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AoS 2 - Dispossessed Discussion


Chris Tomlin

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The wishlisting thread has got me thinking, and hoping for that matter, that Dispossessed get a battletome soon, or at least combined within a free cities battletome. I was thinking what things could they add to be more competitive? Giving us some way to tunnel a unit each hero phase without using a pickaxe would be a start, then perhaps a way to bring some extra units back to the board? With this I mean most of the armies nowadays they’re adding lots of ways for models to be summoned/brought back to the table, what way could Dispossessed do something like this? Also thinking of possible endless spells that the dwarfs could have, Runelords could cast the “spell” and it could be like a living rune or a embodiment of the ancestor gods in a physical form to buff or damage enemy models.

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@Ragnar Alpaca

Love this question.

I thought of a grudge system to provide Dispossessed with reinforcements rather than summoning.

The idea would be a list of goals your army starts with at the start of the game. Such as, "slay an enemy hero" or "slay an enemy unit that has slain duardin". Then bring the list of goalsup to 10 maybe, while trying to keep the dwarf/grudge theme.

From there you earn point based on how many or how difficult the grudge is. These points would translate to a units table like the other factions currently have. The units you choose are deployed at any table edge within 6inches to reflect them being reinforcement rather than summoned.

I think this would be a unique way of updating Dispossessed. They need something special like this to avoid them getting the "compensation" treatment, in which they dont really get anything new, they just get a bunch of rules to compensate against all the new rules that other armies recieve.

For an endless spell. I imagined a rune with a large debuff area. It would strip the buff your opponent has applied to his units. Much like abilities that force enemy units to move, this spell would give Dispo a much needed way of manipulating your opponents choices. So many of our strategies are reaction or anticipation based. 

Edited by Oath Stoned
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7 hours ago, Ragnar Alpaca said:

 Giving us some way to tunnel a unit each hero phase

Bring them back!

 

640?cb=20161030053026

 

 

 

While one can make an excuse for summoning....you can do that for literally any army under the guise of Reinforcement. Some destruction forces can do that (like if you roll lucky with Stoneklaws Gutsompas). So if Dispossessed could have reinforcements, then anyone else could too. Like Free People or Scourge Privateers or Wanderers and on and on.

Though the idea of fulfilling grudges does sound interesting. Maybe something like Space Wolf Sagas.

I also think there should be a Vengeance system where when you lose Heroes (or maybe even entire units), you can gain a Grudge against the enemy that slayed it, like +1 to Hit or Wound.

And more useful Unforged! I know Fyreslayers already exist, but thats not an excuse!  (that is the excuse isn't it!)

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These are all fun ideas.  In the meantime the best we can do is pickaxe quarrelers or drakes and ally a runesmtiter to also tunnel a magmadroth a behemoth, or 10 hearth guard for more pop up shooting, or 20 vulkites that have a decent  chance of charging with their reroll on single die.

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I'd like a named warden king with unique command ability, a generic priest with prayers and an unforged rework with an aggressive command ability.

I'd like a rune-like-DoK-prayers table to chose from and, more of all, battalions. Without giving us movement and mobility boost we can have battalions with ambush mechanics or whatsoever.

I'd love gyrocopters-bombers and cannons back in the allegiance, or a new cavalry units (duardins on rams ?) to open a mobility option in listbuilding.

Last but not the list i don't really like a reinforcement mechanic BUT i'd like a more deep grudges list...some of them are not relevant.

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2 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

Bring them back!

 

640?cb=20161030053026

 

 

 

While one can make an excuse for summoning....you can do that for literally any army under the guise of Reinforcement. Some destruction forces can do that (like if you roll lucky with Stoneklaws Gutsompas). So if Dispossessed could have reinforcements, then anyone else could too. Like Free People or Scourge Privateers or Wanderers and on and on.

Though the idea of fulfilling grudges does sound interesting. Maybe something like Space Wolf Sagas.

I also think there should be a Vengeance system where when you lose Heroes (or maybe even entire units), you can gain a Grudge against the enemy that slayed it, like +1 to Hit or Wound.

And more useful Unforged! I know Fyreslayers already exist, but thats not an excuse!  (that is the excuse isn't it!)

We really could need the kit back. But wouldn't it be more interesting, having something like a Stomhost (some mine cities) where all Warriors, Longbeards, Thunderers, Quarrellers, Wardenking etc . would have an this sort of opitc and Abilities?

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13 hours ago, EMMachine said:

We really could need the kit back. But wouldn't it be more interesting, having something like a Stomhost (some mine cities) where all Warriors, Longbeards, Thunderers, Quarrellers, Wardenking etc . would have an this sort of opitc and Abilities?

Well yea that too, I just like having pick axes for weapons!

Though how would tunneling be balanced I wonder. Sure they could have Stormcast style deepstrike for half the army but then I fear dispossessed might end up being "take minimum battleline, then spam the ever living heck out of irondrakes". I mean a very popular tactic for SCE is x2-4 ballistas+ordinator deep striking.

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I am looking for a color scheme I found about two weeks ago on Google. Then I lost it couldn't find it evert since ... -.-

It's basically Longbeards with turquiose armour (it looked awesome)

It looked much like this:
Picture

 

does anybody have the pictures I mean? (I need to know the colors used)

Edited by JackStreicher
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18 minutes ago, Oath Stoned said:

@JackStreicher

Theres an airbrush tutorial on youtube with a turquiose armor for longbeards. Might be that one that you seen.

I wanna know how to maintain the grooves of ironbreakers armor the way the artist did in the pic you linked.

i have a bunch of Second Hand ironbreakers. They have a foundation and one coat of silver on and you can still  see the grooves clearly :)

 

do you have a Link to the Tutorial?

Edited by JackStreicher
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On 10/20/2018 at 7:43 PM, JackStreicher said:

I am looking for a color scheme I found about two weeks ago on Google. Then I lost it couldn't find it evert since ... -.-

It's basically Longbeards with turquiose armour (it looked awesome)

It looked much like this:
Picture

 

does anybody have the pictures I mean? (I need to know the colors used)

Was it this tutorial (hammerer rather than longbeard)?

https://workbenchwarriorsblog.wordpress.com/2015/01/13/painting-a-dwarf-hammerer/

img_7947.jpg?w=290&h=290

Edited by Arkhanist
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On 10/18/2018 at 11:49 PM, Oath Stoned said:

@Ragnar Alpaca

Love this question.

I thought of a grudge system to provide Dispossessed with reinforcements rather than summoning.

The idea would be a list of goals your army starts with at the start of the game. Such as, "slay an enemy hero" or "slay an enemy unit that has slain duardin". Then bring the list of goalsup to 10 maybe, while trying to keep the dwarf/grudge theme.

From there you earn point based on how many or how difficult the grudge is. These points would translate to a units table like the other factions currently have. The units you choose are deployed at any table edge within 6inches to reflect them being reinforcement rather than summoned.

I think this would be a unique way of updating Dispossessed. They need something special like this to avoid them getting the "compensation" treatment, in which they dont really get anything new, they just get a bunch of rules to compensate against all the new rules that other armies recieve.

For an endless spell. I imagined a rune with a large debuff area. It would strip the buff your opponent has applied to his units. Much like abilities that force enemy units to move, this spell would give Dispo a much needed way of manipulating your opponents choices. So many of our strategies are reaction or anticipation based. 

I still have this visioen in my head which consists of two parts. One the grudge system. Love the idea,  could be expanded. First enemy unit to do damage becomes a grudge worthy enemy etc, so the re-rolls as a choice (specifying choosing after set up, for tournament reasons) and something interactive.

secondly: mining. I would throw out all warriors & thunderers/quarrellers. Go with the super heavy armoured force. (Look at the rend ignoring gromgril armour) Then add back a form of miners, mining machines for some cool new models. 

But most importantly let the dispossessed influence the battlefield. Their lack of speed would be compensated but still be a thematic disadvantage. So my idea would be, a sapping system where all dwarf players place X amount of markers. In their hero phase they blow the charges and place a 12” long terrain piece that represents a cave in. Blocking movement. (Maybe D3 mortal wounds on enemies on top of it)

So you have your theme: slow and deliberate. Able to offset their disadvantages with tactical play.

(for me all deepstriking force would just remove the disadvantages, a boring solution imo) 

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1 hour ago, Kramer said:

I still have this visioen in my head which consists of two parts. One the grudge system. Love the idea,  could be expanded. First enemy unit to do damage becomes a grudge worthy enemy etc, so the re-rolls as a choice (specifying choosing after set up, for tournament reasons) and something interactive.

secondly: mining. I would throw out all warriors & thunderers/quarrellers. Go with the super heavy armoured force. (Look at the rend ignoring gromgril armour) Then add back a form of miners, mining machines for some cool new models. 

But most importantly let the dispossessed influence the battlefield. Their lack of speed would be compensated but still be a thematic disadvantage. So my idea would be, a sapping system where all dwarf players place X amount of markers. In their hero phase they blow the charges and place a 12” long terrain piece that represents a cave in. Blocking movement. (Maybe D3 mortal wounds on enemies on top of it)

So you have your theme: slow and deliberate. Able to offset their disadvantages with tactical play.

(for me all deepstriking force would just remove the disadvantages, a boring solution imo) 

This is a wonderful and 100% thematic idea, hope GW sees this !

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Dispossessed are said to be the workforce of Order cities, the stone masons that constructed the mighty walls of Azerheim itself (sp).

So what should they get? Why STONE WALLS of course! Similar to how Beasts were brought together with some Endless Spells and Scenery, why not have Dispossessed & Ironweld brought togoether with some fortifications? Bonuses to save, overwatch shooting and any number of things could be useful to it. Could even have something like a Barracks where reinforcements (summoning) can be brought on from.

Also Grudges need an update, they're too specific at the moment - I like the reactionary idea above, maybe you get one pre-game grudge and one during?

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10 hours ago, Kramer said:

I still have this visioen in my head which consists of two parts. One the grudge system. Love the idea,  could be expanded. First enemy unit to do damage becomes a grudge worthy enemy etc, so the re-rolls as a choice (specifying choosing after set up, for tournament reasons) and something interactive.

secondly: mining. I would throw out all warriors & thunderers/quarrellers. Go with the super heavy armoured force. (Look at the rend ignoring gromgril armour) Then add back a form of miners, mining machines for some cool new models. 

But most importantly let the dispossessed influence the battlefield. Their lack of speed would be compensated but still be a thematic disadvantage. So my idea would be, a sapping system where all dwarf players place X amount of markers. In their hero phase they blow the charges and place a 12” long terrain piece that represents a cave in. Blocking movement. (Maybe D3 mortal wounds on enemies on top of it)

So you have your theme: slow and deliberate. Able to offset their disadvantages with tactical play.

(for me all deepstriking force would just remove the disadvantages, a boring solution imo) 

I really like the idea of sappers restricting movement. I agree that deepstriking everything seems un-dwarf-like. They could make a hero (call him a foreman or something) that either deepstrikes a unit (like the pickaxe) or can set up charges. They don't even have to be secret charges, just something to make the opponent think twice about moving through an area of the board.

2 hours ago, Charlo said:

Dispossessed are said to be the workforce of Order cities, the stone masons that constructed the mighty walls of Azerheim itself (sp).

So what should they get? Why STONE WALLS of course! Similar to how Beasts were brought together with some Endless Spells and Scenery, why not have Dispossessed & Ironweld brought togoether with some fortifications? Bonuses to save, overwatch shooting and any number of things could be useful to it. Could even have something like a Barracks where reinforcements (summoning) can be brought on from.

Also Grudges need an update, they're too specific at the moment - I like the reactionary idea above, maybe you get one pre-game grudge and one during?

I like the theme of dispossessed being the builders, but I'm not sure how setting up fortifications after deployment would fit thematically. I mean, even if the dwarves worked all night there wouldn't be enough time to build stone fortifications.

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18 minutes ago, Bolgan said:

I like the theme of dispossessed being the builders, but I'm not sure how setting up fortifications after deployment would fit thematically. I mean, even if the dwarves worked all night there wouldn't be enough time to build stone fortifications.

Legion of Nagash setup gravesites before battle and Nurgle sets up one gnarlmaw tree before.  Not that stone fortifications would make sense but fences or trenches, and booby traps would.

There is also rumor of Cogforts - fortifications on wheels.  

In any case, anything that creates new models to sell and reboxing of current models would be win win for us and GW!

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12 hours ago, Oath Stoned said:

@kramer

I like that idea a lot. Your saying save up hypothetical grudge pts to release a map changing piece of terrain?

I was also imagining a cogfort. Except its a moving piece of terrain with any number of guns and bonuses. 

Oh yeah, grudge points as a system would be cool as well. The more losses you get the more powerful your remaining warriors could be. But that could lead to sacrificing units which doesn't really feel Dwarf like. But there is so much potential there.

I meant it as a separate thing. Like Sylvaneth influence the terrain and their own movement. Dwarf cave ins could influence the terrain and their opponents movement with it. 

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23 minutes ago, Kramer said:

that could lead to sacrificing units which doesn't really feel Dwarf like

Could be tied to battleround, not to dead units! Like DoK or Idoneth.

Make sense to me, the more we hold our enemy, more losses we suffer, harder we fight!

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57 minutes ago, Furuzzolo said:

Make sense to me, the more we hold our enemy, more losses we suffer, harder we fight!

Exactly ! Shield wall your enemy, get battered and slowly but surely push him away. That's the duardin way !

Maybe a bonus in Bravery the longer the fight is,  or malus for to wound rolls for your opponent.  Why not both ? According to some tactics choices, you could get some bonuses for your troops or maluses on to hit/wound rolls for them, or maybe a tricky one : rerolls of successfully wound rolls.

You thought you were hitting hard ? Wrong !

But maybe am I going too far on this one...

 

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I’m liking a lot of these ideas, I do expect if we get a battle tome that it will come with some sort of terrain piece, seems to be the new normal. I don’t know what they would do about endless spells though.  Maybe get Grudge points from getting a unit killed/getting charged and maybe killing an enemy unit, then you could spend them to either debuff an enemy unit or buff a friendly unit. I don’t think the dispossessed need anymore ability to help battle shock btw, in we get more it would just start getting lame. We already don’t flee on 1, 2, or 3 and then halve number of models that do flee. 

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1 hour ago, Ironbreaker said:

Gyrobomber or Gunmaster? Most games I play sees my Gyrobomber hardly contributing to the game. My allies in a 1000 point list is an Organ Gun and a Gyrobomber, but I am thinking of going all the way with the Organ Gun and taking a Gunmaster. What do you think?

If you 'll invest at warmachines take at least 2 and a gunmaster with them.

Suggestion : always go for a Gyrocopter. Better mobility, does have some threat for some inches and could be proven a real deal vs hordes situationally. Bombers are n1 at rule of cool but the movement and type of ability make them underwhelming for "comp" lists :P

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