AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

[Xil]

1 hour ago, InSaint said:

I deliberately left out the Slaughter Queen or she will be forced to take the Dark Sword aretfect as per the Draichi Ganeth temple requirement.

Ah, true. I thought the Hag was forced to take it.

That means it won't work at this point value as there is no way to fit in another SQ to put the sword on. 

[Xil]

@Ggom

I wanted to add some info on magnetizing Khinerai, as I just did mine. 

Don't use too strong magnets and place it underneath the spot where you glued the Khinerai to the base, otherwise you risk breaking the model from its base when trying to pick them up. 

As long they won't slide around in the box, the magnet is good enough, there is no need to have the model upside down in a box. 

 

[Ggom]

On 5/2/2019 at 10:49 AM, Xil said:

@Ggom

I wanted to add some info on magnetizing Khinerai, as I just did mine. 

Don't use too strong magnets and place it underneath the spot where you glued the Khinerai to the base, otherwise you risk breaking the model from its base when trying to pick them up. 

As long they won't slide around in the box, the magnet is good enough, there is no need to have the model upside down in a box. 

 

Uh oh that sounds lke a bad experience. Thanks for the heads up!

[Thenord]

Has anyone tried running a 20 unit of lifetakers? Looks like it could be fun in a khailebron list, buff them and throw them at the enemy?

[Lucentia]

I've run two units of 10 to modest effect, not tried one block of 20 yet.  I suspect it would be too difficult to fit 20 of those huge bases into anything worthwhile, even with Flying, sometimes it's hard enough just fitting 10 in.  I have found them quite handy as throwaway units for knocking out enemy screens though, 10 for 160 points, and if you buff them up they can knock out 20 clanrats etc.  in one round.  With so few attacks they really want the Witchbrew though, which can leave your other units vulnerable to Battleshock.

[Thenord]

Yeah, you're properbly right. Too bad tho, I really like their lore and the models. 

Btw. Just got all the models I ordered:

Devoted of khaine battleforce

5 boxes of melusai and a cauldron box. 

What do you vets recommend I assemble it as? 

Thanks! 😁

[Ggom]

17 minutes ago, Thenord said:

Yeah, you're properbly right. Too bad tho, I really like their lore and the models. 

Btw. Just got all the models I ordered:

Devoted of khaine battleforce

5 boxes of melusai and a cauldron box. 

What do you vets recommend I assemble it as? 

Thanks! 😁

I’m by no means a veteran, but as a newbie I’m planning to build and paint as I go. The next handbook is probably going to shake things up a bit based on all the comments I’ve seen, sommay not be wise to go all in right now.

My hope is that we don’t get nerfed into the ground and instead get some rebalancing/buffs on the less popular units. 

Edited May 6, 2019 by Ggom

[Thenord]

Agreed! That's the same thoughts Ive done myself and why I wont build the wyches, khinarai and two slugther cauldrons right away. 

I have a loooot of snake ladies so I really hope they become more viable after next GHB 

[Rhargar]

Hallo together, can you compare the new Slaanesh battle tome with the tome from the. DoK? Both armies are very fast, hits hard and have a very limited choice of units in their own battle tome. 

What do you think with your current experience is the "stronger" or more flexible battle tome? 

I think about to start either Daughters or Slaanesh, but I'm not sure which battle tome to choose. 

[Lucentia]

Obviously the Slaanesh book is fresh out so it's early doors, but it's quite an interesting comparison. They're similar armies on paper but in practice look to work quite differently.  Most DoK lists tend to build around including various ways to buff one unit into a formidable melee threat, and which unit those buffs go onto can change on a round by round basis, so you can manufacture the type of damage output you need on the fly.

Conversely the Slaanesh book doesn't really have too many unit buffs, and although a lot of their units are very fast and melee focused their base killing power is generally going to be less than the DoK can kick out.  But Slaanesh have a lot of options when it comes to heroes, movement and magical chicanery, summoning is going to be a key part of their toolkit I'd expect. 

Slaanesh is probably the more flexible tome, I'd say?  Neither book has much in the way of shooting options, but Slaanesh has more access to decent magic and their summoning allows you to bring in whatever units you might need mid-game.  As to which is stronger?  I think that's impossible to say right now, certainly DoK are a very strong army at the moment, but I think Slaanesh will certainly have their own competitive niche too.

[Overread]

Any army with free summoning in game (ergo where you don't prepay for it before the game) is far more flexible. It's one area of summoning that can be somewhat abusive even before you look at the scale of summoning possible within the army. Because it means that they can take a generic army that generates a lot of summoning and then summon in what they need to give them the edge in the game. Meanwhile armies with fixed composition can't adjust themselves on the fly. 

 

It's a bit like playing a fixed magic the gathering deck in several rounds against someone with a sideboard. The sideboard player can adapt their deck to suit yours whilst your deck is fixed. Of course a strong fixed deck is still strong, but its not as adaptable. 

[DJMoose]

Alright folks.  I have a tournament coming up in two weeks and these are currently the two lists that I have come up with.  I have had success with both lists, but I also have some issues with them.

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Bloodwrack Shrine (220)
- General
- Trait: Devoted Desciples
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Hag Queen (60)
- Artefact: Iron Circlet
- Prayer: Blessing of Khaine
Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer: Catechism of Murder

Battleline
20 x Blood Sisters (480)
20 x Blood Sisters (480)
20 x Witch Aelves (200)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives

Units
5 x Blood Stalkers (160)
5 x Blood Stalkers (160)

Battalions
Temple Nest (130)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 143
So this list has the Temple Nest battalion.  The huge benefit of this list is of course having a battalion makes this list only four drops.  I have had good success going first as Daughters of Khaine as it lets me put up buffs (especially witchbrew) first before my opponent goes, and then secondly have a higher chance of going first again in the second battle round.  Using the speed of my many snakes it lets me get an early hold on objectives and forces my opponent to react.  The downside is having to pay 320pts for Blood Stalkers, which do have their uses but are not the greatest use of points.

 

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Bloodwrack Shrine (220)
- General
- Trait: Devoted Desciples
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer: Blessing of Khaine
Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer: Catechism of Murder
Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer: Sacrament of Blood
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- Lore of Shadows: The Withering

Battleline
20 x Blood Sisters (480)
20 x Blood Sisters (480)
30 x Witch Aelves (270)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives

Units
5 x Doomfire Warlocks (160)
- Lore of Shadows: Shroud of Despair

Endless Spells
Quicksilver Swords (20)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 154
Now the biggest issue with this list is drops.  At nine drops I will most likely be going second.  Which is alright, but I just prefer to go first so I can buff my units before my opponent can do anything about it.  The large advantage with this list is more spell casting abilities and also more flexibility.  Three casts/unbinds will be helpful to give me options but also to help shut down opponents in the hero phase.  Also the advantage with this list is giving my opponent too many targets to worry about.

 

As much as I like using Blood Stalkers and the Temple Nest I feel like only having one spellcaster will hamper my effectiveness against other opponents.  Especially when I have to be prepared to face a variety of different armies.  But anyways, any feedback is welcome.

Edited May 8, 2019 by DJMoose

[Thenord]

I'd deffinetly go for list two if it's a tournament you want to try and place in. Even with my veeeeery Limited experience with DoK, I'm pretty sure the extra hagg, wytches and casting is gonna help you a lot more than the extra item, command point and lower drops. That beeing said, if you like your snakes and the theme of the army, list 1 is the go to. 

Again I'm not really experienced, but that's my 2 cents.

[InSaint]

@DJMoose Do you have Morathi?

I will highly recommend you to bring her. She used to be not worth her point cost but with the current meta of FEC Gristlegore AGKoTG Strike First Twice dominating the competitive scene, she is an amazing counter.

[DJMoose]

9 hours ago, InSaint said:

@DJMoose Do you have Morathi?

I will highly recommend you to bring her. She used to be not worth her point cost but with the current meta of FEC Gristlegore AGKoTG Strike First Twice dominating the competitive scene, she is an amazing counter.

Sadly I do not even have Morathi built.  While Morathi is strong, I suppose the main issue i have is for the same price as Morathi I can have 20 Blood Sisters.  Which right now seems like the better investment in points.

[Ggom]

How are folks building their witch aelves and avoiding duplicates? I’ve noticed that all the heads are interchangeable, although the hair has to stay the same for each body. I’ve found that with some slight chopping and green stuff some of the arms can be swapped around as well. Interested to see what you all have come up with! 

[Xil]

I only swapped the masks around. 

I am thinking about building a few of my Sisters of Slaughter with hair while trying to keep their iron masks. 

 

 

On another note, how do you avoid the MW of a Meteor endless spell, or how do you minimize losses effectively? 

[Ggom]

3 hours ago, Xil said:

On another note, how do you avoid the MW of a Meteor endless spell, or how do you minimize losses effectively? 

No idea, Only played 2 games so far, both at low points and no endless spells 😅

However, I imagine our 5++ rerollable fanatic faith helps there if you run Hag Narr and pick the defensive prayer (which I have done, and is pretty OP in low points much to the consternation of my buddies)

[Xil]

Played Khailbron, lost half my army to Mortal Wounds in one turn... Balanced 

[Lucentia]

Hah, I would probably not make too many cries of 'imbalance' when playing Daughters of Khaine, you're like to make people upset!

With the Everblaze Comet (and most endless spells really) the key is in not allowing the space for it to do damage.  The comet is particularly irritating because it has such a long casting range, it can be cast from outside of unbind range and still placed anywhere in a large portion of the board.  However, it's max damage per unit is 3 wounds, making it only really dangerous to low-wound count heroes like Hags and Medusae, so your best bet is to position those units so that the comet cannot be placed within 10" of them, and if that's not possible then certainly so that it cannot be placed within 5", as part of the danger is with the comet hitting twice in succession depending on the turn order.  After that you can just leave the comet where it is and move away from it in your next turn.

[Xil]

Oh yeah, whenever I play I wonder where that so called overpowered status is coming from. 

In this game I lost half my army, as said to MW. Most of the spells even map wide with no way to escape. And the shooting negated my Khailbron modifier because they just shoot at a freaking rock and kill me. The other half charged against a wall of 3+ rerolling armor and also 2+ rerolling ones. Tell me how in the world I should get wounds through with our abundance of Rend? 

Btw spells had - 1 for me on cast dice too. 

And I had to charge to get the objectives, there was no sit back and wait... 

 

Sorry for venting 

Edited May 12, 2019 by Xil

[InSaint]

1 hour ago, Xil said:

Oh yeah, whenever I play I wonder where that so called overpowered status is coming from. 

In this game I lost half my army, as said to MW. Most of the spells even map wide with no way to escape. And the shooting negated my Khailbron modifier because they just shoot at a freaking rock and kill me. The other half charged against a wall of 3+ rerolling armor and also 2+ rerolling ones. Tell me how in the world I should get wounds through with our abundance of Rend? 

Btw spells had - 1 for me on cast dice too. 

And I had to charge to get the objectives, there was no sit back and wait... 

 

Sorry for venting

Because you are not playing Hag Narr that grants you 5+ ignore wounds and mortal wounds. 

[Xil]

26 minutes ago, InSaint said:

Because you are not playing Hag Narr that grants you 5+ ignore wounds and mortal wounds. 

So you basically tell me to always play Hag Narr. 

And where is the balance then when I am forced to play one specific thing at all times if I want to win? 

[Mark Williams]

2 hours ago, Xil said:

So you basically tell me to always play Hag Narr. 

And where is the balance then when I am forced to play one specific thing at all times if I want to win? 

I think there are units that can help you deal with that without resorting to hag nar. Morathi is a very good option as are blood sisters. The avatar of khaine would help provide some rend as well. And I’m pretty sure warlocks have a spell that could apply pressure. Mind razor gives you some rend as well.

[Ggom]

I suspect if running large amounts of witches or sisters of slaughter hag narr and draichi ganeth are the way to go. Khailebron is designed for snakes. The other two get layered buffs on battalions and rules that really help the infantry.