Jump to content

AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion


Chris Tomlin

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, Chumphammer said:

It isnt often someone can take on the snakes so easily, especially if i dont have to split my buffs. I am only losing out on 20 SOS and for that I am getting some good shooting output to support. I found that medusas can be so good at helping to clear out large mobs. It helps a lot vs things like 60 man mobs of gitzz with - to hit

What do you do against fyreslayers? They've been by far the toughest thing for me to deal with. Those berserker blobs can deal with anything we have.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Graywater said:

What do you do against fyreslayers? They've been by far the toughest thing for me to deal with. Those berserker blobs can deal with anything we have.

I played them for the first time at LVO twice and got max points from them (I think max) twice

Just pick off their characters and you are golden. 

Id use the SOS/WE to slow their advance. Shadow warriors, Khinari and chariots to poke at the characters. Even arcane bolt from the 2nd Medusa. Fully buffed snakes in combat (using scenery to filter so only 1 or 2 units hit you max.  

Medusa x 2 in with the snakes using their stare 

I would hang  the slaughter queen back to just both/command point use. Shes not worth losing to a protracted fight

Worse case I sacrifice Chariots and Khinari's to keep slowing them down as they are cheap throw away units.

Hell, even throwing a second medusa is a fine road block if needed lol. My whole army is sacrificial, bar the SQ and Sneks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Chumphammer said:

Just pick off their characters and you are golden. 

I guess this is where I get stuck, and a big part as to why I want to switch out my 2x5 heartrenders for something with some damage. We dont have any significant poke with our shooting, especially against the -1 to hit from look out and -1 to wound from their relic. That is the one list I've truly struggled against.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey guys! I was wondering if you could help me out with a list-- I'm hoping to do a Daughters(and sons) of Loec army by mixing daughters units with blood bowl wood elves. Is there a beginner list you would start with? My friends and I play matched play but don't go all-out so it's okay if it isn't too crazy! I appreciate any help you guys can give.

Thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/24/2020 at 1:42 PM, FlatTooth said:

Hey guys! I was wondering if you could help me out with a list-- I'm hoping to do a Daughters(and sons) of Loec army by mixing daughters units with blood bowl wood elves. Is there a beginner list you would start with? My friends and I play matched play but don't go all-out so it's okay if it isn't too crazy! I appreciate any help you guys can give.

Thanks!

What size list are you looking to run? 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1500 vangaurd tourney this weekend. Thinking about a last minute tweak, would love soem expert opinions before i go buy an avilgaurd SC for the scourge chariot i need lol. 
Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar
Slaughter Queen on Cauldron of Blood (330)
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
Hag Queen (90)
Hag Queen (90)
30 x Witch Aelves (300)
- Sacrificial Knives and Blade Bucklers
30 x Witch Aelves (300)
- Sacrificial Knives and Blade Bucklers
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (90)
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
- Allies

Total: 1490 / 1500
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 150 / 200
Wounds: 112

So i dropped the SoS/Shrine/ extra CP and took a Medusa on foot, 3x scourge runner chariots/ 5 heartrenders. It just felt like the shrine was really only good for those extra wounds, but it makes keeping everything close to the cauldron harder. SoS seem usefull, but in the majority of my practice games they were left babysitting something or as a sacrificial screen. Seems like chariots/ heart renders are cheap screens if needed and the extra shooting is very welcome for some hero sniping potential. Solid changes or am i missing something crucial?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Ser_namron said:

1500 vangaurd tourney this weekend. Thinking about a last minute tweak, would love soem expert opinions before i go buy an avilgaurd SC for the scourge chariot i need lol. 
Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar
Slaughter Queen on Cauldron of Blood (330)
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
Hag Queen (90)
Hag Queen (90)
30 x Witch Aelves (300)
- Sacrificial Knives and Blade Bucklers
30 x Witch Aelves (300)
- Sacrificial Knives and Blade Bucklers
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (90)
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
- Allies

Total: 1490 / 1500
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 150 / 200
Wounds: 112

So i dropped the SoS/Shrine/ extra CP and took a Medusa on foot, 3x scourge runner chariots/ 5 heartrenders. It just felt like the shrine was really only good for those extra wounds, but it makes keeping everything close to the cauldron harder. SoS seem usefull, but in the majority of my practice games they were left babysitting something or as a sacrificial screen. Seems like chariots/ heart renders are cheap screens if needed and the extra shooting is very welcome for some hero sniping potential. Solid changes or am i missing something crucial?

Im a fan of SoS simply cus they get past the activation war stuff. Like HB and slaanesh being the two oppressive lists in combat

Link to comment
Share on other sites

SO was looking over my idea list for mixed arms for wetcoast in April, and I have an epiphany lol

Tripple

Tower.....

Hag Narr
Slaughter Queen on Cauldron: General, Devoted Disciples, Blessing of khaine
Hag Queen: Crimson Rejuvination
Bloodwrack Medusa: Shadow Stone, Mindrazor
Bloodwrack Medusa: Pit of Shades
10 Sisters of Slaughter: Bladed Bucklers
10 Sisters of Slaughter: Bladed Bucklers
10 Witch Aelves: Bladed Bucklers
20 Blood Sisters
10 Shadow Warriors
3 Scourgerunner Chariots
Prismatic Palisades

So, 3 dispels, 2 casts. 
10 Drops
SQ for Command ability and general support.
2 Hags...double stare...double bloodwrack shrine ability. This creates a death zone where its 2D3 Mortal wounds to every enemy in 7" and then their shooting attack.
battle line is to just cap obj and be a screen
Shadow warriors and chariots to give fire support and try and pick off support characters 

Why Crimson over catachism? We have enough damage output. What I need is a way to keep the SQ in the game (or throw some snakes back)

Why Palisades? It can be great to block the movement of a big non fly thing (like an Abom/doomwheel as they have to go around it) but also can be used in front of a big slow shooting unit to reduce how many can shoot/maybe get the -1 to hit.

But yeah. Mainly excited about the damage potential vs OBR with double shrine lol  
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, jhamslam said:

Im a fan of SoS simply cus they get past the activation war stuff. Like HB and slaanesh being the two oppressive lists in combat

But i only have 10 of them, so its not like their gonna get much value in combat, their more of a objective capping unit or a screen/ harasser. I do see their utility, i just dont think it outweighs 3 scourgerunner. With 3 scourgerunners i can at least threaten some serious mortal wounds with 6 shots doing d3 mortals on 6s and screen just as well. I would love to run 30 blocks of SoS instead of WE , but my models are the old metal ones from 98' and they have no whips or shields. I did buy 20 whips to try and convert them, but that requires alot of modding lol. Might be worth doing it for the future though. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Chumphammer said:

SO was looking over my idea list for mixed arms for wetcoast in April, and I have an epiphany lol

Tripple

Tower.....

Hag Narr
Slaughter Queen on Cauldron: General, Devoted Disciples, Blessing of khaine
Hag Queen: Crimson Rejuvination
Bloodwrack Medusa: Shadow Stone, Mindrazor
Bloodwrack Medusa: Pit of Shades
10 Sisters of Slaughter: Bladed Bucklers
10 Sisters of Slaughter: Bladed Bucklers
10 Witch Aelves: Bladed Bucklers
20 Blood Sisters
10 Shadow Warriors
3 Scourgerunner Chariots
Prismatic Palisades

So, 3 dispels, 2 casts. 
10 Drops
SQ for Command ability and general support.
2 Hags...double stare...double bloodwrack shrine ability. This creates a death zone where its 2D3 Mortal wounds to every enemy in 7" and then their shooting attack.
battle line is to just cap obj and be a screen
Shadow warriors and chariots to give fire support and try and pick off support characters 

Why Crimson over catachism? We have enough damage output. What I need is a way to keep the SQ in the game (or throw some snakes back)

Why Palisades? It can be great to block the movement of a big non fly thing (like an Abom/doomwheel as they have to go around it) but also can be used in front of a big slow shooting unit to reduce how many can shoot/maybe get the -1 to hit.

But yeah. Mainly excited about the damage potential vs OBR with double shrine lol  
 

I find palisade too easily dispelled. its great against Khorne, or fyreslayers. Death has access to Arkhan and a lot of dispels. So does tzeentch. KO flies.

idk how much use id get out of that

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, jhamslam said:

I find palisade too easily dispelled. its great against Khorne, or fyreslayers. Death has access to Arkhan and a lot of dispels. So does tzeentch. KO flies.

idk how much use id get out of that

Sure it's easy to dispel, but it takes a cast away from your opponent to do so and we often arent looking to cast much besides mind razor. With 2 casters, you'll want something else to do, and for 30 points, you arent going to fit in anything that will be of any value. And fyreslayers being another big threat but not being able to do anything about it is a huge advantage as well.

With how many bonereapers there are out there, the amount of rend and mortal wounds youre packing @Chumphammer seems pretty strong. You're a little light on bodies, which you are aware I'm sure, and there are a couple game types that are almost always played at the events I've gone to that I feel this army struggles slightly with. Duality in particular seems like it will be challenging to win in considering your lower wound hero and battleline options.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Graywater said:

Sure it's easy to dispel, but it takes a cast away from your opponent to do so and we often arent looking to cast much besides mind razor. With 2 casters, you'll want something else to do, and for 30 points, you arent going to fit in anything that will be of any value. And fyreslayers being another big threat but not being able to do anything about it is a huge advantage as well.

With how many bonereapers there are out there, the amount of rend and mortal wounds youre packing @Chumphammer seems pretty strong. You're a little light on bodies, which you are aware I'm sure, and there are a couple game types that are almost always played at the events I've gone to that I feel this army struggles slightly with. Duality in particular seems like it will be challenging to win in considering your lower wound hero and battleline options.

I might be low on battle line models, but its something I am used to. Yes, throws out a a ton of Mortal wounds if you get too close. Duality my aim is to take and hold one while killing everything at no.2

yeah, palisade is easy enough to dispel, but as Graywater said its still a cast they have to make, and can fail. And yes, bottle necking fyreslayers could really help.

Will see how it runs when I finish putting all the bits together this week. Aiming to use it for WetcoastGT in April as I need to paint the shadow warriors, 3rd shrine and finish the chariots

I also changed the 2nd Medusa back to Shroud of despair. I hadnt noticed that the SQ was Bra9. So with the cauldron making her 10, I only need that 1pt drop on a high bra character to get the extra damage 

Edited by Chumphammer
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So since we are sharing lists, I am going to adepticon at the end of this month and am currently planning on this list:

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar

Leaders
Bloodwrack Shrine (220)
- General
- Command Trait: Devoted Disciples
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (300)
- Artefact: Iron Circlet
- Prayer: Blessing of Khaine
Morathi High Oracle of Khaine (480)
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor

Battleline
30 x Sisters of Slaughter (300)
- Barbed Whips and Bladed Bucklers
10 x Sisters of Slaughter (120)
- Barbed Whips and Bladed Bucklers
20 x Blood Sisters (480)

Units
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (90)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 117
 

Very similar to the list I've been running for almost a year now to good success. Big change is dropping 5 heartrenders to improve my medusa to have her shrine. Since she is my general, the boost to her survivability is a big deal.

i am still unsure whether shadow stone for the boost to mind razor chances or iron circlet is better. I'm currently feeling the circlet because blessing of khaine is nearly always important, whereas mind razor is sometimes not as important to get off. Still deciding on this one. 

I like to double up on mind razor so I have options, and we will be playing in the realms, and so realm spells will be options for me to cast as well.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Graywater said:

So since we are sharing lists, I am going to adepticon at the end of this month and am currently planning on this list:

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar

Leaders
Bloodwrack Shrine (220)
- General
- Command Trait: Devoted Disciples
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (300)
- Artefact: Iron Circlet
- Prayer: Blessing of Khaine
Morathi High Oracle of Khaine (480)
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor

Battleline
30 x Sisters of Slaughter (300)
- Barbed Whips and Bladed Bucklers
10 x Sisters of Slaughter (120)
- Barbed Whips and Bladed Bucklers
20 x Blood Sisters (480)

Units
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (90)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 117
 

Very similar to the list I've been running for almost a year now to good success. Big change is dropping 5 heartrenders to improve my medusa to have her shrine. Since she is my general, the boost to her survivability is a big deal.

i am still unsure whether shadow stone for the boost to mind razor chances or iron circlet is better. I'm currently feeling the circlet because blessing of khaine is nearly always important, whereas mind razor is sometimes not as important to get off. Still deciding on this one. 

I like to double up on mind razor so I have options, and we will be playing in the realms, and so realm spells will be options for me to cast as well.

I think thats a solid list, and Id be 50/50 on circlet and stone. I think Circlet is probably a good choice, as covered avatar turn 1 and 2 also (as sometimes it matters) Also with Morathi/SQ you have Rend 2, Rend 1 with snakes and you have MW output. Morathi can also snipe the OBR model that gives the reroll save to the units.

7 Drops is good, and just 5 heartrenders is fine.  Only having 1 witchbrew for 2 stacks can be tough but its manageable if you know what you are doing, and we know you do. Morathi is still a solid choice and having her in with the snakes is grand. 

If you army is decent painted and you are fun to play, I recon you will easily top 5 (and can take it out as a lot of people are not used to play VS DOK atm in the US)

Edited by Chumphammer
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Chumphammer said:

I think thats a solid list, and Id be 50/50 on circlet and stone. I think Circlet is probably a good choice, as covered avatar turn 1 and 2 also (as sometimes it matters) Also with Morathi/SQ you have Rend 2, Rend 1 with snakes and you have MW output. Morathi can also snipe the OBR model that gives the reroll save to the units.

7 Drops is good, and just 5 heartrenders is fine.  Only having 1 witchbrew for 2 stacks can be tough but its manageable if you know what you are doing, and we know you do. Morathi is still a solid choice and having her in with the snakes is grand. 

If you army is decent painted and you are fun to play, I recon you will easily top 5 (and can take it out as a lot of people are not used to play VS DOK atm in the US)

Thanks for the vote of confidence! I like including morathi because it really messes with the deployment and general decision making of my opponents, even if she doesnt actually do much offensively. 

1 witchbrew is a bit of a concern, but I've kinda got a system. The sisters of slaughter get witchbrew for battleshock immunity and some help with doing damage while I want for my opponent to get into position. Once that happens, I spring the trap, witchbrew goes to the snakes, and the sisters scoot out of the way. You're right in that many people dont play against daughters, so most people underestimate the survivability of the girls, and the damage potential of the snakes. 

My main concerns are twofold. First, the "big bads" being bonereapers and tzeentch, are both quite popular, but neither are played around me. So I am a bit concerned about getting caught unawares of something against those armies. Secondly, fyreslayers continue to be a thorn in my side. Seeing the palisade in your list makes me wish I could fit one in specifically for this matchup.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Graywater said:

being bonereapers and tzeentch, are both quite popular, but neither are played around me. So I am a bit concerned about getting caught unawares of something against those armies.

The OBR nexus terrain is a sleeper threat, def pay attention to that IMO. -1 to hit or no run with 1d6 charge can reallllly ****** things up. Hell, even -1 to cast is mean when mindrazors on a 7. 

Personally i go for Iron circlet 100% of the time over mind razor for exactly what you said. Mindrazor is a buff we can make do without for a turn, but blessing of Khaine is what keeps us alive. Doesnt stop me from rolling 1s and 2s all day for it though >.< 

The 1 hag is what would really concern me. Anyone who knows DoK is going to try and take that lone Hag out, then your really in a bad spot with bshock and no reroll wounds. Especially with DoT being a thing, flamers will straight up remove that cauldron if you get caught 18" away.

Doubling on mindrazor seems like a bit of a waste to me, but i can def see the value in redundancy as well. Plus like you said, realm spells are available. 

Im curious how you use Morathi, keep her as a caster for the majority or do you throw her into monster mode to bog down people asap? really wish her Command action wasn't general only!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Ser_namron said:

The OBR nexus terrain is a sleeper threat, def pay attention to that IMO. -1 to hit or no run with 1d6 charge can reallllly ****** things up. Hell, even -1 to cast is mean when mindrazors on a 7. 

Personally i go for Iron circlet 100% of the time over mind razor for exactly what you said. Mindrazor is a buff we can make do without for a turn, but blessing of Khaine is what keeps us alive. Doesnt stop me from rolling 1s and 2s all day for it though >.< 

The 1 hag is what would really concern me. Anyone who knows DoK is going to try and take that lone Hag out, then your really in a bad spot with bshock and no reroll wounds. Especially with DoT being a thing, flamers will straight up remove that cauldron if you get caught 18" away.

Doubling on mindrazor seems like a bit of a waste to me, but i can def see the value in redundancy as well. Plus like you said, realm spells are available. 

Im curious how you use Morathi, keep her as a caster for the majority or do you throw her into monster mode to bog down people asap? really wish her Command action wasn't general only!

 

Yeah, the 1 hag is absolutely a target for people, but I have yet to have somebody kill it in one turn. Actually it's been great bait, as people will go out of their way to try to snipe it, but dont realize how hard it is to do 13 wounds to a model that is -1 to hit and on a 3+ save (because I put it in cover against any army that seems like it may try to alpha it off). 

Double mind razor gives me flexibility to cast it with +1 if morathi is little, or from 2 different areas of the board if morathi goes forward. The army has 2 or 4 casts, depending on if morathi is big or little, and there are enough universal/realm spells that I never feel like I'm wasting casts. Plus there doesnt seem to be anything in our spell lore useful enough for me to give up the flexibility.

Morathi staying big or little depends on the matchup and what I need. I generally try to keep her small for turn one to get extra casts off with bonuses, but if there is something immediately threatening her, or if my opponent has something in range that i need to hold up, i will turn her early. I basically use her, or the threat of making a fast and unkillable monster, as a bully to force my opponent into making a mistake.

That's my general gameplan- present enough issues to force my opponent to make a lot of decisions. At some point, they're going to make a mistake, and I just have to capitalize on that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awesome man, thanks for the insight. I've had Morathi on the shelf for a long time because it seems like a model that can be used to great effect if you know what your doing, otherwise it becomes to large of a point sink without a ton of offensive power.  

Whats the consensus on secondary prayers? I take blessing of khaine-> catchecism--> then its either sacrament or rejuvenating crimson. 
Sacrament can be clutch on turn 2, but sometimes it just whiffs or is kinda useless after turn 2. rejuvination isnt amazing, but its nice to heal back some wounds on the shrines or other leaders.  Martyr is also pretty great, but i havent got to use that since the point increase ( oooooh how i miss 60pt hags lol) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Ser_namron said:

Awesome man, thanks for the insight. I've had Morathi on the shelf for a long time because it seems like a model that can be used to great effect if you know what your doing, otherwise it becomes to large of a point sink without a ton of offensive power.  

Whats the consensus on secondary prayers? I take blessing of khaine-> catchecism--> then its either sacrament or rejuvenating crimson. 
Sacrament can be clutch on turn 2, but sometimes it just whiffs or is kinda useless after turn 2. rejuvination isnt amazing, but its nice to heal back some wounds on the shrines or other leaders.  Martyr is also pretty great, but i havent got to use that since the point increase ( oooooh how i miss 60pt hags lol) 

I think the army is better without morathi, but she is definitely not bad. Certainly restricts your army composition though. 

As for prayers, I feel its really up to personal preference. Blessing is great in hag nar, but maybe not quite as much of a priority in some of the other temples. Similarly, I think catechism is way better in draichi ganeth. Personally, I'd go sacrament as a second choice regardless, but that's because I only run 1 hag, which means I get to benefit from it even after turn 2. I guess what I'm getting at is it is totally up to your list.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

What are the efficient builds in DoK? I'm curious as I don't know this army at all and today, GW revealed the new SC! DoK. I've seen that this army has probably (with orange dwarves) the least unit range. So, do you play always the same 1 or 2 builds or is there more?

Lists are very similar for exactly the reason you've identified, the list of units is very limited. Furthermore, we have a couple units that are considered poor, being the avatar of khaine (on foot) and the blood stalkers. And hagg nar is too powerful to take any other temple. Typically the decisions in list building boil down to a few smaller decisions. Do you bring morathi? Are you running witches or sisters of slaughter? Do you want to run allied shadow warriors for deep strike potential or stick with heartrenders? Besides those couple choices, most lists fall under more or less the same structure that you can see in the lists on the previous couple of pages. Roughly:

Slaughter queen on cauldron, medusa with mind razor, a couple hags, morathi or 20 blood sisters, 30-70 witches or sisters of slaughter, 1-2 units of heartrenders, shadow warriors, or scourgerunner chariots. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, FlatTooth said:

Maybe 1500 or 2k! We don’t tend to play other sizes unless it’s while we’re building up. 

Sure. Actually my previous post answers a lot of what you're asking about. The general gist is going to be at least one unit of 30 sisters of slaughter or witch aelves, a cauldron based hero (usually a slaughter queen for her command ability to fight in the hero phase), a hag or two, a medusa for mind razor, either morathi or 20 snakes, and maybe some heartrenders. The number of battleline aelves will depend on whether you want to run morathi and/or snakes. Then fill the rest with some heartrenders or allied shadow warriors. I can help more if you give me some input as to what you're looking to do or if there are particular units youd like to run or avoid.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey guys, I have recently ordered a Shrine for my Daughters (still unassembled, but some day..!) and I've been wondering about two things:

1. Is a free-walking Avatar of Khaine useful?

2. A bit of a modelling issue - the standard head for a Slaughter Queen is... well, unattractive. Anyone tried replacing it with something else? I've been wondering whether I could use a head from a Sorceress on Black Dragon... or, maybe, something from WH40K? Maybe I could steal a head from a Drukhari Succubus... or Lelith Hesperax? Has anyone tried that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...