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AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion


Chris Tomlin

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On 8/9/2020 at 4:31 AM, Graywater said:

Long story short, morathi and snakes are both good, but you sacrifice a lot to fit them both in the same list.

yes but u can shot twice with snake and attack twice with witch. ok its expensive but u have a very great dmg potential💥

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7 minutes ago, Mojo said:

yes but u can shot twice with snake and attack twice with witch. ok its expensive but u have a very great dmg potential💥

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The problem with that is Morathi needs to be your general to use her command ability. This means that you loose out on a command trait. Her ability, while powerful on paper, might not be worth this trade off (especially in Hag Narr).

For melee units you can get a similar effect with the slaughter queen. It effects only one unit, but how often are you going to have two melee units in position to make use of Morathis ability. Blood Stalkers are considered to be one of our weakest units. While Morathis ability might help them out, it is probably not leading to an insane damage potential.

That beeing said, if thats how you want to play your daughters, go for it! Morathi is an awesome model an what would be more fitting than having her lead your army 

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2 minutes ago, foxicious said:

The problem with that is Morathi needs to be your general to use her command ability. This means that you loose out on a command trait. Her ability, while powerful on paper, might not be worth this trade off (especially in Hag Narr).

For melee units you can get a similar effect with the slaughter queen. It effects only one unit, but how often are you going to have two melee units in position to make use of Morathis ability. Blood Stalkers are considered to be one of our weakest units. While Morathis ability might help them out, it is probably not leading to an insane damage potential.

That beeing said, if thats how you want to play your daughters, go for it! Morathi is an awesome model an what would be more fitting than having her lead your army 

Morathi being your general also loses you the ability to make snakes your battleline, necessitating a 3rd unit of witches/sisters, leaving even less oomph with those units. Additionally, morathi only gets her command ability when she is in her little form. So you will sometimes be stuck with the choice of keeping her small to use the command ability when you really need her to transform to hold up an important enemy unit. Also, you can be forced to have her transform even when you don't want her to if your opponent damages her. For these reasons, morathi does not make a good general.

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15 minutes ago, Graywater said:

Morathi being your general also loses you the ability to make snakes your battleline, necessitating a 3rd unit of witches/sisters, leaving even less oomph with those units. Additionally, morathi only gets her command ability when she is in her little form. So you will sometimes be stuck with the choice of keeping her small to use the command ability when you really need her to transform to hold up an important enemy unit. Also, you can be forced to have her transform even when you don't want her to if your opponent damages her. For these reasons, morathi does not make a good general.

Yup, even more good reasons against Morathi as your general.

PS: We really need an agree reaction 😁

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57 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Then you have likely never played or bought a full skryre Army, especially one with max. unit sized Acolytes

Funnily enough, I bought my first 2 boxes of stormfiends Sunday for a Skryre army, though I'm planning on only running 5-10 acolytes and ill convert them. Need a change of pace to daughters.

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2 hours ago, Lord of the Isle said:

Particularly annoying as special characters are all but compulsory mechanically that they don't even work well in command! Bit of an immersion killer when every army has Morathi washing its dishes

so i play Morathi like an assassin ?

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32 minutes ago, Mojo said:

so i play Morathi like an assassin ?

Morathi is a bully. Her primary role is to protect your units by forcing your opponent to attack her instead of attacking units they want to. She is excellent at going in and holding up big, tough enemy units in combat that would destroy your other units easily. She can also force enemies to shoot into her. She can use her quick movement to get to backline units to act like an assassin, but her strength is in her durability. Outside endless spells and a couple instakill abilities, you can be guaranteed 2 battle rounds out of a healthy morathi. That should buy the rest of your army enough time to do what you need to in order to at least keep you in the game.

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5 minutes ago, Graywater said:

Morathi is a bully. Her primary role is to protect your units by forcing your opponent to attack her instead of attacking units they want to. She is excellent at going in and holding up big, tough enemy units in combat that would destroy your other units easily. She can also force enemies to shoot into her. She can use her quick movement to get to backline units to act like an assassin, but her strength is in her durability. Outside endless spells and a couple instakill abilities, you can be guaranteed 2 battle rounds out of a healthy morathi. That should buy the rest of your army enough time to do what you need to in order to at least keep you in the game.

ty !! Tomorrow i try dok vs city of sigmar ( full missile weapons +demigryph ). 

i play this list:

hagg nar 

morathi (mindrazor)

Slaughter on cauldron (general, devote disciples, iron circlet)

hag queen

30 witch (knife)

2x10 witch ( shield)

20 blood sisters

1 extra cp

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Mojo said:

ty !! Tomorrow i try dok vs city of sigmar ( full missile weapons +demigryph ). 

i play this list:

hagg nar 

morathi (mindrazor)

Slaughter on cauldron (general, devote disciples, iron circlet)

hag queen

30 witch (knife)

2x10 witch ( shield)

20 blood sisters

1 extra cp

 

 

Looks like a solid list. Getting morathi into the middle of all their shooting units will give your witches and snakes the freedom to target and choose who they wish to attack without the fear of being reduced by ranged damage for multiple turns.

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With the shadowhammer compact battalion, can the stormcast in that battalion use temple abilities if you have selected DOK as your allegiance(which grants the stormcasts "Daughters of Khaine" keyword from the battalion and the temples rules states that all warscrolls and battalions in a DOK army gain the temples keyword also. Or have i misread rules?

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20 hours ago, Graywater said:

Looks like a solid list. Getting morathi into the middle of all their shooting units will give your witches and snakes the freedom to target and choose who they wish to attack without the fear of being reduced by ranged damage for multiple turns.

i try it ^^

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Has anyone tried Ätherwings with sisters of slaughters? Let them attack the Ätherwings and then pile in the sisters from 6 inches away so they can't get hit. I did this with yetis and frost sabres in my ogres, and it worked great, although the yetis didn't really hit hard enough to make it work. Or do sisters just kill everything anyway so it's irrelevant?

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4 hours ago, Laharah11 said:

With the shadowhammer compact battalion, can the stormcast in that battalion use temple abilities if you have selected DOK as your allegiance(which grants the stormcasts "Daughters of Khaine" keyword from the battalion and the temples rules states that all warscrolls and battalions in a DOK army gain the temples keyword also. Or have i misread rules?

No, SCE units in battalion do not benefit from Allegiance abilities. It's also in DoK Designers Commentary.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/age_of_sigmar_daughters_of_khaine_designers_commentary_en-1.pdf
 

You get:

1) Liberators cont as Battleline so you have 4 (2x Liberators, 2x WE's)

2) All SCE listed in Battalion do not count into Allies points (but they are considered allies). So you have 400 points left, even Gotrek if you wished.

3) Battalion's CA works on Battalion SCE units (but not allied SCE units*).

 

Sadly ShadowhammerCompact is crazily priced at 170 and has huge required list that really limits how to build it. Minimum is 1030 points even with massive SCE point reductions.

Funny thing possible now is to have Morathi and Celestant-Prime(ally) in this list tho and you have 190 points left. Enough for Medusa/Hag to carry Temple ability (Khailebron / HaggNar) and maybe extra 90 of Prosecutors/Khinerai.

Khailebron temple, teleport/shift Morathi and mindrazor and drop Prime then shove them into thing(s) preferably in a way that getting to Prime goes trough Morathi.  Hope they kill and block enough so your small units get objectives and do enough shooting damage with SHC command. Unfortunately Prime is not eligible target for Command Ability as Ally. Khinerai can drop to objectives or help blocking Prime from counter attack (also look out sir works).

PS. Prime in DoK army can be interesting due +1 bravery to everyone and -2 bravery to enemies when dropped in combination with Mindrazor. But he works better as mobile artillery support with Cauldron due stacking with Avatar bravery. And in non Shadowhammer list )

Also, Sword Liberators seem less ****** - The Withering adds +1 to Wound so they become 3+/3+ or 2+/3+ against bigger things. Where Hammers would be 4+/2+ or 3+/2+ (Swords are tiny bit better in this case)

EDIT:  fixed points, added info.

Edited by Sapca
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42 minutes ago, Sapca said:

No, SCE units in battalion do not benefit from Allegiance abilities. It's also in DoK Designers Commentary.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/age_of_sigmar_daughters_of_khaine_designers_commentary_en-1.pdf
 

You get:

1) Liberators cont as Battleline so you have 4 (2x Liberators, 2x WE's)

2) All SCE listed in Battalion do not count into Allies points (but they are considered allies). So you have 400 points left, even Gotrek if you wished.

3) Battalion's CA works on Battalion SCE units (but not allied SCE units*).

 

Sadly ShadowhammerCompact is crazily priced at 170 and has huge required list that really limits how to build it. Minimum is 1030 points even with massive SCE point reductions.

Funny thing possible now is to have Morathi and Celestant-Prime(ally) in this list tho and you have 190 points left. Enough for Medusa/Hag to carry Temple ability (Khailebron / HaggNar) and maybe extra 90 of Prosecutors/Khinerai.

Khailebron temple, teleport/shift Morathi and mindrazor and drop Prime then shove them into thing(s) preferably in a way that getting to Prime goes trough Morathi.  Hope they kill and block enough so your small units get objectives and do enough shooting damage with SHC command. Unfortunately Prime is not eligible target for Command Ability as Ally. Khinerai can drop to objectives or help blocking Prime from counter attack (also look out sir works).

PS. Prime in DoK army can be interesting due +1 bravery to everyone and -2 bravery to enemies when dropped in combination with Mindrazor. But he works better as mobile artillery support with Cauldron due stacking with Avatar bravery. And in non Shadowhammer list )

Also, Sword Liberators seem less ****** - The Withering adds +1 to Wound so they become 3+/3+ or 2+/3+ against bigger things. Where Hammers would be 4+/2+ or 3+/2+ (Swords are tiny bit better in this case)

EDIT:  fixed points, added info.

Q: Do the Stormcast Eternals in a Shadowhammer Compact battalion benefit from the bonuses that apply to any temple of Khaine that the army belongs to? A: No. These units only benefit from allegiance abilities if they have the appropriate keyword – see ‘4. Allegiance’ on page 68 of the Battletome.

I assume this is what you are refering too? I was under the impression, if a battalion has an associated army allegiance(above what it is called) then all units in that battalion gain that army keyword, i guess this says, that is wrong? (sorry to make you clarify)

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3 hours ago, Laharah11 said:

I assume this is what you are refering too? I was under the impression, if a battalion has an associated army allegiance(above what it is called) then all units in that battalion gain that army keyword, i guess this says, that is wrong? (sorry to make you clarify)

That's what I thought also... Then AoS 2.0 and FAQ'******.

Apparently battalion rules are a mess (especially in Death and Orruks) :)

Old (DoK included) 1.0 battalions had Faction Name above it, new 2.0 battalions don't.  They have "Warscroll Battalion" in small text above name.

New battalions can be in any faction that's in the book where battalion is (this creates some Orruk funny situations I believe).

And battalions do not grant keywords anymore.

 

Sources:

Core Rules:

https://ageofsigmar.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2018/06/AoS_Rules-ENG.pdf

Page 15: Notice no mention of any allies or units in battalion gaining Keyword from Battalion.

Page 17: "A warscroll battalion can include allies. They do not count against the limit on the number of allied units you can include in the army"

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From core rules FAQ:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/8f9bd00c.pdf

Q: The rules say that a warscroll battalion can include allies and that they don’t count against the number of allies in the army. Does this rule only apply to battalions that share the same allegiance as the army, but that have units from two different factions (a battalion in a Daughters of Khaine army that has Daughters of Khaine and Stormcast Eternals units, for example)?

A: Yes. The faction a warscroll battalion belongs to is shown on its warscroll, above the title of the battalion. In addition, the battalion is assumed to belong to the Grand Alliance that its faction is a part of. Warscroll battalions that share the same allegiance as an army can always be taken as part of the army, and if they include any allied units, these units do not count against the limits on the number of allies the army can have (or against the points limit that can be spent on allies in a Pitched Battle). An army can include a warscroll battalion of a different allegiance to the rest of the army, but if it does so the units in it do count against the limits on the number of allies the army can have (and the points for the battalion and the units in it count against the points limit that can be spent on allies in a Pitched Battle)

TLDR; Warscroll Battalon itself has allegiance , not units on it.

---

In case of Shadowhammer Compact this boils down to question:

Why would I play Shadowhammer Compact with half of an army unable to benefit from allegiance abilities, temples, buffs/spells and near zero synergies between DoK and SCE?

See all DoK Prayers, Unit Abilities and Spells that are buffs... require DoK Keyword to work and Battalions do not grant that under current rules apparently.

I hoped they change this Battalion to something like Idoneth have with Sylvaneth. Or change one of temples to include allies.

Edited by Sapca
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9 hours ago, Sapca said:

"In case of Shadowhammer Compact this boils down to question:

Why would I play Shadowhammer Compact with half of an army unable to benefit from allegiance abilities, temples, buffs/spells and near zero synergies between DoK and SCE?

See all DoK Prayers, Unit Abilities and Spells that are buffs... require DoK Keyword to work and Battalions do not grant that under current rules apparently.

I hoped they change this Battalion to something like Idoneth have with Sylvaneth. Or change one of temples to include allies."

Thanks a lot for clarifying. Yes, that was the question i was asking basically, lol, pointless.

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Warband rules are up for AoS

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/08/13/new-warband-warscroll-previews/

I rather like that unit profile for the DoK warband. It's basically a Leader Hero with a small honour guard unit. It's neat and simple and covers two warscroll cards. It's the kind of thing that works in an AoS game rather than each one having their own unique profile. It's very similar to the warbands from warcry and how they have functioned thus far. 

I think its a sensible move for having a more characterful unit within a band. Also the leader is basically a Queen in function, just slightly different and I'd wager most were going to run her as a queen either on her own stats or as a "counts as"  any way. 


Overall without considering balance or power I'm pleased with them. 

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7 minutes ago, Overread said:

Warband rules are up for AoS

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/08/13/new-warband-warscroll-previews/

I rather like that unit profile for the DoK warband. It's basically a Leader Hero with a small honour guard unit. It's neat and simple and covers two warscroll cards. It's the kind of thing that works in an AoS game rather than each one having their own unique profile. It's very similar to the warbands from warcry and how they have functioned thus far. 

I think its a sensible move for having a more characterful unit within a band. Also the leader is basically a Queen in function, just slightly different and I'd wager most were going to run her as a queen either on her own stats or as a "counts as"  any way. 


Overall without considering balance or power I'm pleased with them. 

Something I've noticed too is morgwaeth's witchbrew is slightly different than our unnamed hag witchbrew. Morgwaeth allows a unit to reroll wound rolls, while our regular hags only allow reroll failed wound rolls. So morgwaeth allows a unit to reroll without being affected by negative modifiers to wound. That, plus the bodyguard unit, for 40 points is a heck of a steal in my opinion. 

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On 8/11/2020 at 3:51 PM, Graywater said:

Looks like a solid list. Getting morathi into the middle of all their shooting units will give your witches and snakes the freedom to target and choose who they wish to attack without the fear of being reduced by ranged damage for multiple turns.

i try the list. 

Morathi its very strong, its a good positional.

witch elf with cauldron and hagg its very stronk 

The problem is Medusai, totally  useless :/

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