AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

[whispersofblood]

16 hours ago, Xil said:

So you basically tell me to always play Hag Narr. 

And where is the balance then when I am forced to play one specific thing at all times if I want to win? 

Mate you are banging on a drum no one wants to hear. I've been trying to tell people that bumping the cost of hags and witches will just force more Hagg Narr but no one wants to hear that, everyone wants their pound of flesh for DoK.

[Overread]

33 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

Mate you are banging on a drum no one wants to hear. I've been trying to tell people that bumping the cost of hags and witches will just force more Hagg Narr but no one wants to hear that, everyone wants their pound of flesh for DoK.

The problem is too many people get hooked on pionts being the only thing to balance with. I've said it as well, 90 witches and 3 hags is not impossible to fit into an army easily. If you bump the cost of it you've got to go REALLY high so that it can't fit into  a 2K army otherwise people will still take that same power block, they just wont' take much else besides it.

 

So it doesn't actually tackle the problem and actually makes the game less interesting for both players. 

Changing the powers; changing witch aelves to only benefit from either spell or prayer; changing hagnarr rules etc... those are where you can actually CHANGE the ability and its power in the game. Plus it means the combo still works, just not as well which is what most want. The DoK players want to keep fielding their models not field less; opponents just want a fairer power block. 

[DJMoose]

Every single army has their cheese. Every single army has their competitive units and lists. The real question is what are you  going to do about it instead of crying for points changes or FAQs? Just because DoK have prayers that can't  be dispelled means they need to be nerfed? A smart opponent would target Hag Queens at the earliest opportunity to remove their abilities from the equation. DoK can be durable or extra killy, sure. But they get that from all their synergies together. Remove that synergy and you have some very fragile units that can crumble from sustained losses.

Part of the game is learning how to adapt to what your opponent is fielding and react accordingly. I have never had a game where I  said "I lost" during the first battle round. It's not over until it's over. So if your opponent brings cheese, then outwit them by playing to win the scenario above all things instead of worrying about unkillable unit #25. I think the fact of the matter is so few people have played against DoK that they don't know how to fight against them, therefore cries of cheese and nerfing.

Edited May 13, 2019 by DJMoose

[Beastlord Rakarth]

Hi All,
I had a few questions about AOS and how some abilities work together. I'm trying to create a fun and different DoK army that people don't hate to fight and has some different flavor, but still want a couple of tricks up my sleeve that hurt 😜

THE RELEVANT ABILITIES:
Disciples of Slaughter (DoS) (Kraith passive ability)

Dance of Doom (DoD) (Slaughter Queen on foot)

Catechism of Murder (CoM)

Venom of Nagendra (VoN) (Kraith relic)

THE QUESTIONS:
1) Assume I have DoD prayer on my Kraith Slaughter Queen, what if I roll a 6 and trigger DoS after the first round of attacks? After those attacks happen, that would mean I have attacked twice in that phase. DoD states I can "pile in and attack twice" but I have already done so (because I attacked normally and then again with DoS). Does this mean I cannot attack again for a 3rd time and my Dance of Doom attack is essentially wasted? Or does the implication of the rule mean I can still attack again?

1b) Similarly, if I attack regularly, and then attack again due to DoD, but end up rolling a 6 after the second round of attacks to trigger DoS...do I get to attack again or is that also wasted since DoS references the ability to "attack a second time" and I've already attacked 2x?

2) Assume I have CoM on my Slaughter Queen and pop VoN. If I roll a 6 to hit, does that mean that I do 2d6 mortal wounds to my target?

3) Assume I have DoD up and I pop VoN. I believe the second round of attacks (since they are in the same phase) also would use the VoN profile, correct?

 

Thanks so much if you have any answers to the above!

[InSaint]

17 hours ago, Beastlord Rakarth said:

THE QUESTIONS:
1) Assume I have DoD prayer on my Kraith Slaughter Queen, what if I roll a 6 and trigger DoS after the first round of attacks? After those attacks happen, that would mean I have attacked twice in that phase. DoD states I can "pile in and attack twice" but I have already done so (because I attacked normally and then again with DoS). Does this mean I cannot attack again for a 3rd time and my Dance of Doom attack is essentially wasted? Or does the implication of the rule mean I can still attack again?

1b) Similarly, if I attack regularly, and then attack again due to DoD, but end up rolling a 6 after the second round of attacks to trigger DoS...do I get to attack again or is that also wasted since DoS references the ability to "attack a second time" and I've already attacked 2x?

2) Assume I have CoM on my Slaughter Queen and pop VoN. If I roll a 6 to hit, does that mean that I do 2d6 mortal wounds to my target?

3) Assume I have DoD up and I pop VoN. I believe the second round of attacks (since they are in the same phase) also would use the VoN profile, correct?

Thanks so much if you have any answers to the above!

1) and 1b), you can attack 3 times in your combat phase. This probably isn't FAQ because this temple is the weakest and so rarely used that it has not been disputed competitively.

2) Yes. It automatically deals 1 more hit that translate to D6 MW.

3) Yes. It is in the same phase.

[DJMoose]

Incoming picture spam!

More Pictures at Grimdark Live's facebook page!

Edited May 14, 2019 by DJMoose

[Jais]

On 5/13/2019 at 5:39 AM, Overread said:

The problem is too many people get hooked on pionts being the only thing to balance with. I've said it as well, 90 witches and 3 hags is not impossible to fit into an army easily. If you bump the cost of it you've got to go REALLY high so that it can't fit into  a 2K army otherwise people will still take that same power block, they just wont' take much else besides it.

 

So it doesn't actually tackle the problem and actually makes the game less interesting for both players. 

Changing the powers; changing witch aelves to only benefit from either spell or prayer; changing hagnarr rules etc... those are where you can actually CHANGE the ability and its power in the game. Plus it means the combo still works, just not as well which is what most want. The DoK players want to keep fielding their models not field less; opponents just want a fairer power block. 

My biggest fear, I'll agree, is that GHB19 doesn't address the power imbalance between temples/stormhosts/etc. As it stands, GW hasn't had a chance to balance those yet(as they were introduced in 2018) so let's just hope that it's a wee bit more advanced than model costs changes. Otherwise the other builds will be even further pigeon hole'd into playing the one temple that rules them all. I love my Kraith and have always repped it with success... that said with enough points increases I doubt I'll be able to be as effective as I am right now.  HaggNarr should be something like 'reroll shrugs of 1`  or something less impacting. As it stands the existing Khaninite Prayers benefit so much from Hagg Narr R3 and the shrug that the others are blown out the water. Here is to hoping GHB19  balances out stormhosts and not solely model costs~

Edited May 14, 2019 by Jais

[JonnyTheKing]

anyone have good ideas for Hag queen conversions as I don't fancy buying more cauldron kits just to get 3 of them?

[Mark Williams]

1 hour ago, JonnyTheKing said:

anyone have good ideas for Hag queen conversions as I don't fancy buying more cauldron kits just to get 3 of them?

The dark elf sorceress looks very much like a hag queen.

[DJMoose]

23 minutes ago, Mark Williams said:

The dark elf sorceress looks very much like a hag queen.

Exactly! I made this Hag Queen from the Dark Elf Sorceress.

[Ggom]

3 hours ago, DJMoose said:

Exactly! I made this Hag Queen from the Dark Elf Sorceress.

Does anyone give you grief that she has no cup of blood? The lack of cups of blood is one of the things I’m worried about for converting hag queens. Otherwise with dual weapons I’m afraid someone will argue that she could be a slaughterqueen or generic model.

 

[DJMoose]

As of yet I have not had anyone complain. All I have to explain is that it is a Hag Queen with Witchbrew and that is that. Most of the time as long as you explain what a converted model is at the beginning of the game then it is fine.

Edited May 15, 2019 by DJMoose

[Xil]

So... Two boxes of Doomfire Warlocks arrived today, yay

I much prefer the look of the Dark riders tho. Is anyone using dark riders as count as. Or some fusion of the kits? 

To what army do dark riders belong to anyway? 

 

Edit:

What is the most used weapon option for the warlocks? 

Edited May 15, 2019 by Xil

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Xil said:

To what army do dark riders belong to anyway? 

They are a part of the shadowblade faction which right now only has them and the old dark elve assassin as a unit option🙃

[whispersofblood]

18 hours ago, Xil said:

So... Two boxes of Doomfire Warlocks arrived today, yay

I much prefer the look of the Dark riders tho. Is anyone using dark riders as count as. Or some fusion of the kits? 

To what army do dark riders belong to anyway? 

 

Edit:

What is the most used weapon option for the warlocks? 

They don't have weapon options they essentially come with all their options, scimitars and crossbows.

[JackStreicher]

On 5/13/2019 at 2:39 PM, Overread said:

If you bump the cost of it you've got to go REALLY high so that it can't fit into  a 2K army otherwise people will still take that same power block, they just wont' take much else besides it.

That is if you only apply a nerf (in this case a point increase) on those two units. If you simultaneously decrease the points of blood stalkers and say Khinerai, the witches suddenly lose their status quo of being an auto-include.

Good balance is reflected by fitting point costs which leads to the biggest indicator of good balance: You really have a hard time deciding to pick which unit since they're all sooo good. (mission accomplished).
Currently you sadly skip most units since they just lack for their price tag.

@Xil concerning the counts as

Different topic!

Is there a "Unit roles and uses" thread already? If not I am going to start one since this can really help newbies (and regular players) understand how to use which unit. I'll need help though since I am not a DoK pro (I am switching among my armies on a weekly basis XD)

Edited May 17, 2019 by JackStreicher

[whispersofblood]

I've started preping for ghb19 in my mind, and working out new strategies based on what I think might survive. Not been too pleased with what I've come up with yet. Basically a completely different faction.

[Thenord]

8 hours ago, whispersofblood said:

I've started preping for ghb19 in my mind, and working out new strategies based on what I think might survive. Not been too pleased with what I've come up with yet. Basically a completely different faction.

Isn't it most likely just haggs and wyches that'll get a big point increase.? At least until we get a new book, wich isn't in the near future.

[Overread]

I would not expect a new Battletome for years and certainly not until AoS 3.0 came out. 

There is a small chance GW could release one earlier as they have done with Chaos 40K and Khorne AoS if they did a big model update, but I don't see Daughters getting a big model update - perhaps one or two new sculpts which are easy to slip in; but I don't see them getting a full rework. So AoS 3.0 is going to be the next mile marker.

 

 

That said we don't know what GW is going to do for new editions of AoS, though I'd wager considering how well a year of 40K has done in terms of Codex releases and total sales the pattern clearly works for GW, so I would expect them to follow through any major update that way from now on

[Thenord]

Got a 1500 point game tomorrow vs gloomspite gitz. Bringing a Temple nest, 2 haggs and 2*5 heartrenders. 

Any tips for playing gitz?? Cheers😊

[Jais]

8 hours ago, Thenord said:

Got a 1500 point game tomorrow vs gloomspite gitz. Bringing a Temple nest, 2 haggs and 2*5 heartrenders. 

Any tips for playing gitz?? Cheers😊

Read the fanatics warscroll, know they can pop out of a pre-designated unit at the charge phase. That unit will do rng dmg from low-insane. So maybe hit a 60 blob with some chaff first before you throw a sole medusa on foot at it and then watch her die to the fanatics before she can do her shooting attack deep in there.

If you kill a unit, on a 4+ they revive at the shrine with half dudes. Pretty crazy so make sure that the opponent isn't feeding you dudes just so he can take back his 'empty' home objective. Consider crippling the unit and not wiping it, like 30 grimghasts.

Morathi at -1 to hit is pretty rough be careful when using monster form morathi vs a blob if your intention is to kill a lot of em. Netters(-1) are pretty strong.

One of the rider units does d3 mortals on their charge. Make sure you chaff for it and then pile in after your chaff unit dies.

 

[Thenord]

Thanks for the input @Jais!

He ended up bringing a trog boss, 2 fungoid shamans, 60(!) stabbas, some boulders, trolls and the spider endless spell.

We played gift from the heavens, holding our own objective until buttom of turn 5 when he just godt enough stabbas within 6" of mine to take it and win. 

Fun game and I learn a few things. mostly I need more bodies, especially when facing horde armies. Need more/ better magic. Troggs hits like a f'ing truck, but so do Blood sisters with mindrazor (4 of them killed his trogg boss in one combat!).

btw. How do you guys protect your haggs/heroes from being snipe? had a lot of troubles with that because of his spells.

[Xil]

16 hours ago, Thenord said:

 

btw. How do you guys protect your haggs/heroes from being snipe? had a lot of troubles with that because of his spells.

In case of endless spells, you should try to screen your important models in a way that there is no more room to place his spells base in a such way it can threaden you Hags. 

For the rest you can only dispell with slaughter queen or Medusa 

[Thenord]

So, with a new GHB around the corner. What do people expect it to mean for our army? My guess is haggs will go up to 100-120 point, wyches maybe 110-120. cauldrons up by 20-40. And then I hope blood stalkers will get a point drop, down to 120 maybe so they're a little more viable?

[Lucentia]

It's hard to say, depends how hard they swing really, too many points bumps will make the army more focused on mono-builds, too few and it remains a competitive powerhouse, they've had plenty of time to theoretically playtest new points values, and versus newer faction with access to tools which work against DoK Shenanigans.  I'd say Witches and Hags will go up regardless of anything else, 120/300 same as Sisters of Slaughter would be my guess.  I could see most other stuff staying the same or thereabouts?  Perhaps Heartrenders up to 90 or 100 points, Blood Stalkers should certainly come down, but I don't know what would be the right spot for them.