Ben Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 Having read over this thread I’m surprised at all the hate the new rules are getting. My Cauldren Guard list sis getting a huge boost. Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine- Temple: Hagg NarMorathi -Khaine and Shadow Queen (600)- Lore of Shadows: MindrazorHag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (290)- General- Command Trait: Devoted Disciples - Artefact: Thousand and One Dark Blessings - Prayer: Blessing of KhaineHag Queen (100)- Artefact: Blood Sigil - Catechism of Murder - Prayer: Martyr's Sacrifice30 x Witch Aelves (300)- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives10 x Witch Aelves (120)- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives30 x Sisters of Slaughter (300)- Barbed Whips and Sacrificial Knives5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)Cauldron Guard (120)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1 Ive had to drop the SQ to a Hag on Cob but Little Morathi staying the the table makes up for it. The transform and charge alpha has gone from Morathi but you gain a 2nd ‘Never die” hero. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boar Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Ben said: Having read over this thread I’m surprised at all the hate the new rules are getting. My Cauldren Guard list sis getting a huge boost. I see it's mostly about unit that is not present in your list😉 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Boar said: I see it's mostly about unit that is not present in your list😉 Yeah maybe so. But zero mention in 10 pages of debate on unkillable Morathi being in 2 places at once she’s been turned up a couple of notches from what was already the best scroll in the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucentia Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 I suspect that's mostly because the Morathi update is fairly well-regarded, barring transformation trickery it's pretty much a straight upgrade from how she was being played before, and certainly I'm delighted to be able to use both of those lovely models at the same time! If anything the great Morathi update makes the changes to blood sisters more disappointing, as a warscroll that has pretty much always compared unfavourably to Witches in the majority of cases I'd imagine people were looking for a similar fine-tuning of their stats or a proper niche being established for them, when you could almost argue they got the opposite of that as they lost a lot of their ability to deal with high armour saves via mortal wounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graywater Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 24 minutes ago, Ben said: Yeah maybe so. But zero mention in 10 pages of debate on unkillable Morathi being in 2 places at once she’s been turned up a couple of notches from what was already the best scroll in the game. Morathi has been mentioned positively in several posts, as have thr improvements to blood stalkers. The frustration comes from the blood sister changes and the ironscale that has fallen flat on release. Between those poor scrolls and the temple, snakes seem to be in a worse spot than previous. You're correct in that lists like yours are no worse, and probably better. But for myself, I want to play snakes, and they're even more outshines by the elves. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutton Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 4 hours ago, Ben said: Having read over this thread I’m surprised at all the hate the new rules are getting. Because the giant update aimed at lifting up snake/bat builds ended up making those armies worse. Morathi is awesome...but everything else falls flat on its face. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chumphammer Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 5 hours ago, Ben said: Having read over this thread I’m surprised at all the hate the new rules are getting. My Cauldren Guard list sis getting a huge boost. Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine- Temple: Hagg NarMorathi -Khaine and Shadow Queen (600)- Lore of Shadows: MindrazorHag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (290)- General- Command Trait: Devoted Disciples - Artefact: Thousand and One Dark Blessings - Prayer: Blessing of KhaineHag Queen (100)- Artefact: Blood Sigil - Catechism of Murder - Prayer: Martyr's Sacrifice30 x Witch Aelves (300)- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives10 x Witch Aelves (120)- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives30 x Sisters of Slaughter (300)- Barbed Whips and Sacrificial Knives5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)Cauldron Guard (120)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1 Ive had to drop the SQ to a Hag on Cob but Little Morathi staying the the table makes up for it. The transform and charge alpha has gone from Morathi but you gain a 2nd ‘Never die” hero. Hi Ben, Like the list, solid and versitile as before and yeah losing SQ for HQ but new Morathi is worth it. Not got hate for new rules, its just different. I think people miss the 4+ MW from sisters but tbh I rarely got a high effect from it and since the unit gets it now but at end of comabt I dont mind, I was mainly in it for the 3A/ 3+/3+ Rend 1 its kinda a shame you cant squeeze 40pts to get the blade coven over normal hag for survivability What do you think to Blood Stalkers with Morathi? I think the issue atm is there are so many options people wanna try and tes tto see what works for them but ****** COVID ****** up everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chumphammer Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 Idea for a mixed list: Hagg Nar Morathi: 600pts – MindRazor Hag on Cauldron: 290 – General, Blessing of Khaine, Iron Circlet, devoted Disciples 30 Sisters of Slaughter: 300 – Bucklers 10 Witch Aelves: 120 – Bucklers 10 Witch Aelves: 120 – Bucklers 20 Blood Stalkers: 560 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhamslam Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 On 11/7/2020 at 11:48 AM, DJMoose said: The wording on the Turned to Crystal ability is awful. Depending on how you read it a Blood Sisters unit would either a) roll a 3+ for each model in their unit and inflict MWs or b) roll a 3+ for each model in the enemy unit and inflict MWs. My guess is the intent is each model in the enemy unit, which in that case is a HUGE nerf. So much for taking down a Mega-Gargant in one round of combat. I agree with everyone that Crystal Touch has been ruined, they couldve atleast kept it like they have for evocators. IF anyones interested in making them work still, i recommend taking a Shark (Allopex) from IDK with a net launcher On a hit roll of 3 and you only have to hit, not wound, the enemy unit cant pile in. Not good for monsters, but for other mass units, it might help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 (edited) Crystal touch could have become what it is now plus the bladed buckler MW rule on a 5+ (Reposte and touch the Enemy) So you can still deal MWs even if your unit gets shredded in melee. Thos would also be thematic Edited November 16, 2020 by JackStreicher 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xil Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 (edited) All they needed to do was a rule that let's us not modify the amount of crystal touches a unit can make... Instead they utterly destroyed it. What is the issue to write something like "the amount of attacks this unit can make with their crystal touch can never be more than written in the warscroll characteristics" Crystal touch was one of the rare tools of DoK to deal with high armor saves... Now we basically just have Morathi left for this Edited November 16, 2020 by Xil 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred1245 Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 19 hours ago, Ben said: Yeah maybe so. But zero mention in 10 pages of debate on unkillable Morathi being in 2 places at once she’s been turned up a couple of notches from what was already the best scroll in the game. If you go back we pretty much determined Morathi was fantastic in the first 3-4 posts and never brought it up again because we never really needed to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chumphammer Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 So, the stormcast Lib redeploy army that has a 2+ reroll...Whats peoples thoughts on dealing with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixieproxy Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 Finished my Morathi-Khaine today! I love this model, now for the big gal! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 @pixieproxy That's some great painting on the blue skin tones and on her face and eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graywater Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Chumphammer said: So, the stormcast Lib redeploy army that has a 2+ reroll...Whats peoples thoughts on dealing with it I'm just going to shame whoever brings that nonsense haha. In reality, I think this is one instance in which a big block of melee snakes is useful. Them + mind razor has decent enough rend with 2 damage each to put some hurt on the libs. Then, since the liberators don't do a ton of damage, you'll likely have a decent number of snakes left for crystal touches. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred1245 Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) 19 hours ago, Chumphammer said: So, the stormcast Lib redeploy army that has a 2+ reroll...Whats peoples thoughts on dealing with it It's honestly not super relevant. I doubt you'll even see it because of how few...cares...kharadron seraphon and tzeentch give about a list like that. They need a character to get up to 2+ and they need to not move OR redeploy in order to stand fast AND it has to be in THEIR movement phase so realistically this will only ever come into play if you let them set up on an objective uncontested or they get a double turn where they're already in combat with you. On the flip side, YOU getting the double turn before he can position to get the buff would end the game immediately. (If they keep the liberators in the sky to drop they BETTER be going second because you can just hold the double turn all game until they do and then they're stuck with a flaccid drop that loses instantly if you win the next turn roll). Even at 2+ rerolling it would be a shooting gallery for the big 3 and an easy win on objectives for most other melee armies. If you know for a fact that you'll be facing a list like this, the Morath+20 stalkers Khailebron list is a pretty good counter considering that you can still kill liberators pretty well, the snakes are fairly easy to protect and the list is fast enough to just outrun the Stormcasts if you need to. Edited November 17, 2020 by Fred1245 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 On 11/15/2020 at 8:13 PM, Ben said: Never die” hero Challenge accepted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chumphammer Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 There is a interesting list I like from "Strangeguy" on the whattsapp DOK group: Khelibron Morathi: 600 Steed of Shadows (or Mirror Dance) Bloodwrack Medusa : 140 -General, shadowstone, mistress of illusion, Mindrazor 10 Blood Sisters: 280 5 Blood Sisters: 140 5 Blood Sisters: 140 15 Blood Stalkers: 420 5 Blood Stalkers: 140 Temple Nest: 130 1990pts - 3 Drops, 4 Casts, 3 dispels Deploy Medusa back with 15 snakes (depending if you get 1st turn) Teleport 15 snakes into a good range for your target but still in range of Morathi-Khaines command ability. Shoot biggest threat. Cast Steed of shadows on Morathi-khaine Morathi-khaine and Shadow Queen can throw themselves forwards 14 & 16" giving you a good chance of clipping a unit you want to hold up Shoot big threat/opportunity in shooting phase I want to try this list 1st I think then also Bens list. Both I think are strong in current Meta 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) Both lists sounds cool! sadly I have too few snakes to test them ^^ Edited November 17, 2020 by JackStreicher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whispersofblood Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Chumphammer said: There is a interesting list I like from "Strangeguy" on the whattsapp DOK group: Khelibron Morathi: 600 Steed of Shadows (or Mirror Dance) Bloodwrack Medusa : 140 -General, shadowstone, mistress of illusion, Mindrazor 10 Blood Sisters: 280 5 Blood Sisters: 140 5 Blood Sisters: 140 15 Blood Stalkers: 420 5 Blood Stalkers: 140 Temple Nest: 130 1990pts - 3 Drops, 4 Casts, 3 dispels Deploy Medusa back with 15 snakes (depending if you get 1st turn) Teleport 15 snakes into a good range for your target but still in range of Morathi-Khaines command ability. Shoot biggest threat. Cast Steed of shadows on Morathi-khaine Morathi-khaine and Shadow Queen can throw themselves forwards 14 & 16" giving you a good chance of clipping a unit you want to hold up Shoot big threat/opportunity in shooting phase I want to try this list 1st I think then also Bens list. Both I think are strong in current Meta Its actually 2 drop. Its pretty similar to what I posted as viable, a few days ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chumphammer Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, whispersofblood said: Its actually 2 drop. Its pretty similar to what I posted as viable, a few days ago. Morathi is now 2 drops, as 2 models/warscrolls So its 3. Vyper Squad covers both in the battalion Same as Blade Coven is 2 drops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoollyMammoth Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Did we find out if there are points for the new Ironscale? I have a feeling like the app is going to update and there will be be new errata but no word yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMoose Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 21 minutes ago, WoollyMammoth said: Did we find out if there are points for the new Ironscale? I have a feeling like the app is going to update and there will be be new errata but no word yet. Ironscale is 140pts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whispersofblood Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Chumphammer said: Morathi is now 2 drops, as 2 models/warscrolls So its 3. Vyper Squad covers both in the battalion Same as Blade Coven is 2 drops You're right of course I keep forgetting that Morathi is a underworlds band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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