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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

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Well, there was this rumor about a DoK vs Slaanesh box set later this year. Its not that unlikely. The Daughters of Khaine book will be 2,5 years old this fall, thats enough time for GW to analyze the initial release and give the "go ahead" to the design team if they were popular enough. 

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

There is like almost 0% chance of DoK being folded into Malerion's Aelves.

I'm not saying its 100% happening, but the warclans and mawtribes book say that the chance of a combined book is not 0%. Shadowkin maybe? Or maybe take the scathborn name from the daughters book?

18 minutes ago, Overread said:

I'm sure the shadow aelves will be their own army entirely. DoK just need a second wave. Some new infantry; a new leader not in the cauldron kit (I'd love a khinerai leader model); perhaps some medium shadow beasts (morathi was partial to summoning/calling them to her) and then a dragon - cause freaking heck AoS needs more!

We definitely need more models. A khinerai leader would be quite cool. And I think youd be hard pressed to hear someone say no to a new dragon. A mist form dragon or heavy infantry/medium monster kit would be cool. But I think this is the exact direction malerions stuff will be. I think that's a lot of overlap. We still have yet to see where the mistweaver saih and tenebrael shard from silver towers fit in anywhere.

Edited by Graywater
I made a dumb

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46 minutes ago, Graywater said:

I'm not saying its 100% happening, but the warclans and mawtribes book say that the chance of a combined book is not 0%. Shadowkin maybe? Or maybe take the scathborn name from the daughters book?

We definitely need more models. A khinerai leader would be quite cool. And I think youd be hard pressed to hear someone say no to a new dragon. A mist form dragon or heavy infantry/medium monster kit would be cool. But I think this is the exact direction malerions stuff will be. I think that's a lot of overlap. We still have yet to see where the mistweaver saih and tenebrael shard from silver towers fit in anywhere.

While I love dragons, I think that is more likely to fit the Malerion aesthetic. If the Daughters were to remain independent, I would expect something in the vein of greek mytholgy to match the Medusa and Harpy theme we have going on. Alas, the other sources of inspiration that would be clearly Greek seem to be occupied by other factions or ill-suited for us: Cyclops, Minotaur, Satyr, Sirens... Sirens would make sense but are a little close to Idoneth design space. The others are already their own models.

An interesting point of tension in the Daughters battletome is that there are Witch Aelves that question Morathi’s authority. This might not go anywhere if the Scatheborn are incapable of independent will, but I would love to see this explored further with rival factions amongst the Daughters. Perhaps a questing sisterhood uncovers a powerful relic of Khaine that brings revelation, perhaps Kharybtar the father of Kharybdii manifests himself as a champion amongst the Witch Aelves to sow discord and seek vengeance. Such splits would allow the designers to introduce new themes to the army and explore new model concepts.

The realist in me argues that mawtribes and warclans set a precedent for small factions to get rolled up. It will be interesting to see whether Tyrion and Teclis are combined in one army. If so, it seems like further precedence for Malerion and Morathi to be joined  (in terms of model range, not necessarily lore.)

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3 hours ago, DantePQ said:

There is like almost 0% chance of DoK being folded into Malerion's Aelves.

What's the reasoning behind that? I have no skin in the game either way,  just genuinely wondering.  Reasons for combining them, just off the top of my head you could argue that

- Malerion and Morathi's forces have been in the same army before. At that time they also both kind of did their own thing, spied on each other etc. So you could still have her as the top of the Khanites, just within the army

- the Daughters don't seem to be a super popular army even though they have been a strong army mechanically

- because of their background they'll always have kind of a limited model range as a stand alone army 

- GW wants to keep a lid on how many separate, independent aelf armies they put out there (one reason why I think Teclis and Tyrion will be in the same army)

- they could do something like with the Seraphon, so that people who enjoy they current play-style can keep playing them like this, while also offering one where you can select them as part of a  wider army under Malerion. 

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4 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

What's the reasoning behind that? I have no skin in the game either way,  just genuinely wondering.  Reasons for combining them, just off the top of my head you could argue that

- Malerion and Morathi's forces have been in the same army before. At that time they also both kind of did their own thing, spied on each other etc. So you could still have her as the top of the Khanites, just within the army

- the Daughters don't seem to be a super popular army even though they have been a strong army mechanically

- because of their background they'll always have kind of a limited model range as a stand alone army 

- GW wants to keep a lid on how many separate, independent aelf armies they put out there (one reason why I think Teclis and Tyrion will be in the same army)

- they could do something like with the Seraphon, so that people who enjoy they current play-style can keep playing them like this, while also offering one where you can select them as part of a  wider army under Malerion. 

The teclis and Tyrion points you raise are both good. Those guys are both their own entities, but very close in broad concept i.e. "light elves", just as morathi and malerion are both thematically "shadow elves". So if teclis and tyrion are not both rolled into lumineth, maybe malerion and morathi will be kept separate. There would at least be a precedent for it, in contrast to other recent battletomes that have consolidated the racially and thematically similar factions. Otherwise, I'm still of the suspicion that we'll be given the warclans treatment, in which you can either play as daughters, malerion's faction, or the combined shadow elf faction as a whole.

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Morathi and Malerion are very different compared to Tyrion and Teclis. It dates back to early edition of WFB. They were in one faction but Morathi never accepted Malerion's superiority. It was shown greatly in End Times and books leading to it. 

Also Daughters of Khaine are an faction on their own now and lorewise (considering WFB backstory, End Times and Age of Sigmar lore) there is no reason to fold them into Malerion's force.  It would make no sense, it would make more sense to fold Deepkin into Lumineth (they are also small faction) then DoK into Malerion force as regular Witch Elves worhsip Khaine (through Morathi) and Scatheborn worship Morathi. Malerion is neither. 

Orruk Warclans is horrible example - as GW made one big book to keep players having older models like Bonesplitterz having fun as there is little chance they wlill get expansion but Orruk Warcalns can. The same could be said about Cities of Sigmar. 

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Ok, not going to try to argue, as mentioned I’d be fine either or. I agree, they could easily incorporate for example one clan of Idoneth as the river subculture into the Lumineth. 

But the Warhammer example is exactly why I think Both those factions could e thrown together. She never accepted his supremacy, but he always was supreme and they were in the same faction. During the end times T&T weren’t pals either, but they are very likely in the same faction.

Anywy! I got your points : ) 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

Ok, not going to try to argue, as mentioned I’d be fine either or. I agree, they could easily incorporate for example one clan of Idoneth as the river subculture into the Lumineth. 

But the Warhammer example is exactly why I think Both those factions could e thrown together. She never accepted his supremacy, but he always was supreme and they were in the same faction. During the end times T&T weren’t pals either, but they are very likely in the same faction.

Anywy! I got your points : ) 

WFB factions weren't that dynamic. Folding DoK into Malerion Aelves makes as much sense as folding Fyreslayers into Kharadron. Yeah but Witches and Scathborn operates much different that WFB Witch Elves and back in WFB - Dark Elves were worshippers of Khaine and Malerion isn't Khaine and he won't be playing proxy like Morathi. 

Tyrion and Teclis were twin brothers and for majority of End Times they were together , in AoS as well. 

Edited by DantePQ

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The risk for GW is that DoK were one of the first armies in AoS. I think that with 2.0 GW has set out in stone which factions are where. Even when they've done the new Death factions they've not removed Legions of Nagash, instead they pulled out a couple of models each time as they built Death armies around themes displayed within the legion. The legion isn't even any weaker as a result of it, it still functions. 

I think with 2.0 GW has been establishing the game and the armies for at least the medium future of the game. I think after all the bumpy ride that they gave their customers from the launch of AoS until 2.0 they need to have some stability for a long period of time to build up faith, community and customers. The last thing they want to do is start dropping 2.0 armies or merging them up . 

 

Now Malarion's army might get a battalion with Daughters of Khaine, letting them take more than the 1/4 allowance for allies and suchlike. I can see that happening. But rolling her army into his I don't think would happen. At least not now. The closest we might see rolling would be something from Cities of Sigmar rolling into them; however I get the impression that his army will be totally new. 

 

Don't forget AoS might have a lot of armies, but at the same time 40K has a lot of armies if you start counting all the Marine factions up. 

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The Heart of Winter novella was basically a throwback to the original dark elves, with witch elves teaming up with scourge privateers on a black ark or whatever the old floating fortresses are. Personally I wouldn't mind the old dark elves being recombined. Not necessarily likely but I could see DoK being combined with something else eventually. I actually think that it would make them a more interesting faction.

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18 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

What's the reasoning behind that? I have no skin in the game either way,  just genuinely wondering.  Reasons for combining them, just off the top of my head you could argue that

- Malerion and Morathi's forces have been in the same army before. At that time they also both kind of did their own thing, spied on each other etc. So you could still have her as the top of the Khanites, just within the army

- the Daughters don't seem to be a super popular army even though they have been a strong army mechanically

- because of their background they'll always have kind of a limited model range as a stand alone army 

- GW wants to keep a lid on how many separate, independent aelf armies they put out there (one reason why I think Teclis and Tyrion will be in the same army)

- they could do something like with the Seraphon, so that people who enjoy they current play-style can keep playing them like this, while also offering one where you can select them as part of a  wider army under Malerion. 

I don't believe it either from a lore perspective. But to your arguments:

- Morathi and Malerion have been at odds more than at the same side in AoS. And there needs to be a big way forward in the lore to get them to work together. And even then it's easier to let them ally into eathothers army than to combine them. 
- They are still played a lot. Anecdotally nobody around me sold them, but they do play them less. I think, just with tzeentch, some new rules will see them out of the shoeboxes in no time. Tournament wise, according to The Honest Wargamer stats, 17 factions are played more, 11 less often. So that's very decent for such an old book. 

- yeah that I agree with, but I don't expect that to be a reason to shelf them as a separate faction. 

- I think the opposite is true. I think they still want smaller ranges per faction. Otherwise Kharadron would have been expanded I expect. 

- Sounds more like a Orruk Warclans. 

But all this is meant as friendly discussion. My main reasoning to think they will be seperate is that it makes for a more interesting lore. Morathi/DoK has a super interesting storyline. Where their religious leader is lying to them, all the while they are trying to escape a captive god that is close to escaping himself. 

I expect the storyline of Malekith to be at least as interesting. 

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@Kramer Sorry, that god long, just wanted to explain the background why I'm haunting the DoK channel. 

Just to be clear, I don't think they have to merge them or anything like that. I only asked DantePQ because he wrote there is nearly a 0% chance, so I wondered why he is so sure. I don't play Dark Elves normally (as you can imagine), but have been buying their army books since they exist (I also have the current DoK BT), and generally like Morathi as a character. 

In the end I don't think that lore would be a valid reason either way. It all comes down to if GW thinks they can sell more miniatures by keeping them separated or by merging them. When I wrote my reply yesterday I had just watched the latest Warhammer Weekly from Vince (03182020) where he had an interesting discussion about models and their popularity according to a survey he did among his viewers. Around 900 people took part in that survey, and in terms of DoK it showed that 

  • they had one of the highest "meh" ratings (meaning most people don't have a strong reaction to the models (neither hate nor especially like them)). 
  • they had a relatively low meta rate, the lowest among armies with a high win rate (everyone else with a win rate around 60% had double their numbers at least), and the lowest among the 15 factions covered. 
  • they also have a low rate of lists at AOS Reminders. He looked at those stats to try to get a broader view on how many people make lists for armies, which is probably a broader range than only the tournament crowd. And again DoK was the faction with the least entries.  Whereas some factions like the Nighthaunt, which had a relatively high "like the models" rating, but a low win rate and low meta rate, have a much higher Reminders rating. 

So, if you go by those stats, not that many people really like the models, DoK aren't picked that often in tournaments and not a lot of people make lists for them. Which all put together doesn't look like they are really popular, and could be an incentive for GW to put them together with another faction. Of course the stats are imperfect. 900 is quite good for a survey, but it's just among his viewers, people don't always reply truthfully in surveys and things like a low numbers of lists could just mean there aren't many interesting ways to build an army (which in itself is a problem though), etc. Lots of other reasons. Still it's comparatively good data. So there might be an incentive for them to put them together. Or they could decide they have to widen the range of DoK models

I just thought there are some additional reasons besides lore to be so sure, that's all. Because they can always change the lore to make it fit with whatever they want to do. And in terms of Morathi this could be easily done. Malerion is always mentioned as the ruler of Ulgu, and they also put her on a level below him terms of status (god vs demigod, although that doesn't mean anything in the game). She is also in a pretty precarious situation because her whole power is based on a lie. One which the other gods know of. So it would be quite easy to write a story where she has to submit to him to survive (and start planing to overthrow him again). 

Btw. the Warhammer Weekly survey and analysis is really interesting.  

Again, I'm not saying GW must or should merge them. I just think you can't flat out say it's not possible. Let's see, if DoK really get a new BT within this year, then the discussion will be solved soon.  

Anyway I'm looking forward to getting murdered by stabby aelves when I finally get my hands on the Lumineth. 

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DoK are good and powerful, problem is:

A:  Battleline is old models from 8th Ed Fantasy (3 new kits, 2 of which duel)
B:  Battleline is expensive (one of the most expensive per point)
C : Battleline is Hard to paint as its mostly skin
D : Range isnt that big

I can see Malerion's army be allies with DoK but not merge them, Morathi is too sassy to share plus shes up to secret shinannigans 

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Posted (edited)
On 3/23/2020 at 2:48 AM, LuminethMage said:

- Malerion and Morathi's forces have been in the same army before. At that time they also both kind of did their own thing, spied on each other etc. So you could still have her as the top of the Khanites, just within the army

- the Daughters don't seem to be a super popular army even though they have been a strong army mechanically

- because of their background they'll always have kind of a limited model range as a stand alone army 

- GW wants to keep a lid on how many separate, independent aelf armies they put out there (one reason why I think Teclis and Tyrion will be in the same army)

- they could do something like with the Seraphon, so that people who enjoy they current play-style can keep playing them like this, while also offering one where you can select them as part of a  wider army under Malerion. 

Ok, first off I actually don't care if DOK gets folded into an Ulgu aelf thing. But it's unlikely to happen. And I apologize if my response sounds snarky I don't mean it to be, but your basing this on flawed analysis - let's take your points:

1. This is not a reason. This is Old World nostalgia. 

2. So that thing when all those meta chasers suddenly bought DOK when the book was hot didn't happen? That said at this point in time I take your point - but this is a good reason to update the faction not fold it into something else.  

3. Really? There couldn't be spear/Hoplite Witches, Assassin Witches, Aelf Sorceresses (not Medusae), minor priestesses under Hag Queens, Heavier armoured Witches (not Melusai or Khinerai), warmachines, tamed shadow demons. a new type of Slaughter Queen. Named Heroes, different actually relevant cavalry, a chariot, Monster Mounted characters/cavalry.

4. You base your argument for Malerion and Morathi together on an assumption that Tyrion and Teclis are both in the Lumineth army. And I would love Lumineth to have Tyrion in it. But honestly there is zero evidence for this now. And even less for a Morathi & Malerion book. Also what evidence do you have for GW wanting a lid on independent Aelf armies? There's Sylvaneth, DOK, IDK, Lumineth, and the COS already. Heck there are 3 Duradin armies currently (COS, Fyreslayers & KO) and there'll likely be another one in Order eventually and that's not including the Chaos Dwarves that don't exist anymore. By this logic you also exclude the future possibility of there ever being Chaos Duardin or Chaos Aelves - and we have models in warcry that demonstrate such beings exist.

Again I don't care if DOK merge with Malerion's Shadow Aelves (most likely I'll be collecting that army too anyway). But I see zero reason for it here. Let's look at your next points:

On 3/24/2020 at 2:45 AM, LuminethMage said:
  • they had one of the highest "meh" ratings (meaning most people don't have a strong reaction to the models (neither hate nor especially like them)). 
  • they had a relatively low meta rate, the lowest among armies with a high win rate (everyone else with a win rate around 60% had double their numbers at least), and the lowest among the 15 factions covered. 
  • they also have a low rate of lists at AOS Reminders. He looked at those stats to try to get a broader view on how many people make lists for armies, which is probably a broader range than only the tournament crowd. And again DoK was the faction with the least entries.  Whereas some factions like the Nighthaunt, which had a relatively high "like the models" rating, but a low win rate and low meta rate, have a much higher Reminders rating. 

This is much more interesting. But your referencing to Vince's survey is selective. That Homer Simpson quote comes to mind: "People can come up with statistic to prove anything, Kent. 40% of people know that." Seriously for anyone who hasn't watched the show, you should listen to Vince, Tom and Tyler's analysis: https://youtu.be/53004peUBmU?t=4960

1. This is surprising. But "meh" was 5 out of 10. They also had a fairly low 1 out of ten rating and an ok 10 out of 10.

2. This is true. And IMHO a feature of the fact GW refused to fix the Hagg Narr problem. (The problem being that Hagg Narr is the only way to play DOK in a Tourney). And I suspect the reason for that is that the fix involves a completely new temple system (i.e new book).

3. As above there are only so many ways to write a powerful, affordable, paintable Hagg Narr list. 

To me these points just say the battletome has run its course and needs updating. Given that DOK is in line within the next 24 months (COVID-19 allowing) to be updated, it seems like GW was expecting the battletomes to have a 3 year lifespan. And the data bears that out.

Edited by zedatkinszed

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Just a few things. I extra mentioned that all lore reasons are meaningless. GW can change the lore to whatever they think will sell them more products. This of course also applies to my own arguments about lore reasons. Just because they were together WH Fantasy, doesn't mean they have to be in AoS eventually.

People should have a look at the video and make up their own minds. I totally agree. It's really interesting. 

But I didn't reference it selectively. "Meh" in the video is exactly defined as what I wrote it is (and I was surprised that they didn't score better). I also mentioned that the low Reminders stat could be because there are not that many options to build a good list with the DoK, and that even if the stats mean that the DoK are not popular (which is just an assumption) - GW could decide to give the army a wider model range to solve this. 

The only thing I disagree with you is that there is no evidence that Tyrion is part of the Lumineth. He is constantly mentioned in the Lumineth lowdowns. They've called him the Lord of Lumination. Certain models (Dawnriders, Eltharion) bear a stronger connection to Tyrion (are more Tyrionic) than to Teclis. If you read everything they've published about the Lumineth it would be strange if he wasn't part of them. He doesn't have to come with the initial release of course. 

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Posted (edited)

I wouldn't mind a combination to get 'shadow elves' would give me a reason to buy some of the nice saurus cavalry. Cool models.

 

At the same time I also could do with separate BT, but DoK need, really need some new units for this to work. 

Cavalry, artillery, ranged units and monsters are missing from the BT. 

Things I think of :

Assault Cavalry on a type of shadowy Wyvern (flying) - light armor hard hitting. 

Heavy armored Cavalry  - more tank, Shadowsteeds/Lindwurms. Big enough beast to maybe carry two riders Tobe unique. (visually akin to Harlequins Jetbikes in 40k)

Artillery Ballista - shooting several small shadow bombs, not only damaging but also causing confusion. 

Wyches with repeating crossbows - can also be designed as a more elite type unit. 

Monsters - a bulky clawed beast engulfed in shadow. Hard to hit and kill. 

Edited by Xil

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There is like no chance they will be folded still don't know why it's up for discussion. 

Right now they are not popular beacause they are not that strong and army is very expensive to start with as you need at least 4 boxes of Witche Elves and those are the among most expensive GW kits. 

Also that can change quickly for example if GW expands DoK with new hero and new unit (that could be batteline or for example make Stalkers better and Batteline) it gives you more variety. 

A lot of people would love to play Scathborn army but problem is that Stalkers are trash and both Khinerai units serve the same role. But imagine how minor tweaks could change the army :

- batteline BloodStalkers that are decent for example 100 points for what they are now (with ability being natural 6) 

- Lifetakers 280 for 20 but they will have 2'' reach. 

not to mention other tweaks 

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1 hour ago, DantePQ said:

There is like no chance they will be folded still don't know why it's up for discussion. 

Right now they are not popular beacause they are not that strong and army is very expensive to start with as you need at least 4 boxes of Witche Elves and those are the among most expensive GW kits. 

Also that can change quickly for example if GW expands DoK with new hero and new unit (that could be batteline or for example make Stalkers better and Batteline) it gives you more variety. 

A lot of people would love to play Scathborn army but problem is that Stalkers are trash and both Khinerai units serve the same role. But imagine how minor tweaks could change the army :

- batteline BloodStalkers that are decent for example 100 points for what they are now (with ability being natural 6) 

- Lifetakers 280 for 20 but they will have 2'' reach. 

not to mention other tweaks 

We're talking about it because it's the first interesting conversation we've had in this part of the forum in a while. Before this conversation, nobody had posted in this topic in over a week. Also, I still dont believe it's as much of a done deal as you say, but that's fine, we don't have to convince each other.

Daughters are not a weak army. They are for sure expensive, but their rules are still solid. It is unfortunately pretty monobuild, but win rates from all of last year show we still compete with some of the top performers. 

I think that our army being pigeonholed into one particular build for tournament play, combined with the expense piece that you mentioned, are the major contributing factors to daughters not being highly represented. 

Variety has been mentioned a lot in these posts, and for good reason. There have been multiple answers to our variety issue and while I dont agree with all of your assessments, your suggestions to fix our variety issue are all fine.

I'd love to see daughters get the ability to have temples unlock battleline options. Khailebron could easily unlock blood sisters as battleline without needing a medusa general, while hagg nar would make sense to make lifetakers as battleline. Honestly morathi should make at least one of those two groups be battleline if she is general. It feels strange having my little medusa be general in an army containing the high priestess of the entire faction.

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11 hours ago, zedatkinszed said:

 

4. You base your argument for Malerion and Morathi together on an assumption that Tyrion and Teclis are both in the Lumineth army. And I would love Lumineth to have Tyrion in it. But honestly there is zero evidence for this now. And even less for a Morathi & Malerion book. Also what evidence do you have for GW wanting a lid on independent Aelf armies? There's Sylvaneth, DOK, IDK, Lumineth, and the COS already. Heck there are 3 Duradin armies currently (COS, Fyreslayers & KO) and there'll likely be another one in Order eventually and that's not including the Chaos Dwarves that don't exist anymore. By this logic you also exclude the future possibility of there ever being Chaos Duardin or Chaos Aelves - and we have models in warcry that demonstrate such beings exist.

 

I find this part interesting. The problem isnt in the number of factions for a given race. You've listed several elven factions that are all clearly going to belong to the game for a long time as their own entities. But the reasoning for that is because they are conceptually unique. Even if they had 20 factions of elves, they could all exist so long as they occupy a unique design concept. The potential problem is that we have very little info on whatever malerion's faction will look like, but we are talking shadow elves in broad terms. So malerion would have to bring something a bit more outlandish than your traditional shadow elves in order to stay in that unique design space. It's absolutely possible and not something I'm putting past GW's design team. Otherwise, why have 2 books for pretty much the same conceptual factions? 

As for morathi and malerion not liking each other, well there is a power imbalance between them. That imbalance could absolute compel morathi to comply with malerion's demands. Factions don't have to all have the exact same mindset- the ogors within mawtribes don't exactly like each other, for example. A little intrigue and infighting of ideals is interesting, and a race like shadow elves is the perfect opportunity to try this out. Heck, i cant think of a race better suited to it . Actually sounds like an interesting dynamic- the underling scheming about usurping her leader, in this case the literal god of shadows, a position she has been scheming to put herself in since awakening in the realms, but still forced to work alongside his forces for common goals and/or because she is forced into his service.

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37 minutes ago, Graywater said:

I find this part interesting. The problem isnt in the number of factions for a given race. You've listed several elven factions that are all clearly going to belong to the game for a long time as their own entities. But the reasoning for that is because they are conceptually unique. Even if they had 20 factions of elves, they could all exist so long as they occupy a unique design concept. The potential problem is that we have very little info on whatever malerion's faction will look like, but we are talking shadow elves in broad terms. So malerion would have to bring something a bit more outlandish than your traditional shadow elves in order to stay in that unique design space. It's absolutely possible and not something I'm putting past GW's design team. Otherwise, why have 2 books for pretty much the same conceptual factions? 

you're right concept is king. And what are DOK? Aelf Amazon blood cult with Greek myth inspired monsters (Melusai and Khinerai). To be honest their concept is one of the clearest and most unique as it stands. IDK are souless Atlantean Aelves, Sylvaneth are Dryads (in the mythical sense) and COS are the remnant of surviving Aelves from Azyr. I'm not a fan of the pointy Aelves as the elemental (geomantic magic) stuff makes them seem to me like High Elves with a less iconic design. 

Malerion's shadow Aelves have two prototypes in the Tenebral Shard and Mistweaver Saih. Sure, we have no clue if they'll be like this but look at what do they have in common with the info on Malerion. They're mysterious and well, misty. 

The DOK have a very clearly Greco-Roman aesthetic so if Malerion comes out in that style then sure they could fit (awkwardly). But I doubt it. There's far more scope in the mist and dragon aesthetic for the lore around him.

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My bet is Malerion Aelves will be very dragonic alike. With Imrik and Alith Anar making a comeback. 

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Posted (edited)

I’m looking to dive back into my Daughters of Khaine after a bit of a tabletop hiatus.

I've always disliked how they were the “top tier” army out there because a lot of people locally would always hem and haw about playing against them, regardless of what I used.
 

Has this been mitigated at all lately by the Fyreslayers/Slannesh/Bone boys, or are DOK still leading the pack? IE do most people still consider them overpowered?
 

Edited by Lord Veshnakar

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3 hours ago, Lord Veshnakar said:

I’m looking to dive back into my Daughters of Khaine after a bit of a tabletop hiatus.

I've always disliked how they were the “top tier” army out there because a lot of people locally would always hem and haw about playing against them, regardless of what I used.
 

Has this been mitigated at all lately by the Fyreslayers/Slannesh/Bone boys, or are DOK still leading the pack? IE do most people still consider them overpowered?
 

Not overpowered, but still competitive 

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I've noticed that Morathi's model has a few monster components. Bat wings. Snake body. Medusa Hair. The former are represented in the Khinerai, Melusai, and Bloodwrack Medusa. However she has one final component that isn't represented anywhere. A scorpion stinger at the end of her tail. What are your thoughts on half-scorpion girls? Maybe as some sorta monster.d5bpy1h-cac12d67-b8e9-4c62-b69f-2a642f58

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