AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

[Scythian]

2 hours ago, Solaris said:

And what is the standard temple nest build? I know what units are needed for the battalion, but I'm wondering about the army composition. Cauldron, no cauldron? Max size blood sister units? Shrine? Witches? Khinerai? Which temple? What's the overall list?

Sorry for my ignorance, I just want to know how people run Melusai-centric lists and how they perform.

It’s not ignorance, you’re just new to Daughters. If you play the temple nest, take the Bloodwrack Shrine, 3 Hag Queens, 2 units of 20 Blood Sisters, 1 unit of 5 Blood Sisters to fill out your battleline, and finally, 2 units of 5 Blood Stalkers. Give the Shadow Stone to the Medusa on the Shrine and the iron circlet to one of the hags. Make sure the Hag with the circlet has Blessing of Khaine. The other two should have Cathecism of Murder and Sacrament of Blood. Use Hagg Nar as your temple for the 5+ Fanatical Faith save. Your Medusa must take Devoted Disciples for her command ability. Always strive to keep at least one model within range of the general to keep the 7” range for the 5+ save. Hope that helps.

[Rekmeister]

@Solaris First, welcome to the faction, and secondly, to add to what has already been said about running snake heavy lists - I would like to put forward that taking the Temple Nest battalion is a huge trap. Blood Stalkers are the only bad unit in the faction. Want proof? They cost more points than Sisters, and do considerably less damage, while also fulfilling a role that the army doesn't need. They are a ranged unit with 2 wounds, a 5+ save, and 2 average melee attacks; that is not a profile you want on your elite snipers. Then there's the facts that practically all the buffs in the army are combat phase only; and you can increase the number of their ranged attacks to make them better. They also cost twice as much as Heartrenders while doing a worse job at harassing the enemy and taking objectives. Taking two units of Stalkers and the battalion costs 450pts - that's a quarter of your army, almost the price of Morathi herself. While I love snakes and play a liberal amount myself; any list with 320pts tied up in 10 archers with 1 attack each is really pushing it. Blood Sisters really don't need the battalion to get any better, just follow the advice from @Scythian and run Hagg-Nar as your temple to give the sneks some resilience.

[Overread]

Fun (if disturbing) fact about running a snake heavy army - its cheaper than running a witchaelf heavy army in terms of £/$ of models you have to buy

 

Personally I always find it hard (esp now) to price a battalion into a Daughters' force. I almost feel as if the whole concept of command points and battalions would be best as its own point stat not combined with the unit points. It just seems that to add them in as core elements means leaving a lot of models off the table. Not to mention that even at 2K points its hard to take more than one battalion (unless you're running Morathi's battalion as a whole army theme and then you're well over 2K points to get there) 

 

 

 

Also am I the only person wondering if/when Daughters of Khaine will attract some Vampires who perhaps have broken away from Nagash. All the blood sacrifices they are only a stones throw from accepting the odd vampire here and there to feast upon the blood whilst the Daughters keep the beating hearts. 

[Scythian]

36 minutes ago, Rekmeister said:

@Solaris First, welcome to the faction, and secondly, to add to what has already been said about running snake heavy lists - I would like to put forward that taking the Temple Nest battalion is a huge trap. Blood Stalkers are the only bad unit in the faction. Want proof? They cost more points than Sisters, and do considerably less damage, while also fulfilling a role that the army doesn't need. They are a ranged unit with 2 wounds, a 5+ save, and 2 average melee attacks; that is not a profile you want on your elite snipers. Then there's the facts that practically all the buffs in the army are combat phase only; and you can increase the number of their ranged attacks to make them better. They also cost twice as much as Heartrenders while doing a worse job at harassing the enemy and taking objectives. Taking two units of Stalkers and the battalion costs 450pts - that's a quarter of your army, almost the price of Morathi herself. While I love snakes and play a liberal amount myself; any list with 320pts tied up in 10 archers with 1 attack each is really pushing it. Blood Sisters really don't need the battalion to get any better, just follow the advice from @Scythian and run Hagg-Nar as your temple to give the sneks some resilience.

Personally, I don’t use Temple Nest. It’s a HUGE point sink! I use Bloodwrack Shrine general, 3 Hag Queens, 3@ 20 Blood Sisters, and finally I have a Stormcast Knight Incantor for that valuable “Thanos Snap” on whatever nasty spell comes my way. I’ve tried the Temple Nest but my list can put out more damage than I ever could benefit from the mortals caused by lethal transfixiation.  Rekmeister is right. I wouldn’t use Temple Nest. If you want to, use the list I gave you. It works well!

[Rekmeister]

31 minutes ago, Overread said:

Personally I always find it hard (esp now) to price a battalion into a Daughters' force. I almost feel as if the whole concept of command points and battalions would be best as its own point stat not combined with the unit points. It just seems that to add them in as core elements means leaving a lot of models off the table. Not to mention that even at 2K points its hard to take more than one battalion (unless you're running Morathi's battalion as a whole army theme and then you're well over 2K points to get there).

Only battalion I am eyeing up is Slaughter Troupe, because charging 10 Sisters of Slaughter across the table at a Slann is always something I want to do, even if caught up in combat.  Even then, I think most of the desire to include it comes from wanting the satisfaction of running a battalion in the first place (and because I really want both my cauldrons to have an artefact).

Shadow Patrol has real potential to any sadists who want to build a 6 unit battalion which doesn't contain any heroes or battleline options. Being able to get multiple triggers from the Khinerai entering the battlefield is insane. Only problem is, like lots of things DoK, if you are good at using it, you will be told it is too overpowered at least once.

The whole battalion thing really sucks for us because our ladies take artefacts better than a lot of heroes, especially the shrines.

[Fyrm]

51 minutes ago, Rekmeister said:

The whole battalion thing really sucks for us because our ladies take artefacts better than a lot of heroes, especially the shrines.

This is kinda why I'd like to try out the Temple Nest, for the extra item. Also, I'd figure the Stalkers might be helpful to camp objectives? Or is that not worth it in games? 

[InSaint]

Did you guys see the Nova results? 

Excluding painting, DoK armies were ranked 4th, 8th and 9th place. Seems like DoK is fitting very well in the current meta, Tier 1 fraction. 

[Olincay]

14 minutes ago, InSaint said:

Did you guys see the Nova results? 

Excluding painting, DoK armies were ranked 4th, 8th and 9th place. Seems like DoK is fitting very well in the current meta, Tier 1 fraction. 

Stole this data from honest wargamer, clearly DOK is sitting in a real good place at the moment. 
 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Olincay

[Solaris]

@Scythian @Rekmeister

Cheers guys, thanks for your help. I know blood sisters and hagg nar are the most efficient option, but it doesn't really appeal to me in terms of how it plays. I'm instead looking at a khailebron list, which seems more fun. I also don't want to play the hardest list out there.

Keeping in mind that I don't want to change temple or remove the  battalion, how would you rate this list?

Bloodwrack shrine, general

Hag on cauldron

2x hag

2x10 blood sisters

2x5 blood stalkers

30 witches

5 heartrenders

Temple nest

2000 points, 1 CP, 6 drops

Edited September 4, 2018 by Solaris

[Rekmeister]

Well, what spells, prayers, and artefacts are you running?

I really like the feel of Khailebron, but have yet to work out how to run it without being markedly more vulnerable than Hagg-Nar. Have you considered grabbing some Doomfire's? They are the unit that makes the most out of deep striking as they can shoot and cast a 6 MW spell; alternatively you can do really interesting things with endless spells, as if you dump one in their deployment zone on T1  they can only throw it back at 1 unit. They also work really well against endless spells as if your opponent casts cogs you can deep strike the warlocks onto it and steal the double cast.

While I don't see anything wrong with your list; playing Khailebron is such a statement that I'd highly advise mastering it at 1k before buying an entire 2k list that might not play to it's strengths as best as it could.

[The World Tree]

On 8/26/2018 at 4:41 PM, Olincay said:

Finally finsihed a tester, only 89 left to go! *cries in insanity* 

Any CC welcome. 

How'd you paint that skin? It looks ace.

[Olincay]

12 minutes ago, The World Tree said:

How'd you paint that skin? It looks ace.

It's a custom wash i made consisting of  lahmain medium with Russ grey *i think* abaddon black and guilliman blue.

I then proceeded to spill the pot and lost about 1/3 of it all haha. 

[Aspirant Snaeper]

14 hours ago, Olincay said:

Stole this data from honest wargamer, clearly DOK is sitting in a real good place at the moment. 
 

As I sat here reading this post, my mind suddenly started replaying childhood memories of commercial taglines regarding toy firearms that shot foam projectiles... Curious...

 

 

[Overread]

FW must be burning the midnight oil or their email server takes a while to send out messages - just got an update that my pair of Bloodbowl assassins have shipped! Looking forward to seeing them in the flesh - er resin. 

 

 

In other news I'd remind Daughters players that I still need contributions to this : 

 

 

[redphlannel]

Hey guys, I'm pretty new to DoK and wanted to make a list that makes use snakes and Warlocks, since they're my two fav units in the army.  However, I agree that Stalkers and the Temple Nest are sadly lackluster, so I'm sticking with Sisters only. 

So far, I've come up with this list using Hag Narr: 

Bloodwrack Medusa, General w/Devoted Disciples, Shadow Stone, and Mindrazor.

Hag Queen w/Iron Circlet

10 Sisters of Slaughter

10 Blood Sisters x2

10 Doomfire Warlocks x2

5 Khinerai Heartrenders x4

Endless Spell ???

Shadow Patrol 

1970/2000 pts

It also leaves 30 pts for an Endless Spell, but I'm not too familiar with them and don't know one that will compliment the army.  Any advice or changes are appreciated. Also, I've already got 10 unassbled Witch Elves/Sisters and don't really plan to add more than that. Rather save that cash for more snakes if anything ?

[foxicious]

2 hours ago, redphlannel said:

Hey guys, I'm pretty new to DoK and wanted to make a list that makes use snakes and Warlocks, since they're my two fav units in the army.  However, I agree that Stalkers and the Temple Nest are sadly lackluster, so I'm sticking with Sisters only. 

So far, I've come up with this list using Hag Narr: 

Bloodwrack Medusa, General w/Devoted Disciples, Shadow Stone, and Mindrazor.

Hag Queen w/Iron Circlet

10 Sisters of Slaughter

10 Blood Sisters x2

10 Doomfire Warlocks x2

5 Khinerai Heartrenders x4

Endless Spell ???

Shadow Patrol 

1970/2000 pts

It also leaves 30 pts for an Endless Spell, but I'm not too familiar with them and don't know one that will compliment the army.  Any advice or changes are appreciated. Also, I've already got 10 unassbled Witch Elves/Sisters and don't really plan to add more than that. Rather save that cash for more snakes if anything ?

I feel like you are probably a little light on Hag Queens and a Bloodwrack Medusa without shrine might be a tad squishy. The thing with Shadow Patrol is it eats up a lot of points, nearly 1100 in your list, which doesn't leave a lot of room for other troops. If you are set on using Shadow Patrol and Snakes I would probably cut one unit of Blood Sisters and the Sisters of Slaughter. I would use the points to add two units of Witch Aelves, an additional Hag Queen and either increase the size of your left over Blood Sisters to 15 or add another Hag and put your Medusa on a Bloodwrack Shrine. Both options would leave you with 30 pts for potential endless spells. Then again I am also new to the daughters, so take everything said with a grain of salt ?.

Also, if you are set more on Shadow Patrol than snakes  @Aspirant Snaeper had an interesting concept for a Shadow Patrol list without snakes a few pages back. If you are ok with skipping the battalion, you could also look at one of @Scythian's snake only lists, cut a few snakes and add Doomfire Warlocks instead.

[Tasman]

4 hours ago, foxicious said:

I feel like you are probably a little light on Hag Queens and a Bloodwrack Medusa without shrine might be a tad squishy. The thing with Shadow Patrol is it eats up a lot of points, nearly 1100 in your list, which doesn't leave a lot of room for other troops. If you are set on using Shadow Patrol and Snakes I would probably cut one unit of Blood Sisters and the Sisters of Slaughter. I would use the points to add two units of Witch Aelves, an additional Hag Queen and either increase the size of your left over Blood Sisters to 15 or add another Hag and put your Medusa on a Bloodwrack Shrine. Both options would leave you with 30 pts for potential endless spells. Then again I am also new to the daughters, so take everything said with a grain of salt ?.

Also, if you are set more on Shadow Patrol than snakes  @Aspirant Snaeper had an interesting concept for a Shadow Patrol list without snakes a few pages back. If you are ok with skipping the battalion, you could also look at one of @Scythian's snake only lists, cut a few snakes and add Doomfire Warlocks instead.

^^What he said..... You definitely need some more Hags here. Some scenarios require hero to hold objectives. Witch brew is going to help keep your units in place, and don't forget that you will want to be able to put prayers out to stack on those units of sisters.

[redphlannel]

2 hours ago, Tasman said:

^^What he said..... You definitely need some more Hags here. Some scenarios require hero to hold objectives. Witch brew is going to help keep your units in place, and don't forget that you will want to be able to put prayers out to stack on those units of sisters.

Thanks guys.  I keep forgetting Witchbrew helps with battleshock too and I'll definitely find room for the Shrine. I guess my new question is how necessary/useful are the battalions? Having checked out @Scythian's list (which is amazing, that's a lot of snek) as long as you keep your number of units low, it shouldn't be a big issue as far as drops go. 

[Aspirant Snaeper]

@redphlannel I appreciate the mention from @foxicious. The one issue I noticed with my list that is especially glaring when looking at your list is the lack of protection to the Hero's you do have. The Look out, Sir! rule cannot be understated enough, especially since you've chosen the Hagg Nar temple over the Khailebron (just stating as an observation, not a criticism). You'll want your Blood Sisters up in the thick of it fighting, which leaves your Sisters of Slaughter as the only point of defense, of which they only need to take one casualty and your two Hero's become incredibly vulnerable to shooting. You also don't want to hold your Doomfire's back to give them (your Hero's) the bonus, either. 

You'll want to keep a battalion to get the artefact so you have at least two scoring Hero's in Places of Power. I would suggest reducing one unit of either Blood Sisters or  Doomfire's to 5 and using the points you save to include a larger unit of Witches (instead of the more points intensive Sisters of Slaughter). This way your Hero's can use the Witches as a more effective screen from shooting so they can continue providing benefits for as long as possible. Your list looks like it's trying to do too many things with the Blood Sisters and Doomfire's as they are now, and it might ultimately hurt you. I would suggest reducing the Doomfire's to one unit of 10 and one of 5, keeping the unit of 5 as a backfield support and screen unless you need to teleport them (save them for late game). Teleport your first unit of 10 to obliterate an enemy Hero, and then let the Heartrender's proc their extra rend in subsequent turns. Then your opponent will focus and sweat on your Blood Sisters but won't be able to cut the head off the snake since your Hero's will be padded while supporting them and after all that, they have a huge blob of Witches to look forward to.  

Side note: Having a second unit of 5 Doomfire's might also work if your opponent is skillfull with their deployment to prevent the 10-man unit from popping up in range of a critical Hero. 5 Doom's still have D6 Mortal Wounds, so they'll still do some damage upon arrival!

But this is just a what-if technical analysis. Ultimately, with practice, any DoK list can do great things as long as you know what your list can and cannot do. 

 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Aspirant Snaeper

[foxicious]

2 hours ago, redphlannel said:

I guess my new question is how necessary/useful are the battalions?

As Aspirant Snaper already mentioned the additional artefact will help you in Places of Power. That beeing said, a lot of high placing tournament lists seem to run either no battalion at all or Slaugther Troupe. So the daughters seem to be doing just fine without battalions, but that shouldn't deter you from playing one of the other battalions if you want to.

[redphlannel]

13 hours ago, Aspirant Snaeper said:

Side note: Having a second unit of 5 Doomfire's might also work if your opponent is skillfull with their deployment to prevent the 10-man unit from popping up in range of a critical Hero. 5 Doom's still have D6 Mortal Wounds, so they'll still do some damage upon arrival!

 

Thanks again for the pointers you guys! Hmm, I see your point with the 5 man Warlock units. It seems like trying to take 10 is also taking up a lot of points. I might just try a minimum Shadow Patrol, as that leaves a lot of room to work with. 

Now let's try Hag Narr with:

Bloodwrack Shrine w/ Devoted Disciples, Shadow Stone, and Mindrazor.

Hag Queen w/ Iron Circlet and Catechism of Murder

Hag Queen w/ Blessing of Khaine

Hag Queen w/  Sacrament of Blood

30 Witch Elves w/ Knives and Bucklers

10 Blood Sisters x2

5 Doomfire Warlocks x2

5 Heartrenders x4

Shadow Patrol  

Plenty of Hags, the Medusa has her death wagon, lots of harassment units, and a solid core. 

[Overread]

So my two Bloodbowl assassins have arrived! Curious to see FW products in resin in a blister pack (as opposed to the little bags they normally come in). 

The male assassin is a single chunk of resin! Quit impressive to see a model like it come out of a single casting with no additional parts! He's quite chunky in body, even compared to a Warlock so seems large and suitably "from anotherfaction" compared to Daughters (who are quite lithe and thin). 

The female is slightly thinner and a bit closer and made up of several easy to put together parts. 

They are also made on larger bases than the 25mm that Assassins come on, the female pose is easy to put on the base, the male "just" fits with the toes of both feet dangling over the edge. I've no regular assassin to compare them to for size/scale or comparison of overall detail, but I'd say these two work very well in their role! 

 

I'll get some photos later when I've got more time to show.

[VorpalPoolNoodle]

Last night I got a game in with the following list against Legions of Nagash:

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- General
- Trait: Devoted Desciples 
- Artefact: Shadow Stone 
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer: Catechism of Murder
Slaughter Queen on Cauldron Of Blood (330)
- Prayer: Sacrament of Blood

Battleline
5 x Blood Sisters (140)
5 x Blood Sisters (140)
20 x Witch Aelves (200)
- Sacrificial Knives and Blade Bucklers

Behemoths
War Hydra (180)

Total: 1190 / 1200
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 180/ 200
Wounds: 73
 

It was a blast! I did 12 wounds to a Terrorgheist in a single battle round with one unit of blood sisters! I killed the same unit of 30 skeletons TWICE in 1-2 combat phases each time.  A mindrazored Hydra ate a unit of black knights in the first turn and proceeded to make a real nuisance of himself the whole game.  All in all, a very fun time!

Also I managed to get a whole Hag Queen painted before the battle as well:

 

Edited September 8, 2018 by VorpalPoolNoodle

[Aspirant Snaeper]

48 minutes ago, VorpalPoolNoodle said:

 A mindrazored Hydra ate a unit of black knights in the first turn and proceeded to make a real nuisance of himself the whole game.  

*in his best teacher's voice* "What did you do wrong?" 

[VorpalPoolNoodle]

8 minutes ago, Aspirant Snaeper said:

*in his best teacher's voice* "What did you do wrong?" 

Oops! Well it's my second game with the army so mistakes are bound to happen. It was only mindrazored that one round and honestly it wouldn't have made much difference. An extra round of combat at best.