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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

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1 hour ago, Olincay said:

Anyone else feeling abit anxious with the incoming nerf bat? 

I really hope they don't over react and make this army jump up 400 points. 

What are you talking about?

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18 minutes ago, Mark Williams said:

What are you talking about?

DoK are really strong at the moment. Espacilly large units of Witch Aelfs supported by Hag Queens. 

I think its most likely Hag Queens will go up at least 20 points and Witch Aelfs will lose their horde point reduction. 

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@Belmail
Nothing confirmed, but over the past few weeks they've taken out half a dozen gt's with strong showings in top the 10's. 
So undoubtably somethings going to change. 

Edited by Olincay

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I wonder if they might try something else. As the core of the issue appears to be lots of witches and hag queens, they'd have to increase the points by a lot to shut that down at 2K points; by which point all they are doing is not actually dealing with the power core of the army, just making it so that players who choose that can take less other options - which makes hte army even more focused and boring to play/play against. 

I'd rather they took a step in another direction and considered other aspects to change. For example they could make it a unit with a prayer buff cannot receive a spell buff at the same time; reduce the aura bonus for getting extra attack, heck they could even make it a 4+ to hit for witches. Those kind of changes might feel harsher, but they address the actual power point of the models if they are seriously broken against other units. Of course points might be a softer means to changing things which might be a better approach toward taking smaller steps to tweak the system rather than larger changes which can result in big shifts. 

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2 minutes ago, Overread said:

I wonder if they might try something else. As the core of the issue appears to be lots of witches and hag queens, they'd have to increase the points by a lot to shut that down at 2K points; by which point all they are doing is not actually dealing with the power core of the army, just making it so that players who choose that can take less other options - which makes hte army even more focused and boring to play/play against. 

I'd rather they took a step in another direction and considered other aspects to change. For example they could make it a unit with a prayer buff cannot receive a spell buff at the same time; reduce the aura bonus for getting extra attack, heck they could even make it a 4+ to hit for witches. Those kind of changes might feel harsher, but they address the actual power point of the models if they are seriously broken against other units. Of course points might be a softer means to changing things which might be a better approach toward taking smaller steps to tweak the system rather than larger changes which can result in big shifts. 

I was thinking of making the hag queens sippy cup a once per game ability. Leave the points as they are.
Might not be a real popular move as it's so powerful, but by turn 4 it's almost irrelevant anyway. 

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Aye that's another good idea - keeps the alpha strike aspect, keeps it as support; but means that you can't abuse it as often. 

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That depends; GW could stick to the Generals Handbook releases for changes like that; so we'd see it next year. That wouldn't be totally daft since we can hope/expect/wish that 2019 will be pretty heavy on AoS Battletome releases (if nothing else, though I note that GW isn't making the same promises and noise that they were about releasing 40K codex). Otherwise if they think its a bigger issue it might appear at any time. 

Personally I would hope that its an adjustment that won't break the functionality of such lists, just weakens them down to fit better into the standard performance of other armies. It's often a good thing to wait a bit on these because sometimes an army appears very powerful, but its more a result of other players not learning how to deal with it rather than the army itself being broken (I'm not arguing for nor against this line of thinking in relation to DoK, just stating it as a general point).

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21 minutes ago, Overread said:

That depends; GW could stick to the Generals Handbook releases for changes like that; so we'd see it next year. That wouldn't be totally daft since we can hope/expect/wish that 2019 will be pretty heavy on AoS Battletome releases (if nothing else, though I note that GW isn't making the same promises and noise that they were about releasing 40K codex). Otherwise if they think its a bigger issue it might appear at any time. 

Personally I would hope that its an adjustment that won't break the functionality of such lists, just weakens them down to fit better into the standard performance of other armies. It's often a good thing to wait a bit on these because sometimes an army appears very powerful, but its more a result of other players not learning how to deal with it rather than the army itself being broken (I'm not arguing for nor against this line of thinking in relation to DoK, just stating it as a general point).

Also Power creep of new armies will likely push DOK down a peg or two, We're still to see how BOC will do once lists settle.
Not including  the rumoured Slaanesh and Moonclans armies dropping. 
 

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Indeed, it might not be that DoK are overpowered, but that other factions are underpowered. So a fix could be to bump up others.

 

Personally I just hope that GW fixes it without invalidating the army choices. It's fantastic that Daughters can vary its army composition in several ways and be viable on the tabletop; something we want to keep within that army and something we want mirrored in others.

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Hi guys!

 

I've had a break with my Daughters army, mainly because I originally designed it to have only three different kinds of units: Witches, Blood Sisters and Blood Stalkers (Temple Nest list).

However, building and painting the same two boxes seemed boring as hell. So I came up with this list for semi-competitive occasions (I don't do tournaments, but my friends also like to run competent lists):

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine - Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Temple: Khailebron


LEADERS

Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- General
- Command Trait : Mistress of Illusion
- Lore of Shadows : Mindrazor


Morathi High Oracle of Khaine (480)
- Lore of Shadows : Pit of Shades


Hag Queen (60)
- Artefact : Iron Circlet
- Prayer : Sacrament of Blood


UNITS
20 x Blood Sisters (480)


30 x Witch Aelves (270)
-Pairs of Sacrificial Knives


10 x Sisters Of Slaughter (120)
-Barbed Whips and Blade Bucklers


5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)


10 x Doomfire Warlocks (320)
- Lore of Shadows : The Withering


TOTAL: 1950/2000

EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1

WOUNDS: 122


LEADERS: 3/6

BATTLELINES: 3


ARTEFACTS: 1/1

 

Alteration to this list would be to swap Morathi for a Cauldron and 10 more Sisters of Slaughter. Maybe drop 5 warlocks for more Heartrenders and the Slaughter Troupe Battalion for that extra CP and artefact, but that's not gonna be my main goal, as it feels a bit too competitive.  My main question is: would this list be totally curb stomped by most lists of other factions?  Especially Stormcast and Nighthaunt are my main concern (and most common enemies).

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I had my first DoK game last night (finally)!

My army played the mission with the stepped deployment areas, I forget it's name, against one of my regular opponent's Idoneth Deepkin. It was brand new armies for both of us so mistakes were made, but it was an exceptionally close and fun game! My list was a rough match up for him. I didn't have many models which were good targets for his Thralls and I was running Khalibron Temple, so his 30 odd Reavers across the army had trouble doing much to my forces. 

He had: Eidolon of Magic (or whatever the caster one is called), 2 or 3 soulscryers, 3x 10 Namarti Reavers, 3x 10 Namarti Thralls, 2x 10 Gladeguard allies (I think - Aelves with shields and spears).

I had: Medusa (Mindrazor, Mistress of Illusion, Shadow Stone), Medusa (Steed of Shadows), Hag (Catechism of Murder, Iron Circlet), Hag (Blessing of Khaine), Assassin as an ally. 10 Blood Sisters, 2x 5 Blood Sisters, 10 Khinerai Lifetakers, 5 Khinerai Lifetakers, 10 Khinerai Heartrenders, 5 Khinerai Heartrenders, 2x 5 Doomfire Warlocks, Shadow Patrol, Malevolent Maelstrom.

All the teleporting I had going on was giving the Idoneth fits as I was able to get on objectives fast and dictate combats. I made some errors with placement of support characters so missed out on some buffs in key areas. I did an assassination run on the Eidolon which got him down to 2 wounds, but I couldn't seal the deal. That cost me the game in the end I think. He pushed hard on two objectives that I held, was able to tie up the game in the 3rd turn. By the 5th there was very little on the board, and he was able to squeak out one more point with the Eidolon jumping on my rear objective. Super close, fun, tactical game! 

I love this list. I may tweak the magic artifacts a little, but I think I could play it as is for quite a while and get a lot of mileage out of it. 

 

 

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Hey guys. New to DoK

 

can someone explain why hag queen over slaughter queen? The slaughter queen can unbind, can make unit pile in twice and another in hero phase with command ability. Sure it’s 40 points more. Is that main reason?

 

also as a new player wanting competitive army with morathi, what am I looking at?

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17 minutes ago, CanHammer-darren said:

Hey guys. New to DoK

 

can someone explain why hag queen over slaughter queen? The slaughter queen can unbind, can make unit pile in twice and another in hero phase with command ability. Sure it’s 40 points more. Is that main reason?

 

also as a new player wanting competitive army with morathi, what am I looking at?

Slaughter as general for the command ability and killing potential. Hag queen for the witch brew.

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36 minutes ago, CanHammer-darren said:

Hey guys. New to DoK

 

can someone explain why hag queen over slaughter queen? The slaughter queen can unbind, can make unit pile in twice and another in hero phase with command ability. Sure it’s 40 points more. Is that main reason?

 

also as a new player wanting competitive army with morathi, what am I looking at?

Pretty much just the Witchbrew, it is a very potent ability for 60 points and one of the few To Wound buffs in the book, which is especially valuable given the generally lower To Wound scores over most units.  Slaughter Queen isn't a bad general (Though I prefer her on a Cauldron than on foot) but if you're running large squads you're going to want some Witchbrews around.

In terms of competitive lists there's quite a lot of options, the tip-top tourney build is still just to take ~90 Witch Aelves under Hagg Nar temple and grind your way across the board, but everything except Blood Stalkers and Lifetakers are solid picks.  In a competitive army you will probably want at least 30 Witch Aelves (probably more to fill out battleline), a Heartrender squad or two to threaten objectives and pick off unsupported elements, probably a Cauldron of Blood to be your general and then fill in the rest to your personal taste, the book offers quite a lot of variety in playstyle to be fair.

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What do people think of bens sisters list that won the GT?

 

and if no realm rules what to replace morathi with?

Edited by CanHammer-darren

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So I have most of the models for the list below, but I am considering changing out the 20 blood sisters for an allied unit of 6 Morrsarr Guard and the slaughter troop Battalion. I could then change the other 10 man unit of witch aelves to sisters of slaughter, or have 2 x 10 witch aelves units and have 50 spare points for an extra command point which would make 2 with the battalion. Thoughts?

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar
Mortal Realm: Ghur
Slaughter Queen on Cauldron Of Blood (330)
- General
- Trait: Devoted Desciples
- Artefact: Iron Circlet
- Prayer: Blessing of Khaine
Morathi High Oracle of Khaine (480)
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer: Catechism of Murder
30 x Witch Aelves (270)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
10 x Witch Aelves (100)
- Sacrificial Knives and Blade Bucklers
10 x Sisters Of Slaughter (120)
- Barbed Whips and Blade Bucklers
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)
20 x Blood Sisters (480)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 124

 

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12 hours ago, Aaron Schmidt said:

Why do people find the Lifetakers underwhelming?

 

They don't really excel at anything that the Heartrenders or Witches wouldn't do better. They have poorly amount of attacks, no reliable Rend, it's hard to support them with heroes (and boy do they need help), and more importantly, literally everything fights at least as well as they do. 5 Lifetakers vs. 10 more Witches or 5 Heartrenders is an easy decision, one which the Lifetakers never win. If you play Khailebron, Witches are better in every regard.

 

 

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Lifetakers could do with a 3+ wound or some other bonus in combat; right now they do get a bonus of +1 damage when they charge. They do feel a little like Blood sisters in that they are the other half of a duel kit that sort of doesn't quite have a strong niche for itself. Then again its just because Daughters have a lot of other solid choices.

 

One issue might just be that because DoK are such a small range in terms of model variety, there's been  a push toward having more powerful choices within it so that they can excel in specific areas of the game/battle because they don't have the large range to bring proper specialists to the table like, say, Stormcast or Seraphon can. This means all their generalist or standard models feel a little weak compared to other things DoK can take. It's not that Lifetakers are outright "bad" just that they are not as good as other things, which have no limit on numbers save for points. 

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On 10/23/2018 at 2:00 AM, Olincay said:

Anyone else feeling abit anxious with the incoming nerf bat? 

I really hope they don't over react and make this army jump up 400 points. 

For all you DoK players thinking about what to do next @Thomas Lyons over at Warhammer Weekly has some ideas for you. Hint it involves one of the two least used units in the DoK. 

 

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On 10/24/2018 at 12:14 PM, Arkalid said:

Hi guys!

 

I've had a break with my Daughters army, mainly because I originally designed it to have only three different kinds of units: Witches, Blood Sisters and Blood Stalkers (Temple Nest list).

However, building and painting the same two boxes seemed boring as hell. So I came up with this list for semi-competitive occasions (I don't do tournaments, but my friends also like to run competent lists):

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine - Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Temple: Khailebron


LEADERS

Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- General
- Command Trait : Mistress of Illusion
- Lore of Shadows : Mindrazor


Morathi High Oracle of Khaine (480)
- Lore of Shadows : Pit of Shades


Hag Queen (60)
- Artefact : Iron Circlet
- Prayer : Sacrament of Blood


UNITS
20 x Blood Sisters (480)


30 x Witch Aelves (270)
-Pairs of Sacrificial Knives


10 x Sisters Of Slaughter (120)
-Barbed Whips and Blade Bucklers


5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)


10 x Doomfire Warlocks (320)
- Lore of Shadows : The Withering


TOTAL: 1950/2000

EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1

WOUNDS: 122


LEADERS: 3/6

BATTLELINES: 3


ARTEFACTS: 1/1

 

Alteration to this list would be to swap Morathi for a Cauldron and 10 more Sisters of Slaughter. Maybe drop 5 warlocks for more Heartrenders and the Slaughter Troupe Battalion for that extra CP and artefact, but that's not gonna be my main goal, as it feels a bit too competitive.  My main question is: would this list be totally curb stomped by most lists of other factions?  Especially Stormcast and Nighthaunt are my main concern (and most common enemies).

I would be more afraid of curb stomping your friends ;) no, seems like a fun list to me. You have the big hammers and with morathi, Khinerai & and warlocks you have enough big tactical choices to make to keep it fun. 

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Guys & gals,

looking for some building tips. I'm finally got my Khinerai in and looking to build them tonight.

So my QUESTION: I thinking about raising and/or lowering some of the models to make pile in easier. But is that necessary? 

And any other tips building them? They seem so delicate ?(read: annoyingly easy to break) 

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9 hours ago, Kramer said:

Guys & gals,

looking for some building tips. I'm finally got my Khinerai in and looking to build them tonight.

So my QUESTION: I thinking about raising and/or lowering some of the models to make pile in easier. But is that necessary? 

And any other tips building them? They seem so delicate ?(read: annoyingly easy to break) 

I have 10 Heartrenders assembled as per the box instructions, granted they don't get in combat all that often but I've never had too much trouble getting them base to base with one another when necessary,  you can turn them sideways where necessary, and the spindly wings can be positioned around when piling in if needs me.

They are very delicate though, I haven't broken any yet but I'm kinda scared every time I have to touch the damn things!  I have been musing over the idea of a 20 model Lifetaker unit for a while now, and if I get round to that I might consider grabbing some solid scenery walls/pillars/etc. to glue them to so they're a little more sturdy.

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