AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

[Ggom]

Hey folks, been a lurker for a while and recently decided to pick up AoS. I am going with Daughters because the models are beautiful. It’s taking time to paint but honestly it’s really fun painting witch aelves! 

Question for folks:

I dislike the masks on these girls, IMO the face sculpts are pretty and should not be hidden. Do you think players would mind if I used the aelf faces for units even if they are supposed to be masked? For instance - Sisters of Slaughter would just be witch aelves with whips.

[Jais]

I've been thinking lately about the influx of new insane melee damaging armies. Gristlegore, 4 Bloodthirsters, etc. and am more now then ever feeling like shooting will come back into the meta. That said, the obvious DoK response is "play Khalibron" but I've been thinking about options a bit more thorough than that. I'm thinking it could* be pretty strong to draft the option to once-in-a-tournament run Morathi as an Aelf mage. Thinking here Balewind, (+1 spell, +1 cover, +6 inches to spells. )  and Pit of Shades can potentially start a ranged damage train. I also think this strat will absolutely not be worth it if I can't kill a 7HP Slaan Starmaster turn 1. That said, it seems her warscroll +1 to cast, hopefully Arcane +1 to cast will open up options for 
1) Pit of Shades 
2) Arane Bolt ( modified 10+ is d3) 
3) Arnzipals Black Horror
4) ??Some Realm Spell??

The problem here is that it seems, on average, I'd only accrue some ~4MWs per turn. Not optimal to say the least...

Any ideas from folks on how to further this concept. I feel it has potential, especially if you can erase a Bloodsecrator, Slaan Starmaster, 4 of the teleporting Vanguard Raptors, Arkanaut Ironclad, or anything else as strategically valuable as so by going first turn 1.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Jais

[whispersofblood]

 

8 hours ago, Jais said:

I've been thinking lately about the influx of new insane melee damaging armies. Gristlegore, 4 Bloodthirsters, etc. and am more now then ever feeling like shooting will come back into the meta. That said, the obvious DoK response is "play Khalibron" but I've been thinking about options a bit more thorough than that. I'm thinking it could* be pretty strong to draft the option to once-in-a-tournament run Morathi as an Aelf mage. Thinking here Balewind, (+1 spell, +1 cover, +6 inches to spells. )  and Pit of Shades can potentially start a ranged damage train. I also think this strat will absolutely not be worth it if I can't kill a 7HP Slaan Starmaster turn 1. That said, it seems her warscroll +1 to cast, hopefully Arcane +1 to cast will open up options for 
1) Pit of Shades 
2) Arane Bolt ( modified 10+ is d3) 
3) Arnzipals Black Horror
4) ??Some Realm Spell??

The problem here is that it seems, on average, I'd only accrue some ~4MWs per turn. Not optimal to say the least...

Any ideas from folks on how to further this concept. I feel it has potential, especially if you can erase a Bloodsecrator, Slaan Starmaster, 4 of the teleporting Vanguard Raptors, Arkanaut Ironclad, or anything else as strategically valuable as so by going first turn 1.

Yeah I was thinking about this exact issue, and still it's almost always better to be Hagg Narr and ran into the enemy. I think shooting will probably kill of medeusa builds though.

I played two gunlines, and a skaven ranged mortal wound faction. And tbh putting blessing on the right unit, bucklers and Hagg narr I shrugged off the dmg from almost all of the shooting. 

The only shooting I couldn't shrug of was 4 ballistas ordinator and hurricanum over a double turn. But -1 to hit doesn't do anything there.

Morathi also helps significantly when it comes to navigating the opposition's shooting phase.

I took Pit of Shades on Morathi to do exactly as you are suggesting and erase foot heroes. But, more often than not I transformed Morathi almost right away. So I should have stuck with shroud of despair like I intended. And, not taking mindrazor on the medusa is folly.

Edited April 10, 2019 by whispersofblood

[DJMoose]

13 hours ago, Ggom said:

Hey folks, been a lurker for a while and recently decided to pick up AoS. I am going with Daughters because the models are beautiful. It’s taking time to paint but honestly it’s really fun painting witch aelves! 

Question for folks:

I dislike the masks on these girls, IMO the face sculpts are pretty and should not be hidden. Do you think players would mind if I used the aelf faces for units even if they are supposed to be masked? For instance - Sisters of Slaughter would just be witch aelves with whips.

As long as the weapons they are equipped with is obvious, and you tell your opponent what the unit is, I doubt that would be an issue.

[Mutton]

Hey, has anyone tried converting 40k Wyches into DoK WE/SoS? They cost half of a DoK box, so for $60 you'd get 20 ladies. I'm just wondering if the sprues are conducive to easy conversions.

[Lucentia]

I've used Wych weapons on Witches, but not whole bodies.  Not to say you couldn't do it, but the aesthetic is quite different (and a little too sci-fi, perhaps), there's some pipes and cabling on them that you'd want to shave down for sure.  Also I think most of the right arm pieces are holding pistols, not sure if there are enough arms in the box to arm them all with two melee weapons.  Do note also that the proportions are quite different, with the Wyches being markedly more muscular than the Witch Aelves (also also four of the Wych torsos are technically 'male' ones though I doubt that would make much difference.

[Overread]

@Ggom You could also get creative and instead of a mask you could use paint to "paint" a facial mark on the character. A tattoo replacing the mask. If you look at the deamonettes you can see swirls and markings done to good effect on their bodies (on the GW website) 

 

 

The Witches of the Temple of Ggom, forgoing the traditional rites instead tattoo the faces of Sisters of Slaughter using rare metals mixed with pigment. The process is performed without any pain relief and the witch must maintain perfect composure so that her markings remain perfect as they are worked upon her skin. The process is reported to be as painful as the blazing mask of gold others of their kin wear - some even say that its a far more intense trial for any break in concentration will result in a mark that will remain forever upon the witch. Marking her failure for the rest of her life. 

[Cheby]

On 4/10/2019 at 5:26 PM, Mutton said:

Hey, has anyone tried converting 40k Wyches into DoK WE/SoS? They cost half of a DoK box, so for $60 you'd get 20 ladies. I'm just wondering if the sprues are conducive to easy conversions.

So I've tried this and it was harder than expected and I'm not sure 100 percent I like the results as there were a couple of big issues I encountered when making them. 

There are cables, grenades, buttons and ammo pouches all over the models which need to be removed. This took far longer than I expected it to.

The arms weren't easily compatible. I had to remove shields off of arms so I could then glue them on. Also the arms are different widths between the kits. Again this took a long time to sort out.

The two kits have different head joints. The witch elf heads lack a neck which meant each head had to have a blob of green stuff to hold the head up high enough to look normal. Don't even get me started on the hair, I gave up and used the masks. 

Finally the wyches are slightly smaller on the battlefield. They aren't jumping off of rocks or doing other similar poses and this makes them stand out as different which combined with the masks meant they looked less like witch elves than I wanted.

I saved money doing the conversion but I probably spent 5 times longer making a unit I'm not super happy with, doesn't fit in with the rest of my army and will probably be replacing in the summer.

 

[Lightbox]

When it comes to wych Aelves the general use is max unit with dual knives right?

What about sisters of slaughter though? Are they usually more useful with shields or knives and minimum units or large units to make use of the 2" range?

[Lucentia]

4 hours ago, Lightbox said:

When it comes to wych Aelves the general use is max unit with dual knives right?

What about sisters of slaughter though? Are they usually more useful with shields or knives and minimum units or large units to make use of the 2" range?

This thread may very well help when it comes to the relative merits of Sisters and Witches:

Personally I think all the weapon options have merit, but are best suited for different tasks. 

[Lightbox]

1 hour ago, Lucentia said:

This thread may very well help when it comes to the relative merits of Sisters and Witches:

Personally I think all the weapon options have merit, but are best suited for different tasks. 

Ooh awesome! Didn't see this one. Thanks a bunch!

[Ggom]

On 4/10/2019 at 6:47 PM, Overread said:

@Ggom You could also get creative and instead of a mask you could use paint to "paint" a facial mark on the character. A tattoo replacing the mask. If you look at the deamonettes you can see swirls and markings done to good effect on their bodies (on the GW website) 

 

 

The Witches of the Temple of Ggom, forgoing the traditional rites instead tattoo the faces of Sisters of Slaughter using rare metals mixed with pigment. The process is performed without any pain relief and the witch must maintain perfect composure so that her markings remain perfect as they are worked upon her skin. The process is reported to be as painful as the blazing mask of gold others of their kin wear - some even say that its a far more intense trial for any break in concentration will result in a mark that will remain forever upon the witch. Marking her failure for the rest of her life. 

This sounds awesome! I am thnking of runnng a renegade temple anyway - a break away from the cult of morathi that has chosen to return to their khainite roots and now wanders the realms seeking to restore their god. No melusai - these would have been purged from their ranks early on during their awakening - but some of the khinerai are tolerated. Aside from Khaine they also honor Kharybtar; and his children often lend them their strength in battle, especially when they seek out their former brethren.

[Ggom]

19 hours ago, Cheby said:

So I've tried this and it was harder than expected and I'm not sure 100 percent I like the results as there were a couple of big issues I encountered when making them. 

There are cables, grenades, buttons and ammo pouches all over the models which need to be removed. This took far longer than I expected it to.

The arms weren't easily compatible. I had to remove shields off of arms so I could then glue them on. Also the arms are different widths between the kits. Again this took a long time to sort out.

The two kits have different head joints. The witch elf heads lack a neck which meant each head had to have a blob of green stuff to hold the head up high enough to look normal. Don't even get me started on the hair, I gave up and used the masks. 

Finally the wyches are slightly smaller on the battlefield. They aren't jumping off of rocks or doing other similar poses and this makes them stand out as different which combined with the masks meant they looked less like witch elves than I wanted.

I saved money doing the conversion but I probably spent 5 times longer making a unit I'm not super happy with, doesn't fit in with the rest of my army and will probably be replacing in the summer.

 

I have some dark eldar witch models and agree - the propportions are different. The witch aelves are more lithe and fantastical whereas the dark eldar are chunkier and more “realistic”

and of course, those high tech bits look like a pain to remove

[Ggom]

Question - I want to run Kharybdiss because the models look cool and fit in visually with daughters. Does anyone have thoughts on how to make this work?

I’ve never played the game before, so cant just look at the warscroll and know what they are good for. What would their battlefield role be? Sweeping chumps? Being tanky? Fighting other big monsters?

[bernoodist]

Greetings All,

Im starting with DoK and have some questions on models, i have the following but planning more, So as you can can see i have a fair bit ahead of me in painting and assembly...more likely mods were i can

20 Witch Elves, assembled and painted with twin daggers (good deal second hand)

3 Boxes of Witch Elves - with the 30 WE was planning on dual blades but are the bucklers worth it as may drop in 10 with bucklers, or are Sisters of slaughter worth a look in ? , and can these be assembled with the standard witch heads as dont like the mask look

2 Boxes of Khineri - are Heartrenders or Life takers better?  , or a bit of both as i could do 5 and 5 of each, again would be using witch heads as dont like the masks unless they cant be assembled as such

Box of Doomfire warlocks - looking for alternative heads that look more elven

Morathai - looking for alternate wings , something leathery as dont like the ones she comes with

Im also planning on Melusai and prefer the blood stalkers witch heads/bodies over the blood sister masks, is it possible to assemble the Blood sisters glaives on the blood stalkers bodies and heads ?

Cheers

[Rhargar]

Hello, i like appearance of these sweet ladies, so i´m thinking about starting with an army of the Daughters of Khaine. 

Is the Battleforce Daughters Of Khaine - Devoted Of Morathi a good way to start?

And what else should i put on my shopping list?

 

 

[Gecktron]

3 hours ago, bernoodist said:

Greetings All,

Im starting with DoK and have some questions on models, i have the following but planning more, So as you can can see i have a fair bit ahead of me in painting and assembly...more likely mods were i can

20 Witch Elves, assembled and painted with twin daggers (good deal second hand)

3 Boxes of Witch Elves - with the 30 WE was planning on dual blades but are the bucklers worth it as may drop in 10 with bucklers, or are Sisters of slaughter worth a look in ? , and can these be assembled with the standard witch heads as dont like the mask look

2 Boxes of Khineri - are Heartrenders or Life takers better?  , or a bit of both as i could do 5 and 5 of each, again would be using witch heads as dont like the masks unless they cant be assembled as such

Box of Doomfire warlocks - looking for alternative heads that look more elven

Morathai - looking for alternate wings , something leathery as dont like the ones she comes with

Im also planning on Melusai and prefer the blood stalkers witch heads/bodies over the blood sister masks, is it possible to assemble the Blood sisters glaives on the blood stalkers bodies and heads ?

Cheers

1. I wouldn't go all out on Witch Aelfs. The new Generals Handbook is around the corner and its possible the current Witch Aelf build gets nerfed. I would build atleast 20 Sisters of Slaughter. 
WE heads should fit in most cases, but you have to check carefully for each model as some whips may collide with the hair from the WE heads. 

2. I use 5-10 Heartrenders in most games. They are a great distraction or can help you take backfield objectives. I haven't played Lifetakers yet but they look good as well. I would build 5 of each.
Using the Lifetaker heads for the Heartrenders should work without a problem. 

3. Blood Stalker heads fit on Blood Sister heads without a problem. 

48 minutes ago, Rhargar said:

Hello, i like appearance of these sweet ladies, so i´m thinking about starting with an army of the Daughters of Khaine. 

Is the Battleforce Daughters Of Khaine - Devoted Of Morathi a good way to start?

And what else should i put on my shopping list?

The Battleforce is a great start. You can get a 1000 points force out of this box without buying anything else:

Leaders
Bloodwrack Shrine (220)
- General
Hag Queen (60)
Slaughter Queen (100)

Battleline
10 x Witch Aelves (100)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives

Units
5 x Blood Sisters (140)
10 x Khinerai Heartrenders (160)

Behemoths
Avatar of Khaine (180)

Total: 960 / 1000

Taking the Bloodwrack Shrine as your Warlord allows you to take Blood Sisters as Battleline units. So you can start playing right away. You can also build the Cauldron of Blood, if you don't want to build towards a snake army. In that case you would need a few more Witch Aelfs/Sisters of Slaughter to fill your Battleline. 

[Lucentia]

5 hours ago, Ggom said:

Question - I want to run Kharybdiss because the models look cool and fit in visually with daughters. Does anyone have thoughts on how to make this work?

I’ve never played the game before, so cant just look at the warscroll and know what they are good for. What would their battlefield role be? Sweeping chumps? Being tanky? Fighting other big monsters?

The Kharybdiss is, unfortunately, saddled with a not particularly inspiring warscroll, so as monster choices go it is not the most optimal pick.  However if you really like the model it is fairly cheap in terms of points, and there's nothing wrong with trying to make it work for you.  It's most interesting feature to me is the 3" range on its primary melee attacks, which allow it to sneak into the edges of combat and deal some damage whilst being fairly safe from retaliation, but its damage output is not huge.  The Abyssal Howl could combo well with the Mindrazor spell, but it's using the old wording of 'bravery' versus 'bravery characteristic' so I'm not sure if that actually works per the rules as written. It's a warscroll with quite a confused battlefield role I think!

I might suggest that the Hydra could be more useful in a DoK list if you want an allied monster because it can work as a moderately tanky block in some circumstances thanks to its regeneration.  But if your heart is set on trying out a Kharybdiss I would probably try and use it as a counter-charge element maybe?

Edited April 13, 2019 by Lucentia

[Lucentia]

Double post, my apologies.

Edited April 13, 2019 by Lucentia

[Ggom]

3 hours ago, Lucentia said:

The Kharybdiss is, unfortunately, saddled with a not particularly inspiring warscroll, so as monster choices go it is not the most optimal pick.  However if you really like the model it is fairly cheap in terms of points, and there's nothing wrong with trying to make it work for you.  It's most interesting feature to me is the 3" range on its primary melee attacks, which allow it to sneak into the edges of combat and deal some damage whilst being fairly safe from retaliation, but its damage output is not huge.  The Abyssal Howl could combo well with the Mindrazor spell, but it's using the old wording of 'bravery' versus 'bravery characteristic' so I'm not sure if that actually works per the rules as written. It's a warscroll with quite a confused battlefield role I think!

I might suggest that the Hydra could be more useful in a DoK list if you want an allied monster because it can work as a moderately tanky block in some circumstances thanks to its regeneration.  But if your heart is set on trying out a Kharybdiss I would probably try and use it as a counter-charge element maybe?

Lore wise, are hydra the progeny of Kharybtar? I really want to hook into the earlier confrontation between Kharybtar and Morathi since my renegade temple should have a preference of alliance with others that hate morathi. Also how often do warscrolls forstuff like the Kharybdiss get updated? Does it happen annually?

[Lucentia]

I do not believe that the Hydra and Kharybdiss have any lore connection, they just share the same kit, but I'm no expert.  If you have a cool flavour hook like that then I think including a Kharybdiss regardless of how 'optimal' it is.  Alternatively if you're feeling creative you could perhaps kit-bash a Cauldron of Blood which is being carried by a Kharybdiss somehow?

[Ggom]

*deleted, double post*

Edited April 13, 2019 by Ggom

[Ggom]

38 minutes ago, Lucentia said:

I do not believe that the Hydra and Kharybdiss have any lore connection, they just share the same kit, but I'm no expert.  If you have a cool flavour hook like that then I think including a Kharybdiss regardless of how 'optimal' it is.  Alternatively if you're feeling creative you could perhaps kit-bash a Cauldron of Blood which is being carried by a Kharybdiss somehow?

T_T

Decisions decisions.

In other news, how are people kitbashing their alternative hag queens? Where do you get the cups?

[Lightbox]

So I can happily confirm that blood sister chest plates (with a little bit of cutting for some legs like this) and heads fit very nicely on witch elf bodies to make some great looking squad champions! May try them on a spare hag I have too to make her look interesting.

[Ravenborn]

The kharybdis model is so much better than the hydra...  but I think the hydra rules are so much better for the DoK.  I’d much rather have the ranged attacks and guaranteed  regeneration of the hydra than a slight bravery debuff. 

Role-wise, it’s a damage magnet, attracting firepower away from your other fragile units.

I definitely want to get one, because I loves me some c’thulhu-inspired ocean-spawn to terrorize my enemies.

 

As far as hag and slaughter queens, I used the delf sorceress for mine.