AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

[Olincay]

Im sure this has been discussed loads before, 
But what prayers and artefacts are people running with? and what on which priest?

IE cataclysm on a slaughter queen. 

[InSaint]

18 minutes ago, Olincay said:

Im sure this has been discussed loads before, 
But what prayers and artefacts are people running with? and what on which priest?

IE cataclysm on a slaughter queen. 

Prayers, TBH it doesn't really matter who you allocate it to if you position your Slaughter and Hag Queens properly. 14" range is pretty good. The only scenario you should allocate a less likely to be used prayer is when you are running a lone Slaughter Queen who needs the Dance of Doom

• Catechism of Murder
• Blessing of Khaine (Only if you use Hag Narr)
• Sacrament of Blood (Quite useless from Turn 3 onward if you use Hag Narr)

Artifacts

• Thermalrider Cloak
• Gryph-feather Charm
• Sword of Judgement (I do believe this stacks with Catechism of Murder, but because of the minus to hit Meta this Artifact may be useless)

[Overread]

Question - am I the only one that sees the heads Khinerai models have at their hips as Stormcast face helms? 

[Overread]

Additional I got my GT Studios wolfrider model recently which I'm planning to use for the leader of my Doomfire Warlocks

 

 

The resin quality is great and the scale lines up well to the witch aelves on the rider, the head is even of comparable size and I'm thinking I might swap the default for a witch aelf head or perhaps one of the doomfire rider heads that comes with a mask instead of with the hair blazing behind the rider (esp since the wargs pose is more curved and slow than cantering fast like the doomfires). 

Resin is quite firm, firmer than plastic to work with and holds the detail well; I'd wager it could hold more than the model actually shows and I think that might be a consideration on the part of the designers to one day doing their range in plastic; since as the photo shows the detail level compares well to the GW plastic. 

[Ravenborn]

Wow, that fits really well, with comparable size and detail. 

[Overread]

Yep I plan to get a second so I can eventually run two groups of Doomfires each with their own female leader. Granted it would only work in nonGW locations, but its still a very quick and neat way to get a female warrior atop a suitably fantasy mount!

[Lucentia]

8 hours ago, Overread said:

Question - am I the only one that sees the heads Khinerai models have at their hips as Stormcast face helms? 

It's definitely a Stormcast helmet, I like to imagine it's a memento for a fallen ally, but could just as easily be a mocking trophy, it is a curious choice for the sculpt.

[kenshin620]

9 minutes ago, Lucentia said:

It's definitely a Stormcast helmet, I like to imagine it's a memento for a fallen ally, but could just as easily be a mocking trophy, it is a curious choice for the sculpt.

This actually reminds me, has ANYONE ever ran the Shadow Hammer Compact? What a strange battalion that was.

[Overread]

It sort of makes sense in terms of it bolsters the weak point of Daughters in that its got archers and heavier infantry used to hold the line; but at the same time like the Morathi' one its very expensive to put on the table and that's before you want to add anything else. Plus there's not a single griffhound! I mean what were they thinking?!

[Clinch]

Hi, everyone. 

I am quite new to both AoS and in particular DoK, and am trying to understand some basic tactics when it comes to movement and the positioning of our units. I am only playing 1k point games for the time being, so I assume this can change a bit for 2k+ games as there are more available units for grabbing objectives, flanking etc. And naturally this also changes in some scenarios.

Right now I'm planning on running a couple of blocks of 20-30 witches, a hag or two, a slaughter queen on a cauldron and one TBD choice using the Hagg Nar temple. Later on expanding to include some heartrenders, warlocks and blood sisters as well as some small unit of sisters of slaughter as objective holders.

Should most of the army move forwards as a single clump with the two witch units covering the front and side, cauldron protected in the middle and hag(s) slightly behind the witch units for both protection and to stay near the witches, having them break off slightly once it reaches the enemy? The downside that I can see would be that you might struggle to stay in range of more than one or two objectives at a time, but would of course be able to rip through most opponents in melee. Also the witches would need to move a bit slower than their max speed for the other units to keep up.

Or would it be preferable to just have the witches run forward as fast as possible with the cauldron lagging behind (but within 7" to the main witch unit at least) and the hags also being slightly left behind? Bit scared of the hags being picked off or for the witches to end up with a turn without witchbrew. When I've watched some battle reports, the hags have mostly stayed in the back in the deployment zone, but that seems to be a bit of a waste as they usually only get one usage out of their witchbrew. 

I am still a bit stuck in the thoughts of killing the enemy being the main objective, so it's something I'm trying to change. Any advice for a new player looking to get into the tournament thought process of looking at games? :)

 

[Overread]

Shadowsteed on the Cauldron can help it get a much needed speed boost to move forward faster. 

 

As for if you clump up or spread out that's more a choice based on the terrain and games objectives. A dense block has more chance to survive so long as you don't get something like a purple sun thrown at you (ergo area damage spells or abilities); however as you say, a solid block is going to be more tightly held together and might miss objectives on the edges of the battle. Similarly you need space to move around to ensure that when you do hit combat you can get as many witches into combat as you can. If the terrain is dense and has corridors then all clumped up you might end up with units unable to fully engage because they are getting tangled up with each other. 

It also depends a little on what your opponent does; if they clump up then you might find that its better for you to remain blocked up if its a combat heavy mission; or you could spread out and instead of focusing on killing, you focus on securing and holding more objectives for more turns. 

 

You are certainly right that you want to have hags and support for your witches and that a smart opponent will try to snipe them off at any chance they can get; learning to hide them being terrain, to move them a little slower and then rush up on the charge turn etc.... Also don't forget you should be moving forward fairly quick anyway so the won't get all that much time before they'll be more worried about the big block of witches than the support unit. 

[Clinch]

Thank you, that was very informative (and super quick!). Yeah, it definitely makes sense when you say it that I should attempt to mimic my opponent's movements in whether or not they spread out. It gets a bit trickier with armies such as Nighthaunt though as they can readjust their positioning so quickly by flying through terrain or over some of my units to catch fragile targets.

You say that it's a good idea to get into combat as quickly as possible. I assume this is to tie up enemy units so they can't reposition (without retreat moves anyway)? And does this also apply for opponents where they lack any real form of ranged damage output, or is it then better to hold off a bit in order for turn 3 combat bonuses to kick in? 

I assume a lot of it comes with practice and gets fairly obvious after a few games, seeing what works and what doesn't depending on both the scenario and opponent.

[Overread]

You don't want to always mimic your opponent, its about reading what their battleplan might be. If you've got a line across the board of 3 objectives and the enemy clumps up in middle then you could spread out; hoping to hold the edge objectives; you might even pincer your army so that there is very little in the middle. It varies and depends a lot on what they are running; sometimes you will want to close to engage so that you are dishing out rather than taking damage. Esp if its a ranged army since Daugthers lack a lot of ranged options.

It helps to not only react to your opponent but also to have a plan of your own for the game; remembering that a lot of this theory becomes easier with practice and experience. 

 

As for closing to engage the key is to realise that Daughters are essentially  glass cannon army. Whilst the right temple and setup can give them surprising survivability in combat; at their core they are designed to be fast moving and hit hard in close combat. Overcoming the fact that they've not got as much ranged options (and heck most of the ranged models actually want to be in close combat too) and the fact that they are not like, say, Stormcast and have base high saves (without buffs). I agree if you can wait 3 turns it helps, but at the same time you don't really want to wait 3 turns. You want to initiate the charge and be in close combat as soon as you can so that you dish out the most damage and kill as much as you can first. The latter turn bonuses are there as much to help out because once you start taking losses you might take a lot very quickly. 

Of course the right manoeuvring and terrain and you could well hide up units for a few turns before they engage and thus they can take advantage of those latter turn bonuses. 

[Clinch]

Excellent points. Thanks again. I will try to put this all into action for my next game and afterwards see what I could have done better. 

[InSaint]

I think the Steed of Shadow only affects the caster, so you can't use it on the Cauldron. But you can give the Cauldron a Thermalrider Cloak that increases the movement by 4" and allows it to Fly!

From my experience, use your Witch Aelves to bubble wrap your Cauldron and Hag Queen. Bring a 2nd Hag Queen for back-up, at 60pts they are one of the most under-costed Hero for what they do.

The better armies usually field units that fits a certain purpose exceptionally well. It seems to me you are building a Deathstar, so for it to work you need to keep your Cauldron, Hag and Witches in a tight formation and do what they do best. Murder.

Field specialized units like Khinerai Heartrenders to grab objectives and control the board.

 

[PUFNSTUF]

How would the following be competitive wise for a more full snakes list?

 

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar

Leaders
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- General
- Trait: Devoted Desciples 
- Lore of Shadows: Steed of Shadows
Morathi High Oracle of Khaine (480)
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Slaughter Queen on Cauldron Of Blood (330)
- Artefact: Thousand and One Dark Blessings 
- Prayer: Blessing of Khaine

Battleline
30 x Witch Aelves (270)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
10 x Blood Sisters (280)
10 x Blood Sisters (280)

Units
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)

Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 105
 

[Trav]

Hi all. Any ideas for an effective 1000 point list that wont be too hard to put together?

cheers!

[Overread]

15 hours ago, InSaint said:

I think the Steed of Shadow only affects the caster, so you can't use it on the Cauldron. But you can give the Cauldron a Thermalrider Cloak that increases the movement by 4" and allows it to Fly!

Ahh I keep forgetting that Queens are not mages! Steed would indeed only work on a Bloodwrack Shrine as the medusa is a wizard

[Bellfree]

On ‎9‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 4:46 PM, kenshin620 said:

This actually reminds me, has ANYONE ever ran the Shadow Hammer Compact? What a strange battalion that was.

At the old price it was the only thing that made Lifetakers scary. 50pts extra for no appreciable benefit to the list dumpstered it pretty good.

[Bellfree]

23 hours ago, PUFNSTUF said:

How would the following be competitive wise for a more full snakes list?

 

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar

Leaders
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- General
- Trait: Devoted Desciples 
- Lore of Shadows: Steed of Shadows
Morathi High Oracle of Khaine (480)
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Slaughter Queen on Cauldron Of Blood (330)
- Artefact: Thousand and One Dark Blessings 
- Prayer: Blessing of Khaine

Battleline
30 x Witch Aelves (270)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
10 x Blood Sisters (280)
10 x Blood Sisters (280)

Units
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)

Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 105
 

Hag queen>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>CP, at least 1 is mandatory in basically every DoK build. I also wouldn't run the Slaughter cauldron when it's not the general, the Hag cauldron is far more useful if you're not getting the CA.

[InSaint]

On 9/22/2018 at 9:39 AM, Trav said:

Hi all. Any ideas for an effective 1000 point list that wont be too hard to put together?

cheers!

Depends on your budget?

I ran a 1k Khailebron list for a tournament and it did pretty well. Plenty of flexibility for board control with good hitting power.

1. Bloodwrack Shrine
2. Slaughter Queen
3. Hag Queen
4. 1x10 and 1x20 Witch Aelves
5. 5 Doomfire Warlocks
6. 2x5 Khinerai Heartrenders

This is probably 1 Blood Coven box, 2 Witch Aleves box, 1 Doomfire Box and 2 Khinerai Box.

[PUFNSTUF]

15 hours ago, Bellfree said:

Hag queen>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>CP, at least 1 is mandatory in basically every DoK build. I also wouldn't run the Slaughter cauldron when it's not the general, the Hag cauldron is far more useful if you're not getting the CA.

Thanks for pointing out the slaughter queen CA. Didn’t see it was general only. Guess that makes it tough if you want the snakes battleline.

[Trav]

14 hours ago, InSaint said:

Depends on your budget?

I ran a 1k Khailebron list for a tournament and it did pretty well. Plenty of flexibility for board control with good hitting power.

1. Bloodwrack Shrine
2. Slaughter Queen
3. Hag Queen
4. 1x10 and 1x20 Witch Aelves
5. 5 Doomfire Warlocks
6. 2x5 Khinerai Heartrenders

This is probably 1 Blood Coven box, 2 Witch Aleves box, 1 Doomfire Box and 2 Khinerai Box.

That looks fun. Also lots of mortal wounds

[Emissary]

Finally finished my cauldron of blood.  Now have 90 witch elves to do.

[Overread]

Really nice work there, I like the use of the classic cauldron models! 

 

 

Also fellow Khanites give me strength to order another 30 Witches! I've decided I won't event attempt batch painting them until I've got my ideal core of 100 witches (90 in 3 groups and 10 "spares" some for conversion work and a couple for sacrifice to the painting gods of experimenting). I've got 30 but its painful to spend this much on core troops!