AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

[Aspirant Snaeper]

On an unrelated note:

What would you guys say is Khaine's alignment? Neutral? Chaotic Neutral? Lawful Evil?

Trying to work it out for when I start building them when I get the inevitable "What's the difference between him and Khorne?"

[Arkalid]

21 minutes ago, Aspirant Snaeper said:

On an unrelated note:

What would you guys say is Khaine's alignment? Neutral? Chaotic Neutral? Lawful Evil?

Trying to work it out for when I start building them when I get the inevitable "What's the difference between him and Khorne?"

Khaine would be Lawful Evil (at least he was when he was still alive). Khorne would be Chaotic Evil. The difference between them is that Khaine is highly organized and he has some tenets that his followers must follow (like no killing helpless people, at least to some extent). Khorne doesn't care who dies, as long as the blood flows. Also, Khaine is less interested in the exact way someone dies, whereas Khorne only cares about the brutal hand- to-hand combat.

[DantePQ]

It's more like what Morathi's alignment is and I think it's Lawful Evil - she is Evil for sure, but she build a structure around her and I guess she hates Chaos more then anybody in Mortal Realms (and that's a nice spin on her backstory as in Old World she wanted to use Chaos to fullfill her goals).  She knows that in order to survive she must work with Sigmar, Malerion, Twins etcbut she will scheme against everybody if it fits her agenda. 

I love how GW changed her story , she's still that badass character (even more so now) but she GOT to be in Order as it's only GA that accepts her and now she's sworn enemy of Chaos.  I think right know she's the best written character in AoS lore. 

 

[Overread]

I think Morathi's alignment is clearly "woman scorned" which deserves its own category! 

I'd even say that Daughter's as a faction are actually closer to a Neutral/Chaotic Evil than anything else. See the DnD chart fails for Warhammer because Chaos is a very specific thing in Warhammer not a measure of temperament or attitude. We already know that Witches are mostly in the throws of a kind of bloodlust when in battle which makes them very chaotic allies - just as apt to killing allies as enemies. From their own perspective they are worshipping their god by killing so them its not evil, but to most others it would be considered very evil; they just tolerate Morathi because her forces are very good at killing chaos and from Sigmar's point of view they are ideal allies as Morathi's hatred of chaos means that they won't break from Order's primary objective. In that regard they are like the Slaan and the seraphon faction. 

We also have to consider how much influence Morathi has since is clearly a bit unhinged after her ordeal within Slaanesh. That touch of warp changed her mind and body and its clear that she has serious trust issues, specifically but not only with men, and thus her will is being imposed on the upper ranks very heavily. This filtering down to the lower ranks as well which I think is why they have less qualms about killing than they might have when under Khaines direct worship. 

It actually sets Daughters up for a very neat situation where if anything happens to Morathi she could cause huge changes in their attitude and society. It could even get as far as civil war if some were to resist her direct control and rise up against her. Indeed the way she is miss-representing Khaine himself lends to that angle potentially happening one day. We could see her cast down or even challenged by her own people; or Khaine could even manage some kind of tempering to her rage or madness

 

 

Khaine is the god of murder, but not slaughter or wanton killing; Morthai has less of that self control and more 

[DJMoose]

So after months of building up my DoK I am finally at the painting stage.  This is just a test Witch Elf, which is not too bad after nearly 10 years of not painting in the slightest.  There are several mistakes and definitely some work still to be done, but sadly my phone camera really does not do it justice.  My main question about the color scheme. 

Still working on the skintone, but it was Mechanicus Standard Grey, Edge Highlight of 50/50 Celestra Gray and Mechanicus Standard Grey, and then a wash of Drakenhof Nightshade.  I might just edge highlight it with MSG, because I used that to fix my mistakes after the wash and it looked alright after.

At first I thought about doing pure white hair, but now I am not so sure.  What do you all think?  Pure white hair with some kind of shade?  White with Drakenhof Nightshade (first pic) or Celestra Grey with Nuln Oil. (second pic).

Also, wow I am out of practice painting faces.  And to make it more difficult, Witch Elves are much smaller than Space Marines with those little details.  I might be old enough that I now need a magnifying glass to hit the eyes, eyebrows, teeth and lips. ?  I'm also not sure I want to drop $25 on the Super Artificer brush or whatever from GW.  But anyways, comments and definitely criticisms welcome.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2018 by DJMoose

[foxicious]

6 hours ago, DJMoose said:

But anyways, comments and definitely criticisms welcome.

I am at the painting stage myself atm. And it's going painfully slow ?

 

First of all, I really like your colour scheme! I am always a fan of blue schemes and I think the skin tone matches really well to the rest of your scheme. That being said I prefer the White with Drakenhof Nightshade for the hair.
I think it's more coherent with the rest of the scheme. Regarding the skin highlight: I think the skin looks pretty good as is. If you want to go for a lighter skin tone maybe change your painting order to Mechanicus Standard Grey -> Drakenhof Nightshade -> Highlight of Mechanicus Standard Grey -> Edge hightlight of Mechanics Standard Grey and Celestra Grey mix. You could also just add another layer of highlights with celestra grey before shading in your current painting order.
If you don't want to mess around with painting eyes you could also think about giving them glowy blue eyes. I feel like it would go really well with the scheme.

[Aspirant Snaeper]

Made a fun list after finding an unfinished prototype saved on my desktop. I can't see myself playing it anytime soon, but I figured I'd share it to inspire someone else, maybe. 

Now You're Thinking with Portals!

“A wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to.”

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine - Mortal Realm: Ulgu - Temple: Khailebron

LEADERS

• Hag Queen on Cauldron Of Blood (300) -  General - Command Trait : Mistress of Illusion - Artefact : Iron Circlet - Prayer : Blessing of Khaine
• Bloodwrack Medusa (140) - Artefact : Shadow Stone - Lore of Shadows : Mirror Dance
• Hag Queen (60) - Prayer : Sacrament of Blood
• Hag Queen (60) - Prayer : Catechism of Murder

UNITS

• 10 x Witch Aelves (100) -Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
• 10 x Witch Aelves (100) -Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
• 10 x Witch Aelves (100) -Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
• 10 x Doomfire Warlocks (320) - Lore of Shadows : Mindrazor
• 10 x Doomfire Warlocks (320) - Lore of Shadows : Mindrazor
• 5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)
• 5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)
• 5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)
• 5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)

BATTALIONS

• Shadow Patrol (130)

TOTAL: 1950/2000 

The key points here are Mirror Dance, Mistress of Illusion and Shadow Patrol. Not to mention four units of deep-striking Heartrenders. Mindrazor makes Doomfire's and Heartrenders terrifying in close combat. Two sets of ten, teleporting Warlocks ensure that I can potentially wipe 12 6 wounds right off the board at the beginning of the game. The Cauldron with Witch Escort can potentially aggro something nasty, then send the Witches across the battlefield and then swap places with the help of the Medusa and a foot-slogging Hag Queen (R.I.P.). Alternatively, a Foot Slogging Hag Queen can find herself teleported to safety, and the once squishy looking Witch Blob she was chasing suddenly becomes a much tougher affair when the Cauldron pops up behind them. 

The drawbacks are low model counts. This army cannot stand against a hard hit, although with all of the Witch Brew going around, at least Battleshock shouldn't be a huge problem for the Witch Aelves who will be the ones more likely to receive it. 

Question regarding the Shadowpaths rule: The way it's worded, if I don't move in the movement phase, can I then move at some other point in the Battle round? With that later move essentially being my move during the movement phase? It doesn't seem to specify that it has to be done during the movement phase, only that it counts as your movement phase movement.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Aspirant Snaeper

[DJMoose]

1 hour ago, Aspirant Snaeper said:

Question regarding the Shadowpaths rule: The way it's worded, if I don't move in the movement phase, can I then move at some other point in the Battle round? With that later move essentially being my move during the movement phase? It doesn't seem to specify that it has to be done during the movement phase, only that it counts as your movement phase movement.

Rule as written once per battleround instead of moving in your movement phase, you can use the Shadowpaths rule.  That is their movement for that phase.

To me it seems that you could choose to move normally in the movement phase, choose to not move in the movement phase, or sacrifice your normal move to then use the Shadowpaths rule.

Edited August 23, 2018 by DJMoose

[DantePQ]

@Aspirant Snaeper looks Amazing !! Would love to give it a go one time, unfortunately you won't be able to blast 12MW as you can cast only one Doombolt. 

Also I came up with an army I will playstest next - it's bonkers, it's strange, uses Morathi as a general, doesn't run Cauldron. 

Realm : Ulgu

Temple : Draichi Ganeth 

Morathi - General, Mindrazor 

3xHag Queen (Martyr's Sacrifice, Sacrament of Blood, Catechism of Murder - one with Spellmirror) 

2x30 Witches with (1xknives,1xBucklers), 30 Sisters of Slaughter with two weapons 

2x10 Liftakers 

Chronomatic Cogs 

Cauldron Guard

it's just pure alhpa strike, Chronomatic Cogs + Cauldron Guard give me essentially +6 do Movement, it's ultra fast, ultra mobile two units of 10 lifetakers to ensure they can even start battle not in reserve, when in reserve I got +3 do charge (crazy with Mindrazor) it's 4-5 drop , with Witchbrew and Draichi Ganeth this army is bonkers. Also you can cast Martyr's Sacrifice on one unit (maybe even swap knives for shields on that unit) so even if it goes second and gets decimated it will be costly for enemy, then second turn just activate Morathi CA and take carnage to a new level. Sure optimal choice is to place Morathi near Arcane to have easier Chronomatic Cogs. 

Spellmirror to give some extra magic protection for 1-2 turns also it's aura so very nice. 

Also there is room to swap 10 Lifetakers for 5 Doomfires to get me some more magic presence or to go with 20 strong unit of lifetakers (but that would mean cutting one Witches unit to 10) so there is some room for changes. 

Edited August 23, 2018 by DantePQ

[Tasman]

On 8/21/2018 at 12:22 AM, InSaint said:

1. Put the Medusa on a Shrine and cast Steed of Shadows - 16" flying shrine is hilarious! ?
2. Mindrazor and Withering are not very easy to cast w/o any buffs to casting rolls as 7+ is only a 40%
3. Try to include a Slaughter Queen so that you can use Orgy of Slaughter Command Ability - If you get a double turn ?
4. Consider either Hagg Nar or Khailebron - Khailebron can teleport Doomfire to Arcane Terrain and snipe off hero with Doomfire
5. Consider dropping the Endless Spells - I personally find it unreliable but very fun to play with
6. Consider splitting the Witches into 2 squads for greater flexibility

I ran the list shown. Game was over turn one with over half of his force (Fireslayers)wiped out. I jumped an objective on the first turn for 3 VP with the warlocks and killed everything on the other side of the table with the witch elves. Game over as he wasn't going to be able to contest 2 of the 3 objective points. In all fairness, I've NEVER seen worse dice than this dude rolled. When his tunneler unit charged, they were supposed to do a MW for every one of his guys that was within 8" of the unit charged. He rolled 25 dice..... not a single 6. The game actually went south further from there for him. He rage quit then. I'm sorry for that as we were both trying new armies for the first time .

[foxicious]

@Aspirant Snaeper The list looks crazy (in a good way). Reminds me of old hit and run Dark Elf lists withs lots of Dark Riders. Would you value the additional CP higher than the extra unbind and command ability of a slaughter queen?

EDIT: Nevermind. Totally forgot that Doomfires can also unbind. Well in this case an additional unbind is probably not needed.

@DantePQ really looking forward to the results of your playtesting. I was messing around with Lifetakers, Cauldron Guard and Chronomatic Cogs, too (in Hag Narr though). In the end I wasn't sure if all the "work" was worth it for the Lifetakers, since I feel like they are just more mobile Witch Aelves. So I am definitely interested in how they will be doing in your list ?.

@Tasman Grats on your victory!

Edited August 24, 2018 by foxicious

[Aspirant Snaeper]

3 hours ago, foxicious said:

@Aspirant Snaeper The list looks crazy (in a good way). Reminds me of old hit and run Dark Elf lists withs lots of Dark Riders. Would you value the additional CP higher than the extra unbind and command ability of a slaughter queen?

EDIT: Nevermind. Totally forgot that Doomfires can also unbind. Well in this case an additional unbind is probably not needed.

Yes, I was going to ask about how many Unbinds you felt were ideal. 

But really, the list was just a random inspiration I had. Anyone can adjust it to how they see fit! I can imagine that it will be very unforgiving. There's only 115 wounds, low saves, etc. If I or anyone played it, they'd have to make sure every movement was timed right and most buffs were successful. The army feels like it would work best spread across the board, which means few synergies being passed around. 

But boy would it be fun.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Aspirant Snaeper

[DJMoose]

I would like to title this story "My Inability to Roll Armor Saves," or "Why I chose Khalibron over Hagg Nar."

So we finally met for another round of our Firestorm campaign after about 4 months and a new edition of AoS coming out.  Another player and I were running a mixed Order army with a little bit of fudging with allies and allegiance abilities.  The other Order player doesn't have too many models.  Basically 30 Corsairs, a Fleetmaster, a cannon, and some handgunners.  I had him take a gunmaster for rerolls to hit for his cannon.  I took the following to fill in the gaps as we ended up with 1500 pts:

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- General
- Trait: Devoted Desciples
- Artefact: Miasmatic Blade
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer: Catechism of Murder

Battleline
10 x Blood Sisters (280)
10 x Blood Sisters (280)

Total: 760 / 1500
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 51
 

I challenged the Beastmen player to a battle in the Titanworks, (I imagined it as a huge forge) so we were using the realm of metal spells.  With the Open War cards we ended up with basically hammer and anvil deployment but with our deployment zones directly adjacent.  Our objective was "Kill the Messenger," where after deployment we chose a single model to be the messenger and we had to kill our opponent's messenger to win.  The twist was that heavy rains gave a -1 to shooting, as well as -1 to run and charge rolls.   The Beastmen player had 1600pts and had 2 big blobs Gors, a blob of Ungor archers, a blob of Bestigors, a Shaman, a Beastlord, a Cygor and a Ghorgon. He finished deploying first because he had 1 less unit than us. 

 

Unfortunately I forgot about Beastmen and their ambushing ability, so half his army came up behind us first turn, forcing my snakes to split in half to push towards his Shaman messenger hiding behind his Herdstone, and being forced to face his Bestigors with another unit of Blood Sisters, one of them being the messenger, as your general could not be the Messenger.  The first turn was pretty brutal, as the corsairs went up the left flank to engage to blob of Gors surrounding the Shaman, and my Snakes charged at the Bestigors instead of definitely getting charged next turn.  My Medusa proceeded to melt 7 Bestigors in the shooting phase while the cannon knocked a couple of wounds off the Cygor that was getting very close.  My Blood Sisters charged the Bestigors, killing another seven, but with the Beastlord there they were not going to flee.  My Blood Sisters with the messenger were frenzied with Witchbrew and so were not going to run either.  My other unit of Blood Sisters engaged the Cygor, inflicting 9 wounds on it.  Thankfully the Cygor failed to hit any attacks in it's combat phase, thankfully saving my snakes from several 3 damage attacks. 

 

By the bottom of turn 2 things were getting tense.  Due to incredibly bad rolling on my part, I could not make any armor saves, nor boosted Fanatical Faith rolls for my snakes, leaving me with two snakes left in the unit with the messenger fighting the Bestigors.  The corsairs managed to kill a bunch of the Gors around the Shaman, leaving an opening for my other snake unit to scoot across the table as they were able to down the Cygor.  My snakes managed to take down the Shaman, winning the game, but had my opponent had the chance to choose his Beastlord over by the Bestigors, he would have killed my messenger, giving him the game.

 

I have played with Hagg Nar a couple of games now, and unfortunately it has done nothing for me due to a) extremely bad rolling on my part, rendering the bonus to Fanatical Faith saves moot, or b) the game ended before turn 3, negating the huge bonus to rerolls that turn.  Thus most of the time I have won I have been using Khaliebron, where having extra Melusai units in my Temple Nest has helped, as well as the amazing teleportation ability.  I want to use Hagg Nar more for the resilience it can give, but it doesn't help when my dice do not cooperate. ?

 

Anyways, yet another win for the Daughters!

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by DJMoose

[Big Rob]

Hi DoK folk,

I'm a fan of the Medusa theme this faction has going on. Is it possible to have a viable 2k army focusing heavily (even exclusively!?) on them, instead of the "regular" elves? Probably use the Khalebron temple and the temple battalion since these buff the medusas and are the fluffier picks I think.

Any good? Or too many shortcomings to not include/focus on the other elves? 

[DJMoose]

11 minutes ago, Big Rob said:

Hi DoK folk,

I'm a fan of the Medusa theme this faction has going on. Is it possible to have a viable 2k army focusing heavily (even exclusively!?) on them, instead of the "regular" elves? Probably use the Khalebron temple and the temple battalion since these buff the medusas and are the fluffier picks I think.

Any good? Or too many shortcomings to not include/focus on the other elves? 

Absolutely. A Medusa makes Blood Sisters battleline. I have seen several armies, including my own that are all snakes. Blood Sisters are brutal, Medusas are decent in combat and basic wizards, and Blood Stalkers are alright, but rather overpriced.

[Scythian]

53 minutes ago, DJMoose said:

Absolutely. A Medusa makes Blood Sisters battleline. I have seen several armies, including my own that are all snakes. Blood Sisters are brutal, Medusas are decent in combat and basic wizards, and Blood Stalkers are alright, but rather overpriced.

DJ is right. The all snake list is brutal! People hate them, lol

[Big Rob]

31 minutes ago, Scythian said:

DJ is right. The all snake list is brutal! People hate them, lol

That's awesome to hear.  How good are 1) Morathi and 2) Medusa on Throne in this sort of list? 

[Kramer]

3 hours ago, Big Rob said:

That's awesome to hear.  How good are 1) Morathi and 2) Medusa on Throne in this sort of list? 

Morathi seems good in any list  double shooting could be useful in the first turn (s) but as said the blood sisters are sadly much cooler models than Atheir rules are good. 

Don’t forget by the way you need to make a medusa the general to have snakes battleline. The throne adds some extra resilience and due to the base a bigger range to the gaze. So if you have the 80pts to spare it’s a great choice I feel ?

[Big Rob]

8 hours ago, Kramer said:

Morathi seems good in any list  double shooting could be useful in the first turn (s) but as said the blood sisters are sadly much cooler models than Atheir rules are good. 

Don’t forget by the way you need to make a medusa the general to have snakes battleline. The throne adds some extra resilience and due to the base a bigger range to the gaze. So if you have the 80pts to spare it’s a great choice I feel ?

The double shooting ability is exactly what I'm concerned about, won't be too effective,  though 2 blood stalkers are a battalion requirement anyways I guess. 

Maybe a silly question but can Medusa on Throne as a general make your blood sisters battleline? Or does it have to be on foot? Definitely appreciate the extra toughness if that's the case. 

Thanks

[Kramer]

7 minutes ago, Big Rob said:

Maybe a silly question but can Medusa on Throne as a general make your blood sisters battleline? Or does it have to be on foot? Definitely appreciate the extra toughness if that's the case. 

Both works 

[Aspirant Snaeper]

Me and my list building is a terrible way to stay involved in this hobby... Anyways, I had some inspiration for a 1000 point list and I actually quite like it. 

Daughters Of Khaine - Mortal Realm: Ulgu - Temple: Khailebron

LEADERS
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- General
- Command Trait : Mistress of Illusion 
- Artefact : Shadow Stone 
- Lore of Shadows : Mindrazor
Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer : Blessing of Khaine

UNITS
10 x Blood Sisters (280)
20 x Witch Aelves (200)
-Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
5 x Doomfire Warlocks (160)
- Lore of Shadows : Shroud of Despair
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)

TOTAL: 1000/1000

Shroud of Despair and Mindrazor combo here. Blood Sisters get mailed to the opponents rear first, or Doomfire's depending on the situation. Witches work as a screen for the Medusa and Hag to avoid getting shot off the table thanks to -2. 

All in all, for 1000 points I think this a surprisingly balanced list with a lot of bodies. Does some shooting without sacrificing it's melee teeth and can weather a 1k Gun Line. 

[Tasman]

11 hours ago, Aspirant Snaeper said:

Me and my list building is a terrible way to stay involved in this hobby... Anyways, I had some inspiration for a 1000 point list and I actually quite like it. 

Daughters Of Khaine - Mortal Realm: Ulgu - Temple: Khailebron

LEADERS
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- General
- Command Trait : Mistress of Illusion 
- Artefact : Shadow Stone 
- Lore of Shadows : Mindrazor
Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer : Blessing of Khaine

UNITS
10 x Blood Sisters (280)
20 x Witch Aelves (200)
-Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
5 x Doomfire Warlocks (160)
- Lore of Shadows : Shroud of Despair
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)

TOTAL: 1000/1000

Shroud of Despair and Mindrazor combo here. Blood Sisters get mailed to the opponents rear first, or Doomfire's depending on the situation. Witches work as a screen for the Medusa and Hag to avoid getting shot off the table thanks to -2. 

All in all, for 1000 points I think this a surprisingly balanced list with a lot of bodies. Does some shooting without sacrificing it's melee teeth and can weather a 1k Gun Line. 

Um, I'm new to these girls so:

How are you getting a -2?

[Aspirant Snaeper]

4 minutes ago, Tasman said:

Um, I'm new to these girls so:

How are you getting a -2?

Heroes gets -1 from the Look out, Sir! rule with shooting, and then Khailebron gives them (and the rest of the army as a whole) an additional -1. 

[Tasman]

19 minutes ago, Aspirant Snaeper said:

Heroes gets -1 from the Look out, Sir! rule with shooting, and then Khailebron gives them (and the rest of the army as a whole) an additional -1. 

Ah yes. Forgot about the LOS!

[Olincay]

Finally finsihed a tester, only 89 left to go! *cries in insanity* 

Any CC welcome.