AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

[JD222]

The wording above references the Khainite cult prayers that are chosen from the list and given for free which are limited to the one time only. All the other prayers on the scrolls themselves can be prayed for multiple times, like for the animating you can have 2-3 statues and as long as you have prayers left can all pray to animate statues, or the dance of doom, or blade of khaine prayer etc. 

[Overread]

@JD222 as I was writing a reply a bout the number of prayers a queen knows I was reminded of the animation prayer and it did indeed confuse me for a moment about the limit per turn  and was trying to find if there was a reference on that prayer to let it be used more than once per turn, since if it was limited it would make avatars almost useless if you had more than one. You are indeed right that its the Kult prayers that are limited 

 

I'm going to stick this one in the FAQ/Index thread because it has some potential to confused and its a good reminder

[Tasman]

10 minutes ago, LennyB said:

Just to add to the confusion.  If it is one attempt per prayer, what use would the Khainite Pendant be?  The bearer can pray 3 times, but if the best we can do is know 2 prayers (1 + animate avatar) why would we need to pray a 3d time?  Now I am really confused.

 

Each priestess knows 2 'generic' prayers, as well as the one she picks. The slaughter queen knows an additional prayer so, she would have four to choose from.....thus three attempts.

[Tasman]

3 minutes ago, Overread said:

@JD222 as I was writing a reply a bout the number of prayers a queen knows I was reminded of the animation prayer and it did indeed confuse me for a moment about the limit per turn  and was trying to find if there was a reference on that prayer to let it be used more than once per turn, since if it was limited it would make avatars almost useless if you had more than one. You are indeed right that its the Kult prayers that are limited 

 

I'm going to stick this one in the FAQ/Index thread because it has some potential to confused and its a good reminder

Wait.... are you saying that only the cult prayers (what I call 'generic') are limited to one try per turn?

[JD222]

7 minutes ago, Overread said:

@JD222 as I was writing a reply a bout the number of prayers a queen knows I was reminded of the animation prayer and it did indeed confuse me for a moment about the limit per turn  and was trying to find if there was a reference on that prayer to let it be used more than once per turn, since if it was limited it would make avatars almost useless if you had more than one. You are indeed right that its the Kult prayers that are limited 

 

I'm going to stick this one in the FAQ/Index thread because it has some potential to confused and its a good reminder

There is a blurb in the book on the strategy page iirc that references it as such I'll try and find the page 

[Overread]

In Summary:

Hag Queens and Slaughter Queens know 2 prayers native to them on their warscroll. - Rune of Khaine and Touch of Death.

They may gain a free third prayer if there are any Avatars of Khaine in the army (baring in mind that the avatars on a Cauldron also count and require animating just like the freestanding ones). 

If you are playing a Daughters of Khaine army then they gain access to the Prayers of the Khainite Cult and learn an additional prayer from the table on page 55. This Prayer can only be attempted to be prayed for once per HERO phase (not one per turn) across the whole army. A pray starts when you roll the dice to see if it works so even if you fail the roll you cant' try again until the next hero phase.

When they take a prayer from the table they can also pray twice in the same hero phase and can attempt to pray for any of the prayers they know for both of those pray attempts. 

 

If they take the Khainite Pendant then they can pray 3 times - not including the additional prayer from choosing a prayer from the table so could pray 4 times! This sounds broken but remember for any one of those 4 attempts to pray if they roll a 1 they get D3 wounds instead of 1, so it can also backfire and kill them!

Edited August 17, 2018 by Overread

[JD222]

Page 67 Hagg Nar: Cauldrons of blood

[JD222]

This 

2 minutes ago, Overread said:

In Summary:

Hag Queens and Slaughter Queens know 2 prayers native to them on their warscroll. - Rune of Khaine and Touch of Death.

They may gain a free third prayer if there are any Avatars of Khaine in the army (baring in mind that the avatars on a Cauldron also count and require animating just like the freestanding ones). 

If you are playing a Daughters of Khaine army then they gain access to the Prayers of the Khainite Cult and learn an additional prayer from the table on page 55. This Prayer can only be attempted to be prayed for once per HERO phase (not one per turn) across the whole army. A pray starts when you roll the dice to see if it works so even if you fail the roll you cant' try again until the next hero phase.

When they take a prayer from the table they can also pray twice in the same hero phase and can attempt to pray for any of the prayers they know. 

100%

[Tasman]

Just now, JD222 said:

This 

100%

Thanks for that. I'm totally lost on these gals.... haven't played them since 8th ed. Big changes and I'm still struggling to put together a force. I may have to proxy in some witches.... I can use some of my other dark elves for that, I guess.

[JD222]

2 minutes ago, Tasman said:

Thanks for that. I'm totally lost on these gals.... haven't played them since 8th ed. Big changes and I'm still struggling to put together a force. I may have to proxy in some witches.... I can use some of my other dark elves for that, I guess.

Awesome welcome back the changes are amazing, and the witches are more deadly than ever! Started DE in 6th edition and struggled through the first stages of AOS but now with DoK, just my opponents struggle to stay alive lol literally cant go wrong with witches and cauldrons and hags. It takes a bit to get used to the praying but again frustrating to opponents that cant dispell them. 

A few things I noticed; I would have a hag on foot start doing my Animation prayers so that on the fail she takes the mortal wound instead of my slaughter queen on cauldron general.

And because I tend to fail those I like to take the iron circlet to reroll the 1's or to choose blood sigil and take an additional prayer from the cult prayer list. 

It can also be fun to give my opponent first turn if prayers went off the round before because they will remain buffed and not have to re pray. 

 

 

 

[Kramer]

10 hours ago, Tasman said:

Thanks for that. I'm totally lost on these gals.... haven't played them since 8th ed. Big changes and I'm still struggling to put together a force. I may have to proxy in some witches.... I can use some of my other dark elves for that, I guess.

Have fun! Was in de same boat as you. (still working towards 2K). I would recommend supplementing the witches with Executioners until you the snakes. Works a treat for me and as an old world player it fits fluffwise as well.

[Tasman]

13 hours ago, Kramer said:

Have fun! Was in de same boat as you. (still working towards 2K). I would recommend supplementing the witches with Executioners until you the snakes. Works a treat for me and as an old world player it fits fluffwise as well.

Yeah, I've thought about bringing them. Thanks!?

[DantePQ]

So I managed to win WarhammerFest Throne of Skulls Tournament with my Daughters of Khaine, I had all 4 major wins and most kill points plus enough points to from Sportsmanship and Painting. 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/08/18/18th-aug-warhammer-fest-europe-live-bloggw-homepage-post-1fw-homepage-post-1/

Edited August 19, 2018 by DantePQ

[jazzy128]

33 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

So I managed to win WarhammerFest Throne of Skulls Tournament with my Daughters of Khaine, I had all 4 major wins and most kill points plus enough points to for Sportsmanship and Paiting. 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/08/18/18th-aug-warhammer-fest-europe-live-bloggw-homepage-post-1fw-homepage-post-1/

Congratulations!

Any new inventions from your list or play style?

[DantePQ]

That's funny as I was going to use Slaughter Troupe army list but minis didn't get to me in time (post office screwed this up badly as it took 6 days instead of 24h) so one day before tournament I had to scrap whole list. 

I took 

HaggNarr Temple 

Ghur Realm

Slaughter Queen of Cauldron + Blessing of Khaine + Gryph-feather Charm 

Morathi with Mindrazor 

2xHag Queen (Martyr's Sacrifice and Catechism of Murder) 

30 Witches with Knives 

30 Witches with Bucklers 

10 Witches with Knives 

5 Heartrenders 

10 Doomfire Warlocks. 

It was risky to start without CP but I manged to play around it with deployment. 

Warlocks were really great and Gryph-feather Charm will be my go to item for sure - 1 to hit won be final battle against Sylaventh. With HaggNarr  and Look out Sir it's amazing and extra inch of move for Cauldron is quite handy. 

Edited August 19, 2018 by DantePQ

[JD222]

43 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

So I managed to win WarhammerFest Throne of Skulls Tournament with my Daughters of Khaine, I had all 4 major wins and most kill points plus enough points to for Sportsmanship and Paiting. 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/08/18/18th-aug-warhammer-fest-europe-live-bloggw-homepage-post-1fw-homepage-post-1/

That is so epic! Congrats @DantePQ!! How did Morathi do? What did you use her for more, high Oracle or shadow queen form?

[Tasman]

CC welcome.

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar
Mortal Realm: Ulgu
Slaughter Queen on Cauldron Of Blood (330)
- General
- Trait: Devoted Desciples  
- Artefact: Hagbrew  
- Prayer: Crimson Rejuvenation
Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer: Sacrament of Blood
Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer: Catechism of Murder
Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer: Blessing of Khaine
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- Lore of Shadows: Steed of Shadows
Sorceress (100)
- Allies
30 x Witch Aelves (270)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
30 x Witch Aelves (270)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
10 x Sisters Of Slaughter (120)
- Barbed Whips and Blade Bucklers
5 x Doomfire Warlocks (160)
- Lore of Shadows: The Withering
5 x Doomfire Warlocks (160)
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
5 x Blood Sisters (140)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 100 / 400
Wounds: 139
 

[DantePQ]

@JD222 We played with Realms rules so Morathi was great with her ability to cast three spells as there are always 2-3 good to great Realm spells. I usually kept her in small form until turn 3 then change her and counter charge. Without many long range threats and little mortal wounds threats that can hurt her I was pretty comfortable keeping her in the back. I think you really need to use both her forms to justify her cost but in some match ups you will transform her right away :

A) because you got to 

B) because it will help your army more. 

She won't win a game single handly but the more I play with the more I like how she can be used. I think it's also because I got a lot of experience with her as she isn't easy to play. 

[Lord Veshnakar]

Whoops missed the post, ignore.

Edited August 19, 2018 by Lord Veshnakar

[Overread]

Congratulations @DantePQ I saw the post in the Warhammer blog and saw those daughters and thought "hey those look really familiar" so it was great to come here and see that it was your army standing proud and taking a well deserved win! Even more so to read that you didn't get to use the army composition you wanted - great to see Daughters faring well to adaptation and that there is more than one or two viable builds for them (which is exactly where we want any army to be)

[DantePQ]

It all comes down to execution and with DoK you can make every army work as they only truly bad unit we have are Blood Stalkers. 

Doomfire Warlocks worked great, they have great mobility and opponent can't just ignore them.  Place them near Arcane to have +2 to unbid to mess up enemy magic. Surprisingly playing them defensively with HaggNar works as well as more aggressive option to teleport them with Khailebron. HaggNar armies could be quite static to be in range to 5++ and if Doomfires you don't always need this so you can spread out a little. 

I had some trouble with using them well in first two battles as I ve only used them in Khailebron before but they made battles 3 and 4 - much much easier. 

Not having a CP at the start was a challenge for multi drop army but I managed to play around very wellI could take 2CPs instead of Heartrenders but Heartrenders are a must in HaggNarr as they can help to spread out and keep opponent units on objectives. 

Edited August 19, 2018 by DantePQ

[Aspirant Snaeper]

@DantePQ What kind of armies did you face off against aside from Sylvaneth? 

@Overread While I'm inclined to share your delight that the Daughters are flexibile, his list still features some common themes of other successful lists like 30/30/10, Heartrenders, Doomfires, Hagg Nar. 

It's nice that they can be adjusted to ones play style (or due to adversity) and it's clear that they require experience to play well, but I feel like there are certain units that are stronger than others and will always fit in in some form.

[The Traitor]

Congratulations @DantePQ, recognised your army on the community article ! I might be playing something similar as you in the near future as I'm getting Morathi (three spells in 2nd es seems too good to pass up) and also play Hagg Nar around a cauldron. Are you planning on making a tournament battle report as you've made before? I always find them very interesting and I think reading how you won the Throne of Skulls would be even better! Also thanks on pointing out the Gryph Feather Charm, I had been using the Miasmatic Blade on my queen which is basically the same minus the extra inch, duh... And, lastly, after the tournament, would you consider splitting the doomfires into two units for extra flexibility or the chance of dealing 6MW is just too much? I usually end up using them more for mobility than other thing, so I'm not too sure about taking a big unit or two smaller ones...

 

[Lord Veshnakar]

I’m starting to think we are very inevitably going to see a significant price hike on Witch Elves, Sisters of Slaughter, Hag Queens, and Morathi with the next GHB. Everyone locally here weeps about them being underpriced. 

[Overread]

13 minutes ago, Lord Veshnakar said:

I’m starting to think we are very inevitably going to see a significant price hike on Witch Elves, Sisters of Slaughter, Hag Queens, and Morathi with the next GHB. Everyone locally here weeps about them being underpriced. 

On the flipside Daughters are a glass canon faction. 

Personally I'd rather see daughters take a stat drop over a point cost rise. It already feels tricky to fit a nice diverse army together; if the points went up a lot it gets even harder. Yes it gets around the power issue if there really is one, however it also means that army choice, variety and compositions reduce.