AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

[Xil]

2 hours ago, DJMoose said:

Personally I think there will be a new battletome for us around when the shadow elves come out.

There is no estimate for when the shadow elves come? Or do you speak of the Khainite? 

[Binkbinkplx]

Anyone able to share the WhatsApp link for DOK?

[Overread]

4 hours ago, DJMoose said:

Personally I think there will be a new battletome for us around when the shadow elves come out.

If you mean the new set of models for Warcry I would not expect GW to release a new Tome for one set of models. They are more likely to use the app, the website and the model instructions to give us the rules for one new unit of models.

A new Battletome I'd expect to come with at least several new kits (esp since DoK hasn't really got any old kits worth replacing - the oldest is probably the Doomriders and they are not that old)

[Chumphammer]

1 hour ago, Binkbinkplx said:

Anyone able to share the WhatsApp link for DOK?

https://chat.whatsapp.com/GgviNsOWIiA86Bvqyr5ecv

[Binkbinkplx]

2 minutes ago, Chumphammer said:

https://chat.whatsapp.com/GgviNsOWIiA86Bvqyr5ecv

Thanks bud!

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

3 hours ago, Overread said:

If you mean the new set of models for Warcry I would not expect GW to release a new Tome for one set of models. They are more likely to use the app, the website and the model instructions to give us the rules for one new unit of models.

A new Battletome I'd expect to come with at least several new kits (esp since DoK hasn't really got any old kits worth replacing - the oldest is probably the Doomriders and they are not that old)

I expect a new tome next year (Fyreslayers and Kharadrons both got updated three years after their initial release, I believe). Having said that I don't think we'll get any new units in the tome other than the Khainite Shadowstalkers (I think (and hope)) and Morgwaeth's Blade-coven.*

Speaking of, the fact that Morgaeth and her Coven are listed in the updated points leads me to believe that they would have been released by now if not for the machinations of Clan Pestilens. I look for their announcement every weekend.

*Edit: and maybe a terrain piece.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Thalassic Monstrosity

[Overread]

3 years is an abnormally short period of time for a new Battletome. It does happen, but its not common, part of the reason Aos had faster than normal turn arounds is because AoS had some major restructurings and the early tomes were pushed out fast to try and sooth a very irate customerbase after the whole "no rules do what you want" disaster of a launch of AoS. That's why they were very bare bones and mostly just warscrolls with not much else. 

 

Moving forward GW normally leaves a longer period of time, on average, between tomes and updates. I'd be surprised if AoS was getting new Tomes adding only one or two new models to the range for small armies or replacing one or two for bigger ranges. Sure its what they did for 2.0, but that's because 2.0 was being pushed out at around one tome a month for a two year period. It was fast, too fast for GW to do bigger releases for all armies. Furthermore most of the armies didn't have a tome and some of the armies weren't even established as armies. So they didn't need lots of additions, it was basically establishing AoS as a game. 

 

That's why going forward I would expect bigger changes. DoK aren't even in a bad place balance wise, they work really well and have done through AoS 2.0 from start to now. You can't release a new book for them if there isn't much to change or add. So I'd wager we won't see a book until such time as there's perhaps a "second wave" of models. 

[Graywater]

23 hours ago, Chumphammer said:

Hag on foot up 10

Bloodwrack shrine and hag on cauldron down 10

Doomfire warlocks down 20

So we go pretty much untouched. 

 I'm down 20 points now thanks to the cauldron and shrine. Getting a triumph roll is a big deal (provided they aren't removed in the upcoming GHB). Thanks for this little update. Been watching the point change posts trickle in just waiting for the DoK to pop up.

[zedatkinszed]

On 7/7/2020 at 9:30 AM, Overread said:

3 years is an abnormally short period of time for a new Battletome. It does happen, but its not common, part of the reason Aos had faster than normal turn arounds is because AoS had some major restructurings and the early tomes were pushed out fast to try and sooth a very irate customerbase after the whole "no rules do what you want" disaster of a launch of AoS. That's why they were very bare bones and mostly just warscrolls with not much else. 

[...]

That's why going forward I would expect bigger changes. DoK aren't even in a bad place balance wise, they work really well and have done through AoS 2.0 from start to now. You can't release a new book for them if there isn't much to change or add. So I'd wager we won't see a book until such time as there's perhaps a "second wave" of models. 

I tend to disagree based on all the other factions. Fyreslayers and Sylvaneth are on their second battletome as are Seraphon, SCE, Orruks, Ogres, Khorne and Tzeentch. Technically Skaven are also on battletome mark 2 (Clan Pestilens was an early release). And I mean KO just literally got a new book and their book only launched in Spring 2017.

So that leaves the following factions to get updated tomes:

• Nurgle (winter 2017)
• DOK (spring 2018)
• LON (spring 2018)
• IDK (spring 2018)

With the exception of LON, the other 3 armies were definitely designed with AOS 2.0 in mind but were finalized before the new edition was fully conceptualized/planned. DOK and Nurgle have no endless spells or any explicit mention of them. Neither do IDK, but at least the fish elves have scenery, the other 3 don't.

So just going by the evidence of what GW have done with ALL their factions so far, DOK are in line for an update in the next 18 months. Just as they were in line for an Underworlds release - which is coming. I know re: the rule of cool but these days there does seem to have been a pattern to what gets released. 

While I'd love to see a new wave of stuff and a replacement for the Warlocks with a new kit, going by GW's form with other updated tomes, it'll be a Hero, some endless spells and a piece of scenery and a reconceived book.

That's what I'll put my money on, but like you I'd much prefer a wave of new models and to wait a few more years.

Edited July 8, 2020 by zedatkinszed

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, zedatkinszed said:

Neither do IDK, but at least the fish elves have scenery, the other 3 don't

Nurgle has the trees since that book.  
otherwise good analyses. 

[Overread]

 Cities of Sigmar and Orruks also didn't get any spells nor terrain and I've a gut feeling that one or two other factions didn't get spells/terrain in their updates, though it was less common. Certainly 2.0 evolved over time, that said the 2.0 compatible battletomes are a world apart from the early 1.0 tomes that gw rushed out of the door. 

DoK have their 2.0 battletome, the rules for 2.0 were finalised and written out long before they were printed and sold. I wouldn't expect GW to start giving them a near 2.1 battletome this early, especially just to add a few spells or one set of models (remember warcry are just one unit profile its not multiple units - at least if they follow the Slaves to Darkness band design). That's not enough to convince people to spend money on a new Battletome. Perhaps a supplement document sure they've done that before, but not a whole new publication. That would suggest a much more major reworking of the faction from the ground up.

 

Same for the others you mention. I figure we won't see tomes now for armies that have them until one of two things happens/

 

1) We get a 3.0 rules edition

2) GW has a good chunk of models to add/update the range with at the same time as the new Tome - generating interest and excitement and a desire to buy it. 

[zedatkinszed]

4 hours ago, Overread said:

Same for the others you mention. I figure we won't see tomes now for armies that have them until one of two things happens/

1) We get a 3.0 rules edition

2) GW has a good chunk of models to add/update the range with at the same time as the new Tome - generating interest and excitement and a desire to buy it. 

Again I see your point but I don't think so. If that were the case why update KO? Or Sylvaneth. Exactly how many new models did they get? Or Fyreslayers. All they got was ... Endless spells and terrain. And the Orruks and COS didn't get endless spells argument is a chimera. Orruks and COS both got rules for existing spells. DOK and IDK have nothing in that line. 

A part from that the tome does need a complete rework. For different reasons but just like KO and Fyreslayers and Tzeentch did.

Also Keep in mind, Nurgle will get a new book. There has not been a year without a new Chaos book. Khorne, Skaven, BoC, Slaanesh, STD and Tzeentch are just out so unless they create a new chaos faction (which would be great) that leaves Nurgle next in line.

I'm not saying any of this is going to happen tomorrow but 18 months time ... probably.

[Falkman]

5 hours ago, zedatkinszed said:

Again I see your point but I don't think so. If that were the case why update KO? Or Sylvaneth.

At least for Sylvaneth the answer is pretty easy; they didn't have any proper sub-faction rules in their previous battletome. You could run Glade-specific battalions to unlock a semblance of them, but there were no free sub-factions like most modern tomes have. Both DoK and IDK do have these sub-factions though (even if they are not as fleshed out/follow the same mold as later ones) so they are more in line with current AoS and less in need of updates because of that.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Falkman

[Clan's Cynic]

On 7/7/2020 at 9:30 AM, Overread said:

Moving forward GW normally leaves a longer period of time, on average, between tomes and updates

In fairness, that was standard operating procedure before GW ramped up their release schedule to the fastest it's ever been. We don't really know yet if they will fall back on an Army Books/Codexes (and now) Battletomes being left to languish for over half a decade. I don't really see them going back to that because they know that more regular updates mean a (arguably) healthier game and more pennies in their pocket. 

[Chumphammer]

The finished DOK list before the end of GBH2019 lol

Never got to play it sadly.

Gotta see what options I have for GHB2020. Celestant Prime (now a tasty 300 from 340) could be coming into the list as Chariots went up

[Xil]

Any guess on the new rumors engine picture? 

[Overread]

Most think its a new Lylyth for Dark Eldar in 40K as its got the same hair bangles and style, plus another rumour engine image shows a blade very similar to hers. Of course her model already looks very DoK in style so a new model for them, if its done right, could be a nice character stand-in for our own. 

[Chumphammer]

The Underworlds DOK are out in August 

[Rhivan]

6 hours ago, Xil said:

Any guess on the new rumors engine picture? 

It's Lelith Hesperax. The barbs in her hair is a trademark of her, as well as the knife from a few weeks ago is a Dark Eldar Wych knife 1 for 1. Only difference is a bit of cloth tied to it (which lines up with the Incubus cloth). Finally the gauntlet has the distinct dark eldar style and even the little knuckle studs. 

[Chumphammer]

With the FAQs up, some of the more problematic things just got nerfed

Pentifx Elite is now no longer a +1AS, its a Reroll 1's in combat.

Salamanders went up in points

Flamers/Pinkhorrors went up 20pts and Gaunt summoner can only do 5 horrors now, not 10 

[Mcprowlington]

On 7/16/2020 at 5:30 PM, Rhivan said:

It's Lelith Hesperax. The barbs in her hair is a trademark of her, as well as the knife from a few weeks ago is a Dark Eldar Wych knife 1 for 1. Only difference is a bit of cloth tied to it (which lines up with the Incubus cloth). Finally the gauntlet has the distinct dark eldar style and even the little knuckle studs. 

 hairbarbs and gloves. I don't think they have any reason to give dark eldar anything nor would they have multiple rumor engines featuring the same character model. They're also just never that obvious when it comes to redoing characters.

Either way is a dub for me though since dark eldar is my 40k army. I've just been playing them long enough to know never to get my hopes up

Edited July 20, 2020 by Mcprowlington

[Graywater]

7 hours ago, Chumphammer said:

With the FAQs up, some of the more problematic things just got nerfed

Pentifx Elite is now no longer a +1AS, its a Reroll 1's in combat.

Salamanders went up in points

Flamers/Pinkhorrors went up 20pts and Gaunt summoner can only do 5 horrors now, not 10 

petrifex change is big, though i don't think our army matched too poorly against them before. The tzeentch changes are a big deal. Seeing salamanders go up is good, but wouldve liked to see kroak go up too. 

Not much seemed too impactful for older books. Wouldve been nice to see some larger point drops or some rule changes like we saw with petrifex. They explained in the community article that they made that change to encourage exploring the book further than that one battalion which is clearly the best. They must know that petrifex isn't the only "clear choice" in existing books. (Looking at you hagg nar)

My personal take, I'm still wishing something wouldve been done with hearthguard berzerkers. Even just removing the horde bonus. That is the one army I routinely struggle against.

Edited July 20, 2020 by Graywater

[DJMoose]

Hey there folks.

Been prepping for a tournament coming up in August and yesterday I fought Cities Of Sigmar with some Steam Tanks.

During the game a question that came to mind is how does Pit of Shades work against units with random movement? I seem to recall some kind of a FAQ but I cannot seem to locate it.

Any ideas?

Edited July 27, 2020 by DJMoose

[Graywater]

10 hours ago, DJMoose said:

Hey there folks.

Been prepping for a tournament coming up in August and yesterday I fought Cities Of Sigmar with some Steam Tanks.

During the game a question that came to mind is how does Pit of Shades work against units with random movement? I seem to recall some kind of a FAQ but I cannot seem to locate it.

Any ideas?

Its not in the dok faq, and I didnt see it in the core faqs. It may be in some faction's faq but im not aware of it. i think having your opponent roll to determine the move characteristic once the spell goes off is reasonable.

[Chumphammer]

So, todays warhammer community section is on the Aelven Pantheon

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/07/27/the-aelven-pantheon/

Touches on Malarion, Alarielle, Teclis, Tyrion

And at the bottom, Morathi:

"Last, but not least, we have Morathi – the most underestimated of the aelven gods. Having anointed herself the High Oracle of Khaine, Morathi has cunningly given herself the power and influence of a god, without the title. With the Stormvaults open, and the Lumineth resurgent, just what is the High Oracle of Khaine up to? And what are her agents doing in the Eightpoints?"

But then this bit at the bottom: 
 

"We’ll have to wait and see to find out – but, perhaps, not for long. "

DoK 2.0 sooooon