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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

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16 minutes ago, Rekmeister said:

So, I've been thinking a lot about Khailbron and endless spells. 

I'm not at the 2000pt level yet, but I think I have worked out a list designed to drop a purple sun on turn 1 in the heart of the enemy. Here is the list:

Bloodwrack Shrine - General: Mistress of Illusions / Shadow Stone/Mindrazor

5 Blood Sisters

5 Blood Sisters

10 Doomfire Warlocks: Mindrazor

Purple Sun of Hysish

Emerald Lifeswarm/Hag Queen.

So if it isn't obvious already, the plan here is to teleport the Doomfire warlocks to 9" away from the enemy,  cast purple sun (adding 1 to the roll), deploy it within 6" and then move it 9", resulting in a 15" deep strike. Yes enemy deployment can counter this, but most armies can be relied to field  either a big unit for the sun to decimate, or lots of small ones clumped together. For different matchups I can teleport the Bloodwrack Shrine in to cast the sun and perform a bloodwrack stare.

Yes, this leaves 11 models to fight a 1000pt army, but if the plan is to nuke them in the first turn, I am confident that the insane damage output of the snake ladies will clean house against the enemy. I am debating between the swarms and the hag because Witchbrew is lit; but the lifeswarm can outright resurrect models, and with the sisters costing 140p for 5 I'm almost always the player who stands to gain the most from one unit being regenerated/returned by D3 per turn.

I chose Mindrazor as my spell for both units so that I can punish opponents with lower bravery/gain an edge over units whose bravery is being hurt by the sun.

I think this is a (somewhat) consistent army with a turn 1 play that has a 50/50 chance to nuke the enemy; thoughts?

At least what I have experienced is that predatory endless spells are not exactly reliable. After their initial cast, they only move between battlerounds, which is much less often than you think. Hag queen is always a great choice and IMHO you can always use more Blood Sisters.

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@DJMoose Yeah I follow the logic regarding predatory spells. Nevertheless they look like a bit of fun and at least let me be aggressive on two fronts. I don't doubt that they are largely psychological weapons; but sometimes those can work. I definitely need more Blood Sisters. Building towards two units of 20; but I don't hobby every week and I'm happy building slowly. I have a 2k Seraphon list where I imagine I'll get more use out of both spells; but the potential with Khaliebron is very tantalizing as it offers a guaranteed deep strike with casting modifiers on either of my casters. Thanks for the advice on the Hag Queen, I can't help but agree that she will probably be better than the Lifeswarm.

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4 hours ago, Kramer said:

Any useful takeaways? Or was it so close in points it was a bit down to luck? 

Slaughtered everything around the Glotkin. His Blight Kings just couldn’t handle the attacks from the blood sisters.  He definitely had more magic, but it made little difference in the end. Glotkin was his anchor overall. I just went after all of his other stuff.  Ended up with a major victory.  

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Salutations! Made the account mostly to post here. My roommate is looking at getting into AoS, and I wasn't hard to convince. I love me some snake people, so this faction was a no brainer for me. 

 

We're at starting with 1k armies, to help us ease into it. Obviously, as they are the reason for my enjoyment of the faction, I am going to want as many snake ladies as I can. So far I'm thinking this for a list:

Khailebron

Bloodwrack Medusa [general]

Hag Queen

5x Blood Sisters

5x Blood Sisters

5x Blood Stallers

5x Blood Stalkers

Temple Nest

 

this leaves me with 70 points unaccounted for. Obviously I could grab another Hag Queen, but that would mean buying another box [as I would get the first Queen with my Medusa]. I'd rather try to keep it as cheap as possible for now. The reason I'm looking at Khailebron is because, when we eventually expand our army, I can keep the entire main forces in the battalion so they all get that neat rule. My general plans for expanding are more Sisters, and shrines/cauldrons for my heroes, as well as potentially more heroes as points work out. 

 

Still debating spells/prayers/items. Advice there?

 

Am I being foolish for trying to squeeze in the battalion at this point cost? I was also considering dropping the battalion and the Queen to put the Medusa on a Shrine and get 5 more Sisters, either to beef up a unit or to be a new unit. 

 

My goal here is not to have a super competitive army, just to help learn the rules, easy into my collection, and have fun. But part of having fun is not getting rofl-stomped constantly. I have a feeling it should be fine as is, but figured I'd check with everyone here. 

 

Also, roommate is going Dispossed. He'a a bit of a dwarf nut, and would rather stick with the classic dwarves rather than any of these "new-fangled" offshoots. If that plays any part in this.

 

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Yes, I saw that battlereport, and was happy that it did so well as it is basically what I'm going for exactly [even thought about converting the Queens into snake girls, although I believe I'll wait till I have more experience with modeling for that]. I couldn't find any other videos with similar armies though, so figured I'd check opinions here too. Is that battle the norm for this kind of army?

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12 hours ago, Fyrm said:

Salutations! Made the account mostly to post here. My roommate is looking at getting into AoS, and I wasn't hard to convince. I love me some snake people, so this faction was a no brainer for me. 

 

We're at starting with 1k armies, to help us ease into it. Obviously, as they are the reason for my enjoyment of the faction, I am going to want as many snake ladies as I can. So far I'm thinking this for a list:

Khailebron

Bloodwrack Medusa [general]

Hag Queen

5x Blood Sisters

5x Blood Sisters

5x Blood Stallers

5x Blood Stalkers

Temple Nest

 

this leaves me with 70 points unaccounted for. Obviously I could grab another Hag Queen, but that would mean buying another box [as I would get the first Queen with my Medusa]. I'd rather try to keep it as cheap as possible for now. The reason I'm looking at Khailebron is because, when we eventually expand our army, I can keep the entire main forces in the battalion so they all get that neat rule. My general plans for expanding are more Sisters, and shrines/cauldrons for my heroes, as well as potentially more heroes as points work out. 

 

Still debating spells/prayers/items. Advice there?

 

Am I being foolish for trying to squeeze in the battalion at this point cost? I was also considering dropping the battalion and the Queen to put the Medusa on a Shrine and get 5 more Sisters, either to beef up a unit or to be a new unit. 

 

My goal here is not to have a super competitive army, just to help learn the rules, easy into my collection, and have fun. But part of having fun is not getting rofl-stomped constantly. I have a feeling it should be fine as is, but figured I'd check with everyone here. 

 

Also, roommate is going Dispossed. He'a a bit of a dwarf nut, and would rather stick with the classic dwarves rather than any of these "new-fangled" offshoots. If that plays any part in this.

 

With those 70 points I think you pick up either another hag queen or an endless spell or two . You can get individual spells on ebay if you don't want to buy the whole box. Suffocating Gravetide is only 30pts and it can cause a lot of issues if moved efficiently. I don't think you are mad trying to fit the battalion into 1k as the rules for it are pretty good; most 1k armies need to roll attacks so it triggers a lot. As for prayers, with no big units to buff you may as well just take blessing of khaine or crimson rejuvenation to keep the medusae safe. 

Don't worry too much about dropping the battalion as it lets you translate enemy attacks into mortal wounds. Even if paying for it means using a loose medusae. I was using the medusae back when it was a unit in the compendium rules and they were great then and are even better now. A spellcaster with decent attacks, 6 artefacts of her own, and an insane vision attack that is good at pinging elites and incredible at slaughtering a hoard. Just keep her behind the lines and make sure you are making the most profitable decision with her every turn. 

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Hey All.  Been curious about an official ruling on the questions below, which are all related.  

  • How does Disciples of Slaughter (Kraith ability) interact with the Dance of Doom prayer from the SQ?  Can I make up to 4 pile-ins and attacks, assuming I roll a 6 after my initial attack and another 6 after my Dance of Doom attack?
  • How does the Dance of Doom and Disciples of Slaughter interact with Orgy of Slaughter?  The underlying issue I have is with the words on Orgy of Slaughter that says it "can pile in and attack as if it were the combat phase" and then the references to "combat phase" on the other abilities.
  • By my reading, if I have a SQ with the Venom of Nagandra, when she uses the artifact and is affected by the Dance of Doom and/or Disciples of Slaughter, the Venom is in effect for all separate attack sequences she makes that combat phase? This one seems a pretty clear yes but just checking.

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Totally random Q: I saw some conversations in here about the Shadowblade Assassin... Is there any restriction on what unit you could put a Shadowblade Assassin ally in? For example, could it be placed in a mounted unit (eg, doomfire warlocks), flying unit (eg, Khinerai,) or hero (eg, morathi)?

Seems like you could have some fun with these options...

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I think they changed the Assassin's warscroll in one of the latest FAQs to let it hang around in any Order unit?  Or maybe it was always like that actually, thinking on it, I used to have one jumping out of my Dreadlord on Black Dragon, modeled as a sort of bodyguard instead of the cloak and dagger type.

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You dont have to pick the unit it is disguised in anymore. Used to have to write down which one and if that unit got destroyed so did the assassin.

Now can basically pop them out in any combat phase just has to be within 3" of a friendly unit, and if you have 2 need to be 9" away from each other cant have them pop up at same spot.

Also cannot give them artefacts.

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54 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

What? Why? Where is the paragraph that states that?

A page or two back I mentioned it, is from the generic  FAQ updates from July,  says allies cannot be your general, cannot use artefacts. 

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The Assassin can, however, have artifacts if you are running a Shadowblades Army

Edited by Overread
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I´m thinking of a little conversion, since I´d like to add Doomfire Warlocks to my roster, but want an all female army. My idea is to use the DW horses, but as riders I´d take Sisters of the Thorne, and use some bits from the Witch Aelves. In addition, I thought that the old drakespawns would be nice as mounts for them (as long as it´s okay for my opponent to have drakespawn with horse rules on the table).

For now, this is just an idea, but I´ll want to do this in the near future. I´ll keep you updatet.

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Just to note the way that the Doomfire Warlocks are built the legs and hips (ergo all the lower body) is part of the horse itself. So you can change the upper body but not the lower if you keep the original horses. 

Otherwise yes sisters of thorn might be a good conversion with some witch aelf parts and drakespawn

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9 hours ago, Phynxes said:

I´m thinking of a little conversion, since I´d like to add Doomfire Warlocks to my roster, but want an all female army. My idea is to use the DW horses, but as riders I´d take Sisters of the Thorne, and use some bits from the Witch Aelves. In addition, I thought that the old drakespawns would be nice as mounts for them (as long as it´s okay for my opponent to have drakespawn with horse rules on the table).

For now, this is just an idea, but I´ll want to do this in the near future. I´ll keep you updatet.

I recommend using Glade Riders Horses and for the bodies the Sisters of Thorn are a very good kit with nice bits. The bodies might fit well with witch elve heads. (or with just little conversation effort)

 

Check out the sprues of it holds what you wanna work with:

https://www.games-workshop.com/de-AT/Sisters-of-the-Thorn-2017

 

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So I've been out of the game for a little over a year now. I've been mostly piling up Chaos stuff (StD, Khorne Mortals/Daemons) and I figured it might be time to sate my bloodlust with a different God of War. 

I really like Daughters of Khaine because I feel like they fit my play-style a bit more, and give me access to Magic. I'm in love with the models and rules, but I really only know as much about them as I can glean from looking at warscrolls and perusing 1d4chan tactics pages. 

I'm a huge fan of hit and run tactics and I love the idea of Khinerai Heartrenders and Doomfire Warlocks rushing around the board and peppering things to death before Blood Sisters or pumped up Battleline units can move in and finish them off. 

I've made this list as a starting point and am wondering where I should go from here for Heroes? I'm also willing to swap out my general and Blood Sisters for Witch Elves or Sisters of Slaughter (and am curious about everyone's thoughts on the pros/cons between the two based on your experience). 

W876PbN.png

 

I'd ideally like to use the DoK as a starting point for a larger Aelf collection, using them as the basis to ally in other units from Idoneth Deepkin and Order Serpentis. 

Thanks for your time and any feedback you can offer. 

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@Aspirant Snaeper consider allying in a Shadowblade Assassin. You can hide it  (or even two, one in each) into one of the heartrender groups. That way when they land and strike you've got an additional punch in the group - especially if you send them hunting after a solo hero! Hit and run is their key function, but remember khinerai are super fragile so they aren't going to be able to weather much return attack. Use them to mob a single isolated target; or to sweep in and provide support for your snakes. 

 

I'd also say put one of those Blood sisters up to a 10 and add in a Hag Queen for some support and Witchbrew; or you could add in a Slaughter queen for support and a second spell unbind.

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So opinions on bad match ups for us? 

Finally had my first game running dok, I totally depred the game But it was a good learning experiece. 

Faced off against a death army with Nagash, 40 skellies, chain rasps, ect.

I put a unit of 25 witches into the 40 skellies which just bounced,  i kinda expected that Would be the outcome. But I was just getting a vibe for the potential damage output a fully buffed unit of witches can do. 

Kinda got me thinking tho, we cant rely on mind razor against death due to thier high bravery, they're resliant, grow back. 

So are they a touch match up? 

Potentially the same thing applies for nurgle? 

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The main weakness DoK have is that they lack any kind of proper tarpit. Morathi is probably the most "tanky" of all the range because of her wound mechanic and when she is in her transformed state. 

So any unit that can regeneration, restore lost warriors or has a high defensive capacity is going to be tough. DoK rely on doing a powerful alpha-strike and doing significant damage then; with the view that the return damage is far reduced. If that's not the case then they can get cut down. 

 

I think the trick is to either avoid those units and try to go around them and secure objectives or strike at weaker units - making heavy use of high mobility. Or to focus a block of the army on those units so that whilst the enemy has a tough tarpit unit; the DoK get the first strike from multiple angles to cut it down to nothing. 

 

So either splitting the army up to go for other things; or focusing the army like a single blade on the enemy. 

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Interestingly I have found Witch Aelves one of the few things which can chop through a 40 model skeleton block with relative ease under ideal circumstances, though it does depend on getting Mindrazor through (often easier said then done!) to remove the effect of their shields.  The only problem, of course, is when you don't kill off the whole unit and now you're in a spot of trouble as they all come back to life...

Ideally you'd want to try and kill off the bulk of the heroes first before engaging with the skeletons but, of course that's not exactly a walk in the park.

I think Nurgle can be a bad match up, Plaguebearer blobs will be able to gum up Witches for a decent while if they can get -2 to hit, Fleshy Abundance, etc.  And there are a few sources of long range mortal wounds which can pick out Hag Queens and other support elements. 

 

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I think Khinerai with a Shadowblade Assassin support is a decent way to threaten heroes or artillery or other ranged targets even early in the game. It's not cheap and its not going to last but it means for 160 points you can put two decent units down and be a viable threat. Granted unless you are lucky they won't stand up to much retaliation so it can be an expensive one-shot-wonder move. But if it cripples or takes out a few key units or even just one powerful hero then its done its business in helping protect the rest of your force. 

The other option is to load up on Blood Sisters which come with rending and glazetouch.

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To provide the perspective of this same conversation that just happened in the Khorne thread (albeit in regards to Nighthaunts), the philosophy is Death by a Million cuts. When faced with tough units that regenerate, ignore rend and just seem to absorb damage all around, the best philosophy is to hit them as much as possible. 

Not just with units that have boosted attack profiles, but also trying to hit out of phase. Simple things like Temple Nest's MW on an opponents hit roll of 1, Slaughter Queen's Orgy of Slaughter, Morathi's Worship Through Bloodshed, etc. 

If the problem is durability, then maybe seek out allying some units in. I was planning on eventually getting Order Serpentis and Idoneth Deepkin units which seem to bring longevity. 

As my experience is mostly with Khorne, realize that my opinion is flawed. But I'm used to paper-thin heavy hitters like Bloodreavers and Bloodletters that have been supercharged into blender mode while being backed up by tankier infantry. DoK at least have mobility, range and magic that they can tap to find ways around their shortcomings, but allies can offer tough stand alone units to help you. Ishlaen Guard, War Hydra's, Drakespawn Knights and a Dreadlord on Black Dragon seem to be good friends in this regard. 

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