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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

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Hey guys, I just took part in a small AOS 1k Tournament and came in 4th out of 18 players. I am really¬†happy with how versatile DoK is!¬†ūüėÉ

Score - W/W/L

Temple: Khailebron

  • Bloodwrack Shrine w Gryph-feather Charm (Steed of Shadow)
  • Slaughter Queen (General) - Sacrament of Blood
  • Hag Queen - Catechism of Murder
  • 20 Witch Aelves with Dual Daggers
  • 10 Witch Aelves with Bucklers
  • 5 Doomfire Warlocks (The Withering)
  • 5 Khinerai Heartrenders
  • 5 Khinerai Heartrenders

Round 1, Opponent (Grand Host of Nagash), Battleplan (Focal Point), Realm (Chamon, Rust Plague)

  • He-who-must-not-be-named
  • 2x 10 Skeleton Warrior

Outcome: Major Victory. Fighting Nagash was seriously nerve-wracking, he just went around killing whatever he wanted. But having only 3 units was a serious handicap for a 5 Objectives Battleplan. My Bloodwrack Shrine and Doomfire Warlocks was having a field day killing off skeletons denying objectives while Nagash Slaughtered all my Witch Aleves.  Khinerais won me the game by dropping in on the last turn to secure multiple objectives and scoring me the VP to win the game.

Round 2, Opponent (Blades of Khorne), Battleplan (The Better Part of Valor, 4 Objs). Realm (Ghyran, Lifespring)

  • Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut
  • Scyla Anfingrimm
  • Karanak
  • Bloodsecrator
  • 10 Bloodreavers
  • 5 Blood Warriors
  • 5x Khorgoroths

Outcome: Major Victory.  This was an interesting battle between Khorne and Khaine as both were melee specialists and neither wants to be charged at and so I held back on Turn 1. On turn 2,  I managed to kill off his Karanak before it could summon Flesh Hounds and used my Bloodwrack shrine to lock his Lord and 2 Khorgoroth in Close Combat. I dropped in my Khinerais forcing him to park his Bloodreavers and Blood Warriors on his objectives for fear of it getting hijacked and razed for VP. He also pulled back his Bloodsecrator with Sycla for fear of being assassinated.  The game ended with 20 Witch Aelves punching through his Lord, Khorgoroths and 5 Blood Warriors to raze his objective.

Round 3, Opponent (Grand Host of Nagash), Battleplan (Shifting Objectives), Realm ( Hysh, Gleaming Vistas)

  • Vampire Lord on Nightmare
  • 2 Morghast Harbringer with Spirit Halberds
  • 4 Morghast Harbringer with Spirit Halberds
  • 10 Chainrasp Hordes
  • 20 Zombies

Outcome: Major Loss. I have played against a similar list before and I knew a squad of Morghasts is a flying deathstar that could charge and pretty much kill off anything my army could... so I offer in my Khinerais and Shrine as tribute. The positioning was great and my 20 Witch Aelves landed a charge at his 4 Morghast. Unfortunately, the Dice Gods were unhappy. My Doomfire came off with just 1 Mortal Wound on a D6 and 20 Witch Aelves killed just 1 Morghast! His Morghast retaliated killing off all 20 Witch Aelves and by which the game has pretty much been decided with my main force broken.

Interesting Observations

  • Khinerai Heartrenders are friggin awesome. For just 80 pts, the strategic value they bring to the board is just phenomenal. And because their bases are so¬†large;
    • Opponents consistently think they are 2 wounds each and allocate disproportionately large¬†amount of force to respond to them
    • They are excellent screening units to block deathstar movement or charge, with a 5+ save and the possibility of dealing mortal wounds
  • Khailebron Teleport Strategies
    • Never Turn 1 ¬†"Khaileport" your Warlocks to Doomfire. This is overextending and they are 100%¬†going to die.
    • Too far to¬†provide Witchbrew to a unit across the board? Just Khaileport your Hag Queen over to within 3" of a unit that is going to charge soon.
    • Too far to use Orgy of Slaughter? Khaileport the Slaughter Queen to within 14".
    • Khaileporting your Khinerai Heartrenders after they have landed will give them addition -1 to Rend again which is useful against high save targets. And they can still¬†do their special movement after shooting!
  • Bloodwrack Shrine is literally useless w/o getting Steed of Shadows off. Thankfully it is a 5+ to cast.
  • -1 to hit on the Shrine really keeps it alive long enough until the next Hero Phase for Aura of Agony to go off. I actually think Crimson Rejuvenation Prayer might actually work well in this situation.
  • Even if your Slaughter Queen is not within range, it is good to pray for Dance of Doom just in case the opponent has a double turn or she somehow gets the chance to attack. My opponent tried to assassinate her and a nearby Hag Queen,¬†she survived and counter-raped 5 Flesh Hounds.
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Oh I think I could l not agree with Khailebron teleporting Warlocks turn 1is bad idea. It's freaking awesome. I've used it many items with my Khailebron build and they performed great especially if I could find Arcane terrain somewhere. Also Warlocks in Khailebron were good enough so I implemented them in HaggNarr list I won Throne of Skulls with. But they were amazing when teleported turn one in fact they are one of the best units to use teleport on. 

I wouldn't run Bloodwrack Shrine anyway or Medusa unless you're running Snake heavy army. Warlocks are much better as spellcasters. 

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@InSaint

Thanks a lot for your well written tournament Report! There is everything in we could wish for. Lists, short description and the result at the beginning.

Congratulations to your victories. Would you Change something in your list for your next tournament?

Personally I would find a block of 30 witches very attractive, because of the Point Discount. Shrine and Steed is a cool combination. (5+ should be okay) with Khailebron so the Shrine is not all alone in the enemies backyard.

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If I want to start a DoK army with a lot of uh, snake ladies and medusae, what would  be some general advice on what to think about and how to play it? :)

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36 minutes ago, Mikeymajq said:

If I want to start a DoK army with a lot of uh, snake ladies and medusae, what would  be some general advice on what to think about and how to play it? :)

Depends how much Snake ladies is a lot ? I did some theory crafting lists and they looked like 

HaggNar 

Bloodwrack Shrine General 

Hag Queen on Cauldron 

2xHag Queen 

2x20 Blood Sisters 

30 Witch Aelves 

5 Heartrenders 

And you're left with 50 pts for much needed command point. 

You just take objectives with Blood Sisters and thanks to HaggNarr and Witchbrew bunker on them for as long as you could, melee output is amazing so it won't be really ahrd for your opponent to go through all those Blood Sisters. 

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24 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

Depends how much Snake ladies is a lot ? I did some theory crafting lists and they looked like 

HaggNar 

Bloodwrack Shrine General 

Hag Queen on Cauldron 

2xHag Queen 

2x20 Blood Sisters 

30 Witch Aelves 

5 Heartrenders 

And you're left with 50 pts for much needed command point. 

You just take objectives with Blood Sisters and thanks to HaggNarr and Witchbrew bunker on them for as long as you could, melee output is amazing so it won't be really ahrd for your opponent to go through all those Blood Sisters. 

Well that qualifies as a lot for sure, but very similiar to what I had in mind actually. 

I'm mostly worried on the surviveability of the Blood sisters, being quite expensive.  But a block of cheaper infantry could perhaps take the brunt? I suspect Hagnarr is the preferred choice to add some protection?

Also the heartrenders, are they any good for their points? Feels like they won't do too much damage but it might be nice to have a little shooting?

Or is there anything that can buff them up? I've read a little and I think mindrazor will be fantastic on the Sisters but on the archers, that 6+ to hit = 1 mortal wound actually feels like it takes away from any buff apart from buffs on to hit rolls. XD

 

Edited by Mikeymajq

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Blood Stalkers are flat out useless. 

Blood Sisters are amazing but if you want to run Snake heavy army Hagg Narr is I think only way to go, 5++ boost their survivability a lot, re rolls of hits is amazing on Blood Sisters as well. All prayers are awesome for them Sacrament of Blood, Blessing of Khaine and Catechism of Murder plus Mindrazorem of course, once I will have my other unit of 20 Blood Sisters painted I will surely give it a go. 

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Hagg Nar Blood Sisters within a Bloodshield under the effect of Blessing of Khaine is about as tanky as you can get when it comes to DoK (Throw in cover and mystic shield for the theoretical maximum defensiveness).   I've definitely caught opponents off guard who expected to clear out the squad with a key charge only to bounce off of 4+/5++/5++, though I don't tend to run pure snakes so I have little squads of infantry running around to screen from key threats as necessary.

Heartrenders are excellent for their points, not even necessarily for their shooting output (which is handy but is only going to knock a couple of wounds off of something most of the time) but the ability to fly down anywhere on the board couple with their mobility options is vital for playing the objective game, especially in a Hagg Nar list where you often want to keep the core of your force clustered close to the general.  Don't forget they can run and shoot (re-rolling 1s to run) and get that extra 6" move 50% of the time.  They also make decent drop-down screens to deny your opponent movement/charge lanes, but that takes a bit of practice to get right.

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2 hours ago, VorpalPoolNoodle said:

I assume the second 5++ is the re-roll.

Which re-roll and from what?

Edit: Oh, Blessing of Khaine. Duh.

Edited by Aspirant Snaeper

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On 9/10/2018 at 2:01 AM, DantePQ said:

Oh I think I could l not agree with Khailebron teleporting Warlocks turn 1is bad idea. It's freaking awesome. I've used it many items with my Khailebron build and they performed great especially if I could find Arcane terrain somewhere. Also Warlocks in Khailebron were good enough so I implemented them in HaggNarr list I won Throne of Skulls with. But they were amazing when teleported turn one in fact they are one of the best units to use teleport on. 

I wouldn't run Bloodwrack Shrine anyway or Medusa unless you're running Snake heavy army. Warlocks are much better as spellcasters. 

Perhaps 10 Doomfire Warlocks with the +1 to cast and 6 flat mortal wounds might do the trick. I will test this out in a 1.5-2k list.

I brought a Bloodwrack Shrine for versatility. Not only it is a 2nd Wizard, it is able to deal reasonable amount of mortal wounds just in case I encounter any 2+/re-roll 1 saves enemy units. Witch Aelves are great but even with sheer volume of attacks with Mindrazor, they cannot punch through high save targets. And the Bloodwrack Stare ability is surprisingly an efficient way of dealing with large hordes.

On 9/10/2018 at 7:44 PM, Kaleun said:

@InSaint

Thanks a lot for your well written tournament Report! There is everything in we could wish for. Lists, short description and the result at the beginning.

Congratulations to your victories. Would you Change something in your list for your next tournament?

Personally I would find a block of 30 witches very attractive, because of the Point Discount. Shrine and Steed is a cool combination. (5+ should be okay) with Khailebron so the Shrine is not all alone in the enemies backyard.

Thanks! I did play tested 30 Witches but found they were too unwieldy in a 1k army. But I'm definitely going for 2x30 Witches blob in a 1.5-2k army!

Edited by InSaint

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Hey guys, I figured this is the place to ask. The DoK temple that on a roll of a 6 after the end of a combat the unit can pile in and attack a second time, is that immediately or in the normal order? Aka your opponent can fight back then the witch elves swing again. I was showing some buddies the game last night and was unsure. 

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Close combat isn't really a case of attacks and retaliations, but rather each player picks a viable unit in close combat to attack with until you both can't pick one; alternating between you and your opponent for each unit chosen. 

The Temple ability lets you attack for a second time right after your first attack, so it happens before your opponent gets to choose their next viable unit. In addition it only gives your unit another attack, it does not give your opponents unit another attack option.

 

 

So the only time it would give your opponent another combat phase would be if your unit targeted and moved into range of a second enemy unit that was, prior to the pile in move, not in combat range. Though as your unit has to be within 3 inches of the enemy unit already, chances are that this would be a very rare if impossible situation. 

 

So by and large you get an extra attack round from your unit, but your opponent doesn't. 

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I wasn't asking if the opponent gets another set of attacks maybe I worded my question poorly.

What I was asking is - Does the temple ability mean you can be selected again later in the phase (Like Van Hels dance) or can it simply pile in and attack again immediately. 

Thank you for your answer, it cleared it up :)

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17 hours ago, AaronWIlson said:

I wasn't asking if the opponent gets another set of attacks maybe I worded my question poorly.

What I was asking is - Does the temple ability mean you can be selected again later in the phase (Like Van Hels dance) or can it simply pile in and attack again immediately. 

Thank you for your answer, it cleared it up :)

Just curious why are you using this Temple, it is the most lackluster among the 4 temples. 

Edited by InSaint

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Hi all, sorry if this is the wrong place to post this but I was looking for some advice regarding the Daughters of Khaine as I've been considering picking them up.

I've been thinking of making a force based in Shyish and as such I was hoping to use the Realm of Shyish artefacts rather than the faction specific ones. Do people have any experience using these with the Daughters and do any stand out as particularly useful or have any synergy?

Also may I ask how tall Big Morathi is? I was thinking about converting an Avatar of Ynnead to represent a stand-in for this death-based force but I'm unsure of the comparative sizes

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I would say the Daughters of Khaine thread is probably the best place to ask your Daughters of Khaine questions!

I haven't dabbled much with the malign sorcery artifacts myself, I generally don't use battalions and there are enough decent artifacts in the DoK book to take up my one slot, but glancing over the Shyish list none of the weapons particularly jump out at me, though DoK heroes are generally more support units than melee beatsticks for the most part.  Relics-wise lots of people rate the Ethereal Amulet, though amusingly enough if it's probably not as handy in a DoK list as it reduces the effectiveness of any Cauldrons of Blood you might be including!  The Ragged Cloak could be a valid choice, keeping your general safe from harm for a shooting phase could prove vital in a Hagg Nar or Khailebron list.

image.png.f148cbc60263cdfcdd7441fa06f6a6f2.png

Morathi is quite a lot larger then the Yncarne, even if you discount the wings, so it might be tough to get a suitably sized conversion going, unfortunately.

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@Lucentia Thank you very much for your response and the picture. I'd thought the cloak wouldn't be all that good due to their 5+ saves but had no idea it was outright detrimental - so their Bloodshield ability effects themselves as well? But yeah, the Ragged Cloak looks like the only artefact worth looking at on that list and even then its usefulness is minimal at best as it's only once per battle. Oh well, worth a thought.

And wow, I had no idea how relatively tiny the Yncarne was compared to Morathi, I'd thought that since I recalled there being an article on either the Community site or in White Dwarf stating that Morathi's torso was sized to be similar to Alarielle that the same proportions would apply to the Yncarne, but I suppose because it's an Avatar its size is better compared to the Avatar of Khaine. I've been looking for a comparison shot like this for ages and this really helps, thank you :)

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I know large blocks of witch aelves are a competitive build, but how competitive is a more snake heavy list with morathi? Are any battalions worthwhile to try and get the daughters to be a one drop in tournaments?

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27 minutes ago, PUFNSTUF said:

I know large blocks of witch aelves are a competitive build, but how competitive is a more snake heavy list with morathi? Are any battalions worthwhile to try and get the daughters to be a one drop in tournaments?

Tons of snakes are absolutely brutal. You could take the Temple Nest battlion, but that is basically a 490 point tax for a sub-par unit and ability. It helps with drops, but so do maxed out units of snakes. I usually run 3 hags and two Medusas with one as my general, so I don't even bother with trying to get less drops sometimes.

Edited by DJMoose

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45 minutes ago, PUFNSTUF said:

I know large blocks of witch aelves are a competitive build, but how competitive is a more snake heavy list with morathi? Are any battalions worthwhile to try and get the daughters to be a one drop in tournaments?

I’ve been playing a 60 snake list since they came out and they slaughter everything they hit. They’re beyond ridiculous!

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