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AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion


Chris Tomlin

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Graywater pretty much covered it. DoK are very very fast and can hit like a truck and if Hag Narr can take a punch too. Just make sure you keep things in your bubbles and dont over commit


 

In other news, made another Gotrek/Morathi list just now, basically based on:

1: Morathi getting in your grill T1
2: 10 BS getting in your Flank/Rear T1
3: HeartRenders able to drop down at anytime
4: Teleporting units everyturn while the enemy has no real army to aim at
5: Gortek Waddles up the board with his WE bubble

Morathi (Shroud of despair)
Gotrek
BloodWrack Medusa (General, Mindrazor, Shadowstone)
10 Blood Sisters
10 Blood Sisters
10 Witch Aelves (daggers)
10 Heart Renders

 

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So I'm having an interesting dilemma. I cannot make daughters fun to play at a casual level. Everything I do results in unfun games as I still steamroll over my opponents. I take non-max size units, I run a single hag, and I play without a temple just trying to make a close game, but it never is. I refuse to make purposely bad decisions because that's insulting to my opponent and then I'm trading my enjoyment away, but my games have been so one sided that neither me nor my opponent walk away from the table excited. My regular opponents are somewhat new, but we've been working together a lot on strategy, and they run strong armies (2 skaven, 1 FEC, Ironjawz, and 2 bonereapers). Its getting to the point that I'm considering shelving my daughters for the time being (which makes me sad, cause I like my snake ladies and they're the only army I currently have completed). Has anyone else run into this sort of thing/found a way around this?

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Honestly considering that you've got Skaven, Flesheaters, Bonereapers and Ironjawz none of those are "weak" armies. Daughters are strong, don't get me wrong, but they aren't the totally broken army they were at launch (a bit part of that being that all those other armies now have 2.0 battletomes). It more sounds like Daughters aren't the issue and that its more that you've got better game skills than your opponents.

 

I agree with not making deliberate bad choices and "playing to lose". Not only is it insulting, but it also can have the backlash that your opponents not only lose pressure to improve, but they also might pick up on some of your bad choices as "good ideas" because they see you doing them. 

Instead if you find that there's a skill difference and that you're the outlier there's a few things you can try:

1) As you are already, teach them. Help them advance and evolve their game and improve their abilities. This might be when you're playing them, but you could also agree to run tutorial/advice alongside a game between two of them, with you either helping one (simpler to understand and wrap your head around) or a bit of both. 

2) Play with a handicap. So you're better and you win more often. At the same time as working to help them improve you also want to have games where you don't have to "nanny" your opponent. So play with a handicap. A simple one would be to take less in points than them. Be upfront about this, its not cheating its simply reflecting that there is a skill difference between you and them that has been repeated and that you're taking a handicap to balance that out. 

In theory if you do both then steadily, over time, their game skill should improve to the point where your handicap starts to reduce and then you can do away with it. 

3) A 3rd option, which is a bit to one side, is to play more scripted/story based games. These might be fun things like 2V1 (you VS two of them allied together - eg you 3K points; them 1. 5 each); insane "200 points start within 12 inches everyone in the club plays FFA" etc.... Basically play some games where winning really isn't the intended idea and where its focusing purely on a social bit of fun seeing what happens. Heck perhaps if they all feel bitter you could do a "all VS daughters" battle etc... Basically just play around and mess around - sieges, ambushes; running battles; larger/smaller than normal etc.... Heck with the new Warcry expansion coming out soon there should be rules for all those other forces within it - you could do some warcry on the side now and then as a break from the core game. 

 

Shelving your army isn't a good approach, esp if you're proud of them and you've not got another that you WANT to pick up (or get off the shelf) right now. So work with your opponents and find a point where you're all able to engage with the game and have fun. The points and rules provide a known baseline to work from. Improving the game will always move that base-line; however if you find great imbalance at the local level, don't be afraid to tweak things to take account for it. 

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Thanks for your answers. I kinda like glass cannons armies but are they viable when not played Hagg Narr ? Also, what's the general strategy ? Go max unit size or MSU ? They look so fragile I wonder how they survive one round of melee if they don't strike first.

Is a Slaughter Troupe any good ? I like all the models in this batallion, and Khinerai look like decent shooters. I also love Warlocks, running them in units of 10 is the best bet it seems.

To answer earlier, yeah by Medusae I meant the Blood Sisters and other snake girls. What I don't really like model wise is just the Cauldrons, Khaine statues and such, they look kinda goofy to me. My meta is quite competitive, is it okay without them ?

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1 hour ago, Overread said:

Honestly considering that you've got Skaven, Flesheaters, Bonereapers and Ironjawz none of those are "weak" armies. Daughters are strong, don't get me wrong, but they aren't the totally broken army they were at launch (a bit part of that being that all those other armies now have 2.0 battletomes). It more sounds like Daughters aren't the issue and that its more that you've got better game skills than your opponents.

 

I agree with not making deliberate bad choices and "playing to lose". Not only is it insulting, but it also can have the backlash that your opponents not only lose pressure to improve, but they also might pick up on some of your bad choices as "good ideas" because they see you doing them. 

Instead if you find that there's a skill difference and that you're the outlier there's a few things you can try:

1) As you are already, teach them. Help them advance and evolve their game and improve their abilities. This might be when you're playing them, but you could also agree to run tutorial/advice alongside a game between two of them, with you either helping one (simpler to understand and wrap your head around) or a bit of both. 

2) Play with a handicap. So you're better and you win more often. At the same time as working to help them improve you also want to have games where you don't have to "nanny" your opponent. So play with a handicap. A simple one would be to take less in points than them. Be upfront about this, its not cheating its simply reflecting that there is a skill difference between you and them that has been repeated and that you're taking a handicap to balance that out. 

In theory if you do both then steadily, over time, their game skill should improve to the point where your handicap starts to reduce and then you can do away with it. 

3) A 3rd option, which is a bit to one side, is to play more scripted/story based games. These might be fun things like 2V1 (you VS two of them allied together - eg you 3K points; them 1. 5 each); insane "200 points start within 12 inches everyone in the club plays FFA" etc.... Basically play some games where winning really isn't the intended idea and where its focusing purely on a social bit of fun seeing what happens. Heck perhaps if they all feel bitter you could do a "all VS daughters" battle etc... Basically just play around and mess around - sieges, ambushes; running battles; larger/smaller than normal etc.... Heck with the new Warcry expansion coming out soon there should be rules for all those other forces within it - you could do some warcry on the side now and then as a break from the core game. 

 

Shelving your army isn't a good approach, esp if you're proud of them and you've not got another that you WANT to pick up (or get off the shelf) right now. So work with your opponents and find a point where you're all able to engage with the game and have fun. The points and rules provide a known baseline to work from. Improving the game will always move that base-line; however if you find great imbalance at the local level, don't be afraid to tweak things to take account for it. 

I'm right there with you on these. I like the third approach best because I like the narrative aspect of aos, however, my group is a group of magic converts that joined for the models and gameplay, not the story. They also tend to want to stick with the built in gameplans, as they feel that is how the game is intended to be played. So playing down points is out of the question for them. I've been doing a lot of teaching and some are catching on somewhat quickly, but it's a real grinding process. It's an interesting situation in which they want to improve and start to attend small events, but they're hating the process to get there, and the regular complaint is my army. Perhaps they just havent been able to see the strengths of their own yet.

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48 minutes ago, Aaranis said:

Thanks for your answers. I kinda like glass cannons armies but are they viable when not played Hagg Narr ? Also, what's the general strategy ? Go max unit size or MSU ? They look so fragile I wonder how they survive one round of melee if they don't strike first.

Is a Slaughter Troupe any good ? I like all the models in this batallion, and Khinerai look like decent shooters. I also love Warlocks, running them in units of 10 is the best bet it seems.

To answer earlier, yeah by Medusae I meant the Blood Sisters and other snake girls. What I don't really like model wise is just the Cauldrons, Khaine statues and such, they look kinda goofy to me. My meta is quite competitive, is it okay without them ?

Outside hag nar, they're still alright. Competitively speaking though, hag nar is so far ahead of the other temples that you really have to tailor your list around a specific gameplan for a different choice to be worth it. Investing heavily in a slaughter troupe battalion may actually be justification to go draichi ganeth for example. 

Units are run all or nothing. 30 sisters or wyches is very good and typical, with units of 10 added if you need to complete battleline. Heartrenders are almost always min size. Blood sisters are good in blocks of 10 or 20, but blood stalkers are our 1 poor unit. I've never run warlocks, so I have no input on them. Overall, the units are squishy until you incorporate the hag nar bonus to dpr, reroll the dpr with blessing of khaine prayer, heartpiercer shields for +1 to save in melee, and the +1 to save from blood shield on the cauldron. This puts a unit of sisters at a 4+/5+ rerolling. These bonuses are why the cauldron is so important. I agree the avatar looks goofy, so I converted mine. If your meta is competitive, you're gonna want one. 

Lucky for you, slaughter troupe is one of the competitive battalions we have. Sisters of slaughter and wych aelves are a toss up, but I like the sisters for the 6" activation ability. Add retreat and charge and the unit can be nearly anywhere you want it to be. Heartrenders are the og objective stealers. Popping down 9 away and then getting to move 6 on a 4+ after throwing javelins is super strong. Not only are you forcing your opponent to deploy and move in a way to account for them, but you have a chance to come down and take an objective anyways thanks to your move. I can't stress their importance enough.

 

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@Graywater you could always try swapping armies. Granted you could still lose with their army, however it might start to show that its the player not just the army which is important. 

 

As for points, I'm sure there are handicap systems in Magic the Gathering so the concept of a handicap shouldn't be new to them. The trick is dividing games into competitive/teaching and casual. If they are not enjoying the game suggest that they shift from a competitive to a casual (ergo one where you have handicap);  if you have a week where you don't want to be the teacher and they are feeling bad about losing then, again, bring out the casual handicap system. 

 

Basically do teach them about other modes. There seems to be a generation of gamers who are afraid to try things outside of the competitive; which is somewhat odd because magic the gathering has loads of non-competitive "serious" modes. Booster draft; unhinged etc...

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2 hours ago, Graywater said:

So I'm having an interesting dilemma. I cannot make daughters fun to play at a casual level. Everything I do results in unfun games as I still steamroll over my opponents. I take non-max size units, I run a single hag, and I play without a temple just trying to make a close game, but it never is. I refuse to make purposely bad decisions because that's insulting to my opponent and then I'm trading my enjoyment away, but my games have been so one sided that neither me nor my opponent walk away from the table excited. My regular opponents are somewhat new, but we've been working together a lot on strategy, and they run strong armies (2 skaven, 1 FEC, Ironjawz, and 2 bonereapers). Its getting to the point that I'm considering shelving my daughters for the time being (which makes me sad, cause I like my snake ladies and they're the only army I currently have completed). Has anyone else run into this sort of thing/found a way around this?

try to play with randomly generated armies (you and your opponent) that might be more thrilling to new(er) players :)

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7 minutes ago, Overread said:

As for points, I'm sure there are handicap systems in Magic the Gathering so the concept of a handicap shouldn't be new to them. The trick is dividing games into competitive/teaching and casual. If they are not enjoying the game suggest that they shift from a competitive to a casual (ergo one where you have handicap);  if you have a week where you don't want to be the teacher and they are feeling bad about losing then, again, bring out the casual handicap system. 

 

Basically do teach them about other modes. There seems to be a generation of gamers who are afraid to try things outside of the competitive; which is somewhat odd because magic the gathering has loads of non-competitive "serious" modes. Booster draft; unhinged etc...

Are there other modes? I'll be honest and say I never see the shop run anything other than straight up tournaments and I've never played the game myself. Maybe I'll suggest something along those lines then. The guys are very competitive (again from the magic scene at the shop) which I think is why they came upon the armies they did, and definitely why they focus on the competitive side. I mean, they organized a tournament a month after picking up their models. So that's where their heart lies. I think they're frustrated with being strong players in another system to not be strong players quickly in this one.

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What you need is a growth campaign for Warhammer- that's far more natural than a tournament first thing. Replace the world "tournament" with "campaign". If you "DM" the campaign you can balance things out between the win/loss. Plus increasing points by a little each couple of weeks or so can really help encourage people to buy and build and paint up new models and get their army growing. 

 

And yeah I'm confused why a shop wouldn't encourage the other modes - esp booster draft. Booster Draft is basically all sales for the shop and a nice way to "force" sales from the shop on the night (as opposed to people only buying off online discount stores or only buying singles). 

That said I've seen a few magic groups which are highly competitive focused and sadly its only ever good for those who keep winning lots. For those at the lower end of the scale they can be somewhat less enjoyable than random matches and more casual fun play. Your magic team are just finding this out for themselves.

 

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4 hours ago, Graywater said:

So I'm having an interesting dilemma. I cannot make daughters fun to play at a casual level. Everything I do results in unfun games as I still steamroll over my opponents. I take non-max size units, I run a single hag, and I play without a temple just trying to make a close game, but it never is. I refuse to make purposely bad decisions because that's insulting to my opponent and then I'm trading my enjoyment away, but my games have been so one sided that neither me nor my opponent walk away from the table excited. My regular opponents are somewhat new, but we've been working together a lot on strategy, and they run strong armies (2 skaven, 1 FEC, Ironjawz, and 2 bonereapers). Its getting to the point that I'm considering shelving my daughters for the time being (which makes me sad, cause I like my snake ladies and they're the only army I currently have completed). Has anyone else run into this sort of thing/found a way around this?

Warlord: "What is best in life?"
Conan: "To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women."



I think you are being too easy on them!  Being easy on them wont help them to improve their gaming ability. Walk through your games and lists after the games, tell them what they did well and not well. Help tweek their lists and teach them target priority.

I have a load of people that are "easy games" in my meta, but I play them often and then we chat for about 30mins-1hr after about their lists, what they were trying to do and where it goes wrong. Then I help tweek their lists and they are getting better.

I would rather raise the level of my "scene" than play to a lesser ability, then get stomped at a big tournament 

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21 minutes ago, Chumphammer said:

Warlord: "What is best in life?"
Conan: "To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women."



I think you are being too easy on them!  Being easy on them wont help them to improve their gaming ability. Walk through your games and lists after the games, tell them what they did well and not well. Help tweek their lists and teach them target priority.

I have a load of people that are "easy games" in my meta, but I play them often and then we chat for about 30mins-1hr after about their lists, what they were trying to do and where it goes wrong. Then I help tweek their lists and they are getting better.

I would rather raise the level of my "scene" than play to a lesser ability, then get stomped at a big tournament 

I absolutely do a lot of teaching and talking about the game. I think that's half of what I do with my time at the shop. The guys are getting better, but it's a painful process for all involved.

I have a very small community at my store (about 5 of us) and the next closest store is about an hour and a half away. Been there twice to have nobody show up there too. So while I want to push my group to be better, I have to balance my desire for high level play with keeping people in the hobby. With so few people, I'm prioritizing the fun with the learning process, which is what we're missing.

I place quite highly at the gts I go to, so I'm not worried about making myself worse or anything like that. I just want to have a place to go and play. I love this game in all its forms, so I'm willing to play narrative, matched, or whatever.

My issue is my group wants to play competitive matches play, and are adamant about that, but are also having a bad time with the army I'm using. Really I think the answer is for the guys to bear down and learn the game, as they have the armies and competitive card gaming background to do it. But I cant just say that as I dont want to lose the small community I have.

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2 minutes ago, Graywater said:

I absolutely do a lot of teaching and talking about the game. I think that's half of what I do with my time at the shop. The guys are getting better, but it's a painful process for all involved.

I have a very small community at my store (about 5 of us) and the next closest store is about an hour and a half away. Been there twice to have nobody show up there too. So while I want to push my group to be better, I have to balance my desire for high level play with keeping people in the hobby. With so few people, I'm prioritizing the fun with the learning process, which is what we're missing.

I place quite highly at the gts I go to, so I'm not worried about making myself worse or anything like that. I just want to have a place to go and play. I love this game in all its forms, so I'm willing to play narrative, matched, or whatever.

My issue is my group wants to play competitive matches play, and are adamant about that, but are also having a bad time with the army I'm using. Really I think the answer is for the guys to bear down and learn the game, as they have the armies and competitive card gaming background to do it. But I cant just say that as I dont want to lose the small community I have.

Do they study much?

I don't necessarily mean watch online games, but I find a lot of my play ability comes from knowing my what opponents army can do.  

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8 minutes ago, Chumphammer said:

Do they study much?

I don't necessarily mean watch online games, but I find a lot of my play ability comes from knowing my what opponents army can do.  

Yeah, they know what stuff does, at least what is played at the shop. Their problem comes from how those abilities can be used in a 3 dimensional way. They're used to the interaction between your stuff and your opponent because of their magic background, but there are more moving parts, so to speak, with aos and I think they're struggling adapting to that

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And that's often the part they can't read easily about online either. It's a whole area of wargaming that is VERY under developed in general. Which is surprising because whilst MTG has a lot of list talk, there's also lots of how to play with regard to how to use your hand to your best advantage and many well made deck design articles will also talk about how to play the deck. You can give a top end deck to a beginner and they will still lose more than they win (even against worst decks) because they don't know how to make the deck work - what cards to hold back; what damage to let through; what cards combo with others etc...

 

Wargames are the same; a list only takes you so far you've got to use it right. The downside is that, at least online, we've bred a generation or two of "its all the list or nothing." Furthermore because the game boards are unique and change between players, the process of describing how to play can be quite complex and require more words - which makes people less inclined to take the effort. 

It this self-perpetuates as a grey area. It's annoying because its most certainly an area where there is skill and where choices made do have an effect. How you setup the terrain (indeed what terrain you use); how you deploy; how you make your opening and following up moves. Stats might teach what targets are best with what; but you've got to get into range to make those abilities work. Plus you've got to contend with your opponent moving and messing up your plans (or playing right into them if you can learn to read the baord and your opponent to know what they might do). 

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Its kinda an interesting thing in my local meta that noone was used to fighting DOK till I started playing them. Even at a local 40 player event I was the only DOK.

I also noticed that DOK are dropping in tournaments now. Since LGT on Sept 14th, DOK have had only 3 top 3 places, and 2 were 3rd. (Graywater and myself) 

When I faced people here, they woefully underestimated how much damage output the army can throw out

And yeah, I find people do not think ahead with their movement, or they rush. Or they have 1 plan they try to stick to but that doesnt work vs every army and that option can completely change on a bad dice roll and they dont adapt. 
 

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There's certainly an art to learning how to fight different armies. Bonereapers are currently teaching a lot of people that charging forward blindly into combat doesn't work against an army that puts out solid damage but also is very tough to kill. It's going to force people to learn about target prioritisation; about how to gang up and take out specific instead of all targets and how to control the board to deny a slower, heavy hitting army board control. 

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22 minutes ago, Overread said:

There's certainly an art to learning how to fight different armies. Bonereapers are currently teaching a lot of people that charging forward blindly into combat doesn't work against an army that puts out solid damage but also is very tough to kill. It's going to force people to learn about target prioritisation; about how to gang up and take out specific instead of all targets and how to control the board to deny a slower, heavy hitting army board control. 

Totally.

I played vs them last night with a list I had helped him write and I only won on VP's 

I got the double turn 1/2, but I failed all my casts and buffs which made me move into defensive positions rather than run in, as from experience unless you have rend you aint gonna hurt them

20 SOS and 10 WE charged 20 Mortek and did 1 wound. Just so so tanky.

 

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Hey guys, competitively, aren't Witch Aelves just plain better than Sisters of Slaughter ? Reading their profile, they essentially have double the attacks if they forgo the buckler, and 50% more with a buckler. The advantage for the Sisters I can see is the 2" range, which fits better with a 30 girls unit I guess, to fight on three rows. 

Playing a Slaughter Troupe in Draichi Ganeth looks like the best option to give the definitive advantage to the Sisters though, but even then in a Ganeth army you can include up to 2 units of Witch Aelves in the same Batallion.

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2 minutes ago, Aaranis said:

Hey guys, competitively, aren't Witch Aelves just plain better than Sisters of Slaughter ? Reading their profile, they essentially have double the attacks if they forgo the buckler, and 50% more with a buckler. The advantage for the Sisters I can see is the 2" range, which fits better with a 30 girls unit I guess, to fight on three rows. 

Playing a Slaughter Troupe in Draichi Ganeth looks like the best option to give the definitive advantage to the Sisters though, but even then in a Ganeth army you can include up to 2 units of Witch Aelves in the same Batallion.

It is the 6" pile in which is the big seller.

With Slaanesh being so strong in the meta, 6" pile in means you ignore Locus (which procs when you charge) and get to control when they pile in and attack

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53 minutes ago, Chumphammer said:

It is the 6" pile in which is the big seller.

With Slaanesh being so strong in the meta, 6" pile in means you ignore Locus (which procs when you charge) and get to control when they pile in and attack

But when I charge I have to end up a half inch within an enemy unit, so I don't understand how it comes to play in the case you're describing ? I'm not familiar with how the Locus of Slaanesh works though, I never played against Slaanesh. But yes I forgot about the 6" pile-in, I can see how it could be used in a counter-charge scenario, is there any other way to use this ? In a fight with more than two units involved perhaps ?

Also, I wrote this list to have a direction on what to acquire next year. I always like to start with a 1000 pts list before expanding from there. I don't know how well DoK fare at this points level though. Would this be solid ? I avoided Bravery debuffing shenanigans because there's a lot of Death in my store and anyway, GW decided Bravery didn't matter in AoS so... Here it goes: 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar

Leaders
Slaughter Queen (100)
- General
- Trait: Devoted Disciples
- Artefact: Iron Circlet
- Prayer: Blessing of Khaine
Hag Queen (90)
- Prayer: Catechism of Murder

Battleline
20 x Sisters of Slaughter (240)
- Barbed Whips and Blade Bucklers
20 x Sisters of Slaughter (240)
- Barbed Whips and Blade Bucklers

Units
10 x Doomfire Warlocks (320)
- Lore of Shadows: The Withering

Total: 990 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 70
 

 

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1 hour ago, Aaranis said:

But when I charge I have to end up a half inch within an enemy unit, so I don't understand how it comes to play in the case you're describing ? I'm not familiar with how the Locus of Slaanesh works though, I never played against Slaanesh. But yes I forgot about the 6" pile-in, I can see how it could be used in a counter-charge scenario, is there any other way to use this ? In a fight with more than two units involved perhaps 

  Hide contents

 

 

You're absolutely right. When it comes to charging, the sisters have to end within 1/2 inch. In a straight comparison on a normal charge, the wyches are clearly superior. However, the 6 inch activation can be used to do some major shenanigans. My favorite use of this is falling out of combat with one unit passed the unit I'm in combat with, to be just outside of 3 inches of a unit my opponent doesnt want me to be in combat with. Even though I retreated from combat, the sisters can still activate, and they can do it knowing that they will be able to hit the enemy before they are hit themselves.

Long story short, the movement and activation capabilities of the sisters give sisters of slaughter a place in a daughters of khaine army. 6 inch activations is a huge deal and allow you to participate in the activation wars, ignore bully units that lock you in combat, and slingshot all over the board. I personally dont even have any wyches, only sisters of slaughter, because I value their abilities over the killing power of the wyches so much.

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1 hour ago, Aaranis said:

But when I charge I have to end up a half inch within an enemy unit, so I don't understand how it comes to play in the case you're describing ? I'm not familiar with how the Locus of Slaanesh works though, I never played against Slaanesh. But yes I forgot about the 6" pile-in, I can see how it could be used in a counter-charge scenario, is there any other way to use this ? In a fight with more than two units involved perhaps ?

Also, I wrote this list to have a direction on what to acquire next year. I always like to start with a 1000 pts list before expanding from there. I don't know how well DoK fare at this points level though. Would this be solid ? I avoided Bravery debuffing shenanigans because there's a lot of Death in my store and anyway, GW decided Bravery didn't matter in AoS so... Here it goes: 

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar

Leaders
Slaughter Queen (100)
- General
- Trait: Devoted Disciples
- Artefact: Iron Circlet
- Prayer: Blessing of Khaine
Hag Queen (90)
- Prayer: Catechism of Murder

Battleline
20 x Sisters of Slaughter (240)
- Barbed Whips and Blade Bucklers
20 x Sisters of Slaughter (240)
- Barbed Whips and Blade Bucklers

Units
10 x Doomfire Warlocks (320)
- Lore of Shadows: The Withering

Total: 990 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 70
 

 

Are you limited to these models?

If yes, I would do a unit of 30 and a unit of 10. 

A lot of DOK infantry is cheaper at max size, so at 30 models you save 60pts.

Doomfire warlocks are "meh". Their shooting attack is only 10 inches, and they are 160pts.

Yeah, they can do a 6 mortal wound spell, but lose 1 model it goes down to D6....

I would rather run 2 x 5 and get two choices of DOK spell, as well as they need to kill 1 from each unit to lose the D6 - D3.

I would always take mindrazor. it is the best spell we have, even if just for the Rend-1

So you could go:

SQ: 100
HQ: 90
30 SOS: 300
10 SoS: 100
5 Warlocks: 160
5 warlocks: 160

Leaves you with 910pts so could get a unit of heartrenders

Now, if you are not limited by models, I would drop the warlocks and the SQ on foot.

Cauldron of blood is amazing for what it does, so could get that for  your general and hag. The avatar on it helps your damage/rend, and gives you the bravery increase and armour save, great with the SOS shields

Id then have a medusa with Shadow Stone. +1 to cast and reroll 1s is really useful to get mindrazor off. Her shooting attack is also pretty good also.

Hag queen on Cauldron of Blood - 300
Blessing of khaine, General

Blood Wrack Medusa - 140
Mindrazor, Shadow Stone

30 Sisters of Slaughter (Shields) - 300 
10 Witch Aelves (Knives) - 120

This is a total of 860pts.

for the last 140, you could take Some life takers of heart renders, both can be useful, and a command point or endless spell.

Or whatever else you might desire to support your forces (maybe even 5 Blood sisters for combat power)







 

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Ah thanks I see, so you can just move them for example 5" from an enemy unit in the movement phase, and still activate in the combat phase that way ? Then yeah I see how powerful that can be. No Fyreslayers fight first for example, as they're not in range to activate, and so on. Coupled with the speed of rerolling 1s to Run it's quite a threat distance without getting exposed. 

So you'd have to combo, like, I have one unit of WE charging the enemy unit, with my Sisters near behind. I activate the WE, the enemy unit activates and can only hit the Sisters, then I pile-in 6" and attack with my Sisters. I love these kind of things in AoS ! This army gets more interesting the more I look at it.

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