Dammaz Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 (edited) Well, I'll try to make it quick and easy... What first got me into AOS was both aesthetic and gameplay. I choose Dispossessed because of the defensive, artillery and shooting play. Then came the dwarf lore, unique and rich in itself. With some times, I grew an army, knowing I won't get any battletome shortly, but I thought Dwarfs would get a battletome by itself, because they are too huge lorewise. With the hypothetical return of Grungni, Chamon and the new Karaks, we could even have the return of Valaya to justify the Dispossessed presence ! Gameplay-wise, Dispossessed are unique, with the strongly defensive tactics, the grudge and runic-lore, the Bravery-shenaningans. How do you fit humans, or aelfs in it without altering the essence of its tactics ans it's lore ? Don't get me wrong, with my Dispossessed I got some Ironweld and a few Freeguild with it. But in no way does it fill an important role in it. I didn't make any Free-City army, I made a Dispossessed army coming from a freaking Kazad, with no Humans nor Aelves. I choose it for its lore, for its gameplay, and its look. I'll be waiting as I said what's actually in the book, maybe there is still hope. Wait and See. But if it appears that the only way of playing them is by "Free-cities" or sticking with a GHB copy/paste, then pardon me by advance if I get bitter, and for the sour taste I get in my throat. I don't know what's better, getting souped, or getting squatted (the latter won't be the first time for dwarves) ? Edited July 20, 2019 by Dammaz 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dammaz said: Well, I'll try to make it quick and easy... What first got me into AOS was both aesthetic and gameplay. I choose Dispossessed because of the defensive, artillery and shooting play. Then came the dwarf lore, unique and rich in itself. With some times, I grew an army, knowing I won't get any battletome shortly, but I thought Dwarfs would get a battletome by itself, because they are too huge lorewise. With the hypothetical return of Grungni, Chamon and the new Karaks, we could even have the return of Valaya to justify the Dispossessed presence ! Gameplay-wise, Dispossessed are unique, with the strongly defensive tactics, the grudge and runic-lore, the Bravery-shenaningans. How do you fit humans, or aelfs in it without altering the essence of its tactics ans it's lore ? Don't get me wrong, with my Dispossessed I got some Ironweld and a few Freeguild with it. But in no way does it fill an important role in it. I didn't make any Free-City army, I made a Dispossessed army coming from a freaking Kazad, with no Humans nor Aelves. I choose it for its lore, for its gameplay, and its look. I'll be waiting as I said what's actually in the book, maybe there is still hope. Wait and See. But if it appears that the only way of playing them is by "Free-cities" or sticking with a GHB copy/paste, then pardon by advance if I get bitter, and for the sour taste I get in my throat. I don't know what's better, getting souped, or getting squatted (the latter won't be the first time for dwarves) ? Honestly my guess is this is their temporary bandage solution. This way they have everything somewhere in tome and they can go in deeper with individual tomes. Hopefully it will be as fast as the nighthaunt which were released about 5 months after they where included in Legions of Nagash I’d rather wait longer but get the full deal then be rushed. So I’m going for the dwarven virtue of patience. Hope that’s a something something on the horizon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironbreaker Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Kramer said: Honestly my guess is this is their temporary bandage solution. This way they have everything somewhere in tome and they can go in deeper with individual tomes. Hopefully it will be as fast as the nighthaunt which were released about 5 months after they where included in Legions of Nagash I’d rather wait longer but get the full deal then be rushed. So I’m going for the dwarven virtue of patience. Hope that’s a something something on the horizon That’s what I am holding out slim hope for since this book includes so much from other armies like KO and Stormcast. Stormcast inclusion was what really broke it for me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Ironbreaker said: That’s what I am holding out slim hope for since this book includes so much from other armies like KO and Stormcast. Stormcast inclusion was what really broke it for me. Stormcast inclusion is what is making me change my expectation from a free people’s tome to a firestorm city allegiances 2.0 book. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Alpaca Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Yeah this is awful the more I think about it. I’m hoping this is a sort of temporary thing as well. If this turns out to not be temporary though, I vote we collaborate and make a tome ourselves. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkanaut Admiral Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ragnar Alpaca said: Yeah this is awful the more I think about it. I’m hoping this is a sort of temporary thing as well. If this turns out to not be temporary though, I vote we collaborate and make a tome ourselves. I’m always dappling in rules design. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 I think what people need to remember is that the Karaks of old are no more... Gone from the old world. Instead the Dawii erected the Free Cities to establish the new world for all of the forces of order to dwell in. So in truth, it's most likely rare the Dispossessed go to war in their own right. Though, you can still do this with the GHB19 rules. The free Cities are fluffy and correct for the setting. I don't think this is a band aid, I think this is the final plan for the various order forces from the old world. Its not in GW interest to make new books for the older model ranges, they no doubt want to eventually retire them as the models just aren't as technically impressive as the new stuff. It looks great but isn't quite there. It's a tough pill to swallow for big fans of the races from the old world but you can still use your armies at least! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prochuvi Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 I think that as i,many others dwarfs players feel agraviated by this. Gw told us every army was getting battletome in those two years so the bretonian delete was out of the table. Options that we had?: 1--goblins deal,a FULL release of dispossesed with ironweld mixed and many new kits 2--a new alegiance with gotrek as key character and mixing karadrons dispossesed and fyreslayers(the nagash deal) 3--the beast of khaos deal and get only a battletome for dissposesed with terrain and endless spell Those were all the options,but then we get a battletome with no terrain neither endless spell and it is a battletome with 7 or more armys in it so we gonna get the same pages that everyone for 1\7 content of dispossesed. I wont buy a tome and scrolls to only use 1\7 of the content for sure. I dont give a ****** about humans,stormcast,elfs etc i wanna my 100% only dwarfs tome as EVERYONE have got 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green_Feevah Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 The warriors kit and the Quarrellers/thunderers kits are two of the oldest kits still in production (going all the way back to 6th edition Fantasy). I'd put money on them being on the chopping block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, prochuvi said: I dont give a ****** about humans,stormcast,elfs etc i wanna my 100% only dwarfs tome as EVERYONE have got Just like spiderfang got? Just like warherd got? Slaanesh mortals? The other factions in the book? Now Ironjawz and bonesplitters who once had their own book? Or every faction from death except for nighthaunt? and there are more. If you only care about the dwarfs you have two faction books. Edited July 20, 2019 by Kramer 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prochuvi Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Kramer said: Just like spiderfang got? Just like warherd got? Slaanesh mortals? The other factions in the book? Now Ironjawz and bonesplitters who once had their own book? Or every faction from death except for nighthaunt? and there are more. If you only care about the dwarfs you have two faction books. Hnnnn yes???? Spiderfangs ARE goblins in spider so they are in goblin tome. And other of your examples all are the same race. The same example that you put would be dispossesed together karadron or fyreslayers that i would be 100% happy,but dwarfs with elfs????its as if they release a tome of nagash\stormcast\dok\ironjaws all together. They have done 100% that with this tome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clan's Cynic Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 (edited) Look, I love to grumble with the best of them. As per the name I'm deathly cynical about most of GW's decisions, especially after Fantasy. However, I don't really see how this can be seen as a negative. How many of us spent the last few years waiting for Dispossessed to - excuse the expression - get squat'ed? It's going to be a BIG book and given several of the Firestorm cities were themed around Dwarfs, there's absolutely going to be rules for tailoring your army around that theme. This is just Legions of Order. There's absolutely room for them to spin-off books from this, in the same way Nighthaunt were from LoG and inevitably so will Soulblight and Deathrattle (who seem to be coming soon). However given they're some ways off, this is a better alternative than getting stuck with GHB rules forever after. Guess what we won't need to do now either? Get stuck with only 400pts for Cannon, Engineers and Gyrocopters. Edited July 20, 2019 by Clan's Cynic 6 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green_Feevah Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 (edited) I'd put real money on the Warriors and thunderer/quarreller kit being retired. It's one of the oldest kits still in production. And you can guarantee that a solo Dwarf force will be even more hampered by a new premium price, since technically we have access to all kinds of magic now (never mind the fact that most Dwarf players don't want to use any of it, they are still going to bake-in the cost). They already increased the price on Warriors because they were seen as too efficient in a Grand Alliance Army. Playing solo Dwarfs is going to be even more of an uphill battle than it is right now once that book drops. EDIT: Sorry for the double-post. The site didn't show my first post went through, then suddenly it was there. Edited July 20, 2019 by Green_Feevah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dammaz Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 That's why I said I'll wait and see. But I won't be cheering either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FPC Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Seems like a lot of jumping to conclusions here. Waiting for more details/the actual book would make sense. Maybe GW is going in a new direction and this will essentially be 7 battletomes in 1? Maybe not. But literally everything about this book is currently speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eciu Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 28 minutes ago, Charlo said: I think what people need to remember is that the Karaks of old are no more... Gone from the old world. Instead the Dawii erected the Free Cities to establish the new world for all of the forces of order to dwell in. Karaks were/are present in AoS. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Fair enough, what I mostly meant was that they aren't prominent in the lore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WatcherintheWater Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 I’m actually pretty excited for the release! If it’s anything like the Firestorm cities there will be plenty of options to have an all dwarf force, I’d if it can include KO or Ironweld as part of the core army, even better as far as I care. I’m sure some of the allegiances will be plenty thematic, and there’s no reason you can’t say that instead of A free city, you army is from a Karak only populated by dwarfs! The only real loss that I see is this probably means no dear specific endless prayers or terrain. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenshin620 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 You know the more I think about it, the more "Count As" options open up (assuming they make more abilities "Order" rather than "faction specific") For example, War Altar of Sigmar? Thats now Thorgrim Grudgebearer! Lumiark? Anvil of Doom (well the classic one one wheels)! Steam Tank? Something more Beardy! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Maybe I'm wrong, but do we know how this book will work? I don't know but if we can mix some type of "city habilities" (think about skyports) to build our own city (or just use the rules of an existing one), then we can just name it "Karaz-a-karak" and that could solve some of our problems (just use ironwels arsenal+dispossessed or whatever). Yeah, duardins will still need some type of model/rules update (cogmen or golemkin sounds good in my head), but that doesn't mean that we can't have some fun with our "karaks" from this battletome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verminlord Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 (edited) Extremely dissapointed, but holding back rage until we see the actual book... 😑 There are scenarios I could see this working out but GW hasn't exactly inspired confidence with their last few books. Edited July 20, 2019 by Verminlord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zadolix Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 I will live with this for now as long as they don't have discontinue warriors / quarrellers / thunderers. If they do then I'm out and selling up as that is literally half my army. And I'm not forking £100-150 to plug that gap with new units. If they don't then I can live with this but I'll have to compare it to GHB19 rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, prochuvi said: Hnnnn yes???? Spiderfangs ARE goblins in spider so they are in goblin tome. And other of your examples all are the same race. No. Spiderfang had their own lore, aesthetic and probably a lot of players believing they should be the same thing. If race is the defining factor dok and deepkin should also be together. Looking at everything except their race is an argument to keep them apart. And no not all my examples are the same race. The entire death line isn’t the same race. 4 hours ago, prochuvi said: The same example that you put would be dispossesed together karadron or fyreslayers that i would be 100% happy,but dwarfs with elfs????its as if they release a tome of nagash\stormcast\dok\ironjaws all together. They have done 100% that with this tome And happy that groupings on race work for you. But i’d rather have them group the people who work together in the narrative, regardless of the race. But fair enough that’s personal. Your exclamation that it’s 100% what they done with the tome is absolute horsesh*t. Come on man. If you gonna exaggerate st least make it believable. Grouping factions together that time and time again have been shown in the narrative to work and live as a single faction, that already feature in the same grand alliance, that have been given rules when working together in firestorm. Is NOT 100% the same as grouping the entire death grand allegiance*, stormcast, a random destruction faction and another randomly chosen order faction. And if your disappointed that’s fine, but it reads like your twisting the reality to increase the wrongness done to you. Hope this helps explain why I responded to your first post better *because Nagash is all, and all is Nagash as we all know Edited July 20, 2019 by Kramer 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkanaut Admiral Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 I’m actually a bit worried about the future of the range now. I’ll try to reserve judgement until the book is actually released though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verminlord Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 8 minutes ago, Kramer said: No. Spiderfang had their own lore, aesthetic and probably a lot of players believing they should be the same thing. If race is the defining factor dok and deepkin should also be together. Looking at everything except their race is an argument to keep them apart. And no not all my examples are the same race. The entire death line isn’t the same race. And happy that groupings on race work for you. But i’d rather have them group the people who work together in the narrative, regardless of the race. But fair enough that’s personal. Your exclamation that it’s 100% what they done with the tome is absolute horsesh*t. Come on man. If you gonna exaggerate st least make it believable. Grouping factions together that time and time again have been shown in the narrative to work and live as a single faction, that already feature in the same grand alliance, that have been given rules when working together in firestorm. Is NOT 100% the same as grouping the entire death grand allegiance*, stormcast, a random destruction faction and another randomly chosen order faction. And if your disappointed that’s fine, but it reads like your twisting the reality to increase the wrongness done to you. Hope this helps explain why I responded to your first post better *because Nagash is all, and all is Nagash as we all know I'm sorry but you can't pretend like this wasn't a compromise to have a book to point to for all these factions that they didn't feel like working on. If we wanted multirace armies we already had GA order and firestorm rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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