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AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion


Chris Tomlin

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@Tel well price wise going witch or snake heavy costs roughly (very roughly) a similar figure (snakes might actually be a little cheaper). and both are very viable builds. So you can't go wrong either way. That said I often find that unless you're building for a very specific army and build, then having variety in your collection is a good thing.

 

@Souleater In general stabbing snakes are more popular than the ranged ones and the same is also true of the khinari. Basically even DoK ranged units are half close combat ones so sometimes going all into close combat can be more attractive. But remember even the "lesser" options are not bad choices by any means. Daughters is a small enough army range that there are basically no totally wasted choices. 

As for what to build a few thoughts:

1) If you are going to magnetize the Cauldron then nothing stops you magnetizing it so that the heroes can be on foot (on a base) or on a Cauldron. You just need to drill a hold into the base for a magnet same as on the cauldron (possibly adding some Greenstuff to the base so that you can drill into something before putting the magnet in - so that there's something to hold it in place - another option is to add a bit of scenery to the base). 

Even if you don't want to use magnets I would advise magnetizing the Avatar and heroes on a cauldron - helps a LOT with storage and transport. 

2) If you go all for magnets then you can get both the cauldron and the shrine in one go so you can pick and choose what you want (and with two kits chances are you won't need any if many more as they are expensive at a few hundred points each so you often won't take more than two of either at a time). 

3) I would go with;

a) Magnetic Cauldrons *2 (if you use magnets you don't have to) 
b) 1 Cauldron with Slaughter Queen and 1 Bloodwrack Shrine (if you don't magnetize, though I still strongly advise magnetizing the queen and avatar)

c) 20 Witch Aelves with Bucklers (there's a thread linked in the first post and my general maths theory is that bucklers are more durable - duel blades work great on a charge where they get first attack and look great, but for getting started take the bucklers and their save bonus to help out). I'd probably make these as a single unit with one hornblower and standard bearer 

d) 10 Bloodsisters which are fast and hit hard, a good heavy hitter for you in the early stages. The bonus here is that you can run them in two units of 5 and if you make the Bloodwrack shrine your general then they count as battline troops (which means you can keep your 20 witches in a single unit)

e) Khinari wise I would "personally" make 10 of each to get started; which gives you tactical variety and options. Otherwise 20 lifetakers. I'd likely expect to deploy them in units of 5 or 10. Their strength is in being able to swoop down mid to late game and either contest/secure objectives or go for blocks of isolated/vulnerable artillery/mages/archers. Of course a larger unit is more durable and dishes out more damage; but in the same token might prove harder to deploy (depending on how terrain dense your tables are) and also puts more of your choices in a single deployment. Meanwhile more smaller units are less durable, but you can deploy several at a time to the same location to support each other; or spread them out as needed; and you've less chance of limiting yourself as to where you can put them. 

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So I have a game tomorrow in a ladder league with a group of friends and i'm facing off against some dead boys for the first time. Top place has their list locked so I know exactly what i'm fighting against.

Opponent: Ghoul king on TerrorgheistX2
Ghoul King on Zombie Dragon

Arkhan allied in

10 crypt ghouls x 3

 

My list:

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
Slaughter Queen on Cauldron Of Blood (330)
Morathi High Oracle of Khaine (480)
Hag Queen (60)
Hag Queen (60)
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
20 x Witch Aelves (200)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
10 x Witch Aelves (100)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
10 x Sisters Of Slaughter (120)
- Barbed Whips and Sacrificial Knives
10 x Blood Sisters (280)
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)

Total: 1930 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 105
 

Unfortunately I don't have another 10 witches to make a blob of 30 but I think maybe the turn 1 command point will be an okay buffer if my opponent decided to go first and try to alpha out my witches.  The mission will be randomly determined the day of. My friend thinks that I should be worried about the constant summons with the GK's ability and his mobility but I feel like if he takes 1 misstep I can take out 2 of his GKs/and or Arkhan in 1 round with witches and combat Morathi. 

 

Thoughts? Should I be worried?

 

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I have a pile of regular dark elves and plan on using them as allies to give me a reason to dust them off once in a while. 

Does anyone else do this? I’ve used the cold one knights a couple of times, but now that the hero can use his general ability it might be a bit more useful.

Also, could someone please tell me the point value of the Celestar Ballista? I was thinking of using the rules for my old bolt throwers.

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Yep the only other transport tip is to consider adding some stonework or ruins to Khinerai bases, they are great models but they stand on their tails which are all plastic. Not just fragile, but the darn things wobble somewhat. Either way if you use magnetic sheets for your transporting, the Khinerai want to go back into foam rather than magnets (because all the magnet will do is keep the base still, the rest of the majority of the model will still move around lots - so foam keeps its still and stops it hitting/entangling with other models). 

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13 hours ago, Overread said:

In general stabbing snakes are more popular than the ranged ones and the same is also true of the khinari.

I see lots of people prefering Khinerai Heartrenders (the ranged version). See 5 posts above mine for example.

I wonder if there is a consensus in the community on what's better, or if the 2 versions serve different purposes (in which case I would see the point of having 5 Lifetakers and 5 Heartrenders).

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6 hours ago, Ravenborn said:

I have a pile of regular dark elves and plan on using them as allies to give me a reason to dust them off once in a while. 

Does anyone else do this? I’ve used the cold one knights a couple of times, but now that the hero can use his general ability it might be a bit more useful.

Also, could someone please tell me the point value of the Celestar Ballista? I was thinking of using the rules for my old bolt throwers.

Yup! But mostly executioners! They rock and fulfill the roll the snakes will one day fill in my list ;) 

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Wait I might have mixed up Khinerai! 

@Souleater yeah I mixed them up cause the stabbing snakes have spears and the ranged khinerai have spears too (ok javelins).

The close combat khinerai are the ones with hand scythes and are indeed less popular due to the fact that they are often operating beyond aura influence and only have 1 wound each on a weak save. So the ranged ones are often favoured as they can strike at distance and then retreat without taking damage, if they can swoop over difficult or walled terrain even better as then any ground close combat unit can't even reach them. 

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Folks really trash on Lifetakers but haven't themselves really tested them in different circumstances. Also, folks have too much of a hard on for Witch Aelves and then wrongfully compare pure damage output and points/cost efficiency optimizations without looking at Lifetakers utility.  Lifetakers are fantastic when you consider how versatile they can be for your different matches/opponents/goals. Esp at 80 pts. If they were battleline they'd be OP.

Lifetakers make amazing Chaff.
They're on 32s, spaced one inch apart,  for 80pts. If someone fights one unit as chaff, you can activate the next and 50/50 move your 6'' either over or back towards your models. Preventing your chaff from even dying. At the cost of 1 unit of 80 pts. When I fight IronJawz I use them as a screen for their turn 1 intense alpha strike. It's great, I will gladly sacrifice 80pts of a screen to keep my General and Morathi free from megaboss on maw-krusha turn 1. 

Lifetakers are amazing Alpha Strike.
Start with a unit deployed on the board, the bigger the better. Mindrazor, witchbrew, Catachlysm of Murder, Blessing of Khaine. Move your 14 and Charge em with rerolling 1s. You'll be hitting for 3 dmg, with -1 rend and 6s do more hits AND you'll 50/50 be able to retreat afterwards so on they're turn they are locked in their own territory and have to again fight your wall of damage while you board control.

Lifetakers are still solid at Objective Grabbing.
Use them like Heartrenderers, Turn 3 and your enemy has left a back line objective open? Free VPs. Or even better yet, they didn't and kept a whole battleline back out of fear of your 80pt chaff unit taking their objective. You've essentially made them sacrifice away one of their own units and chances are it'll cost a lot more than 80pts. That said, you can still attempt to drop in, charge, hit retreat and still own an objective by having more models within 6" even after your retreat. I've done it loads of times. Just make sure it's after R2 for rerolls 1's to charge. Cauldron Guard and Cogs helps loads here too.

Lifetakers are good at support hero Assassinations.
Use a block of 5 as a character assassin. Go kill the enemy 5pt hero. If they're not properly bubble wrapped, fly over their enemies and charge em. Give em a buff or two and that enemy support hero with no real save go bye-bye  ( Necromancer,  Hag Queen,  Branchwyches, etc.)

Edited by Jais
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Personally I really like the combo of Khinerai plus Shadowblade Assassins; the shadowblade itself costs the same 80 points and puts out much the same damage and is just as tough, but has the bonus of extra damage on heroes/characters. In addition the Assassin hides in a unit so you can reveal it at any point in its named unit (its one of the few bits of info you are allowed to keep hidden from your opponent during the game until the assassin is revealed*). It makes for a great way to double the power (and more against a hero) of the unit and gives you an added weapon against powerful isolated characters

 

*Of course if the unit its hiding in is killed off before you unveil it then you lose the assassin

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Hey there folks! Haven't posted anything in awhile as I've been busy trying to paint my many Daughters of Khaine.  If you're like me you want character models to be unique and identifiable in your hordes of elves and snakes. And sometimes Daughters are a bit harder to customize with their specific theme. Just thought I would share the usefulness of Drukhari and Druchii bits. I added a pauldron and gear belt from some Drukhari Hellions, and took the Draich from a Dark Elf Executioner and made it into my Gorgai's glaive. More to come soon; I have nine more Blood Sisters to make to complete my two units of 20!

 

(Surprisingly I did not have to pin her weapon.  I just made a hole in the sword blade big enough for the shaft of the polearm to fit inside!)

IMG_20181108_152248337_HDR.jpg

Edited by DJMoose
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27 minutes ago, DJMoose said:

Hey there folks! Haven't posted anything in awhile as I've been busy trying to paint my many Daughters of Khaine.  If you're like me you want character models to be unique and identifiable in your hordes of elves and snakes. And sometimes Daughters are a bit harder to customize with their specific theme. Just thought I would share the usefulness of Drukhari and Druchii bits. I added a pauldron and gear belt from some Drukhari Hellions, and took the Draich from a Dark Elf Executioner and made it into my Gorgai's glaive. More to come soon; I have nine more Blood Sisters to make to complete my two units of 20!

 

(Surprisingly I did not have to pin her weapon.  I just made a hole in the sword blade big enough for the shaft of the polearm to fit inside!)

IMG_20181108_152248337_HDR.jpg

That’s super cool! 

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The Witch Aelf Hag unit champions are basically indistinguishable from regular Witch Aelves if you build them as default, I've taken to using Sister of Slaughter heads but sticking the Witch Aelf hair to the back to make them stand up, it's a pain-free little conversion.  All the Dark Eldar kits have some fun knives/chain-flails/funky spikes which can be good for customising, though most of the arms are way bulkier than those on the DoK models so they're not a great match, fortunately many come wearing gloves or gauntlets to cover the size discrepancy.

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1 hour ago, Arkalid said:

Quick question about Blood Sisters:

2 x 10 units or 1 x 20 unit?

Personally one big unit of 20. There are not many things that can deal with that many Bood Sisters. Plus an 80pt discount for maxing out the unit.

Edited by DJMoose
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Hi

Thinking of picking up AOS again after a while off.  Main army Stormcast but with the Christmas boxes really tempted by the Idoneth and DOK boxes. 

Really tempted by DOK beucase1) Snake ladies are rlelay cool. 2) I like the Glass cannon melee army with a really nice support hero's (that isn't Khrone) and 3) the models look amazing, and could have some nice conversion options. An example I've used some of the Medusia for my Durkhari. 

My main worry though is that the models could be super fragile. The Kinerai look amazing but super fragile. Morthiai is an amazing model but I'm worried about the wings on other her small and big forms. 

Also as someone who struggles with painting, I've heard bad thinks about painting DOK, I understand a lot of exposed skin and tiny details. Though the snakes could be very nice to paint. You could go more colourful with the tails and do for real-life snake colours. 

So I wanted to ask, is there any advice or tips you can give. to help me justify DOK over Idoneth. I know that DOK is rumoured to be due a nerf in January (correct me if wrong), but I don't care, I'm not great at strategy and my lucks never that good. I play an army because it's fun and looks good.

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1 minute ago, BionicRope64 said:

Hi

Thinking of picking up AOS again after a while off.  Main army Stormcast but with the Christmas boxes really tempted by the Idoneth and DOK boxes. 

Really tempted by DOK beucase1) Snake ladies are rlelay cool. 2) I like the Glass cannon melee army with a really nice support hero's (that isn't Khrone) and 3) the models look amazing, and could have some nice conversion options. An example I've used some of the Medusia for my Durkhari. 

My main worry though is that the models could be super fragile. The Kinerai look amazing but super fragile. Morthiai is an amazing model but I'm worried about the wings on other her small and big forms. 

Also as someone who struggles with painting, I've heard bad thinks about painting DOK, I understand a lot of exposed skin and tiny details. Though the snakes could be very nice to paint. You could go more colourful with the tails and do for real-life snake colours. 

So I wanted to ask, is there any advice or tips you can give. to help me justify DOK over Idoneth. I know that DOK is rumoured to be due a nerf in January (correct me if wrong), but I don't care, I'm not great at strategy and my lucks never that good. I play an army because it's fun and looks good.

My quick two cents: 

They are slow to paint, yes, but you can make a few shortcuts by spraying the girls white so you can just dilute some Reikland Fleshshade with Lahmian medium, paint that on skin, then Flayed One Flesh and Pallid Wych Flesh highlights. The harder parts are the bikinis and jewellery, but washes hide some of the imperfections. Stabby snakes are perhaps the easiest to paint. 

 

You definitely need a carry case for these models. Morathi's left small wing is brittle, right one is under hair + makes up her back. The big snake's wings are solid, as the parts are connected to the ribs, back (and each other), as well as to the hips, so there are many glue points. The biggest worry for carrying your Daughters around is actually that Cauldron with the Avatar standing on top. Magnetize the leader+Avatar, maybe even the shrine keepers. I don't own any Khinerai yet, so not sure about their brittleness.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Arkalid said:

My quick two cents: 

They are slow to paint, yes, but you can make a few shortcuts by spraying the girls white so you can just dilute some Reikland Fleshshade with Lahmian medium, paint that on skin, then Flayed One Flesh and Pallid Wych Flesh highlights. The harder parts are the bikinis and jewellery, but washes hide some of the imperfections. Stabby snakes are perhaps the easiest to paint. 

 

You definitely need a carry case for these models. Morathi's left small wing is brittle, right one is under hair + makes up her back. The big snake's wings are solid, as the parts are connected to the ribs, back (and each other), as well as to the hips, so there are many glue points. The biggest worry for carrying your Daughters around is actually that Cauldron with the Avatar standing on top. Magnetize the leader+Avatar, maybe even the shrine keepers. I don't own any Khinerai yet, so not sure about their brittleness.

 

 

The painting might not be too bad then, thanks. Yeha I I wanna go snake heavy. that might help.

I havent rlelay magnertsied beofre. But I thought I would have too. It's an expsnive set to buy multples of.  Using magents and pinning though is a good advice. Thanks. What sorta magnets would you reconmend? I got some 1mm ones but found they might be too small for Mairnes and the like, they might be better for Elf sized models.

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31 minutes ago, Arkalid said:

They are slow to paint, yes, but you can make a few shortcuts by spraying the girls white so you can just dilute some Reikland Fleshshade with Lahmian medium, paint that on skin, then Flayed One Flesh and Pallid Wych Flesh highlights. The harder parts are the bikinis and jewellery, but washes hide some of the imperfections. Stabby snakes are perhaps the easiest to paint. 

You definitely need a carry case for these models. Morathi's left small wing is brittle, right one is under hair + makes up her back. The big snake's wings are solid, as the parts are connected to the ribs, back (and each other), as well as to the hips, so there are many glue points. The biggest worry for carrying your Daughters around is actually that Cauldron with the Avatar standing on top. Magnetize the leader+Avatar, maybe even the shrine keepers. I don't own any Khinerai yet, so not sure about their brittleness.

This. But if you've got an airbrush the skin is a bit easier. Smooth coats from an airbrush with pin-washing does a good job on the skin. Mind you if you don't have an airbrush it's a heck of an investment for one army :)

The most fragile stuff are the Khinerai.  It's all down to their tails being what connects them to the bases. I've kept them as GW intended but I've seen some good conversions that use scenery to add stability. You can see some here:

https://aosshorts.com/showcase-tim-daughters-of-khaine/

 

Edited by zedatkinszed
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@Arkalid Currently many people think that GW will adjust some points/stats to make the powerhouse that is 90 witches with hag queens, a little less effective than it currently is. That being a very powerful block that is proving very popular at present. However in general there's a lot of synergy going on with Daughters (which can also mean a smart opponent can learn to snipe off some of the synergy units); but also a lot of nice internal battletome balance that results in a very tight army where there are not real outright bad choices. This means that there's already multiple ways to run the army and I would wager any change is going to be small rather than vast - ergo a tweak rather than an outright big change.

 

Esp since whilst the witch and queen system is effective its not unbeatable; this is't a death-star faction where the power combo is vastly beyond other armies to counter, its just a little ahead of the curve (accepting also that many of the armies are still without a proper battletome). 

 

As a result I would be honestly shocked if GW changed enough to make collections invalid. So I'd say that they are a very safe army to invest into right now. Furthermore the new Christmas boxed set is a great deal and ideal place to jump on board; either with one or two of them you'll have a great core to expand from. 

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