AoS 2 - Dispossessed Discussion

[dirkdragonslayer]

On 4/1/2019 at 5:59 AM, Furuzzolo said:

In Overlords of the Iron Dragon the main Frigate (Iron Dragon) and the 2 frigates fight aerial battle against a whole lot of things and Duardins shoot from all 3 the decks

In Soul Wars an entire clan of Duardin live in Glymmsforge (not even one of the great city) and help in the I-don't-want-to-spoiler-"fight" so I assume that clans living in cities or near generic cities are a thing. That do imply that fighting alongside humans and stormcast is way more common than allying with Kharadon and Fyreslayers. I mean, if we do live in tandem with humans having lost our strongholds in the Age of Chaos the background lore do not support our allegiance rules.

By the way I don't really care, to me till the book is out the lore is like a primer, it's ok if it is a bit confuses right now.

It kind of makes sense that they would ally with humans over other Duardin. When the Age of Chaos happened, the Dispossessed are the ones who stayed true to tradition and stayed in their Karaks. Kharadron Overlords abandoned their traditions and gods to escape to the sky. They progressed remarkably fast when Longbeards normally shun new inventions. It’s like KO are the opposite of traditional WHFB Dwarfs. Dispossessed probably begrudge them for their cowardice in fleeing their ancestral homes and abandoning their gods.

As for Fyreslayers, they probably get along a bit better than KO. They are traditional, venerate Grimnir, and didn’t flee when Chaos arrived. However they are mercenaries who have allied themselves with bitter enemies like Chaos before, so I imagine there is some tension there.

[Zadolix]

46 minutes ago, Quahog said:

Additions such as cavalry take us away from who we are. Yes, we need some mobility for all the objective based scenarios. The two things which are in keeping with our  lore are tunnelers/miners/tunneling machines and the golems so prominent in the Warhammer literature. Do those up properly and we can compete while remaining true to the aethos.

I'm not sure I wholly agree that it would take away from who we are, warhammer dwarfs are incredibly intelligent and inventive and actually don't mind mobility if you look at things like the Gyrocopter. I think it would be good to have some sort land based invention that would bring speed, maybe some sort of drill machine? 

[Quahog]

33 minutes ago, Zadolix said:

I'm not sure I wholly agree that it would take away from who we are, warhammer dwarfs are incredibly intelligent and inventive and actually don't mind mobility if you look at things like the Gyrocopter. I think it would be good to have some sort land based invention that would bring speed, maybe some sort of drill machine? 

Oh I fully agree, even mentioned the mining machine. There was much talk of a big tunneling machine, supposedly the model had already been made, before the world ended. What I don't want is stuff like polar bear cavalry, hog riders etc, to give us 'mobile' troops.  

[Arkanaut Admiral]

OK, keep dispossessed as foot infantry.  Maybe Fyreslayers could get cavalry in future; they’ve already got the monsters after all.

And since they have the gyrocopters, I think they could get away with big land lumbering steam machines.  Just as long as they don’t get too close to the Overlords. 

Big question; the current warrior and marksmen kits.  Who wants them retained, and who thinks they need replaced?

[Furuzzolo]

As I understand the thing it does work loke this:

1- We need to expand Dispossessed

2- Artist work on whatsoever concept they like and bring them to the rule team.

3- The rule team makes rules for the piece.

 

Am I wrong? In my note I have, right now, the Giant stone golem, some cavalry, a drill but i guess there's no point in proposing new units, that's not how they come to be.

[Zadolix]

15 minutes ago, Furuzzolo said:

As I understand the thing it does work loke this:

1- We need to expand Dispossessed

2- Artist work on whatsoever concept they like and bring them to the rule team.

3- The rule team makes rules for the piece.

 

Am I wrong? In my note I have, right now, the Giant stone golem, some cavalry, a drill but i guess there's no point in proposing new units, that's not how they come to be.

No you are correct, GW tend to sculpt the miniatures first and give their sculptors complete freedom so that they can sculpt whatever they feel inspired to sculpt, then after it is finished the rules team chat with sculptor about what things mean or represent on the model and then create rules accordingly - taking other units that are already in the army into consideration.

 

45 minutes ago, Quahog said:

What I don't want is stuff like polar bear cavalry, hog riders etc, to give us 'mobile' troops.  

I agree that would just be like a carbon copy of Lord of the Rings, I think dwarven steam chariots driven by pistons and not animals could be a cool idea though!

 

36 minutes ago, Arkanaut Admiral said:

Big question; the current warrior and marksmen kits.  Who wants them retained, and who thinks they need replaced?

I think they should be replaced, they are not totally bad kits but the horned helms feel a little out of place. The units are good but they just need a fresh aesthetic.

 

[Televiper11]

I think Dispossessed should have the ability to tunnel once per game in the Hero phase, moving a unit x number of inches across the table as a way to add movement.

The idea that they could disable scenery is cool too.

[Arkanaut Admiral]

@Zadolix

I’m inclined to agree.  They’ve moved beyond the Viking look now, and they don’t quite match up with the later kits.  Not to mention the awkward numbers in the kit.

A new warrior kit, that more closely resembles the longbeard models, would be sweet.  Basically, no more horned helmets, they now wear a mixture of scale mail and solid plate rather than chain mail, have bigger and more detailed shields, and come in a batch of 20 with both weapon options.  Literally like ‘scaled back’ versions of the longbeard models, with shorter beards too.

I’m actually thinking of drawing an example of this idea with a longbeard as a comparison!

[Scurfturf]

1 hour ago, Arkanaut Admiral said:

A new warrior kit, that more closely resembles the longbeard models, would be sweet.  Basically, no more horned helmets, they now wear a mixture of scale mail and solid plate rather than chain mail, have bigger and more detailed shields, and come in a batch of 20 with both weapon options.  

Lets be real. They'll come in a batch of 10 and be $50.00 per box.

[Zadolix]

1 hour ago, Scurfturf said:

Lets be real. They'll come in a batch of 10 and be $50.00 per box.

At least AoS has done boxes of 20 for most other factions cheap line troops, we could only hope the same for ours! 

[Mungrun]

4 hours ago, dirkdragonslayer said:

It kind of makes sense that they would ally with humans over other Duardin. When the Age of Chaos happened, the Dispossessed are the ones who stayed true to tradition and stayed in their Karaks. Kharadron Overlords abandoned their traditions and gods to escape to the sky. They progressed remarkably fast when Longbeards normally shun new inventions. It’s like KO are the opposite of traditional WHFB Dwarfs. Dispossessed probably begrudge them for their cowardice in fleeing their ancestral homes and abandoning their gods.

As for Fyreslayers, they probably get along a bit better than KO. They are traditional, venerate Grimnir, and didn’t flee when Chaos arrived. However they are mercenaries who have allied themselves with bitter enemies like Chaos before, so I imagine there is some tension there.

3

Maybe I'm wrong but didn't the Dispossessed also fled from Chaos? I mean the Dispossessed are those Duardin who went to Azyr with Sigmar and closed the realmgate right?

The duardins who stayed loyal to its traditions and stayed in their Karaks were all of them slaughtered by the Chaos forces.

Edited April 4, 2019 by Mungrun

[Furuzzolo]

39 minutes ago, Mungrun said:

Maybe I'm wrong but didn't the Dispossessed also fled from Chaos? I mean the Dispossessed are those Duardin who went to Azyr with Sigmar and closed the realmgate right?

The duardins who stayed loyal to its traditions and stayed in their Karaks were all of them slaughtered by the Chaos forces.

We don't really talk about that. 

🤧

We fled for survival. Now it's time to conquer what was lost!

[Arkanaut Admiral]

Yeah I thought the dispossessed were those dwarfs who had fled with Sigmar to Azyr whilst the overlords where those dwarves who had fled into the skies on airships.  Not sure where fyreslayers came from.

 

And if they are making a new dwarf warrior kit, it should probably have enough parts for 20 models.  But I wouldn’t hold my breath. 😒

 

Also, just had a thought...definitely have stone golems (animated statues powered by ancestor spirits) as heavy troops equivalent to trolls or what have you, but also have a dual throne chair warden king  and portable anvil of doom kit that’s carried by a couple of these golems...or even four.  Old Warhammer used regular dwarves, but we’re in aos now and we need to go bigger!

[Aezeal]

6 hours ago, Zadolix said:

I'm not sure I wholly agree that it would take away from who we are, warhammer dwarfs are incredibly intelligent and inventive and actually don't mind mobility if you look at things like the Gyrocopter. I think it would be good to have some sort land based invention that would bring speed, maybe some sort of drill machine? 

Mechanical pigs.

[Mungrun]

In my opinion, the chaos duardins are the true descendants of the last duardins who fought against chaos.

In the map of Chamon there is a placed called "The Betrayal of the Last King".

I think that the high king of the duardins was corrupted by the chaos forces and turned back against his people when they were fighting against the chaos daemons (somehow like the battle of Istvaan V in 40k) the loyal dwarfs died and the other ones were corrupted like his king. 

[AlmGandix3]

4 hours ago, Mungrun said:

Maybe I'm wrong but didn't the Dispossessed also fled from Chaos? I mean the Dispossessed are those Duardin who went to Azyr with Sigmar and closed the realmgate right?

The duardins who stayed loyal to its traditions and stayed in their Karaks were all of them slaughtered by the Chaos forces.

As far as I know (from the spear of shadows book) some duardin survived in their karaks and others joined other races in azyr( now the free city dwarfs). Sigmar only got six demigod duardin working for him currently. Sadly the biggest karak founded by Grungni himself was sadly overrun by skaven. I hope that one day irondrakes will burn the pests away.

[Furuzzolo]

2 days without TGA. I wrote a Dispossessed battletome. Really.

Monday I'm going to put it into a google doc and share it with you, I need feedback before sending it to GW! 🤣

[Ironbreaker]

10 hours ago, Furuzzolo said:

2 days without TGA. I wrote a Dispossessed battletome. Really.

Monday I'm going to put it into a google doc and share it with you, I need feedback before sending it to GW! 🤣

Wow, I'll see about testing it out for you if my buddy will allow me.

[Toddy]

I suspect the Warrior/Quarreller/Thunderer kit will be retired. They don't really (conceptually) add anything to the range not covered by our 4 'elite' infantry blocks, which all have lovely modern kits. 

Dwarves riding bears always looks ridiculous (e.g. LotR and Mantic).  New cavalry units of *any* type seem in short supply since AoS started (only the IronJaws Gore-Gruntas?) I can't see GW going down that route.

Golums seem all but inevitable (😃) perhaps with Duardin riding on top, ala the Araknarok? A tunneling machine would be awesome. I'd love a new Miner kit too, but pickaxes might seem abit twee in the New World...

Edited April 7, 2019 by Toddy

[Ironbreaker]

11 minutes ago, Toddy said:

I suspect the Warrior/Quarreller/Thunderer kit will be retired. They don't really (conceptually) add anything to the range not covered by our 4 'elite' infantry blocks, which all have lovely modern kits. 

Dwarves riding bears always looks ridiculous (e.g. LotR and Mantic).  New cavalry units of *any* type seem in short supply since AoS started (only the IronJaws Gore-Gruntas?) I can't see GW going down that route.

Golums seem all but inevitable (😃) perhaps with Duardin riding on top, ala the Araknarok? A tunneling machine would be awesome. I'd love a new Miner kit too, but pickaxes might seem abit twee in the New World...

I'd rather not see Warriors go. I'd hate for all the Warriors I've bought to be null. I actually like the look of them also.

[Kramer]

42 minutes ago, Toddy said:

I suspect the Warrior/Quarreller/Thunderer kit will be retired. They don't really (conceptually) add anything to the range not covered by our 4 'elite' infantry blocks, which all have lovely modern kits. 

Dwarves riding bears always looks ridiculous (e.g. LotR and Mantic).  New cavalry units of *any* type seem in short supply since AoS started (only the IronJaws Gore-Gruntas?) I can't see GW going down that route.

Golums seem all but inevitable (😃) perhaps with Duardin riding on top, ala the Araknarok? A tunneling machine would be awesome. I'd love a new Miner kit too, but pickaxes might seem abit twee in the New World...

1. Yeah, I think Dispossessed going for the army wide look set by the long beards etc is very cool. However it seems GW might be pulling a 40K one, where every faction left will get a tome soon. Which makes new models seem less likely to me. 

2. They released a lot of cavalry models since AoS launched. Three cavalry units for stormcast with different mounts, elves on different seacreatures, tzaangors on disks (think they are an AoS release) and probably more that I can’t think off right now. Do agree on the silly dwarf bear look. Although if anyone can execute something like that it’s GW. 

3. Hope that dispossessed get a strong miner theme. And a miner set as battleline would make sense. Are golems really inevitably? No mention in the lore as far as I know, just a lot of speculation delivered with a false  air of authority. Again my perception of things. 

 

[Toddy]

6 minutes ago, Kramer said:

1. Yeah, I think Dispossessed going for the army wide look set by the long beards etc is very cool. However it seems GW might be pulling a 40K one, where every faction left will get a tome soon. Which makes new models seem less likely to me. 

Oh I don't mean they'll get a new kit. They'll just be retired. I mean, how many 'infantry with hand weapon and shield / two handed weapons' options does one model line need? Crossbows and generic rifles don't seem fantastical enough for the new world. Especially when Irondrakes exist.

I'm hopeful for at least one new 'big centre piece' model for us though. That seems to be a staple of AoS factions, and we haven't got one. 

[Dammaz]

 

11 hours ago, Furuzzolo said:

2 days without TGA. I wrote a Dispossessed battletome. Really.

Monday I'm going to put it into a google doc and share it with you, I need feedback before sending it to GW! 🤣

Count me in ! I'll test it right away !

[raaaahman]

5 hours ago, Toddy said:

I'm hopeful for at least one new 'big centre piece' model for us though. That seems to be a staple of AoS factions, and we haven't got one. 

Good ol' anvil of doom could do on that department. Give us back Thorgrim and Alrik too, the models still looks fantastic.

Telluric themed "endless prayers" could be awesome too.

 

Anyway I've been experiencing the game a little more, against the new Skaven battletome moreover. Damn, those rats are filthy buff-stackers!

First game I've been board wiped by a charge of the Plague Priest on his big clock-chariot thing, after having cleared the whole 20 plague monks (but one) unit that was suppose to propel it on a double shooting turn, that damn thing managed to charge my Warriors ( a 10 roll ), and since my Thunderers were not far enough, I had to pile in with them to mainly scratch the chariot's paint. Then my opponent had a double turn and his other twenty plague monks managed to charge my poor thunderers.

He also got a friggin' 6 on his prayer roll, which let him throw a mortal wound per model (on 5+) on my closest unit, twice in the game! I somehow felt the weapons were not really balanced between us, especially when I learnt the point cost of these units...

We then played a two against one match were I teamed up with a Sylvaneth player, but we couldn't finish. We were in quite bad position as we got diminished by the Skaven's long range shot / spells and couldn't teleport on objectives in on our opponent's board side.

I need to play against another opponent, 'cause at the moment I'm feeling I won't be able to take part in fair games if they're all loaded with these kind of rules.

 

I read you writing about Miners, do you play them along with the Dispossessed allegiance rules, or do you play full Dwarfs compendium's rules when you do so?

[Zadolix]

17 hours ago, raaaahman said:

Anyway I've been experiencing the game a little more, against the new Skaven battletome moreover. Damn, those rats are filthy buff-stackers!

First game I've been board wiped by a charge of the Plague Priest on his big clock-chariot thing, after having cleared the whole 20 plague monks (but one) unit that was suppose to propel it on a double shooting turn, that damn thing managed to charge my Warriors ( a 10 roll ), and since my Thunderers were not far enough, I had to pile in with them to mainly scratch the chariot's paint. Then my opponent had a double turn and his other twenty plague monks managed to charge my poor thunderers.

To be honest in terms of defence Warriors and Thunderers are only okay, I started to temper my expectations of them after my first few games as while a 5+ save rerollable is admirable, it doesn't always get the job done especially if rend is involved. I tend to view Warriors more as damage dealers and screens now since they get the reroll 1 to wound in the opponents combat phase. I quickly found Ironbreakers to be far superior in a defensive role. I tried 2 games against my Slaanesh friend once, in the first game I used Warriors and Thunderers and heroes and got completely smashed. In the  second game I switched to Ironbreakers and less Thunderers and his army just crashed against them barely doing anything. They just ignored all of the -1 rend that was slaughtering the warriors while still re-rolling their saves on an improved 4+ and then hitting back with 2 attacks each. Don't give up dispossessed though, I'm playing around with lists and games a lot and I'm finding Ironbreakers to be core to me winning games at the moment.

17 hours ago, raaaahman said:

I read you writing about Miners, do you play them along with the Dispossessed allegiance rules, or do you play full Dwarfs compendium's rules when you do so?

I use them as allies, my friends are gracious enough to let me use them as allies but with no dispossessed allegiance rules which seem fair. Technically the general's handbook doesn't list them as allies but we are quite a casual group so my friend's don't mind. Unless you're going to an official GW tournament I think most people / groups won't mind you using them as allies.

I like to use a lot of legacy stuff like miners, bolt thrower, grudge thrower etc. so I run Order allegiance sometimes if I need to. Running Order allegiance is very liberating as you can dispossessed / compendium / ironweld stuff freely with no need to worry about keeping it within 400pts allies or quantity of allies. Yes you lose stubborn to the end but if give your general the inspiring command trait from the order list of traits units with 6" don't roll battleshock AT ALL, and the whole armies trait as order is to reroll battleshock tests which can be nice combined with our clan banners and longbeards watching over them. You also lose reroll 1s to hit for the grudges but hey I can take 2 cannons, a cogsmith, a bolt thrower, a grudge thrower and 20 miners (960pts in allies) so who cares? Also with order you can give your warden the +1 damage relic blade which makes him a really decent fighter makings each swing D3+1 damage.