AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

[Chumphammer]

4 minutes ago, Graywater said:

Your gotrek list only has 2 battleline.

Your second list is brutal though. I always forget how much more you can fit into a list without morathi. That many shadow warriors is bold. I find it funny how much heartrenders were maligned, yet theres an even better option available now. 

Just a type, meant to be 3 units of 10 SOS. 

2nd list is the one I am aiming to practice atm 

[Graywater]

5 minutes ago, Chumphammer said:

Just a type, meant to be 3 units of 10 SOS. 

2nd list is the one I am aiming to practice atm 

Gotcha. Does it seem like you could be in the running for the gotrek thing? That's the only way I'd run the list with him. 

[Chumphammer]

4 minutes ago, Graywater said:

Gotcha. Does it seem like you could be in the running for the gotrek thing? That's the only way I'd run the list with him. 

I am currently 2nd with a game in hand (2/3)

https://gotrek-glorious-gotrek.com/

Top is 147.89pts and I am 122.98

If I can get a top 10 finish with him I should be good 

[Graywater]

Just now, Chumphammer said:

I am currently 2nd with a game in hand (2/3)

https://gotrek-glorious-gotrek.com/

Top is 147.89pts and I am 122.98

If I can get a top 10 finish with him I should be good 

Oh I vote go for it then. That's not something that comes along often.

[Souleater]

Fellow Khainites, looking for suggestions to tweak this list, please.

 

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar

Leaders
Bloodwrack Shrine (220)
- General
- Trait: Devoted Disciples
- Artefact: Shadow Stone
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Hag Queen (90)
- Prayer: Catechism of Murder
Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (300)
- Artefact: Iron Circlet
- Prayer: Blessing of Khaine

Battleline
10 x Blood Sisters (280)
10 x Blood Sisters (280)
30 x Sisters of Slaughter (300)
- Barbed Whips and Blade Bucklers

Units
5 x Blood Stalkers (120)
5 x Blood Stalkers (120)
5 x Doomfire Warlocks (160)
- Lore of Shadows: Shroud of Despair

Battalions
Temple Nest (130)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 131
 

 

I wondered if it would be better to swap out the Doomfire's for some Khinerai, then use the remaining points to swap around the heroes to get a Slaughter Queen in there?

Thank you.

[Graywater]

9 hours ago, Souleater said:

Fellow Khainites, looking for suggestions to tweak this list, please.

 

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar

Leaders
Bloodwrack Shrine (220)
- General
- Trait: Devoted Disciples
- Artefact: Shadow Stone
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Hag Queen (90)
- Prayer: Catechism of Murder
Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (300)
- Artefact: Iron Circlet
- Prayer: Blessing of Khaine

Battleline
10 x Blood Sisters (280)
10 x Blood Sisters (280)
30 x Sisters of Slaughter (300)
- Barbed Whips and Blade Bucklers

Units
5 x Blood Stalkers (120)
5 x Blood Stalkers (120)
5 x Doomfire Warlocks (160)
- Lore of Shadows: Shroud of Despair

Battalions
Temple Nest (130)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 131
 

 

I wondered if it would be better to swap out the Doomfire's for some Khinerai, then use the remaining points to swap around the heroes to get a Slaughter Queen in there?

Thank you.

I think you're onto something with switching the warlocks for khinerai. The deep strike threat to steal objectives is a major part of the mind games we can play with the opponent's deployment/movement. If you are open to allies, shadow warriors can do the same sort of thing but have even more impact. More importantly though, you get to upgrade to a slaughter queen. Since you're running temple nest, you don't quite have the same range of offensive melee damage. The slaughter queen would go a long way to help shore up that deficit.

Edited February 1, 2020 by Graywater

[Souleater]

I will stick with the Khinerai for now as I have the models.

 

That leaves me with the points to take both a SQ and Hag, but only one can be on a cauldron. 

Tempted to make the SQ walk, because:

1. She keeps her 'fight twice' prayer.

2.Hag's Queen, and hence Witchbrew, is safer on the Caldron.

Leaves me at an awkward 60pts. But I can pick up an extra CP.

Still have an Artefact to hand out.

[Graywater]

25 minutes ago, Souleater said:

I will stick with the Khinerai for now as I have the models.

 

That leaves me with the points to take both a SQ and Hag, but only one can be on a cauldron. 

Tempted to make the SQ walk, because:

1. She keeps her 'fight twice' prayer.

2.Hag's Queen, and hence Witchbrew, is safer on the Caldron.

Leaves me at an awkward 60pts. But I can pick up an extra CP.

Still have an Artefact to hand out.

Just realized theres an issue. The slaughter queen only gets to use her fight twice command ability if she is the general. But you need the medusa to be the general to make your snakes battleline. Knowing that, having both be hags is probably better. You have the two artifacts I find myself using, so I have no input there.

[Souleater]

I think you're right.  👍🏼

[Snakeb1te]

What do you guys think of the below list? It utilises every model I own, without overdoing it on SoS or WE which are expensive and boring to paint en masse! I feel like this isn't as many wounds as I'd like (you're probably going to tell me to drop the Medusa), but I feel like this has a fair bit of punch among my casual group (Stormcast Eternals and Sylvaneth). Does this work? Is it worth moving the artifact over to the Medusa? 

 

Also how do I format this better? Why are there such huge spaces between lines...?

 

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine - Temple: Hagg Nar

LEADERS

Slaughter Queen on Cauldron of Blood (330)

- General

- Command Trait : Devoted Disciples

- Artefact : Thousand and One Dark Blessings

- Prayer : Catechism of Murder

 

Hag Queen (90)

- Prayer : Blessing of Khaine

 

Morathi High Oracle of Khaine (480)

- Lore of Shadows : The Withering

 

Bloodwrack Medusa (140)

- Lore of Shadows : Mindrazor

 

UNITS

15 x Blood Sisters (420)

20 x Witch Aelves (240) - Pairs of Sacrificial Knives

10 x Sisters of Slaughter (120) - Barbed Whips and Sacrificial Knives

10 x Sisters of Slaughter (120) - Barbed Whips and Sacrificial Knives

 

ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS

Balewind Vortex (40)

 

TOTAL: 1980/2000

EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0

WOUNDS: 100

LEADERS: 4/6

BATTLELINES: 3 (3+)

BEHEMOTHS: 1/4

ARTILLERY: 0/4

ARTEFACTS: 1/1

ALLIES: 0/400

Edited February 4, 2020 by Snakeb1te

[Graywater]

1 hour ago, Snakeb1te said:

What do you guys think of the below list? It utilises every model I own, without overdoing it on SoS or WE which are expensive and boring to paint en masse! I feel like this isn't as many wounds as I'd like (you're probably going to tell me to drop the Medusa), but I feel like this has a fair bit of punch among my casual group (Stormcast Eternals and Sylvaneth). Does this work? Is it worth moving the artifact over to the Medusa? 

 

Also how do I format this better? Why are there such huge spaces between lines...?

 

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine - Temple: Hagg Nar

LEADERS

Slaughter Queen on Cauldron of Blood (330)

- General

- Command Trait : Devoted Disciples

- Artefact : Thousand and One Dark Blessings

- Prayer : Catechism of Murder

 

Hag Queen (90)

- Prayer : Blessing of Khaine

 

Morathi High Oracle of Khaine (480)

- Lore of Shadows : The Withering

 

Bloodwrack Medusa (140)

- Lore of Shadows : Mindrazor

 

UNITS

15 x Blood Sisters (420)

20 x Witch Aelves (240) - Pairs of Sacrificial Knives

10 x Sisters of Slaughter (120) - Barbed Whips and Sacrificial Knives

10 x Sisters of Slaughter (120) - Barbed Whips and Sacrificial Knives

 

ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS

Balewind Vortex (40)

 

TOTAL: 1980/2000

EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0

WOUNDS: 100

LEADERS: 4/6

BATTLELINES: 3 (3+)

BEHEMOTHS: 1/4

ARTILLERY: 0/4

ARTEFACTS: 1/1

ALLIES: 0/400

You are going to be absolutely fine against stormcast and sylvaneth, especially with hagg nar. You have a pretty standard list, minus the absence of either kind of harpies. The choice to go morathi and a big unit of blood sisters is also a bit different, but I like it personally. Both your witch aelf unit and the blood sisters are one size increase away from getting the horde discount, so thatd be nice to get, though I wouldn't know where to get the points from except dropping the medusa and balewind. I dont know if it is worth it though, as a second spell caster is definitely a nice thing to have. Do you play in the realms? If so, I'd double up on mind razor. That way you have options for who can cast it and you arent wasting a spell slot because there are always other useful things to cast.

Your artifact choice isnt bad, as keeping that cauldron alive is important. However, what is maybe more important is keeping your buffs going. Shadow stone on the medusa is big to help get mind razor off, but perhaps not as good since the medusa isnt too hard to kill. Iron circlet is also good to give you rerolls for prayers. Relying on a 2/3 chance when you really need the buff never feels great. Regardless of whether you change the artifact, I'd move blessing of khaine to the cauldron, as that prayer is essential in keeping your units alive and the cauldron is much harder to kill than the lone hag. Plus, the cauldron is giving the 5++, so your consolidating the buffs with that move. 

As for formatting, I have no idea. I can tell you used warscroll builder, which is what is typically used, but I dont know why yours is spaced the way it is.

[Ser_namron]

Does anyone use old metal witch aelves instead of the new sculpts? I have a ton of OOP witches from like 92-2002 i bought when i started the army, and i was looking for some inspiration for painting them, but theirs not a ton out there.  I was going to convert some with whips and shields....but thats alotta work lol. 

[Snakeb1te]

5 hours ago, Graywater said:

You are going to be absolutely fine against stormcast and sylvaneth, especially with hagg nar. You have a pretty standard list, minus the absence of either kind of harpies. The choice to go morathi and a big unit of blood sisters is also a bit different, but I like it personally. Both your witch aelf unit and the blood sisters are one size increase away from getting the horde discount, so thatd be nice to get, though I wouldn't know where to get the points from except dropping the medusa and balewind. I dont know if it is worth it though, as a second spell caster is definitely a nice thing to have. Do you play in the realms? If so, I'd double up on mind razor. That way you have options for who can cast it and you arent wasting a spell slot because there are always other useful things to cast.

Your artifact choice isnt bad, as keeping that cauldron alive is important. However, what is maybe more important is keeping your buffs going. Shadow stone on the medusa is big to help get mind razor off, but perhaps not as good since the medusa isnt too hard to kill. Iron circlet is also good to give you rerolls for prayers. Relying on a 2/3 chance when you really need the buff never feels great. Regardless of whether you change the artifact, I'd move blessing of khaine to the cauldron, as that prayer is essential in keeping your units alive and the cauldron is much harder to kill than the lone hag. Plus, the cauldron is giving the 5++, so your consolidating the buffs with that move. 

As for formatting, I have no idea. I can tell you used warscroll builder, which is what is typically used, but I dont know why yours is spaced the way it is.

Do you mean the realm rules?  Aren't they just for casual/fun games as they seem a little unbalanced/random for competitive games.

 

Indeed I've gone for a block of Blood Sisters because I adore their models and boy can they put out the damage in the right conditions. I'd love to have them be tanky too with the Cauldron of Blood for a sweet 4+/5++.

 

The most important spell must be assigned to Morathi, as her natural +1 to cast would be pretty useful.

 

Actually I chose to put Catechism of Murder on the Cauldron precisely because it already has the defensive buffs that it does - do you think the unit underneath it also needs rerolls to the save? I thought putting it on the Hag would give it more versatility considering it is giving offensive buffs (+1 attack to witch elves, and the witch brew).

 

I tried to copy your formatting but I get massive spaces between paragraphs...

Edited February 4, 2020 by Snakeb1te

[Graywater]

4 minutes ago, Snakeb1te said:

Do you mean the realm rules?  Aren't they just for casual/fun games as they seem a little unbalanced/random for competitive games.

 

Indeed I've gone for a block of Blood Sisters because I adore their models and boy can they put out the damage in the right conditions. I'd love to have them be tanky too with the Cauldron of Blood for a sweet 4+/5++.

 

The most important spell must be assigned to Morathi, as her natural +1 to cast would be pretty useful.

 

Actually I chose to put Catechism of Murder on the Cauldron precisely because it already has the defensive buffs that it does - do you think the unit underneath it also needs rerolls to the save? I thought putting it on the Hag would give it more versatility considering it is giving offensive buffs (+1 attack to witch elves, and the witch brew).

 

I tried to copy your formatting but I get massive spaces between paragraphs...

Depending on where you are located will determine what is the norm regarding realm rules. Every 2 day event I've been to in the last year have used realm spells and all but 1 had predetermined realmscape features. So it is normal for me. I play in the Northeast US for reference. With that said, I agree morathi likes having the important mind razor spell. I like doubling up on it with the medusa though, because it opens up options in case one dies/is out of range/is casting realm spells. And morathis bonus to cast goes away once she turns, which she will do fairly early with your list only having 2 other threats (the snakes, and the witches to a lesser extent).

Your description of the tankiness you can get with the snakes by the cauldron is exactly why you want that defensive buff from the blessing of khaine prayer. It let's you ignore so much damage, and is more valuable than 6s to hit causing an extra hit. Numbers wise, it's getting an extra 33% value in damage ignored, versus the extra 16% offensive output. And having your models survive will lead to more damage in the long run over a small increase in damage for a turn, especially in an army where we get offensively stronger as the game goes on. This is why I personally value it most of all out of our prayers and want it on our hardest to kill unit.

[InSaint]

If you guys are interested in a Snake Heavy List, this is a semi-competitive list I have some success with. Takes some finesse to play but extremely rewarding and fun when played correctly. Reasonably low drop to give/take the 1st turn depending on your opponent's list.

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine | Temple: Khailebron

LEADERS

Bloodwrack Medusa (140)

• General - Command Trait : Mistress of Illusion
• Artefact : Crystal Heart
• Lore of Shadows : Mirror Dance

Morathi High Oracle of Khaine (480)

• Lore of Shadows : Mindrazor

Hag Queen (90)

• Artefact : Blood Sigil - Sacrament of Blood
• Prayer : Catechism of Murder

UNITS

• 5 x Blood Sisters (140)
• 10 x Blood Sisters (280)
• 10 x Blood Sisters (280)
• 5 x Blood Stalkers (120)
• 5 x Blood Stalkers (120)
• 5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (90)
• 5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (90)

BATTALIONS - Temple Nest (130)

ENDLESS SPELLS - Soulsnare Shackles (40)

TOTAL: 2000/2000, EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1 WOUNDS: 97 

TOTAL DROPS: 5

[Snakeb1te]

10 hours ago, Graywater said:

Depending on where you are located will determine what is the norm regarding realm rules. Every 2 day event I've been to in the last year have used realm spells and all but 1 had predetermined realmscape features. So it is normal for me. I play in the Northeast US for reference. With that said, I agree morathi likes having the important mind razor spell. I like doubling up on it with the medusa though, because it opens up options in case one dies/is out of range/is casting realm spells. And morathis bonus to cast goes away once she turns, which she will do fairly early with your list only having 2 other threats (the snakes, and the witches to a lesser extent).

Your description of the tankiness you can get with the snakes by the cauldron is exactly why you want that defensive buff from the blessing of khaine prayer. It let's you ignore so much damage, and is more valuable than 6s to hit causing an extra hit. Numbers wise, it's getting an extra 33% value in damage ignored, versus the extra 16% offensive output. And having your models survive will lead to more damage in the long run over a small increase in damage for a turn, especially in an army where we get offensively stronger as the game goes on. This is why I personally value it most of all out of our prayers and want it on our hardest to kill unit.

I have three follow up questions for you as you seem to have the math figured out

• Well I wanted to use the Medusa on the Balewind, but is she really worth 180 points? Removing her along with the Balewind would mean I can bump to max size the Witch Aelves and the Blood Sisters, which still leaves me with 80 points - Geminids then? Or still the Balewind for Morathi?

With a Balewind we could get Morathi to a 2+ save (Cauldron and Balewind), with a -1 to hit from her beauty, and never have spell range issues (you mentioned having a backup caster is handy, but with such high defense, and double range to cast & 6" Morathi is able to hit anywhere and the Medusa may not be needed). Question is whether I would get 480 points value out of her if I never transform, simply using her as a mage.... that being said, with so much damage mitigation if she did transform she'd have a healthy amount of wounds in her snake form. If none of that persuades you, then I suppose Geminids would be better over the Balewind.

• The other question is whether it is always worth having a Slaughter Queen on cauldron rather than hag... I could shave 30 points off the army if I swapped them  but I suppose that command ability is probably worth 100 points on it's own isn't it..?
• Does the cauldron benefit from its own +1 to save? 

Edited February 5, 2020 by Snakeb1te

[Graywater]

2 hours ago, Snakeb1te said:

I have three follow up questions for you as you seem to have the math figured out

• Well I wanted to use the Medusa on the Balewind, but is she really worth 180 points? Removing her along with the Balewind would mean I can bump to max size the Witch Aelves and the Blood Sisters, which still leaves me with 80 points - Geminids then? Or still the Balewind for Morathi?

With a Balewind we could get Morathi to a 2+ save (Cauldron and Balewind), with a -1 to hit from her beauty, and never have spell range issues (you mentioned having a backup caster is handy, but with such high defense, and double range to cast & 6" Morathi is able to hit anywhere and the Medusa may not be needed). Question is whether I would get 480 points value out of her if I never transform, simply using her as a mage.... that being said, with so much damage mitigation if she did transform she'd have a healthy amount of wounds in her snake form. If none of that persuades you, then I suppose Geminids would be better over the Balewind.

• The other question is whether it is always worth having a Slaughter Queen on cauldron rather than hag... I could shave 30 points off the army if I swapped them  but I suppose that command ability is probably worth 100 points on it's own isn't it..?
• Does the cauldron benefit from its own +1 to save? 

I like the medusa, though the tradeoff of the second caster versus expanding those other units is a tough one and probably going to be up to some playtesting by you to see which way you personally prefer. I will say that I dont think morathi needs the balewind. She doesnt have range issues and she's already a tank capable of getting -2 to hit and a 3+ without doing anything you wouldn't typically do anyways (extra -1 from look out sir, and cauldron +1 to save). Some people play for her to stay small as long as possible. It's totally a match by match basis and something that comes with practice, but in an army with only 2 offensive threats, she's going to need to turn to her big form at some point. Learning when to do that is a skill into itself because a lot of the time you'll want to take advantage of the extra spells and bonus to range and cast in her small form. And to bring it back to the balewind, once she turns big, you have nobody that can utilize it. Geminids are scary because they go out into the midfield to effect your opponents army, but that's exactly where you are going to, and so it is easy to have those used against you. You dont want to get hit by either effect of those things. Getting something that can be worked around would be my suggestion. I like the prismatic palisade or soulsnare shackles a lot for messing with the movement of my opponent. 

Have you looked into the harpy units? They arent a bad include if you drop the medusa and only buff one squad to full size. They (heartrenders in particular) are great for coming onto the board in later turns to snag objectives. Even just the threat of them doing that will force your opponent to try to accommodate for them.

If the slaughter queen is your general, like is the case with your list, you want her. The command ability is going to be huge in getting extra output from the few high offensive output units you have. Also it let's you get around some activation shenanigans that go off in the combat phase, but dont come into effect if you fight in the hero phase. And the 30 points from her isnt getting you much.

Yes, the cauldron gets her own buff. Units are always in range of themselves. 

[Snakeb1te]

50 minutes ago, Graywater said:

I like the medusa, though the tradeoff of the second caster versus expanding those other units is a tough one and probably going to be up to some playtesting by you to see which way you personally prefer. I will say that I dont think morathi needs the balewind. She doesnt have range issues and she's already a tank capable of getting -2 to hit and a 3+ without doing anything you wouldn't typically do anyways (extra -1 from look out sir, and cauldron +1 to save). Some people play for her to stay small as long as possible. It's totally a match by match basis and something that comes with practice, but in an army with only 2 offensive threats, she's going to need to turn to her big form at some point. Learning when to do that is a skill into itself because a lot of the time you'll want to take advantage of the extra spells and bonus to range and cast in her small form. And to bring it back to the balewind, once she turns big, you have nobody that can utilize it. Geminids are scary because they go out into the midfield to effect your opponents army, but that's exactly where you are going to, and so it is easy to have those used against you. You dont want to get hit by either effect of those things. Getting something that can be worked around would be my suggestion. I like the prismatic palisade or soulsnare shackles a lot for messing with the movement of my opponent. 

Have you looked into the harpy units? They arent a bad include if you drop the medusa and only buff one squad to full size. They (heartrenders in particular) are great for coming onto the board in later turns to snag objectives. Even just the threat of them doing that will force your opponent to try to accommodate for them.

If the slaughter queen is your general, like is the case with your list, you want her. The command ability is going to be huge in getting extra output from the few high offensive output units you have. Also it let's you get around some activation shenanigans that go off in the combat phase, but dont come into effect if you fight in the hero phase. And the 30 points from her isnt getting you much.

Yes, the cauldron gets her own buff. Units are always in range of themselves. 

I agree that that the medusa v max size conundrum is going to be down to personal preference - I suppose the former will be better for my wallet given I do not yet own the additional box of medusa and w.aelves. 

I feel like Morathi transformed is ok, but I was under the impression she's more of a monster tarpit rather than actually putting out  much damage. Chances are  I'll want an excuse to use the big model if just for the fact I painted it!

I have avoided Khinerai for an admittedly petty reason, in that the models are beautiful but the rules for them mean they're incredibly frail and easy to kill, which is something that bothers me considering they look like elite troops. I am aware of their incredible utility (I use Chaos furies in my Slaves army) and I love hit n run units usually, but I tend to prefer tough elite units (melusai with all the buffs), or hordes that are either glass cannons or tarpits. Let's just say I'm voluntarily hurting myself for irrational reasons!

I forgot about look out sir, indeed that does make Morathi quite a bit more resilient than I thought. Plus with the cute melee profile it could be fun to have her follow a squad into the fray.

Yeah I assumed the slaughter queen would be the no brainer pick. It's a little frustrating that she has to be the general to do it, as this affects the viability of another list I was interested in (Temple Nest). 

The advice about the geminids is a good shout - I just feel like they're an auto include because of the far range they have, and can be hitting backline shooting units like Kurnoth Hunters and Vanguard-Raptors. I considered both Palisade and the Shackles too, but I feel like both of those could end up hurting my own units too. In any case, with all your advice I'll be sure to playtest these.

Thanks again for your thorough replies - it is people like you that make me enthusiastic to visit this board.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Snakeb1te

[Graywater]

40 minutes ago, Snakeb1te said:

I agree that that the medusa v max size conundrum is going to be down to personal preference - I suppose the former will be better for my wallet given I do not yet own the additional box of medusa and w.aelves. 

I feel like Morathi transformed is ok, but I was under the impression she's more of a monster tarpit rather than actually putting out  much damage. Chances are  I'll want an excuse to use the big model if just for the fact I painted it!

I have avoided Khinerai for an admittedly petty reason, in that the models are beautiful but the rules for them mean they're incredibly frail and easy to kill, which is something that bothers me considering they look like elite troops. I am aware of their incredible utility (I use Chaos furies in my Slaves army) and I love hit n run units usually, but I tend to prefer tough elite units (melusai with all the buffs), or hordes that are either glass cannons or tarpits. Let's just say I'm voluntarily hurting myself for irrational reasons!

I forgot about look out sir, indeed that does make Morathi quite a bit more resilient than I thought. Plus with the cute melee profile it could be fun to have her follow a squad into the fray.

Yeah I assumed the slaughter queen would be the no brainer pick. It's a little frustrating that she has to be the general to do it, as this affects the viability of another list I was interested in (Temple Nest). 

The advice about the geminids is a good shout - I just feel like they're an auto include because of the far range they have, and can be hitting backline shooting units like Kurnoth Hunters and Vanguard-Raptors. I considered both Palisade and the Shackles too, but I feel like both of those could end up hurting my own units too. In any case, with all your advice I'll be sure to playtest these.

Thanks again for your thorough replies - it is people like you that make me enthusiastic to visit this board.

Thanks for the kind words. Most of your points are pretty succinct, so I wont comment on them, but I do want to say a quick thing on morathi. You are right in that she is a big tarpit. She is one of the best in the game in this regard. In this instance, she is a threat to your opponent not in the damage she does, but in the utility of holding up pretty much any unit you want. This allows you to focus on the other threats piecemeal. Shes also the model that my opponents have gone out of their way to play around the most, and I think having her in my army has indirectly won me several games, just by my opponent reacting to her instead of to the mission.

[MirageFive]

I'd like to get thoughts on this list:

Hagg Nar:
Bloodwrack Shrine (General) - 220
Hag Queen on Cauldron - 300
Hag Queen - 90
20 Blood Sisters - 480
30 Sisters - Bucklers - 300
10 Witches - Paired Knives - 120
5 Heartrenders - 90
5 Heartrenders - 90
3 Scourgerunners - 150
3 Scourgerunners - 150
Total - 1990

The list would be used for a variety of Pitched Battle missions. Typically, my group randomly rolls for a mission when we show up for a pick-up game. 

I have considered whether I need the Medusa on a Shrine and the Heartrenders. I could drop the Shrine down to a Medusa on foot, lose the Heartrenders, and fit another Hag Queen and 20 Witches instead.
 

Edited February 6, 2020 by MirageFive

[Chumphammer]

Anyone had a chance to play vs the new DoT yet?

Wonder how we do matched up vs them, We have speed and durability so i think we can do alright vs them  as our characters can be a bit more survivable vs alpha strikes 

[Graywater]

19 hours ago, MirageFive said:

I'd like to get thoughts on this list:

Hagg Nar:
Bloodwrack Shrine (General) - 220
Hag Queen on Cauldron - 300
Hag Queen - 90
20 Blood Sisters - 480
30 Sisters - Bucklers - 300
10 Witches - Paired Knives - 120
5 Heartrenders - 90
5 Heartrenders - 90
3 Scourgerunners - 150
3 Scourgerunners - 150
Total - 1990

The list would be used for a variety of Pitched Battle missions. Typically, my group randomly rolls for a mission when we show up for a pick-up game. 

I have considered whether I need the Medusa on a Shrine and the Heartrenders. I could drop the Shrine down to a Medusa on foot, lose the Heartrenders, and fit another Hag Queen and 20 Witches instead.
 

Your army is quite similar to the list that came 4th at lvo. Your suggested changes pretty much match his list exactly. He used a slaughter queen as the general instead is all. So the list is strong clearly. I like the inclusion of at least one group of heartrenders personally, just to be an annoyance to your opponent and super flexible response unit.

[MirageFive]

Thanks! I had actually seen his list and it included a bunch of units I already like.

Another variation I'm actually considering is something like this:

Hagg Nar:
Slaughter Queen on Cauldron (General) - 330
Hag Queen - 90
Hag Queen - 90
30 Sisters - Bucklers - 300
30 Witches - Paired Knives - 300
10 Witches - Bucklers - 120
20 Blood Sisters - 480
3 Scourgerunners - 150
10 Shadow Warriors - 110
Total - 1970

[Lucentia]

On 2/5/2020 at 11:36 PM, Chumphammer said:

Anyone had a chance to play vs the new DoT yet?

Wonder how we do matched up vs them, We have speed and durability so i think we can do alright vs them  as our characters can be a bit more survivable vs alpha strikes 

I haven't played against them yet, but I agree with your napkin assessment, we're probably also one of the few armies that can reliably grind through Horror tarpits with hero phase activation and combat buffs.  The main concern would be just how much ranged offense they can kick out with Flamers,  even though Hagg Nar defense I don't think it would be that tricky for them to just remove any units which don't have Blessing of Khaine up.

[Chumphammer]

20 hours ago, MirageFive said:

Thanks! I had actually seen his list and it included a bunch of units I already like.

Another variation I'm actually considering is something like this:

Hagg Nar:
Slaughter Queen on Cauldron (General) - 330
Hag Queen - 90
Hag Queen - 90
30 Sisters - Bucklers - 300
30 Witches - Paired Knives - 300
10 Witches - Bucklers - 120
20 Blood Sisters - 480
3 Scourgerunners - 150
10 Shadow Warriors - 110
Total - 1970

No medusa for Mindrazor?
I think its best to go 6 scourge runners or 30 Shadow warriors over the 3 and 10. Going all in on one type of ranged offence I feel is better than a little bit on two. I really like 6 Scourgerunners, but I dont think its something I will run as I just doesnt suit my playstyle 

Edited February 7, 2020 by Chumphammer