AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

[Thenord]

1 hour ago, Chumphammer said:

???

it is things to note for people facing them, not complaining. #Dontbeadick 

Hahahaha don't get sensitive now.

My comment was a swing at gw's crappy rule writing and people who still complain about DOK being op when I play a Medusa list against them..

[Graywater]

2 minutes ago, Chumphammer said:

Why the two mindrazors?

interesting only the 1 Witchbrew/Buff, Snakes with Morathi and no Battalion. 

Congrats on 3rd

2 mindrazors for redundancy.  I value that over any of the other lore spells. We had access to realm spells for flexibility in casting. 

This army has some clear issues that you point out: 1 hag is an issue, no battalion is an issue, and morathi I think is a trap.

More witchbrew is obviously good and I'd love catechism.

A battalion for a starting CP and another relic slot for shadow stone would be excellent-I failed mindrazor so much.

Morathi doesnt really answer anything that more sisters of slaughter don't. I was disappointed by her performance for most of the weekend. I had one game in which she did 2 damage all game.

Honestly I made this list to try to be a little different. I've been a bit disheartened by how much daughters have been "figured out". We have a clear best list or two, so I wanted to bring something with my own spin on it to be different while still being strong. I probably should get more sisters of slaughter, put the bloodwrack on a shrine, and get another hag instead of morathi. But I like her, the melusai, and the khinerai. And that's anthony Lawrence's list, and I dont want to just take his. On the flipside, Morathi and the heartrenders really mess with people's decision making and force them to make mistakes. 

[Chumphammer]

3 minutes ago, Graywater said:

2 mindrazors for redundancy.  I value that over any of the other lore spells. We had access to realm spells for flexibility in casting. 

This army has some clear issues that you point out: 1 hag is an issue, no battalion is an issue, and morathi I think is a trap.

More witchbrew is obviously good and I'd love catechism.

A battalion for a starting CP and another relic slot for shadow stone would be excellent-I failed mindrazor so much.

Morathi doesnt really answer anything that more sisters of slaughter don't. I was disappointed by her performance for most of the weekend. I had one game in which she did 2 damage all game.

Honestly I made this list to try to be a little different. I've been a bit disheartened by how much daughters have been "figured out". We have a clear best list or two, so I wanted to bring something with my own spin on it to be different while still being strong. I probably should get more sisters of slaughter, put the bloodwrack on a shrine, and get another hag instead of morathi. But I like her, the melusai, and the khinerai. And that's anthony Lawrence's list, and I dont want to just take his. On the flipside, Morathi and the heartrenders really mess with people's decision making and force them to make mistakes. 

Yeah, I feel you. And the realm spells really can impact a game. Atm I have been playing this and really enjoying it. Only played two games so far (both Won, top of turn 3 and 4) because I wanted to try something different and flexible. 

General:
Bloodwrack Medusa, Devoted Disciples, Shadowstone, Mindrazor

Hag Queen on Cauldron, Blessing of Khaine

Hag Queen, Catechism of Murder

Knight-Incantor

30 Sisters of Slaughter (Bucklers)

20 Blood Sisters

10 Witch Aelves (two knives)

5 Doomfire Warlocks (Steed of Shadows)

5 Doomfire Warlocks (Shroud of Despair)

Everblaze Comet
 

[Graywater]

I really wish blood stalkers were better or cheaper so I could run a temple nest list. The snakes are what got me into the army in the first place. I've been toying with a list that has no aelf battleline. It's clearly worse than lists that include the aelves, but it's different. There were 4 of us daughters players at da boyz and all of our lists were mostly the same with one unit different here and there.

[Chumphammer]

3 minutes ago, Graywater said:

I really wish blood stalkers were better or cheaper so I could run a temple nest list. The snakes are what got me into the army in the first place. I've been toying with a list that has no aelf battleline. It's clearly worse than lists that include the aelves, but it's different. There were 4 of us daughters players at da boyz and all of our lists were mostly the same with one unit different here and there.

Yeah. If they could be battle line and were better (like 6's do 2 MW or they can fire twice)

I would like it if Morathi was your general then snakes could be your battle line also, as makes sense with theme.

I have Stalkers sitting in a box doing nothing

[Graywater]

2 minutes ago, Chumphammer said:

Yeah. If they could be battle line and were better (like 6's do 2 MW or they can fire twice)

I would like it if Morathi was your general then snakes could be your battle line also, as makes sense with theme.

I have Stalkers sitting in a box doing nothing

Same on all accounts. My blood stalkers are about to lose their bows and become more blood sisters. Feels wrong having morathi in my army, but lead by some lonely medusa

[GreatWhiteNorthIronjawz]

Inspired by Chumphammer, planning to run this at LVO

hagg nar 
Medusa (general, shadow stone, mind razor)

hag queen (Blessing)

hag queen (Catechism) 

incantor

2 x 20 blood sisters
5 blood sisters

2 x 5 doomfire (withering and debating second spell) 

5 heart renders 

Dais Arcanum 

 

[Mark Williams]

1 hour ago, GreatWhiteNorthIronjawz said:

Inspired by Chumphammer, planning to run this at LVO

hagg nar 
Medusa (general, shadow stone, mind razor)

hag queen (Blessing)

hag queen (Catechism) 

incantor

2 x 20 blood sisters
5 blood sisters

2 x 5 doomfire (withering and debating second spell) 

5 heart renders 

Dais Arcanum 

 

Why not use Khailebron?

[GreatWhiteNorthIronjawz]

Maybe if bridge doesn’t get nerfed because the movement would be nice but hard to give up Hagg nar benefits and reliability. 

[Thenord]

Really curious ti hear how the 20 sisters work for you,. Been thinking about trying it myself, but I always feel like 10 gets the job done? But it's a really nice discount!

[Chumphammer]

10 hours ago, Thenord said:

Really curious ti hear how the 20 sisters work for you,. Been thinking about trying it myself, but I always feel like 10 gets the job done? But it's a really nice discount!

Personally, I have never lost a unit of 20. they have been smashed up hard, but never fully dead. They are a great unit, only big weakness was the points they gave to slaanesh

[Kramer]

On 11/3/2019 at 6:00 AM, InSaint said:

Looks like we might be getting some attention with the STD update. 😍

This picture doesn’t bode positive attention tho 😂

[Overread]

Dear GW - DoK needs new toys to deal with Slaves to Darkness new toys! 

[Chumphammer]

Speaking in Blood Stalkers, has anyone ever tried using 10 in one unit as character assassins?  10 with mindrazor, Catachism and witchbrew could read hurt turn 1 if the Catachism turns the 6s into 2 MW plus then other damage being rend -2 (and maybe 2 damage)

[Mark Williams]

12 minutes ago, Chumphammer said:

Speaking in Blood Stalkers, has anyone ever tried using 10 in one unit as character assassins?  10 with mindrazor, Catachism and witchbrew could read hurt turn 1 if the Catachism turns the 6s into 2 MW plus then other damage being rend -2 (and maybe 2 damage)

I think you could make a weird 1-trick pony army with morathi as a general and 2 units of 10 with some support units and heroes 

[Thenord]

26 minutes ago, Mark Williams said:

I think you could make a weird 1-trick pony army with morathi as a general and 2 units of 10 with some support units and heroes 

They dont get to do mortal wounds if Morathi uses her CA. Isn't mindrazor only on melee?

[Mark Williams]

2 hours ago, Thenord said:

They dont get to do mortal wounds if Morathi uses her CA. Isn't mindrazor only on melee?

I was thinking Mindrazor from a medusa, an avatar for +1 leadership, and Shroud of despair from morathi, with catechism of murder, on a unit of 20. Just buff the crud out of them and melt a target.

[Chumphammer]

I was thinking less relying on it or centering my army around it 

10 snakes is 280. Can do the turn 1 combo then just use them take out support heroes or units

[Graywater]

On 11/16/2019 at 12:30 AM, Chumphammer said:

Speaking in Blood Stalkers, has anyone ever tried using 10 in one unit as character assassins?  10 with mindrazor, Catachism and witchbrew could read hurt turn 1 if the Catachism turns the 6s into 2 MW plus then other damage being rend -2 (and maybe 2 damage)

Catechism, witchbrew, and mindrazor are all melee only, so the stalkers' shooting won't benefit from them. 

[InSaint]

Blood Stalkers Mortal Wounds procs on a 6+, not unmodified 6s. Any decent player will position their support hero within 3" of a friendly unit to benefit from Look Out Sir. This means you are hitting on 4+ and can never score a mortal wound on a 7+, except for the Krone who has a +1 to hit.

[Chumphammer]

On 11/14/2019 at 5:44 PM, GreatWhiteNorthIronjawz said:

Inspired by Chumphammer, planning to run this at LVO

hagg nar 
Medusa (general, shadow stone, mind razor)

hag queen (Blessing)

hag queen (Catechism) 

incantor

2 x 20 blood sisters
5 blood sisters

2 x 5 doomfire (withering and debating second spell) 

5 heart renders 

Dais Arcanum 

 

Looks interesting. No Cauldron though? that +1AS on snakes in great. 2 Units of 20 is scarey lol. I would maybe drop the single unit of 5 sisters for a screen of SOS or WE, just to give you a buffer  from say like 40 Buffed plague monks smashing into you. 

I am playing Blades of Khorne tomorrow with my list, and thinking of changing itt slightly. I dont think 2 units of warlocks are that needed, and for 160pts (plus 10 left) i can and something more flexible (since I thought the crossbows were 16inch, but they are 10)

Two options I am thinking of atm are both stormcast.

1: Knight-Incantor with Dais disk endless spell (140pts + 30pts)
Gives:
2nd person who can cast comet
2nd Auto dispel
2 lots of flasks.
Another caster to use realm spells (LVO)
With Dais, he can have a 2nd dispel, +1AS and 12" fly. Makes a great unit with mystic shield for a 2+ reroll AS unit that can fly 12" 

This can give me 5 dispels a turn (2 of which one shot auto dispels) 

2: 3 Vanguard Longstrikes (170pts)
24inch range (30 if not moved) can give me snipe capability to support the comet. 3 shots at 2+/3+, Rend -2, 2 damage is pretty good, especially 6's to hit being 2MW. Great way to finish a support hero/do extra damage when mixed with Comet.

Testing out the Vanguards tomorrow

******

So tested out Vanguards. They are ok, but didnt really shine through. Picked up a second Knight-Incantor to try next.

Also considering 3 Scourgerunner chariots

Edited November 21, 2019 by Chumphammer
update

[Chumphammer]

Faced against Ossiarch Bonereapers against last night.

We placed shifting objectives

He had:

Petrifex Elite

Arkhan the Black
Arcane command, empower nadirite weapon, Protection of nagash, reinforce battle-shields, drain mortality, mortal contract

Katakros (Big leader guy)
 

Mortisan Soulreaper – General
Mighty Archaeossian
Godbone Armour
Protection of Nagash

3 x 10 Mortek Guard

Mortek Crawler

Immortis Guard

The burning head

Balewind Vortex

Purple sun of Shyish

Umbral Spellportal

Main Obj Right flank
OB turn 1:

He went first, moving up to catch all objectives while moving the bulk forces into the middle. Magic saw a spell portal and purple sun get dumped in front of my Witch Aelves (WE) and Sisters of Slaughter (sos).

Shooting saw the crawler take 4 wounds off the Cauldron.

DOK Turn 1:

Witch brew went on SOS and Blood sisters (BS). I failed to cast Mindrazor (double 1, rolled to a 5) and Doom bolt (double 1…). I changed dice, and got 11 to cast Dais and then 7 to cast Comet but it was dispelled with Arkhans +2 to dispel.

Movement saw me pull the BS, cauldron, Medusa and SOS to the left and the warlocks, incantors and WE to the right.

Shooting saw the warlocks get 1 wound on Arkhan and everything else was out of range

Charging managed to get the warlocks into the flank of Arkhan (a mistake really), witch Aelves into the Mortek guard on the right. The snakes also went up the middle into the Immortis and clipping both units of Mortek guard. In middle/Right

Combat saw me lose 3 Witch Aelves, 3 Warlocks and 2 snakes, but took out half of both units of Morteks and the immortis out completely. DOK cap 4 pts.


Main Obj stayed on right flank and I won the roll off. Purple sun rolls high and clips the SOS, killing 5.

DoK Turn 2:

Mindrazor goes off onto the Snakes, comet goes off on the back field hitting most his army for 3MW, but he managed to do death saves on 2 wounds for both unit of Mortek guard and the Soulreaper. Catachism goes off on the snakes, and I put blessing on the cauldron (though snakes woulda been better with what came next) rune of khaine goes off on the hag and the cauldron woke up.

I put Mystic shield on the dais incantor from the warlocks and the 2^nd incantor dispelled Purple Sun.

Moving up, I pull the WE out of combat and onto the Obj, and the Warlocks out to the right board edge.

Shooting saw the cauldron kill 1 mortek guard, and the warlocks fail to wound Arkhan. Combat, the cauldron failed to charge the Mortek to the left of the snakes, but the SOS got into the Mortek on the right, with the Dais Incantor and Hag joining them.

Snakes went 1^st, piling into Katakros and the remaining center Mortek. They wiped out the Mortek and did took Katakros down to 5 wounds. He hit back with Arkhan, failing to wound the knight incantor. My SOS only managed to kill 1 Mortek (soooo tanky) for the cost of 3 of them back. Hag and Incantor did 3 wounds to arkhan. Katakros though, now in combat mode, killed 5 snakes, and that was me rolling well. Dok cap 4 pts.

OB Turn 2:

He cast predator but I shut down the rest of his magic with auto dispels bar Balewind vortek on the Soulreaper.

His healing got 6 wounds back on Katakros, fully heal Arkhan and bring back 6 Mortek on the right unit
Shooting saw him use the special shot on the Medusa (Roll 2d6 and use modifier. If equal to or greater than wounds its dead) and he rolled a 7 (-1 for wounds taken) and my general died. Yuk.

Combat saw Katakros only kill 2 snakes now his attacks were reduced, and the snakes took him off.  Arkhan targeting and killed the hag (which I shouldn’t have put in combat but oh well) and 5 SOS from the Mortek. SOS only kill 1 mortek again…(facepalm) and the incantor only 1 wound on Arkhan.

He caps 1 point

Comet isn’t in 5” of anyone
Obj moves to middle

OB wins the turn

OB Turn 3:

Predator is recast (since its target was medusa and it was killed, so was dispelled) after my foot incantor. Protection goes on Arkhan and he heals up again/adds more mortek.

He moved the far left start to move over the middle, but rolled a 1 to run so didn’t make it far.

Shooting sees the catapult hit the snakes but failed to do much.

Combat saw Arkhan do 3 wounds on the incantor, and 4 sos killed. I killed 2 Mortrek and fail to wound Arkhan. He caps 1 pt

DOK turn 3:

I leave comet there, using the warlocks to dispel the predator. Both incantors get dispelled by Arkhan.  Blessing and Witch Brew go onto the cauldron.

Movement sees the Cauldron move up to the left Mortek, and the snakes move on the crawler.

Shooting pips 2 mortek off from the Cauldron.

Combat sees the Cauldron take out the left Mortek, and the snakes the crawler. The dias then dies from the spirit hosts who roll 3 mortal wounds…

Combat sees 2 sos die for 0 mortek.

Cap 4 pts.

Obj stays in the center and DOK win the roll. We call it at this point, as he cant cap any points at this time to get enough points. I cap 4 again, with the cauldron and snakes going into whats left of the mortek and Soulreaper. Arkhan may get away this round, but hes then alone and down 16 – 7 on his turn 4.

Pictures:

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So, Things went well (bar some silly moves) but I still felt I was missing the Slaughter queens free attack and just felt the warlocks are Meh for 160pts. I also don’t have anything to drop to threaten areas.

SO, I came up with these two tweeks.

List 1 is a slight change, adding in 2 units of 5 heart renders for the cost of warlocks and Dais. Still gives me 3 casts/3 dispels.

List 2 is bit of a re write of the same format. Giving me only 2 casts and 3 dispels, but gives me an extra prayer and the SQ, as well as 1 unit of heartrenders to drop

List 3: Similar, but 1 knight incanter is now shadow warriors for deep strike, and a 2nd blood wrack medusa. Also general now on shrine

I think I wanna try list 2 next

List 1: 
Medusa - General, Devoted Disciples, Shadow Stone, Mindrazor

Knight Incantor

Knight Incantor

Hag Queen on Cauldron – Blessing of Khaine

Hag Queen – Catechism of Murder

30 Sisters of Slaughter – Shields

10 Witch Aelves – knives

20 Blood sisters

2 x 5 Heartrenders

Everblaze Comet


List 2:

Slaughter Queen – Devoted Disciples, Blessing of khaine

Medusa - Shadow Stone, Mindrazor

Knight Incantor

Hag Queen – Crimson Rejuvenation

Hag Queen – Catechism of Murder

30 Sisters of Slaughter – Shields

10 Witch Aelves – knives

10 Witch Aelves – knives

20 Blood sisters

5 Heartrenders

Everblaze Comet

List 3:

Medusa on Bloodshrine - General, Devoted Disciples, Shadow Stone, Mindrazor

Knight Incantor

Bloodwrack Medusa - withering

Hag Queen on Cauldron – Blessing of Khaine

Hag Queen – Catechism of Murder

30 Sisters of Slaughter – Shields

10 Witch Aelves – knives

20 Blood sisters

10 shadow warriors

Everblaze Comet

Edited November 28, 2019 by Chumphammer
3rd list

[Graywater]

The ability to come down and immediately threaten an objective anywhere on the board is so good. Your opponent has to account for them, leaving them out of position and messing with their gameplan, or you steal their objectives. I won't build a list without at least one unit of heartrenders. The shadow warriors are an interesting shout too. Hadn't thought of that. They dont have the 4+ objective steal with the extra 6" move, but they have more damage output on the turn they come down. Curious to see if that's worth the trade.

[Aaranis]

Hello all, I'm interested in eventually starting the army sometime next year after my Nighthaunts, but I've read the Battletome the other day and couldn't quite grasp the gameplay of the army. I've heard it was difficult to play but quite strong when played well, which is something I like in an army. Could someone please tell me what makes the army strong, and what are its weaknesses ? Also, model wise I love the Sisters of Slaughter and Medusaes models, are they any good ?

[Graywater]

4 hours ago, Aaranis said:

Hello all, I'm interested in eventually starting the army sometime next year after my Nighthaunts, but I've read the Battletome the other day and couldn't quite grasp the gameplay of the army. I've heard it was difficult to play but quite strong when played well, which is something I like in an army. Could someone please tell me what makes the army strong, and what are its weaknesses ? Also, model wise I love the Sisters of Slaughter and Medusaes models, are they any good ?

I'm curious who said the Daughters are hard to play, because that has not been my experience. I'd love to think the success of this army comes from player ability, and I do think that is an important piece to mastering the army, but the army is super strong on it's own. Certain units, abilities, and temples are so incredibly powerful that an average player can way over perform at events due to how efficient the army is.

Daughters is supposed to be a glass cannon army. They definitely have the cannon component down, but they are far from fragile. Sisters of slaughter or witch aelves with bucklers in hag narr temple with witchbrew and blessing of khaine has a 5+ save, and a 5+ DPR that they can reroll, and are then ignoring battleshock. That sounds like a lot, but those are just bonuses from a single hag, which you absolutely will take at least one, more likely 2. Also, pretty much every competitive army is from hag narr because making the DPR roll a 5+ within range of the general and rerolling all failed hits is super powerful.

Witches and sisters of slaughter are both very strong and a coin flip for which ones you use. Witches are a little more offensive, but I like the sisters cause of their movement shenanigans. When you say medusa, do you mean the actual medusa, or the melusai snake lady units? 

Long story short, daughters have excellent battleline that get up the board quickly, do incredible damage and can be built to mitigate their weakness (durability) quite easily. I really cant say much about weaknesses because I dont think we have any. I'd say mortal wound output we are not quite as high as others, but that's only if you arent taking blood sisters. We have incredibly efficient battleline that can blend through hordes or elite units through weight of dice, access to rend through spells or unit choices, some of the most flexible deep strike shenanigans around with heartrenders, can play around activation wars with sisters of slaughter and hero phase activations with a slaughter queen command ability, and have a truly unique bully unit in morathi. 

Edited December 3, 2019 by Graywater