AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

[Absolution black]

@foxicious many thanks for the advice, that list seems like something I would like to build, paint and play!

 

[tomcabator15]

20 hours ago, foxicious said:

@Absolution black I think at the moment it’s not as easy to give any final advice on meeting engagements since it’s still fresh and people still need to figure out what’s good and what’s bad. Also I neither own the GHB19 nor have played meeting engagement. That being said, I will still try to answer your questions:

 

 

1. If you choose a Medusa (or Bloodwrack Shrine) as your general, Blood Sisters become battleline in addition to Witch Aelves and Sisters of Slaughter. So you can use all three to fill out your battleline requirements.

    

2. I think both Witch Aelves as well as Sisters of Slaughter are viable, depending on the playstyle. I’d go with what you prefer visually.

    

3. Normally Heartrenders are seen as the better choice of the two, since they are more reliable and versatile than the Lifetakers. Might be different for meeting engagements, though.

    

4. If you go for the Medusa as the general without a Shrine keep in mind that she is very squishy. As InSaint pointed out that might not be as much of a problem in meeting engagements as in normal games, but still something to keep in mind imo.

    

5. So going with InSaint’s first impressions as well as your preferred units I would probably start with something like this:

Bloodwrack Medusa

 

Hag Queen

 

Hag Queen

 

5 Blood Sisters

 

5 Blood Sisters

 

10 Witch Aelves

 

10 Witch Aelves

 

5 Lifetakers

 

5 Lifetakers

 

 

 

This should give you enough units to play around with and will bring you up to exactly 1000 pts. I have chosen Lifetakers over Heartrenders here, because they fit into the list very well point wise and seem to be better in meeting engagements. Keep in mind, that if you want to build up to 2000 pts. Heartrenders would probably be the better investment, if you don’t want to get both.

 

 

 

@umpac There was a thread on that topic discussing the pros and cons of shields (https://www.tga.community/forums/topic/18324-daughters-of-khaine-witches-and-sisters/). If I remember correctly the consensus was that daggers are better for the alpha strikes, while shields are the better allround choice. I think both loadouts are viable and we see a mix of both in a lot of tournament armies. Ben Savva, who uses big units of Sisters of Slaughter to great success (and, according to his interview to The Honest Wargamer, also thinks they will surpass Witch Aelves in efficiency with the new GHB 😉) uses one unit of each. So I would say that’s not a bad place to start.

 

 

 

@tomcabator15 As already pointed out I can’t give too much advice on meeting engagements. Maybe someone more experienced might help you out. For now I would probably look at InSaint's first impressions for what to take in your list.

Nice, I think I will make many sisters of slaughter now that they cost the same as the Witch Aelves and the Heartrenders also seem very fun to use. Thanks

[Belper]

Updated list for GHB 2019

Morathi    480

Cauldron 330

Hag Queen 90

Hag Queen 90

30 Witches     300p

10 SoS 120

10 SoS 120

10 Blood Sisters 280

5 Heartrenders 90

Last 100pts I'm thinking any combination of 2 of Aethervoid Pendulum, Emerald Lifeswarm, or a Command Point.

With the new generic CAs being amazingly useful for Morathi, I decided to keep her in the list despite her maybe not being the most efficient use of the points. Our local area doesn't really use realm of battle (because it sucks) so she's not as strong as she would be with 7 extra spells to choose from, but she's still a uniquely survivable beatstick with good magic support. The endless spells are for if I'm in a position where I either don't need mindrazor for whatever reason (playing nighthaught or extra rend/damage being overkill) or if I don't need to transform morathi turn 1.

10 Blood Sisters over more SoS/WE because their mortal wound output is valuable and they do better unbuffed than SoS and WE do and as such are solid 'lone rangers'.

Only 5 heartrenders because I find that anything that can be done with 10 could probably have been done with 5. Also, I'm notorious for forgetting about them.

Aethervoid Pendulum over Purple Sun because it's easier to control and I don't need help killing hordes, I need help killing 2+ saves.

Emerald Lifeswarm because being able to restore even a handful of witch aelves/wound over the course of a game is pretty valuable.

[Chumphammer]

Managed to pick up 30 more Witch Elves, so going to try this list out:

Temple: Hagg Nar
Realm: Ghur


Slaughterqueen on Cauldron - General
Gryph-feather charm, Blessings of khaine, Devoted Disciples,

Bloodwrack Medusa 
Mind Razor, Shadowstone

Hag Queen
Catechisms of murder

Hag Queen
Marytrs sacrifice 

30 Witch Aelves (buckler)

10 sisters of slaughter

10 sisters of slaughter

20 Blood Sisters

5 Khinerai HeartRenders

5 Khinerai HeartRenders

Slaughter Troupe
 

Edited July 5, 2019 by Chumphammer

[Chumphammer]

Has anyone tried adding vanguard raptors (Hurricane bows)  in their lists?

 

Edited July 5, 2019 by Chumphammer

[Lucentia]

On 7/3/2019 at 8:59 PM, Chumphammer said:

Managed to pick up 30 more Witch Elves, so going to try this list out:

Temple: Hagg Nar
Realm: Ghur


Slaughterqueen on Cauldron - General
Gryph-feather charm, Blessings of khaine, Devoted Disciples,

Bloodwrack Medusa 
Mind Razor, Shadowstone

Hag Queen
Catechisms of murder

Hag Queen
Marytrs sacrifice 

30 Witch Aelves (buckler)

10 sisters of slaughter

10 sisters of slaughter

20 Blood Sisters

5 Khinerai HeartRenders

5 Khinerai HeartRenders

Slaughter Troupe
 

I would suggest swapping out Martyr's Sacrifice for Sacrament of Blood if you're using Hagg Nar, the ability to get one unit up to those re-roll hits a turn early can be extremely valuable.

I have not used vanguard raptors, they are a little pricey for a not very resilient piece, and I'd probably be more tempted by the Longstrikes than the Hurricanes, I've never really felt a pressing need for short range weight of fire in my DoK lists, whereas I can see the ability to plink a couple of wounds off of a supporting hero at long range providing something that DoK cannot generally do very easily on their own.

[Black Blade]

I have two of the major collecting boxes from last Christmas and an additional box of Witchelves/ SoS. 

Finally about to crack em open and get building however I have no idea which way I should build the kits given almost all of them have multiple unit options.

Should I build Witchelves or Sisters of Slaughter. 

Heartrenders or Lifetakers.

I am for sure building all my snake ladies with halberds because I want to take them as battleline to fill out my lists.

Pretty set for building the two chariots as Slaughter Queen and Medusa versions. 
 

Any tips for a new DoK player and I would appreciate. Kinda like the look of Khalibron if I take a temple at all. 

[Beastlord Rakarth]

If I was building my army right now, after GHB 2019, I personally would do everything as Sisters of Slaughter with bucklers.  Maybe keep a unit or 2 of 10 WE with 2x knives.  

IMHO, all the units and loadouts are useful for something - and that something will depend on your army list - but SOS w/buckler is the TAC winner in my book, even before the WE price increase.

(Of course, I'm a huge fan of the Slaughter Troupe battalion.  At this point I'm not sure I could play without it to be completely honest...so that certainly will taint my recommendation!)

[Belper]

16 minutes ago, Beastlord Rakarth said:

If I was building my army right now, after GHB 2019, I personally would do everything as Sisters of Slaughter with bucklers.  Maybe keep a unit or 2 of 10 WE with 2x knives.  

IMHO, all the units and loadouts are useful for something - and that something will depend on your army list - but SOS w/buckler is the TAC winner in my book, even before the WE price increase.

(Of course, I'm a huge fan of the Slaughter Troupe battalion.  At this point I'm not sure I could play without it to be completely honest...so that certainly will taint my recommendation!)

I generally see SoS as a second block unit. After I take 30 WE then I take 30 SoS. 

I also don't like large units of SoS with bucklers because they're pretty pillowfisted.

[Lucentia]

Yeah, I prefer SoS with knives to bucklers really, the extra defense is nice (and I understand the value of stacking it up with Blood Shields and potentially cover to get some real toughness out of them) but 2x 3+ 4+ attacks per model is a little on the weak side even if you throw up a bunch of buffs on them.

I like 30 blocks of either unit type with the knives, and 10 model screening units with the shields, but to be honest all the options are pretty good, I don't know that there's a stand-out 'right answer.'

Definitely take Blood Sisters over Blood Stalkers if you're looking for competitive play, the latter do not really stack up unfortunately.

For the Khinerai I would probably build 10 Heartrenders to begin with, they're a very versatile unit, whereas Lifetakers you want to build around more specifically (and even then are mostly at their best as the tax unit in a Cauldron Guard battalion...)

[Black Blade]

On 7/5/2019 at 11:28 AM, Chumphammer said:

Has anyone tried adding vanguard raptors (Hurricane bows)  in their lists?

 

I play Stormcast regularly. They kind of only work in SCE lists. Mostly because they get their deepstriking ability in faction. Otherwise they are a very slow, low output unit. They do shine in SCE though, as someone else said above. Longstrikes are basically better versions of Bloodstalkers.

Edited July 9, 2019 by Black Blade

[Black Blade]

As I sit here building my DoK army, struggling with the older kits mold lines... I wonder how I might paint my new DoK. What do you guys think looks best aesthetically? I'm thinking about Khailebron, but purple or red lacquered armor seems cool in my head too. 
 

Also thought I would paint the snakes like Morathi's scheme but wow that tutorial looks complicated to get that look.

[jhamslam]

So anyone hear the Ben Savva podcast about GHB changes?. Sisters seems to be the way to go apparently now that they cost the same. The 6'' pile in also helps us with activation wars and the sort.

So is the list

30 Sisters

30 Sisters

10 We

in a Slaughter Troupe

Or are 30 WE blocks still worth it?

[Kaleun]

9 hours ago, jhamslam said:

So anyone hear the Ben Savva podcast about GHB changes?. Sisters seems to be the way to go apparently now that they cost the same. The 6'' pile in also helps us with activation wars and the sort.

So is the list

30 Sisters

30 Sisters

10 We

in a Slaughter Troupe

Or are 30 WE blocks still worth it?

I cannot see a legit list there. Witch Elves arent out of the game. However Slaughter troupe with 2x30 SoS has become even more appealing now. The bigger issue is the price increase of the Hag Queen by 50%.

 

@Black Blade

everybody has a different taste of color combinations. Personally I find the dark skinned DoK pretty nice with red and gold. Check out your Battletome. There you can find inspiration. For even more pictures this forums gallery or pinterest.
My girls are of pale skin with blue colors.

[Black Blade]

16 hours ago, jhamslam said:

So anyone hear the Ben Savva podcast about GHB changes?. Sisters seems to be the way to go apparently now that they cost the same. The 6'' pile in also helps us with activation wars and the sort.

So is the list

30 Sisters

30 Sisters

10 We

in a Slaughter Troupe

Or are 30 WE blocks still worth it?

which podcast was that? Looking for the title so I can listen.

[foxicious]

5 minutes ago, Black Blade said:

which podcast was that? Looking for the title so I can listen.

It is the honest wargamer ghb19 faction reaction podcast for daughters of khaine. If you search for the honest wargamer on soundcloud you should be able to find it.

[Belper]

SoS trade a slightly longer pile in for 75% of WE output. I would never run 2 units of WE anymore but I also would argue that SoS simply don't do enough damage to be worth running 60.

 

I also personally think that the Slaughtertroupe is and has alway been wildly overrated.

[Lucentia]

I don't know about wildly overrated necessarily, it's a battalion with no real tax units, and in my mind the SoS 6" pile in and retreat and charge are some of the best movement mix-up rules in the game, being able to bounce in and out of combats and pile around onto key objectives and such is a very useful tool in the box.  It's not a game-changing battalion that's going to massively shake the field in every single game, but it has its value, I think.

[whispersofblood]

9 hours ago, Belper said:

SoS trade a slightly longer pile in for 75% of WE output. I would never run 2 units of WE anymore but I also would argue that SoS simply don't do enough damage to be worth running 60.

 

I also personally think that the Slaughtertroupe is and has alway been wildly overrated.

I think slaughter troupe is as good as people made it out to be. It was just wholly unnecessary given the overall strength of a witch based list. But if you're preference was for a more decision heavy playstyle I get the appeal. 

If people are correct in saying that ST is now a better build, then the points changes did their job. DoK are no longer a push models forward and win faction.

[Chumphammer]

I won my 2nd game with my new list yesterday, and Slaughter Troupe ability really helped.

I had a unit of 10 SoS stuck in combat with a blood thirster, and his Blood Secreator and slaughter priest was nearby. So I ran the unit out and started chasing them down. He couldn't chase me down with the thirster as the needed it to try and take some objectives back. 

 

[Beastlord Rakarth]

On 7/13/2019 at 11:29 PM, Belper said:

SoS trade a slightly longer pile in for 75% of WE output. I would never run 2 units of WE anymore but I also would argue that SoS simply don't do enough damage to be worth running 60.

 

I also personally think that the Slaughtertroupe is and has alway been wildly overrated.

Some in my gaming group have made similar arguments about the Slaughter Troupe but I just completely disagree with that assessment. (obviously, to each their own, this is my own opinion)

My mates believe the 6" pile in is a "replacement" for the Troupe because you can retreat with the SoS to 3.1" and then re-engage the unit via a pile in outside 3".  While it is very powerful, and leads to some pretty good tricks, (I use it quite a bit on it's own to dictate combat order) you're also losing out on the potential distance that can be gained by adding a 2d6" charge roll on top of the 6" pile in for the SoS.  The charge move in particular, does not state that the movement MUST be used to get closer to the charged unit either (like the pile in forces you to do) so you can use the charge roll to actually spread out, in order to be in range of auras you might not have been able to be in or block enemy moves.  Makes getting within 3" of a hag for a next turn Witchbrew much easier, especially later in the game.

This is of course, in addition to the obvious benefit that comes with a buffed SQ on COB and the ridiculous range/speed Heartrenders can achieve.  

 

As for the SoS not doing enough damage...well, to each their own I suppose.  I've found a lot of the time for me that the range of the whips evens out the attacks a bit, plus not being tied to being near a character or lose 25% of your attacks is nice too.

[jhamslam]

@Chumphammer 2K? what list were ya running?

[Chumphammer]

4 minutes ago, jhamslam said:

@Chumphammer 2K? what list were ya running?

Hagg Nar (Ghur) - 1980pts – 6 Drops

Slaughter Queen on Cauldron - General

Devoted Disciples - Glyphfeather charm - Blessing of Khaine

Hag Queen – Sacrament of Blood

Hag Queen - Catechism of Murder

Bloodwrack Medusa
Mindrazor, Shadow Stone

30 Witch Aelves-- Buckler, banner/musicians

10 Sisters of Slaughter - banner/musicians

10 Sisters of Slaughter - banner/musicians

20 Blood Sisters

5 Khinerai Heartrenders

5 Khinerai Heartrenders

Slaughter Troupe

[jhamslam]

Just now, Chumphammer said:

Hagg Nar (Ghur) - 1980pts – 6 Drops

Slaughter Queen on Cauldron - General

Devoted Disciples - Glyphfeather charm - Blessing of Khaine

Hag Queen – Sacrament of Blood

Hag Queen - Catechism of Murder

Bloodwrack Medusa
Mindrazor, Shadow Stone

30 Witch Aelves-- Buckler, banner/musicians

10 Sisters of Slaughter - banner/musicians

10 Sisters of Slaughter - banner/musicians

20 Blood Sisters

5 Khinerai Heartrenders

5 Khinerai Heartrenders

Slaughter Troupe

Wow no Morathi, thats a spicy list indeed

[Kaleun]

On 7/15/2019 at 9:31 PM, Chumphammer said:

Hagg Nar (Ghur) - 1980pts – 6 Drops

Slaughter Queen on Cauldron - General

Devoted Disciples - Glyphfeather charm - Blessing of Khaine

Hag Queen – Sacrament of Blood

Hag Queen - Catechism of Murder

Bloodwrack Medusa
Mindrazor, Shadow Stone

30 Witch Aelves-- Buckler, banner/musicians

10 Sisters of Slaughter - banner/musicians

10 Sisters of Slaughter - banner/musicians

20 Blood Sisters

5 Khinerai Heartrenders

5 Khinerai Heartrenders

Slaughter Troupe

Good list. I also think that 20 Snake ladies are superior to Morathi in general. Can you give us more details? Which lists did you encounter? Would you change something in your list? How did Slaughter Troupe exactly help you during the tournament games?