AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

[Jais]

Winter FAQ updates to Daughters



1) https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Core-Rules-and-Bases-Sizes-EN.pdf 
"Q: If I use an ability that allows a unit to do something in the hero phase as if it were a different phase, can I use abilities that could affect it in that phase in the hero phase? For example, if I was allowed to make a shooting attack with a unit in my hero phase as if it were my shooting phase, would an ability that allowed me to make an extra attack with that unit in my shooting phase apply? A: No to both questions. Abilities that state they can only be used or only apply in a certain phase can only be used in that phase and/or their effects will only apply in that phase. So, if an ability says you can use it in your movement phase, it can only be used in your movement phase, or if an ability said it applied in your shooting phase, you can only apply its effects in your shooting phase, and so on."

~ Orgy of Slaughter no longer procs Kraith Allegiance Abilities.
~ Orgy of Slaughter no longer enables Dance of Doom from your Slaughter Queen on foot.
~ Orgy of Slaughter no longer enables Venom of Nagendra from your Slaughter Queen.
~ Martyrs Sacrifice no longer procs in an enemies round of hero phase attacking(vs. Daughters, Stormcast, Khorne, etc.)

2) https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/age_of_sigmar_daughters_of_khaine_designers_commentary_en.pdf 
"Q: Do any wounds or mortal wounds inflicted on Morathi at the start of the battle round (by an endless spell, for example), count towards the limit of 3 wounds that can be inflicted on Morathi in the first turn of that round? Can things that heal wounds at the start of the battle round be used to heal wounds on Morathi? A: No to both questions"

~This one is a little illogical but makes sense for GW wanting to nerf Daughters and therefore nerfing Morathi. So the Iron Heart of Khaine ability is only active during the battle round. So therefore we can use Endless Spells to hurt her beyond her 3dmg/turn limit because it's not in the battle round. That said, this update now also states that we can not use Endless Spells to heal her beyond her 0 healing/turn limit even though that it's an Endless Spell and it's between rounds.

[Overread]

Morathi's ruling is a bit odd because they are applying one logic to damage but not to restoring health, it does sound like a bit of a cop-out to make her weaker without saying so. 

The first point has been in the DoK Errata for a while, it just referenced the core rule errata which didn't have that statement in it (so it applied to Daughters but no one else - until now!) Great to see GW finally added it, though surprised they waited till a full update to do so. Of course in the original errata for DoK it only mentioned, by name, the rending attack from Blood Sisters. 

 

@Kimbo This thread might interest you as it compares the Witches to the Sisters of Slaughter:

https://www.tga.community/forums/topic/18324-daughters-of-khaine-witches-and-sisters/

In very simple terms the Witch Aelves can put out a greater total number of attacks, esp if they are within range of a leader. However in practical terms the 2 inch range on the Sisters of Slaughter whip means that they can most often be more reliable in getting more bodies into close combat; furthermore they have a 6 inch pile in range and move.

So whilst Witch Aelves per unit can put out more attacks (on average and within range of a leader); the Sisters of Slaughter have two means to more reliably get more of their bodies into close combat range during combat. Thus giving them the edge in delivering actual hits and wounds, esp on any table with decent amounts of terrain.

 

 

One thing you might casually see is many Sisters being equipped with the buckler and many Witches with duel blades. Originally those were the builds for both models and itsa design many follow through on. Tactically its a trade off for both; the buckler increases survivability for both and is great if they receive a charge and get attacked first as the bucklers will deal mortal wounds on each attack of 6 on the dice. That said the duel blades let you dish out more volume of attacks, so in larger units and when you make the charge and get the first round of attacks they come to the for as superior. 

 

Edited December 18, 2018 by Overread

[Lucentia]

59 minutes ago, Overread said:

Morathi's ruling is a bit odd because they are applying one logic to damage but not to restoring health, it does sound like a bit of a cop-out to make her weaker without saying so.

Morathi can't be healed by any means, regardless of if it's during a battle round or outside of it, so in general terms the FAQ comes to two results from the same logic, but in the case of Morathi specifically it does make sense.

[Kimbo]

2 hours ago, Overread said:

Morathi's ruling is a bit odd because they are applying one logic to damage but not to restoring health, it does sound like a bit of a cop-out to make her weaker without saying so. 

The first point has been in the DoK Errata for a while, it just referenced the core rule errata which didn't have that statement in it (so it applied to Daughters but no one else - until now!) Great to see GW finally added it, though surprised they waited till a full update to do so. Of course in the original errata for DoK it only mentioned, by name, the rending attack from Blood Sisters. 

 

@Kimbo This thread might interest you as it compares the Witches to the Sisters of Slaughter:

https://www.tga.community/forums/topic/18324-daughters-of-khaine-witches-and-sisters/

In very simple terms the Witch Aelves can put out a greater total number of attacks, esp if they are within range of a leader. However in practical terms the 2 inch range on the Sisters of Slaughter whip means that they can most often be more reliable in getting more bodies into close combat; furthermore they have a 6 inch pile in range and move.

So whilst Witch Aelves per unit can put out more attacks (on average and within range of a leader); the Sisters of Slaughter have two means to more reliably get more of their bodies into close combat range during combat. Thus giving them the edge in delivering actual hits and wounds, esp on any table with decent amounts of terrain.

 

 

One thing you might casually see is many Sisters being equipped with the buckler and many Witches with duel blades. Originally those were the builds for both models and itsa design many follow through on. Tactically its a trade off for both; the buckler increases survivability for both and is great if they receive a charge and get attacked first as the bucklers will deal mortal wounds on each attack of 6 on the dice. That said the duel blades let you dish out more volume of attacks, so in larger units and when you make the charge and get the first round of attacks they come to the for as superior. 

 

Thanks yet again! I noticed that you argue quite heavily for the SoS but seeing some of your list here you use 60 witches. Is it just because of "lack of model" or am i missing something? 

 

As it is a big money investment i want to be sure what route to go! I do like the look of SoS better i have to say. 

Is it smart to go for 30 SoS and 30 whitches? 

 

Also, did you have any 1k list tip with the battle boxes + maybe 1-2 boxes of something to fall it up? 

 

Thanks! Love all the help i get. 

[Overread]

Sisters and Witches are very close, but don't overlook the extra attack native to witch aelves when they are close to a leader (and in DoK leaders are close to the troops most of the time). Witches are also a little cheaper in points than Sisters.

 

Both are viable choices though and you honestly can't go wrong with either, their use on the battlefield varies in a more subtle way. That said a unit of 30 each would not be a bad choice and many people use Sisters of Slaughter. As they both come from the very same kit its more a matter of building choice than lack of funds. So by all means go for it - sometimes in this hobby its good to build models you really like, not just build based on theory and lists. 

[Lucentia]

I made this thing a while ago but only just got round to finishing up painting it.

Whilst I don't dislike the default Bloodwrack Medusa sculpt it doesn't exactly scream 'Wizardly Hero' to me, so I made this one instead.  Also handy if I'm running two medusae and one has an artifact or something.  I still think a 40mm base is too small, I like it on a 50mm more, but the style guide says 40, so whatever.

[Tip4Tap]

A friend of mine wants to start DoK and is thinking of taking this army to tournaments. As i have no experience with the army I’d thought I’d ask for some advice.

 

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine

Leaders
Slaughter Queen on Cauldron Of Blood (330)
Hag Queen on Cauldron Of Blood (300)
Hag Queen (60)
Hag Queen (60)

Battleline
30 x Witch Aelves (270)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
30 x Witch Aelves (270)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
30 x Witch Aelves (270)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives

Units
5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)
5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)
5 x Doomfire Warlocks (160)

Battalions
Cauldron Guard (120)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 146
 

what do you guys think?

strengths?

weaknesses?

my friend wants to use this in 5 game tournaments so needs to be an all comers list.

[Manxs]

Hey guys just trying out this list just after xmas wanted to see if you guys had any tips or ideas for improvement 

 

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
- Temple: Draichi Ganeth

Leaders
Slaughter Queen on Cauldron Of Blood (330)
- General
- Trait: Zealous Orator 
- Artefact: The Darksword 
- Prayer: Catechism of Murder
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- Artefact: Shadow Stone 
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Morathi High Oracle of Khaine (480)
- Lore of Shadows: The Withering
Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer: Martyr's Sacrifice

Battleline
30 x Witch Aelves (270)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
10 x Sisters Of Slaughter (120)
- Barbed Whips and Sacrificial Knives
10 x Sisters Of Slaughter (120)
- Barbed Whips and Sacrificial Knives

Units
20 x Khinerai Heartrenders (320)

Battalions
Slaughter Troupe (130)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 100
 

[Lucentia]

20 hours ago, Tip4Tap said:

A friend of mine wants to start DoK and is thinking of taking this army to tournaments. As i have no experience with the army I’d thought I’d ask for some advice.

You would probably want at least one (maybe two) of those witch blocks with shields instead of knives to give you a bit of tactical flexibility.  It's also quite weak in terms of magic, but that's not necessarily a problem, just something to be aware or. 

6 hours ago, Manxs said:

Hey guys just trying out this list just after xmas wanted to see if you guys had any tips or ideas for improvement

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
- Temple: Draichi Ganeth

Leaders
Slaughter Queen on Cauldron Of Blood (330)
- General
- Trait: Zealous Orator 
- Artefact: The Darksword 
- Prayer: Catechism of Murder
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- Artefact: Shadow Stone 
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Morathi High Oracle of Khaine (480)
- Lore of Shadows: The Withering
Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer: Martyr's Sacrifice

Battleline
30 x Witch Aelves (270)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
10 x Sisters Of Slaughter (120)
- Barbed Whips and Sacrificial Knives
10 x Sisters Of Slaughter (120)
- Barbed Whips and Sacrificial Knives

Units
20 x Khinerai Heartrenders (320)

Battalions
Slaughter Troupe (130)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 100
 

You need two Heartrender units for Slaughtertroupe, but I'm assuming that's just a formatting error.  I've been running a similar list myself (albeit at 1500pts without Morathi) and it works well enough.  I don't rate Martyr's Sacrifice that highly (though granted I haven't used it too much) and have been running Sacrament of Blood instead, pretty much just so you can get to re-roll 1s to hit early, which obviously pairs well with the Draichi Ganeth trait and ability to retreat and charge.  I also quite like Mistress of Poisons on the Slaughter Cauldron to turn her into an unexpected damage dealer, but Zealous Orator is good to (and probably better, really.)

 

As an aside, I'm planning on messing around with Lifetakers in the new year, but I don't want to deal with all those fragile Khinerai models, does anyone know of any where I could get appropriately scenery pillars/masonry that I could attach them to instead, preferably something similar to Morathi's pillar?  I'm thinking of just grabbing one of those sets of AoS ruins terrains and carving that up maybe.

[Overread]

20 minutes ago, Lucentia said:

As an aside, I'm planning on messing around with Lifetakers in the new year, but I don't want to deal with all those fragile Khinerai models, does anyone know of any where I could get appropriately scenery pillars/masonry that I could attach them to instead, preferably something similar to Morathi's pillar?  I'm thinking of just grabbing one of those sets of AoS ruins terrains and carving that up maybe.

I've not been seriously looking, but I've also been thinking on adding pillars to mine. Though mine are already built so I'd be ideally looking for something that fits into the base between model and base easily. 

I do agree its a shame GW didn't have them leaping off pillars or around them so that there was a thicker connection point to make them a bit more stable. 

[DantePQ]

I am playing without Morathi recently and list is working really fine

[Kaleun]

@DantePQ

hey Dante, I am interested what are your actual list-pool out of the Daughters of Khaine roster?

Still doing good with 'em?

[DantePQ]

@Kaleun yep I'm doing very fine with - actually only games I've lost out of last 15+ were 3 games against Nagash , it's bad match up but also I was very unlucky in two of them (once I lost all 3 crucial rolls, and once I failed to cast Mirrorpool on 5+) and competitive wise it's really bad match-up so I had to drop my 2x20 Blood Sisters build and narrowed my lists to 2 army builds 

1) is pretty standard Morathi, Slaughter Queen, Slaughter Troupe build 

2) is a build I'm playing with right now - Slaughter Queen, Bloodwrack Shrine, 2xHag Queen, 2x10 SoS, 30 Witches, 20 Blood Sisters, 2x5 Heartrenders, Slaughter Troupe , I've played like only 5 games with it as I'm playtesting Deepkins as well and it's doing really, really fine - a lot of bodies, SoS are great as screens, great mobility. 

[Mark Williams]

I got the Daughters of Khaine starter box for Christmas, and I'm trying to set up a plan for a 1000 point army with it. Since you have to have a Medusa as your general in order to get 2 troops, this what I came up with.

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
- Temple: Khailebron
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Bloodwrack Shrine (220)
- General
- Trait: Mistress of Illusion 
- Artefact: Shade Claw 
- Lore of Shadows: Steed of Shadows
Slaughter Queen (100)
- Prayer: Catechism of Murder
Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer: Martyr's Sacrifice

Battleline
10 x Sisters Of Slaughter (120)
- Barbed Whips and Blade Bucklers
5 x Blood Stalkers (160)

Units
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)
5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)

Behemoths
Avatar of Khaine (180)

Total: 1000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 20
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 62

 

[MADlikes]

22 minutes ago, Mark Williams said:

I got the Daughters of Khaine starter box for Christmas, and I'm trying to set up a plan for a 1000 point army with it. Since you have to have a Medusa as your general in order to get 2 troops, this what I came up with.

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
- Temple: Khailebron
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Bloodwrack Shrine (220)
- General
- Trait: Mistress of Illusion 
- Artefact: Shade Claw 
- Lore of Shadows: Steed of Shadows
Slaughter Queen (100)
- Prayer: Catechism of Murder
Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer: Martyr's Sacrifice

Battleline
10 x Sisters Of Slaughter (120)
- Barbed Whips and Blade Bucklers
5 x Blood Stalkers (160)

Units
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)
5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)

Behemoths
Avatar of Khaine (180)

Total: 1000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 20
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 62

 

Unfortunately the blood Stalkers aren’t battleline bud. 

[Mark Williams]

4 minutes ago, MADlikes said:

Unfortunately the blood Stalkers aren’t battleline bud. 

Well shoot...

[Kaleun]

11 hours ago, DantePQ said:

@Kaleun yep I'm doing very fine with - actually only games I've lost out of last 15+ were 3 games against Nagash , it's bad match up but also I was very unlucky in two of them (once I lost all 3 crucial rolls, and once I failed to cast Mirrorpool on 5+) and competitive wise it's really bad match-up so I had to drop my 2x20 Blood Sisters build and narrowed my lists to 2 army builds 

1) is pretty standard Morathi, Slaughter Queen, Slaughter Troupe build 

2) is a build I'm playing with right now - Slaughter Queen, Bloodwrack Shrine, 2xHag Queen, 2x10 SoS, 30 Witches, 20 Blood Sisters, 2x5 Heartrenders, Slaughter Troupe , I've played like only 5 games with it as I'm playtesting Deepkins as well and it's doing really, really fine - a lot of bodies, SoS are great as screens, great mobility. 

Draichi Ganeth I suppose?

both lists look very well built for the competitive scene. I also see Nagash as a tough one for our Daughters.

Ishlaen Guard or Morrsarr Guard? Both of those neat cav deepkin might be a welcome addition to the already fast "Daughters o' good old Khaine".

 

[DantePQ]

Nope, those are HaggNarr I've played with Draichi Ganeth quite a lot but those lists were quite different. 

In HaggNarr maybe you could use Morssar but Ishlaen arent that needed with 5++ units. 

[Souleater]

With our SC! box seemingly AWOL do you think we will see a replacement sometime soon?

Previously we have seen some battleforces followed by an SC! box that fits quite nicely with it.

 

With that in mind what do folks think we might see in a potential new SC?

 

Also, Ayzr let's me give an allied Assassin a realm artefact. Is that a bug?

Edited December 24, 2018 by Souleater

[Lucentia]

Strictly speaking DoK never had a SC box, the blood coven box was released as something you could use as allies and was set at a different price point to other SC sets, though obviously it was basically the same thing.  The tough part is that the only heroes available for a SC are part of the Cauldron kit, and that plus any other single kit pushes the price past almost all the other SC sets.

Allied heroes can't take artefacts as far as I'm aware, so that should be a bug.

[Souleater]

Yeah, the heroes seems to be a sticking point. There have been no indications of a separate clampack hero. 

For the actual troops I would guess at some Witch Aelves/SOS and a box of Melusai.

Wild speculation alert: we might see a new hero option released alongside a potential WH Underworlds DoK warband. But that would be a long way off, even if it does happen.

[Lucentia]

Mmm, all the factions for this seasons Underworlds are known, so it would have to be in an eventual season three, presumably ~Autumn time next year?  The Underworlds teams are all single sprues with all the models on though (If I remember correctly) so that would be no good for a clampack hero, a new Warhammer Quest or Wrath and Rapture style boxed game could provide single hero sculpts at some point though.

[Yoshiya]

28 minutes ago, Lucentia said:

Mmm, all the factions for this seasons Underworlds are known, so it would have to be in an eventual season three, presumably ~Autumn time next year?  The Underworlds teams are all single sprues with all the models on though (If I remember correctly) so that would be no good for a clampack hero, a new Warhammer Quest or Wrath and Rapture style boxed game could provide single hero sculpts at some point though.

Underworlds at most will provide a unique sculpt for a something we already have. So far only one warband has had something genuinely new (Nighthaunt) though the Slyvaneth and Troll one will provide new stuff to based on what we know.

You are also correct in saying they are part of the same single sprue meaning it will be impossible to easily separate the hero (which I doubt they will do as they are all supposed to be named characters).

I think unfortunately for now DoK will not have any new characters added for a while. None of the older armies have had any second waves added yet and some of them are probably more deserving at this point. Would be nice to pick up things without buying another shrine I may or may not need though...

[Lucentia]

I could see there potentially being a second wave with some endless spells at some point, which could come with a clampack hero I suppose, but I don't imagine anything's on the cards soon, for sure.

[InSaint]

I doubt DoK will ever get have any Set Collecting set beyond the Blood Coven and Battleforce.

They are a niche fraction with strong unique selling points that does not need an affordable Foot-in-the-Door sales technique starter set.  I  am sure  all of us here who plays DoK started this army not just simply because we want "another AOS army". We started this army because of certain compelling reasons that trumps the price tag.  Sure the army is crazy expensive but players who want it will still buy into it.

Deep down I am quite happy as well, otherwise we just become another one of the Golden Jesus or Ghost-in-the-Shell army... 🙄

Also just look at the Sci-fi equivalent all female army, Sisters of Battles... the hype is beyond belief. Just a sneak peak a some obscure part of the upcoming SoB sculpt is enough to give nearly the entire warhammer community a literal hard-on. I think if they are priced the same as DoK, people will still buy. 🤣