe (and miners, if they ever come back) adding new ones. I also thought of some ways to balance this huge mobility increase. In kill point matches I do really well with my dwarfs but I struggle regarding objectives and some point drops won't really change that sadly. Do you also have anything that would help? If we propose our ideas to GW maybe something will change.

I think things for Dispossessed will be pretty uneventful unless we get a surprise  battletome out of nowhere. One thing I'd like to be changed is the Runelord being unable to dispel endless spells. I'm not sure if I would want collegiate arcane as allies for fluff reasons because Dispossessed are supposed to be an anti-spell casting army at least from my understanding and the old lore for the army in WHFB. The extra movement abilities sound more like something that would come with a battletome update rather than GHB. I just hope we stick it out and don't get wiped from the game like Gitmob.

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We have to wait! If they print a skaven and FEC book that does leave a lot of space for abilities in the ghb 😉

5 hours ago, Wargamergunnar said:

Why the vulkite instead of the Hearthguard?

So, we compare them at similar points 200x10 guard, 240x 20 vulkite and the berserker do bring 20 wounds with 4+ save (shield, not charging) with 4+ extrasave till they are 20, 5+ till they are 10+. They shield let them mortal wounds on charge.

The hearthguards are very good, don't get me wrong but we already have high damage output ranged that can teleport in irondrakes; they are the primary pickaxe target and i would gladly pair them with a vulkite meat shield to create a resilient deepstrike where the opponent have to invest way more that he want. 

If you teleport guard and drakes you get charged to oblivion in you don't land critical damages.

But again, i don't like the look of fyreslayer, i tried them but my best advice is always to play the models you like.

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What do we think is the future of the current dispossessed kits?  I can see the longboard/hammerer kit and ironbreaker/irondrake kits carrying on, along with the artillery and gyrocopter kits too. But don’t the characters come with square bases with moulded on details?  And don’t the warrior/marksmen come in an odd number?  16, when they’re bought in batches of 10?

That’s easily fixed of course (just cram in another sprue), but are they ‘up’ to current standards?  And what about the characters too?

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31 minutes ago, Arkanaut Admiral said:

What do we think is the future of the current dispossessed kits?  I can see the longboard/hammerer kit and ironbreaker/irondrake kits carrying on, along with the artillery and gyrocopter kits too. But don’t the characters come with square bases with moulded on details?  And don’t the warrior/marksmen come in an odd number?  16, when they’re bought in batches of 10?

That’s easily fixed of course (just cram in another sprue), but are they ‘up’ to current standards?  And what about the characters too?

I have a bit of history with that as I worked as an on call manager with GW when the dwarfs were coming out for 8th ed. 

I say with confidence that all the newer (gyrocopter, longbeards, ironbreakers, runelord etc) will stick around. 

 

The issue of square bases is delt with by just including a circle base, they did it for some seraphon stuff and the lore master from Eldritch council   

 

I hope that the warriors get a new kit but seeing how they’ve already been reboxed twice it wouldn’t surprise me if they stay the way they are. 

 Compared to gitmob that literally didn’t have any models that were with in 7-8th ed fantasy I’m not surprised they go cut. I am surprised that they didn’t say last chance to buy though 

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5 hours ago, Furuzzolo said:

We have to wait! If they print a skaven and FEC book that does leave a lot of space for abilities in the ghb 😉

So, we compare them at similar points 200x10 guard, 240x 20 vulkite and the berserker do bring 20 wounds with 4+ save (shield, not charging) with 4+ extrasave till they are 20, 5+ till they are 10+. They shield let them mortal wounds on charge.

The hearthguards are very good, don't get me wrong but we already have high damage output ranged that can teleport in irondrakes; they are the primary pickaxe target and i would gladly pair them with a vulkite meat shield to create a resilient deepstrike where the opponent have to invest way more that he want. 

If you teleport guard and drakes you get charged to oblivion in you don't land critical damages.

But again, i don't like the look of fyreslayer, i tried them but my best advice is always to play the models you like.

I didn’t like they when they first came out, but keeping in a dispossessed theme I wouldn’t mind having one unit of “slayers” I also considered taking 6  prosecutors instead of the fyreslayers but I think I’d rather go all dwarves to start with. Thanks mate for the advice! It’s kinda funny that if I go with the fyreslayers allies than I might as well get two of the start collecting boxes due to the value of the box and I don’t even want to collect an army of em! 

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2 hours ago, Wargamergunnar said:

I have a bit of history with that as I worked as an on call manager with GW when the dwarfs were coming out for 8th ed. 

I say with confidence that all the newer (gyrocopter, longbeards, ironbreakers, runelord etc) will stick around. 

 

The issue of square bases is delt with by just including a circle base, they did it for some seraphon stuff and the lore master from Eldritch council   

 

I hope that the warriors get a new kit but seeing how they’ve already been reboxed twice it wouldn’t surprise me if they stay the way they are. 

 Compared to gitmob that literally didn’t have any models that were with in 7-8th ed fantasy I’m not surprised they go cut. I am surprised that they didn’t say last chance to buy though 

If Dispossessed do get a range update like daughter s did, which is a good chance given the state of their current line, I think it would be hard to carry over the Thunderers, and warriors. They're just such an outdated sculpt compared to the newer Ironbreakers/ longbeards, ect.  I mean, "These dwarves use crossbows " doesn't exactly scream Age of Sigmar, fantasy considering we have flying steampunk dwarves and naked, literally on fire, fyreslayers.

The old viking helmets just don't fit it at all, and considering miners are already 86'ed, and they have such a strong theme with the heavily armored dwarves released in 8th edition, they have to be focusing on those for inspiration. The rub is the fact warriors were re boxed, which seems to telegraph that they're here to stay. I don't know when they were re-boxed though, so maybe they do get dropped if GW picks up an idea that they like.

Personally, I'm hopefully that those dwarven statues/tapestries in the new moonclan kit are a hint of things to come. Not so much an easter egg, but they've said multiple times in interviews how the rules and lore writers take a backseat in terms of inspiration. That it's generally the modeling team that comes up with something, and then the writers work that idea into the story. Not a stretch to imagine the model team, after working on the Moonclan, might have their minds stray to dwarves well doing the ruins.

Regardless, I don't expect anything for atleast a year and a half. Maybe even 2 more years of waiting. Current rumors just don't reflect us at all, it's all Chaos/Slaanesh and more elves. Combine in the additional ranges that could already support a battletome, the updated books/ ranges some are sure to get, and the inevitable stormcast releases... It's going to be a long time.
 

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6 hours ago, Shankelton said:


Regardless, I don't expect anything for atleast a year and a half. Maybe even 2 more years of waiting. Current rumors just don't reflect us at all, it's all Chaos/Slaanesh and more elves. Combine in the additional ranges that could already support a battletome, the updated books/ ranges some are sure to get, and the inevitable stormcast releases... It's going to be a long time.
 

What are the actual rumors of new elves? I keep hearing people say there are rumors of new elves, but I have yet to hear them? I have a feeling we might get something next year honestly. Whether or not we’re combined within a free cities battletome or get our own book, they’re running out of other armies to even update. 

Also I guess I’m the only one that hopes the warriors/thunderers/quarrellers stay? I agree they are aging, but overall I think they look ok, and if they all got removed than I think we would be missing some cool units. 

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1 minute ago, Ragnar Alpaca said:

Also I guess I’m the only one that hopes the warriors/thunderers/quarrellers stay? 

I'd like for them to stay also. Even though they are old, they are probobly one of my favorite models to paint. I also don't want to have to buy whatever expensive kit that would replace my hoard of warriors.

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19 minutes ago, Ragnar Alpaca said:

 

Also I guess I’m the only one that hopes the warriors/thunderers/quarrellers stay? I agree they are aging, but overall I think they look ok, and if they all got removed than I think we would be missing some cool units. 

To each there own. Losing options is a bummer, but I just look at them in comparison to the newer kits and feel they don't mesh.  Atleast not in the way you'd expect for a world like AoS. I'm new to fantasy with AoS as well, so I don't have the history with the range that others do. 

As for the elf rumors, it's all really hersay at the moment. The current rumors are general rumblings that Malerions shadow elves and Tyrions Light elves are on the horizon. Most of the latter is simply people extrapolating those random rumors and linking them to Slaanesh. Feeling that one must herald the others. No models, or legitimate evidence has been spoiled/ mined to my knowledge. Outside the two shadow elf models that came up with Silvertower.

That's the glory about rumors though. Dwarves could drop next week lol. I'm just taking the most pessimistic outlook, so I surprise myself (Hopefully xD).

As for who would replace warriors/ Thunderers.... I'd have to imagine Ironbreakers/Drakes. Even retiring those two kits we have tons of infantry. I figure a release will be bringing the centre pieces/ elite troops in some kind of fantastical flavor.

 

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43 minutes ago, Bozly said:

What does a current dispossesed or mixed dwarf tournament list look like?

Doubt you'd see them on the high end of any competitive list. That being said, did a little googling and apparently they they placed fairly high in a large Australian tournament.  Bit outdated, maybe even before GHB 2018, but here it is. List belongs to Dan Saye in Cancon 2018.

 

Leaders
Warden King (120)
– General
– Trait: Grudgebearer
Runelord (80)
– Artefact: Ancestral Pickaxe
Runelord (80)
Celestant-Prime (340)
– Allies

Battleline
10 x Warriors (80)
– Double-handed Duardin Axes & Shields
10 x Warriors (80)
– Double-handed Duardin Axes & Shields
10 x Longbeards (120)
– Great Axes & Shields

Units
20 x Quarrellers (240)
20 x Irondrakes (400)
30 x Ironbreakers (400)
1 x Gryph-Hound (40)
– Allies

Total: 1980 / 2000
Allies: 380 / 400

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20 hours ago, Furuzzolo said:

We have to wait! If they print a skaven and FEC book that does leave a lot of space for abilities in the ghb 😉

So, we compare them at similar points 200x10 guard, 240x 20 vulkite and the berserker do bring 20 wounds with 4+ save (shield, not charging) with 4+ extrasave till they are 20, 5+ till they are 10+. They shield let them mortal wounds on charge.

The hearthguards are very good, don't get me wrong but we already have high damage output ranged that can teleport in irondrakes; they are the primary pickaxe target and i would gladly pair them with a vulkite meat shield to create a resilient deepstrike where the opponent have to invest way more that he want. 

If you teleport guard and drakes you get charged to oblivion in you don't land critical damages.

But again, i don't like the look of fyreslayer, i tried them but my best advice is always to play the models you like.

What weapons would you give the longbeards and the normal warriors? I’m thinkg two handed great axes just based off of rend and looks. 

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1 hour ago, Shankelton said:

Doubt you'd see them on the high end of any competitive list. That being said, did a little googling and apparently they they placed fairly high in a large Australian tournament.  Bit outdated, maybe even before GHB 2018, but here it is. List belongs to Dan Saye in Cancon 2018.

 

Leaders
Warden King (120)
– General
– Trait: Grudgebearer
Runelord (80)
– Artefact: Ancestral Pickaxe
Runelord (80)
Celestant-Prime (340)
– Allies

Battleline
10 x Warriors (80)
– Double-handed Duardin Axes & Shields
10 x Warriors (80)
– Double-handed Duardin Axes & Shields
10 x Longbeards (120)
– Great Axes & Shields

Units
20 x Quarrellers (240)
20 x Irondrakes (400)
30 x Ironbreakers (400)
1 x Gryph-Hound (40)
– Allies

Total: 1980 / 2000
Allies: 380 / 400

Sadly Gryph-Hound's can now only be bought in packs (so more points) and they only work for stormcast now. 

There was another list of dispossessed that placed pretty high on a tournament. I think it was 7th place.

 

Allegiance: Dispossessed

Warden King (General, Grudgebearer)
Warden King
Runelord (Ancestral Pickaxe)
Celestant-Prime (Ally)

10 Longbeards (Great Axes and Shields)
10 Longbeards (Great Axes and Shields)
40 Warriors (Runic Icon, Double-handed Axes and Shields)
30 Ironbreakers
20 Irondrakes

18 minutes ago, Wargamergunnar said:

What weapons would you give the longbeards and the normal warriors? I’m thinkg two handed great axes just based off of rend and looks. 

You can use two handed weapons together with shields, both for warriors and longboards.

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