AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

[Overread]

So wondering what direct you guys might take my collection thus far, partly just talking out loud about ideas and planning what to purchase and work toward next:

Currently I've got

1 Blood Cauldron (slaughter/hag queen option)
1 Shrine
2 Hag Queen
2 Slaughter Queen
2 Bloodwrack Medusa
2 Avatar

30 Witch Elves with Bucklers and full command
30 Witch Elves with duel daggers and full command

10 Khinerai Heartrenders
10 Khinerai Lifetakers
10 Blood Stalkers

15 Doomfire Warlocks
Allies:

6 Gryph Hounds (Stormcast Eternals) 
1 Supreme Sorceress (Darkling Covens)
2 Assassins (Shadowblades)
1 Hydra

My thoughts:

1) Getting another 30 Witch Aelves and then arming them either with bucklers or duel blades. Visually duel blades looks the best; though functionally bucklers are more durable and long lasting whilst blades require getting the first round of attacks in to really give their best. 
The downside to this is its expensive; a lot of money for those 3 boxes of witches. 

2) The Battleforce Boxed set. About the same price as the above and whilst it should last around a long while it might be one of those things better to "grab before its gone" deals. It's unfocused though so gives me a little bit of everything rather than any one thing in bulk. I can't say no to more command and avatar options in general; whilst another 10 khinari is a solid block to put to use. Witches and Melusai are not in a great number, but would could certainly be put toward future expansion plans.

3) Several boxes of Melusai. Starts me down the road toward being able to take a snake-heavy army; however I sort of feel like whilst this would be a great direction to go, considering how far I've come in terms of Witches it might be better and more sensible to focus on one then the other rather than walk between the two. 

4) More allies - well who doesn't need more gryph hounds! But otherwise more allies might not be required, though I've heard people like eels these days!

5) Other ideas! ?

Edited December 2, 2018 by Overread

[Skavenblight]

Hay guys got a few copies of the new battle force on there way what do people think of this list

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar

Leaders
Hag Queen on Cauldron Of Blood (300)
- General
Hag Queen (60)
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
Slaughter Queen (100)

Battleline
30 x Witch Aelves (270)
- Sacrificial Knives and Blade Bucklers
10 x Witch Aelves (100)
- Sacrificial Knives and Blade Bucklers
30 x Witch Aelves (270)
- Sacrificial Knives and Blade Bucklers

Units
20 x Blood Sisters (480)
5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)
5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)

Battalions
Cauldron Guard (120)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 149

[Katz]

8 hours ago, Overread said:

So wondering what direct you guys might take my collection thus far, partly just talking out loud about ideas and planning what to purchase and work toward next:

Currently I've got

1 Blood Cauldron (slaughter/hag queen option)
1 Shrine
2 Hag Queen
2 Slaughter Queen
2 Bloodwrack Medusa
2 Avatar

30 Witch Elves with Bucklers and full command
30 Witch Elves with duel daggers and full command

10 Khinerai Heartrenders
10 Khinerai Lifetakers
10 Blood Stalkers

15 Doomfire Warlocks
Allies:

6 Gryph Hounds (Stormcast Eternals) 
1 Supreme Sorceress (Darkling Covens)
2 Assassins (Shadowblades)
1 Hydra

My thoughts:

1) Getting another 30 Witch Aelves and then arming them either with bucklers or duel blades. Visually duel blades looks the best; though functionally bucklers are more durable and long lasting whilst blades require getting the first round of attacks in to really give their best. 
The downside to this is its expensive; a lot of money for those 3 boxes of witches. 

2) The Battleforce Boxed set. About the same price as the above and whilst it should last around a long while it might be one of those things better to "grab before its gone" deals. It's unfocused though so gives me a little bit of everything rather than any one thing in bulk. I can't say no to more command and avatar options in general; whilst another 10 khinari is a solid block to put to use. Witches and Melusai are not in a great number, but would could certainly be put toward future expansion plans.

3) Several boxes of Melusai. Starts me down the road toward being able to take a snake-heavy army; however I sort of feel like whilst this would be a great direction to go, considering how far I've come in terms of Witches it might be better and more sensible to focus on one then the other rather than walk between the two. 

4) More allies - well who doesn't need more gryph hounds! But otherwise more allies might not be required, though I've heard people like eels these days!

5) Other ideas! ?

So to return the favor.

So more aelves seems to be somewhat given in a current state to even be able to do 3 blobs for battlelines, but you probably would want to expand your leadership with that so you can have a hag per blob to make sure they are all brewed up and get a prayer.
But if you are going with more of both of these you might just as well go battleforce to reinforce all parts of your army imo.

it seems like a larger undertaking to switch to snake lady army completely and seems like a larger economic undertaking than any other option.

For allies it is a question of, do you want to make the punchy army more punchy or do you want to add in options to make up for the lack of range?
As I myself is currently (until I get my new ladies) is  a stormcast player I see them having access to several options of ranged combat that could be of interest.
Ex a lord ordinator and two ballistas would be 340 points for what could be a quite devastating amount of firepower, or the vanguard raptors with hurricane crossbows that is doing a lot of attacks but also have a bubble of -1 to charge rolls that might help with board control.

Otherwise there is the what seems to be almost standard tank idoneth eels that I see a lot of lists running with that seems to be doing a good job

I do have one other idea: Mortahi

[markymarkka]

If I take the Mistress of Poisons command trait on a Slaughter Queen on a Cauldron of Blood, does it also buff Avatar of Khaines sword and Witch Aelves' sacrificial knives' damage by 1? 

Combined with Mindrazor, Orgy of Slaughter and Catechism of Murder 🤣

[Katz]

9 hours ago, markymarkka said:

If I take the Mistress of Poisons command trait on a Slaughter Queen on a Cauldron of Blood, does it also buff Avatar of Khaines sword and Witch Aelves' sacrificial knives' damage by 1? 

Combined with Mindrazor, Orgy of Slaughter and Catechism of Murder 🤣

Nope, you only buff the hero and not the mount. the rule stating this is on page 48 under the mount headline

[markymarkka]

1 hour ago, Katz said:

Nope, you only buff the hero and not the mount. the rule stating this is on page 48 under the mount headline

Yeah that's what I thought. Though Mindrazor would buff it's damage on all weapons if the bravery condition is met? 

[Katz]

3 minutes ago, markymarkka said:

Yeah that's what I thought. Though Mindrazor would buff it's damage on all weapons if the bravery condition is met? 

Aye, Mindrazor is a spell that affects the entire "unit" while the artifacts affect the hero and not the mount

[quina2525]

14 hours ago, Katz said:

Aye, Mindrazor is a spell that affects the entire "unit" while the artifacts affect the hero and not the mount

It's not an artifact, it's a command trait..? Not sure if that's on the rulebook or not for mounts. Don't have a rulebook at hand. 

 

Edit - Doesn't work with mounts. Just checked. 

Edited December 3, 2018 by quina2525

[Gnoblar G]

Hello everyone!  Any reality to the "rumors" that HAGG NAR will be getting nurfed?  What I have heard is that the 7" 5+ Fanatical Faith save will be altered to "wholly within" 14" of the general?  Thanks in advance....

[Olincay]

2 hours ago, Gnoblar G said:

Hello everyone!  Any reality to the "rumors" that HAGG NAR will be getting nurfed?  What I have heard is that the 7" 5+ Fanatical Faith save will be altered to "wholly within" 14" of the general?  Thanks in advance....

What is your source for hearing this? Personally i think i could deal with that change, still a 28 inch bubble. 

[DJMoose]

3 hours ago, Gnoblar G said:

Hello everyone!  Any reality to the "rumors" that HAGG NAR will be getting nurfed?  What I have heard is that the 7" 5+ Fanatical Faith save will be altered to "wholly within" 14" of the general?  Thanks in advance...

At least right now they are still rumors. And probably will still be rumors until we get a FAQ or GHB 2019. I think it's pure speculation at this point.

I think we all know that Gnoblars are what really need a FAQ. I mean, that Sharp Stuff they throw is just too powerful. 😁

[zedatkinszed]

On 12/4/2018 at 12:51 AM, Gnoblar G said:

Hello everyone!  Any reality to the "rumors" that HAGG NAR will be getting nurfed?  What I have heard is that the 7" 5+ Fanatical Faith save will be altered to "wholly within" 14" of the general?  Thanks in advance....

On 12/4/2018 at 4:35 AM, DJMoose said:

At least right now they are still rumors. And probably will still be rumors until we get a FAQ or GHB 2019. I think it's pure speculation at this point.

1

This.

But in fairness, many of us here on this site have repeated this "idea" so much that I understand why people think its a certainty. It isn't. Nothing is. I personally think any DoK changes will be in the GHB which is months away.

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by zedatkinszed

[InSaint]

Has anyone had any luck with Mirror Dance, situational or can an actual strategy be built around it? Cast value 4 with Shadow Stone can be pretty reliable.

[Lucentia]

It's an interesting spell, and there are certainly applications for it, but for me the restriction that neither of the swapped Heroes can be within 6" of any other units is too finicky to make practical use of unless you're specifically building a tactic around Mirror Dance.  I'd want to be able to use it to Dance  Hag Queens further up the field to buff unsupported unit, or pull vulnerable Heroes out of danger, but you can't really do that because of the range limitations (and that's only considering having to be 6" away from your own units, as soon as enemy units get involved it's a whole other mess!)  Now, you could use it in conjunction with the Khailebon teleport to Mirror swap a buffed monster Morathi and let her swoop right into the enemy somewhere, sure (though you can't give her Witchbrew as a part of this) and if the Hero unit is a Wizard you can even try something around The Withering or other debuffs too, but it's quite a lot of investment in a strategy with a lot of fail states!

That said I am saying this without much  battlefield experience with the spell, it may very well be more useful than I give it credit for!

[Olincay]

Thought i'd share some hobby progress on the stabby murder elves. 

[Overread]

Very bloody! Did you try getting some of the blood to streak up the snake body to blend base and model together a little? 

I also like the little bright scales on the back of the snake, and a very clean and good underbelly - out of interest what did you use for the snake belly?

[Kimbo]

Hi everyone! 

Just finished my Sylvaneth army and I am really tempted to start DoK. I have some questions as im a skrub when it comes to this army, all help is appriciated! 

 

- What should i buy to get the units for solid 1k list?

- What is the overall feeling and playstyle of this army? 

- how do they preform on a competitive level? Are they a one tactic/one trick pony army? 

Thanks! 

[Overread]

@Kimbo 

1) DoK are currently ranking quite high in the competitive scene. There's even some variety of builds that work; from taking an army that's mostly all snake with spears to taking 90 or so witch aelves with support. So they are on the stronger end of the curve, then again most faction are doing decently well with a new battletome. Older battletomes are suffering a bit and no battletome are heavily under represented. 

2) DoK are a heavy close combat focused army. The few ranged units that we do have are also jointly good in close combat and are closer to skirmishers rather than a dedicated ranged unit. There's also a fair bit of unit synergy going on in terms of support from the leaders such as hag queens and the mighty Blood Cauldrons. 
That said whilst there are some auras and abilities that can boost defensive prowess, DoK are mostly a Glass Cannon type army. Hits hard and fast ,but can be fragile - esp if your opponent learns to snipe and take out the leaders to cut down on the support. For this reason speed is important as is positioning so that you get the charge and the most first attacks .

3) Honestly there aren't really any bad choices in the range of models and the "poor" choices we do have are still decent and often only one half of a duel kit. 

Right now I'd say the Christmas Battleforce is the best starting point. You get a nice discount and a slot block of units:

• The Cauldron is a must have kit as it gives you all the leaders for the army (barring Morathi). Both on the cauldron and on bases these leaders are great support. You also get an avatar which is a powerful, if fickle and careful to use unit to use on its own or on the cauldron. Magnets are your friend with this kit (magnetize the avatar even if you won't use it on its own as it makes the cauldron a lot smaller and easier to pack)
• Witch Aelves are the battleline for the standard army and a mainstay troop choice (the other being Blood Sisters (spear armed snakes), but that only happens if you take a Bloodwrack Medusa as your general). The other option from the witches kit, sisters of slaughter, are a solid elite choice - very similar to Witch Aelves, but with a whip that gives them extra reach in combat.
• Khinari are great in either form, though the ranged (spear) version is often teh better for hit and retreat tactics as it hasn't got to risk getting into close combat. Whilst they are fragile they can strike from anywhere on the table. An ideal force to take either to bolster and attack flanks/rears of engaged enemies to aid your other warriors; to take or contest objectives; to attack archers, siege engines or loan mages/heroes. Basically they are very fragile, but hit hard and have some neat tricks to escaping fights so they are very good shock troop
• Melusai are tough in their spear holding form, a nasty fast close combat unit. Their ranged option isn't "as" good, but they are still decent fighters and no slouches. 

And that's the entire range save for the Doomfire Warlocks. In fact its such a good deal for the army as a whole I'd say two or even three of the Battleforces would be a solid foundation. You get some significant savings over buying things on their own and you get a solid core of units, the only thing it would really lack is that you'd end up without as many witch aelves as is ideal for a general army. However with the savings you make you can easily then put that money into witch aelves. 

[syph0n]

I know it runs against the current trends, but has anyone tried a more magic heavy list?

I don't really mind if I win a lot, because I buy based on what looks cool to me, but I'm going down the new model route with Melusai battleline, Bloodwrack Shrine etc and Khinerai. 

I've got 10 Melusai (plus an additional 5 unbuilt), 10 Khinerai (unbuilt, Heartrenders the better build?), 10 Doomfires, 2x Hags, 1x Slaughter Queen, 1x Bloodwrack Shrine (magnetized).  I want to use the Geminids and Spellportal, thematically. 

However, with the remaining battleforce models I could do another Shrine, Witches/Sisters (though I might use the Sisters as pirate ladies for my mixed Order army). 

Ideally the list is something like:

• Bloodwrack Shrine (General)
• Hag Queen
• Hag Queen
• Morathi
• 3x5 Blood Sisters
• 2x5 Heartrenders
• 10xDoomfires
• Geminds
• Spellportal

I did include the Slaughter Queen to support the unit of Melusai, and also an Assassin for that proper Khainite vibe, but maybe that 180 points would be better served to bolster a unit of Melusai upto 10? Does the Avatar have a place? Do I stick to my guns with an Assassin and have him dropped from the sky from just one unit of Heartrenders?

I did do a double shrine/no Morathi list but I can't have a DoK army and not have Morathi! Especially as I've now got 4x2000 point armies on the go. 

My thinking is to sell the 2nd Shrine, buy Morathi and 5 more snakes? Thoughts? 

EDIT: Something like this -

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
Mortal Realm: Ulgu
Bloodwrack Shrine (220)
- General
Morathi High Oracle of Khaine (480)
Hag Queen (60)
Hag Queen (60)
Assassin (80)
10 x Blood Sisters (280)
5 x Blood Sisters (140)
5 x Blood Sisters (140)
10 x Doomfire Warlocks (320)
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)
Umbral Spellportal (60)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

Total: 1960 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 99
 

 

Edited December 17, 2018 by syph0n

[MADlikes]

26 minutes ago, syph0n said:

I know it runs against the current trends, but has anyone tried a more magic heavy list?

I don't really mind if I win a lot, because I buy based on what looks cool to me, but I'm going down the new model route with Melusai battleline, Bloodwrack Shrine etc and Khinerai. 

I've got 10 Melusai (plus an additional 5 unbuilt), 10 Khinerai (unbuilt, Heartrenders the better build?), 10 Doomfires, 2x Hags, 1x Slaughter Queen, 1x Bloodwrack Shrine (magnetized).  I want to use the Geminids and Spellportal, thematically. 

However, with the remaining battleforce models I could do another Shrine, Witches/Sisters (though I might use the Sisters as pirate ladies for my mixed Order army). 

Ideally the list is something like:

• Bloodwrack Shrine (General)
• Hag Queen
• Hag Queen
• Morathi
• 3x5 Blood Sisters
• 2x5 Heartrenders
• 10xDoomfires
• Geminds
• Spellportal

I did include the Slaughter Queen to support the unit of Melusai, and also an Assassin for that proper Khainite vibe, but maybe that 180 points would be better served to bolster a unit of Melusai upto 10? Does the Avatar have a place? Do I stick to my guns with an Assassin and have him dropped from the sky from just one unit of Heartrenders?

I did do a double shrine/no Morathi list but I can't have a DoK army and not have Morathi! Especially as I've now got 4x2000 point armies on the go. 

My thinking is to sell the 2nd Shrine, buy Morathi and 5 more snakes? Thoughts? 

EDIT: Something like this -

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
Mortal Realm: Ulgu
Bloodwrack Shrine (220)
- General
Morathi High Oracle of Khaine (480)
Hag Queen (60)
Hag Queen (60)
Assassin (80)
10 x Blood Sisters (280)
5 x Blood Sisters (140)
5 x Blood Sisters (140)
10 x Doomfire Warlocks (320)
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)
Umbral Spellportal (60)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

Total: 1960 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 99
 

 

Whilst running a magic heavy list may seem fun you will become very frustrated against a Nagash list, which people often use as he will completely shut the magic phase down 

[syph0n]

13 minutes ago, MADlikes said:

Whilst running a magic heavy list may seem fun you will become very frustrated against a Nagash list, which people often use as he will completely shut the magic phase down 

Yeah that's very true. I do wonder if the snakes and even Morathi however have the fighting power to have a bit of a scrap too? I'd also use the Doomfires and Heartrenders to pinch objectives due to their speed and try and keep them to limited fights?

Other potential is to add another Medusa rather than boost the snakes to a 10/5/5 for a bit more magic but might benefit more from the additional snake attacks? 

[MADlikes]

1 hour ago, syph0n said:

Yeah that's very true. I do wonder if the snakes and even Morathi however have the fighting power to have a bit of a scrap too? I'd also use the Doomfires and Heartrenders to pinch objectives due to their speed and try and keep them to limited fights?

Other potential is to add another Medusa rather than boost the snakes to a 10/5/5 for a bit more magic but might benefit more from the additional snake attacks? 

Yeah between Morathi and the snakes they hit like a truck especially once you start buffing the snakes. I run 20/5/5 of snakes and they seem to do pretty well. I had the GavBomb hit me yesterday morning and I managed to kill 20 sequitors and 5 evocators whilst losing 5 stalkers and 8 sisters leaving the 20 untouched. 

[syph0n]

9 minutes ago, MADlikes said:

Yeah between Morathi and the snakes they hit like a truck especially once you start buffing the snakes. I run 20/5/5 of snakes and they seem to do pretty well. I had the GavBomb hit me yesterday morning and I managed to kill 20 sequitors and 5 evocators whilst losing 5 stalkers and 8 sisters leaving the 20 untouched. 

Sounds good. I've got to try it and see. What temple did you run? 

[MADlikes]

Just now, syph0n said:

Sounds good. I've got to try it and see. What temple did you run? 

I ran Hag Narr with the Temple Nest battalion. 

[Kimbo]

On 12/17/2018 at 2:12 AM, Overread said:

@Kimbo 

1) DoK are currently ranking quite high in the competitive scene. There's even some variety of builds that work; from taking an army that's mostly all snake with spears to taking 90 or so witch aelves with support. So they are on the stronger end of the curve, then again most faction are doing decently well with a new battletome. Older battletomes are suffering a bit and no battletome are heavily under represented. 

2) DoK are a heavy close combat focused army. The few ranged units that we do have are also jointly good in close combat and are closer to skirmishers rather than a dedicated ranged unit. There's also a fair bit of unit synergy going on in terms of support from the leaders such as hag queens and the mighty Blood Cauldrons. 
That said whilst there are some auras and abilities that can boost defensive prowess, DoK are mostly a Glass Cannon type army. Hits hard and fast ,but can be fragile - esp if your opponent learns to snipe and take out the leaders to cut down on the support. For this reason speed is important as is positioning so that you get the charge and the most first attacks .

3) Honestly there aren't really any bad choices in the range of models and the "poor" choices we do have are still decent and often only one half of a duel kit. 

Right now I'd say the Christmas Battleforce is the best starting point. You get a nice discount and a slot block of units:

• The Cauldron is a must have kit as it gives you all the leaders for the army (barring Morathi). Both on the cauldron and on bases these leaders are great support. You also get an avatar which is a powerful, if fickle and careful to use unit to use on its own or on the cauldron. Magnets are your friend with this kit (magnetize the avatar even if you won't use it on its own as it makes the cauldron a lot smaller and easier to pack)
• Witch Aelves are the battleline for the standard army and a mainstay troop choice (the other being Blood Sisters (spear armed snakes), but that only happens if you take a Bloodwrack Medusa as your general). The other option from the witches kit, sisters of slaughter, are a solid elite choice - very similar to Witch Aelves, but with a whip that gives them extra reach in combat.
• Khinari are great in either form, though the ranged (spear) version is often teh better for hit and retreat tactics as it hasn't got to risk getting into close combat. Whilst they are fragile they can strike from anywhere on the table. An ideal force to take either to bolster and attack flanks/rears of engaged enemies to aid your other warriors; to take or contest objectives; to attack archers, siege engines or loan mages/heroes. Basically they are very fragile, but hit hard and have some neat tricks to escaping fights so they are very good shock troop
• Melusai are tough in their spear holding form, a nasty fast close combat unit. Their ranged option isn't "as" good, but they are still decent fighters and no slouches. 

And that's the entire range save for the Doomfire Warlocks. In fact its such a good deal for the army as a whole I'd say two or even three of the Battleforces would be a solid foundation. You get some significant savings over buying things on their own and you get a solid core of units, the only thing it would really lack is that you'd end up without as many witch aelves as is ideal for a general army. However with the savings you make you can easily then put that money into witch aelves. 

Thank you! Really helpful. In Sigmar i like to start with a 1k list and build from there. Have you played (or anyone else for that matter) them at 1k? If so, any tip of a good list with 2x battleforces? 

It does not need to have just the boxes but it would be sweet if its possible! 

 

Regarding Battleline.  Which one from the whitch kit is best? Why would i go SoS over whitch elves? Or vise versa

 

Thank you so much for the help! 

Edited December 18, 2018 by Kimbo