AoS 2 - Dispossessed Discussion

[Arkanaut Admiral]

1 hour ago, Arkhanist said:

Yeah, the website link is incorrect and just points to the unit page. You have to follow the same pattern of other URLs for warscrolls and substitute hammerers to get their warscroll i.e.

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos_hammerers_eng.pdf

Thank you! ^^

[Broken Netcode]

4 minutes ago, Arkhanist said:

 

The old 'sit back and shoot them to pieces because we're hard as nails' style is definitely dead with the loss of canons, organ guns, quarrelers and thunderers and the loss of re-roll saves. Ironweld + greywater fastness + freeguild bubblewrap I think is the new gunline army.

Cannons are not all lost though! The Blacksmoke Battery lets us take them still, and with our new Gyrocopters thats even better!

 

One question ive been wondering, is if you can take 2 runelords and do the extra rend prayer twice. Having 2 units of 20 Irondrakes, running up the board and then shooting with -2 rend guns is bloody brilliant in my mind if its possible!

[Arkhanist]

4 minutes ago, Broken Netcode said:

Cannons are not all lost though! The Blacksmoke Battery lets us take them still, and with our new Gyrocopters thats even better!

 

One question ive been wondering, is if you can take 2 runelords and do the extra rend prayer twice. Having 2 units of 20 Irondrakes, running up the board and then shooting with -2 rend guns is bloody brilliant in my mind if its possible!

That's true; though Blacksmoke Battery has the old rules for crew with separate profiles though, so can get shot to pieces quite easily, and won't benefit from the city allegience rules IIRC as mercenaries. And of course you can take the new warscrolls (as latest published) in an entire dispossessed army using the GHB rules along with all the old units still, so they're not totally dead for at least another year. But I think CoS has too many buffs overall to ignore. That said, I'm unconvinced of the wisdom of buying new old 'pre AoS' ironweld/freeguild/elf units etc to replace ones that just got squatted, but that may be just me...

With regards multiple rend, there's nothing in the new warscroll that prevents multiple runesmith prayers applying at once, nor the main rules IIRC, and the general consensus was that the rend prayer stacked before the new wording, so no reason I can see why they won't now. Hammerers with longbeard, runesmith and king buffs will be downright nasty (the longbeard re-roll of 1s to wound will also generate extra MW on hammerers if you roll 6s!)

[Broken Netcode]

7 minutes ago, Arkhanist said:

That's true; though Blacksmoke Battery has the old rules for crew with separate profiles though, so can get shot to pieces quite easily, and won't benefit from the city allegience rules IIRC as mercenaries. And of course you can take the new warscrolls (as latest published) in an entire dispossessed army using the GHB rules along with all the old units still, so they're not totally dead for at least another year. But I think CoS has too many buffs overall to ignore. That said, I'm unconvinced of the wisdom of buying new old 'pre AoS' ironweld/freeguild/elf units etc to replace ones that just got squatted, but that may be just me...

With regards multiple rend, there's nothing in the new warscroll that prevents multiple runesmith prayers applying at once, nor the main rules IIRC, and the general consensus was that the rend prayer stacked before the new wording, so no reason I can see why they won't now. Hammerers with longbeard, runesmith and king buffs will be downright nasty (the longbeard re-roll of 1s to wound will also generate extra MW on hammerers if you roll 6s!)

Thats excellent! Im absolutely doing an army with 2 units of 20 Irondrakes with a runelord following both then! 20/40 shots if static hitting on 2's, with -2 rend will put out a lot of pain a turn. And being able to run and shoot makes an amazing 24.5" threat bubble.

Just need to work out whats going with gotrek at this point, and its looking like its gonna be hammerers with the fact im taking 2 runelords!

I think my list is going to look something like this: 
 

Allegiance: Greywater Fastness
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders
Runelord (90)
- General
- Trait: Ghyran Mere Ranger
- Artefact: Betty's Magnificent Magnifier
Runelord (90)
Gotrek Gurnisson (520)
- Allies

Battleline
20 x Hammerers (280) - Battleline if Dispossessed General
20 x Irondrakes (300) - Battleline if Duardin General
20 x Irondrakes (300) - Battleline if Duardin General

War Machines
3 x Gyrocopters (180)
- Gun: Steam Gun
Celestar Ballista (110)
Celestar Ballista (110)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 520 / 400
Wounds: 104

[Chikout]

I'm confused. Did everyone miss that the save on the ironbreakers and irondrakes has gone from 4+ to 3+ ? A flat 3+ save is much better than 4+ ignoring -1 rend. Isn't it???

[Syrex]

1 hour ago, Chikout said:

I'm confused. Did everyone miss that the save on the ironbreakers and irondrakes has gone from 4+ to 3+ ? A flat 3+ save is much better than 4+ ignoring -1 rend. Isn't it???

Irondrakes are still 4+ (Ironbreakers are 3+).
The reason people aren't happy is that not only did Ironbreakers lose the ignore -1 rend (Gaining 3+ which is clearly better), they completely lost their shield ability.

Dispossessed wasn't exactly running around winning Tournaments, so where buffs were needed, sidegrades/nerfs were given.
Comparing the Dispossessed units to others available in the cities is not exactly a favourable experience. Hammerers are an exception, they're pretty decent.
 

[Arkhanist]

6 hours ago, Chikout said:

I'm confused. Did everyone miss that the save on the ironbreakers and irondrakes has gone from 4+ to 3+ ? A flat 3+ save is much better than 4+ ignoring -1 rend. Isn't it???

I'm going to do the maths for ironbreakers, as this seems to be neverending.

(edit: added more units)

 

chance of save against:	Rend 0	Rend -1	Rend -2	Rend -3
old 4+ (hammerers, running longbeards)	50%	33.33%	16.67%	0%
old 4+ with shield re-roll  (longbeards)	75%	55.56%	30.56%	0%
old 4+, ignoring -1 rend (running ironbreakers, irondrakes)	50%	50%	16.67%	0%
old 4+, ignoring -1 rend with shield re-roll (ironbreakers that didn't run)	75%	75%	30.56%	0%
new 3+ (ironbreakers, irondrakes against missiles, shield longbeards against melee)	66.67%	50%	33.33%	16.67%
new 4+ (hammerers, irondrakes against melee, longbeards w/o shields or missile attacks)	50%	33.33%	16.67%	0%

 

 

So. The new ironbreaker 3+ is only better than the old against rend -2 up, and rend 0 when you run. This also ignores the loss of the 5+ against spells.

Irondrakes are better off against missile attacks, worse against -1 rend melee attacks and no 5+ spell save.

Hammerers are unchanged (no surprise!)

Longbeards are worse off in most circumstances from losing the re-roll and shields entirely with 2H axes, though shield longbeards now get a 6+ save against -3 rend melee attacks they didn't before...

Edited September 29, 2019 by Arkhanist
expanded to more units

[Dammaz]

@Arkhanist

Insert "Thank you" GIF.

[AlmGandix3]

I just read the rules for the endless spell boat and irondrakes. They can only blaze away if they did not "make a move" so are they still able to double tap via teleports?

[Azamar]

Reposting from the Kharadrons thread- a list I’ve been thinking about this morning.

 

I like the idea of using tempest’s eye to make a true combined duardin list- something like (if I’ve got the new points right):

warden king (general)

Runelord

Runelord

battle line:

30 ironbreakers

30 hammerers

10  longbeards 

others:

10 grundstock thunderers

kharadron frigate

3 gyrocopters

allies:

grimwrath berserker

10 hearthguard berserkers 

 

How well that would synergise with the tempest eye’s rule’s I don’t know- I may well be better splitting the dispossessed into smaller units,  but I like the idea of having a combination of fast objective grabbers (gyrocopters and the Kharadrons), heavy hitters to grind up the field (berserkers and the hammerers) and a meaty block of ironbreakers in Defense (ok they’ve been inexplicably nerfed, but 30 models with a 3+ save/ 6+ invun, and battleshock immunity if I hang the king back, is still tough to shift. 

[zilberfrid]

I'm not telling how to run things, of course, but if you are looking for conversion food to be big stuff, maybe the Castellan Robots from AdMech would fith the aesthetic?

The look a bit dwarfy (a bit like gyrocopter in roundness vs greebliness), and with a few copter blades could make for an adequate General on Griffin standin.

In the lore, this could easily be mining machinery adapted for war.

[Kramer]

2 hours ago, Azamar said:

Reposting from the Kharadrons thread- a list I’ve been thinking about this morning.

 

I like the idea of using tempest’s eye to make a true combined duardin list- something like (if I’ve got the new points right):

warden king (general)

Runelord

Runelord

battle line:

30 ironbreakers

30 hammerers

10  longbeards 

others:

10 grundstock thunderers

kharadron frigate

3 gyrocopters

allies:

grimwrath berserker

10 hearthguard berserkers 

 

How well that would synergise with the tempest eye’s rule’s I don’t know- I may well be better splitting the dispossessed into smaller units,  but I like the idea of having a combination of fast objective grabbers (gyrocopters and the Kharadrons), heavy hitters to grind up the field (berserkers and the hammerers) and a meaty block of ironbreakers in Defense (ok they’ve been inexplicably nerfed, but 30 models with a 3+ save/ 6+ invun, and battleshock immunity if I hang the king back, is still tough to shift. 

Grimwrath is awesome... but i’d personally go for the runesmiter first. The frigate as a transport is deceptively slow. So I would (and successfully experimented with) deepstriking the bezerkers forward the most and getting the thunderers behind them. Now your opponent needs to do something  or accept getting shot. 

But in the end we’ll only know when we try the new rules right  

[Arkanaut Admiral]

I’m trying to stay positive about the changes.  They just might work out.  But is anyone else a little saddened by the discontinuation of the Duardin artillery?

Here’s the thing; there are several aelf factions (Phoenix Guard, Wanderers, Shadowblades etc) and several human factions (freeguild, colligate arcane, devoted of Sigmar etc.) but only one duardin faction, the dispossessed.  Wouldn’t it have been nice if the Ironweld Arsenal was primarily another Duardin faction?  The Cogsmith as the character, then the two artillery weapons and fliers as its units, and then they could have the steam tank and human artillery weapons too... or not.  Either way, I just think that it was premature to ditch them.  They were still serviceable, and it could hardly be worrying about duplicating units right?  Because Greatswords, Executioners and Hammerers are pretty similar when you think about it.

I just think they made a mistake here. 😞

[Matt Sandi]

I think at the moment we are only seeing a fraction of the possibilities offered by the cities of sigmar book.  Whilst the discontinuation of the models is definitely sad, I do love the wealth of opportunities this book offers for dispossessed fans. The opportunity to convert hurricanum/ luminark of hysh by using old anvil of doom models for example to give us even more protection and to hit buffs really excites me in conjunction with rune lords. Furthermore, the possibility of using aethwings (lots of) , iron drakes and gortrek makes me extremely happy.   I'm also sure there will be specific battle traits for dispossessed general as well as artefacts of power that will further enhance us ....and just remember if you're feeling down...gortrek is back and better than ever...and we finally have a book!

[Skreech Verminking]

15 minutes ago, Matt Sandi said:

I think at the moment we are only seeing a fraction of the possibilities offered by the cities of sigmar book.  Whilst the discontinuation of the models is definitely sad, I do love the wealth of opportunities this book offers for dispossessed fans. The opportunity to convert hurricanum/ luminark of hysh by using old anvil of doom models for example to give us even more protection and to hit buffs really excites me in conjunction with rune lords. Furthermore, the possibility of using aethwings (lots of) , iron drakes and gortrek makes me extremely happy.   I'm also sure there will be specific battle traits for dispossessed general as well as artefacts of power that will further enhance us ....and just remember if you're feeling down...gortrek is back and better than ever...and we finally have a book!

If I understood Luka from miniwargaming, then there will even be a prayer for the runelord in the city of greywater for your artillery pieces.

So yeah, I’ll be happy getting the book for my self as well, after having heard a few previews.

[Arkhanist]

1 hour ago, Arkanaut Admiral said:

I’m trying to stay positive about the changes.  They just might work out.  But is anyone else a little saddened by the discontinuation of the Duardin artillery?

Here’s the thing; there are several aelf factions (Phoenix Guard, Wanderers, Shadowblades etc) and several human factions (freeguild, colligate arcane, devoted of Sigmar etc.) but only one duardin faction, the dispossessed.  Wouldn’t it have been nice if the Ironweld Arsenal was primarily another Duardin faction?  The Cogsmith as the character, then the two artillery weapons and fliers as its units, and then they could have the steam tank and human artillery weapons too... or not.  Either way, I just think that it was premature to ditch them.  They were still serviceable, and it could hardly be worrying about duplicating units right?  Because Greatswords, Executioners and Hammerers are pretty similar when you think about it.

I just think they made a mistake here. 😞

They're getting rid of everything in waves that's somewhat generic fantasy models, especially older kits. I won't be at all surprised to see a big chunk of the current freeguild, dark elf and high elf units go in the next purge. The only surviving dispossessed kits are from what, 2014? So anything much older than that in CoS that you can buy alternatives for from mantic, reaper etc I wouldn't expect to survive in the long term. So the big monsters, oddball warmachines and things like demigryph cavalry are probably fairly safe for now, but I wouldn't get too attached to stuff like greatswords or shadow warriors.

The ultimate future of dwarves for GW is Kharadron and Fyreslayers, copyrightable unique/weird stuff, just as dark elves future is Daughters of Khaine and Idoneth, humans are sigmarines, wood elves as slyvaneth and high elves well, whatever they end up doing for them, probably some Azyr magic users range.

They will probably do a 2nd 'normal' human (mostly) cities of sigmar army to replace freeguild, but expect it to be pretty weird.

Edited September 29, 2019 by Arkhanist

[ColsBols]

I love

7 hours ago, Azamar said:

Reposting from the Kharadrons thread- a list I’ve been thinking about this morning.

 

I like the idea of using tempest’s eye to make a true combined duardin list- something like (if I’ve got the new points right):

warden king (general)

Runelord

Runelord

battle line:

30 ironbreakers

30 hammerers

10  longbeards 

others:

10 grundstock thunderers

kharadron frigate

3 gyrocopters

allies:

grimwrath berserker

10 hearthguard berserkers 

 

How well that would synergise with the tempest eye’s rule’s I don’t know- I may well be better splitting the dispossessed into smaller units,  but I like the idea of having a combination of fast objective grabbers (gyrocopters and the Kharadrons), heavy hitters to grind up the field (berserkers and the hammerers) and a meaty block of ironbreakers in Defense (ok they’ve been inexplicably nerfed, but 30 models with a 3+ save/ 6+ invun, and battleshock immunity if I hang the king back, is still tough to shift. 

I LOVE this idea. I'm fluffing my free city as a majority duardin fortress called Khazad Dal-Valai, founded to be a safe haven in the wilds of Ghur.  The city keeps a strong airforce of gyrocopters and kharadron airships to cover ground quickly and keep the beast population in the surrounding areas in check. Unusually hospitable for dwarves, the worship a half-remembered conception of the old goddess Valaya and believe that someday she will return to be Sigmar's consort, who they also venerate. 

I'm gonna get some kharadron airships and run them with steam tank rules XD or i might just run them as airships with Tempest Eye rules, haven't decided yet.

[Televiper11]

I'm positive about all of  these changes. Only Ironbreakers got a nerf but I've always felt they were overrated on the table. 

Warden King's Oathstone is better. Make Hammerers (who are better now) his retinue and look out! Runelord is nuts, grabbing a second one. Irondrakes are gonna be awesome if they can double-tap off the Bridge spell. 

[Cerlin]

With all the changes, I am going to use my Thorgrim Grudgebearer as something. I think I will say he is a powerful rune mage and run him as a Celestial Hurricanum (on the right size base) so he fits in with my dwarves.  As for the movement, his bearers are just magically enhanced runners. 😀

If I can think of something else, I will try it.

 

[Enwolved]

Hey guys,

I am looking for an alternative model for a Battlemage for my dwarfs.

I found these two:

https://www.fantasywelt.de/Dwarf-Wizard-Kael-Stonekindle

https://www.sciborminiatures.com/en_,shop.php?art=3193

Does anybody know how big those miniatures are? do they fit? (of course the quality isnt as good as GW)

Any other cool ideas for a dwarf-battlemage?

[Orik Jarlson]

I'm toying with the idea using a Overlords frigate/ironclad as a base for  a Dwarven Luminark conversion .  I'll have a large cannon running down the length of the ship (like the Wave Motion Gun from space battleship Yamato) to represent the searing light  array. 

lore wise It'll basically be the brainchild of a disgraced mad scientist, and a engineer aspiering to fame and fortune crazy enough to think he can actualy make it work. They take their creation from battlefeild to battlefield truly test it....after being band from doing so within city limits after one too many accidents

And to any pointy ears who complain sufficiently advanced science is often confused for magic  

Edited October 1, 2019 by Orik Jarlson

[AlmGandix3]

2 minutes ago, Orik Jarlson said:

I'm toying with the idea using a Overlords frigate/ironclad as a base for  a Dwarven Luminark conversion .  I'll have a large cannon running down the length of the ship (like the Wave Motion Gun from space battleship Yamato) to represent the searing light  array. 

lore wise It'll basically be a prototype vessel designed by a crazy, somewhat mad engineer who's then decided that the battlefeilds the best place to truly test it.....  after all sufficiently advanced science is often confused for magic  

If you got Malaki you can put him on the deck since he is a slayer engineer and invent some cool stuff.

[Broken Netcode]

10 hours ago, Orik Jarlson said:

I'm toying with the idea using a Overlords frigate/ironclad as a base for  a Dwarven Luminark conversion .  I'll have a large cannon running down the length of the ship (like the Wave Motion Gun from space battleship Yamato) to represent the searing light  array. 

lore wise It'll basically be the brainchild of a disgraced mad scientist, and a engineer aspiering to fame and fortune crazy enough to think he can actualy make it work. They take their creation from battlefeild to battlefield truly test it....after being band from doing so within city limits after one too many accidents

And to any pointy ears who complain sufficiently advanced science is often confused for magic  

Im doing the same idea but as a Celestial Hurricanum! Im gonna use the Frigate but with the levitation orbs removed, the Hurricanum satellite as a sort of gyroscope on top of where the engine bay is, and then helicopter rotors im going to make out of plasticard so that it can match the 6 gyrocopters im going to be using in all my lists. 

The lore for mine is that the Kharadrons gifted one Frigate to the Greywater Fastness after the Dwarfs saved their bacon in some scenario. The Dwarfs then decided that levitation orbs are magic, and turned the Frigate into a mothership gyrocopter.

[ColsBols]

I love these ideas and I’m so happy to get a chance to incorporate some KO into my army without having to go all in 

[Orik Jarlson]

22 hours ago, AlmGandix3 said:

If you got Malaki you can put him on the deck since he is a slayer engineer and invent some cool stuff.

Thats honestly a great Idea! especial if I wanted to do the Luminark with Wizard option....now to find a Malaki  model that's not going to send me bankrupt 😂

12 hours ago, Broken Netcode said:

Im doing the same idea but as a Celestial Hurricanum! Im gonna use the Frigate but with the levitation orbs removed, the Hurricanum satellite as a sort of gyroscope on top of where the engine bay is, and then helicopter rotors im going to make out of plasticard so that it can match the 6 gyrocopters im going to be using in all my lists. 

The lore for mine is that the Kharadrons gifted one Frigate to the Greywater Fastness after the Dwarfs saved their bacon in some scenario. The Dwarfs then decided that levitation orbs are magic, and turned the Frigate into a mothership gyrocopter.

I knew I wasn't the only one with the crazy idea haha. I'd love to see the finished product once you'v made it 

I play KO so i'll probably keep the orbs on top to tie it in with my other airships, but I'm looking at maybe using some spare parts from the gyro-bomber and steam tank to make it seem more steam powered and tied into your Ironweld stuff as well.