AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

[JackStreicher]

[Underworld40k]

Good afternoon all - long time reader 1st time poster.

Just seeking some input on my DoK as to what to build. I have a  large collection (which I am increasingly moving out of the grey plastic pile of shame) but have hit a dilemma in building my 3rd shrine option. 

I currently have 1 bloodwrack shrine and 1 hag queen on CoB built and a 3rd partially assembled which I had ear marked for a slaughter queen on CoB.

However after some draft games and a lot of list building I am finding myself skipping over the SQ on CoB in most lists - the command ability is excellent but no Witchbrew and an extra 50 points for 3 extra attacks and an un-boosted unbind seems....disappointing? If it had dance of doom I would be all for it but alas. I have however been looking at doubling up on HQ on COB or BWS.

What are peoples experience and thoughts on them to date? The BWS seems like to much of a bargain not to consider having doubles of and witchbrew going to a roll means that i would seriously consider running to HQ on COB.

Am i just not getting the most out of the unit or are they feeling more redundant to people now?

[Chumphammer]

54 minutes ago, Underworld40k said:

Good afternoon all - long time reader 1st time poster.

Just seeking some input on my DoK as to what to build. I have a  large collection (which I am increasingly moving out of the grey plastic pile of shame) but have hit a dilemma in building my 3rd shrine option. 

I currently have 1 bloodwrack shrine and 1 hag queen on CoB built and a 3rd partially assembled which I had ear marked for a slaughter queen on CoB.

However after some draft games and a lot of list building I am finding myself skipping over the SQ on CoB in most lists - the command ability is excellent but no Witchbrew and an extra 50 points for 3 extra attacks and an un-boosted unbind seems....disappointing? If it had dance of doom I would be all for it but alas. I have however been looking at doubling up on HQ on COB or BWS.

What are peoples experience and thoughts on them to date? The BWS seems like to much of a bargain not to consider having doubles of and witchbrew going to a roll means that i would seriously consider running to HQ on COB.

Am i just not getting the most out of the unit or are they feeling more redundant to people now?

Even Witchbrew now is a maybe choice, especially if not hagg nar as that roll can easily fail.

If going snake heavy, Scathcoven is great for the BS immunity.

SQ ability is really useful, but depends how often you think you will get it off. 1st game I played with new book it didnt even get used, plus she never saw combat, so was 270pts of Blessing of Khaine. 

But, she can be really useful and one shot things.

I guess its really down to how you play your lists really 

[Milano]

On 3/13/2021 at 2:09 PM, JackStreicher said:

Looks great Jack! What kind of blue is that? Looks like a violet tinted wash was added as well

[JackStreicher]

10 minutes ago, Milano said:

Looks great Jack! What kind of blue is that? Looks like a violet tinted wash was added as well

Thanks!

It‘s vallejo Turquiose (base layer). Then „washed“ with Contrast Twrradon Turquise (or is it called Terradon Green?) and finally sprayed with Vallejo Green blue (or Blue Greeen).

It turned out way brighter than planned (that‘s what you get for painting in bad lighting xD)

 

 

[Lucentia]

5 hours ago, Underworld40k said:

Good afternoon all - long time reader 1st time poster.

Just seeking some input on my DoK as to what to build. I have a  large collection (which I am increasingly moving out of the grey plastic pile of shame) but have hit a dilemma in building my 3rd shrine option. 

I currently have 1 bloodwrack shrine and 1 hag queen on CoB built and a 3rd partially assembled which I had ear marked for a slaughter queen on CoB.

However after some draft games and a lot of list building I am finding myself skipping over the SQ on CoB in most lists - the command ability is excellent but no Witchbrew and an extra 50 points for 3 extra attacks and an un-boosted unbind seems....disappointing? If it had dance of doom I would be all for it but alas. I have however been looking at doubling up on HQ on COB or BWS.

What are peoples experience and thoughts on them to date? The BWS seems like to much of a bargain not to consider having doubles of and witchbrew going to a roll means that i would seriously consider running to HQ on COB.

Am i just not getting the most out of the unit or are they feeling more redundant to people now?

Personally I love a SQ on Cauldron, even if it's just 3 extra attacks over the Hag Queen version she still becomes one of the top damage pieces in the book with a few buffs, which can really throw opponents off if they're viewing her more as a support piece.  That said it's pretty easy to just magnetise the hero for the top of the cauldron so you can have the choice of both.

[Chumphammer]

17 hours ago, Lucentia said:

That said it's pretty easy to just magnetise the hero for the top of the cauldron so you can have the choice of both.

This, I have mine like that 

 

[Jacek]

Hi all,

I made a fun list for DoK temple Khelt Nar for snakes. Very mobile but quite fragile and most importand very fun to play with many options so I can react to what enemy is doing. Won local tournament with this 3-0.

4 drops total

Retreat and charge same turn - AWESOME (especially for Shadow Queen or any unit you manage to cast mindrazor on even if they are already in combat) + remember that Mindrazor works until YOUR next hero phase if you charged (so in enemy turn it works as well)

2x Khinerai + Shadowstalkers for teleporting on/near objectives + ironscale buffing Blood Sisters meaning you can practically capture up to 3 enemy objectives if he is not paying too much attention. Also help because enemy must make some hard decisions a lot of times or you will just reposition to your advantage.

I took Crystal Heart for Medusa if I need teleport +  her built-in spell (-1 to wound rolls for enemy unit) or because of positioning casting Bloodwrack Viper (by default try to use it with Morathi)

2x Bloodwrack shooting = nice anty-horde.

You can use any unit as sacrificial pawn to keep enemy in combat or lure them - losing anything does not hurt much as all units in the army have great use.

 

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine
- Temple: Khelt Nar

Leaders
Bloodwrack Shrine (160)
- General
- Command Trait: The Circling Flock
- Artefact: Gaisa's Falx
- Lore of Shadows: Steed of Shadows
Morathi-Khaine (210)
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
The Shadow Queen (390)
Bloodwrack Medusa (100)
- Artefact: Crystal Heart
- Lore of Shadows: Mirror Dance
Melusai Ironscale (110)

Battleline
15 x Blood Sisters (390)
5 x Blood Stalkers (140)
5 x Blood Stalkers (140)

Units
9 x Khainite Shadowstalkers (100)
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)

Battalions
Vyperic Guard (140)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Bloodwrack Viper (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 107

 

 

[PiotrW]

Hey guys, I got the new battletome and I have a question:

Is it still allowed for the players to come up with their own DoK temples?

I mean, the previous battletome listed four canon temples, but there was also this note that you could come up with your own temple and use the rules of one of the canon ones for it. Just like the Stormcast battletome gave you the option to come with your own stormhost. Meanwhile, the new battletome has six pre-defined DoK temples... but no mention of the option of coming up with your own...

This is something I noticed in other new GW books, too. The Lumineth battletome lists four Lumineth nations (from the Teclian hemisphere) with no mention of possible additional ones. Also, the new Deathguard codex lists seven plague companies and doesn't mention the option to come up with something else, either... Is GW scrapping the option of players coming up with their own background etc.? Weird...

[Gorsameth]

Not a single person is going to complain that you make up your own background for your own temple, so long as you used the rules for one of the temples in the book.

[Chumphammer]

6 hours ago, PiotrW said:

Hey guys, I got the new battletome and I have a question:

Is it still allowed for the players to come up with their own DoK temples?

I mean, the previous battletome listed four canon temples, but there was also this note that you could come up with your own temple and use the rules of one of the canon ones for it. Just like the Stormcast battletome gave you the option to come with your own stormhost. Meanwhile, the new battletome has six pre-defined DoK temples... but no mention of the option of coming up with your own...

This is something I noticed in other new GW books, too. The Lumineth battletome lists four Lumineth nations (from the Teclian hemisphere) with no mention of possible additional ones. Also, the new Deathguard codex lists seven plague companies and doesn't mention the option to come up with something else, either... Is GW scrapping the option of players coming up with their own background etc.? Weird...

Yeah. If you pick one of the 6 temples then you have to take those set artifacts, abilities etc etc

Can just take your own from the separate lists if you dont take a main temple, main temples just tend to offer more than just other stuff 

[Lucentia]

I don't think anyone would even be able to tell you the colour schemes of all six temples without looking it up first, no one is going to cause a scene if you use your own name/backstory.

[zombiepiratexxx]

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine
- Temple: Zainthar Kai

Leaders
Morathi-Khaine (210)
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
The Shadow Queen (390)
Bloodwrack Shrine (160)
- General
- Command Trait: Fearsome Presence
- Artefact: Crystal Heart
- Lore of Shadows: The Withering
Hag Queen (90)
- Artefact: Iron Circlet
- Prayer: Catechism of Murder
Slaughter Queen (100)
- Artefact: Crown of Woe
- Prayer: Sacrament of Blood

Battleline
5 x Blood Sisters (130)
5 x Blood Sisters (130)
10 x Blood Stalkers (280)

Units
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)

Behemoths
Avatar of Khaine (130)

Battalions
Scathcoven (140)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Bloodwrack Viper (40)
Bladewind (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 100
 

For more casual matched play among friends. Likely to be played into Ossiarch Bonereapers. 

[jhamslam]

FAQ is out. Morathi back to -2 rend

[Underworld40k]

Some other interesting changes though - cauldrons fixed in terms of weapons/mounts as anticipated. Hag Narr nerfed massively with devoted disciples (did not see that coming!), can only pray once per hag/queen whcih gives the relics section a bit of a rethink and Khailebron teleport wording fixed.  

[Boar]

14 minutes ago, Underworld40k said:

Hag Narr nerfed massively with devoted disciples (did not see that coming!),

That's how it was literally in book tough IIRC. And "massively"? MW aren't that common compared to normal damage.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Boar

[Gokken]

If I got the prayer thing right now you have to choose between

Getting rune of khaine off and gaining 1d3 damage, using one of the 6 army prayers, using witchbrew, or awakening avatars?

is this correct? I fail to see how you can use cauldrens offensively now, outside of hagnar and maybe Draiche ganeth.

Also removing the 5+ from Hagnar was harsh, any horde killer spell and most units will kill you in seconds now. considering how normal 5+ does mortal wounds is now.

It was a fun month to play though with my daughters....

 

[jhamslam]

32 minutes ago, Boar said:

That's how it was literally in book tough IIRC. And "massively"? MW aren't that common compared to normal damage.

Boi have you seen LRL?

[jhamslam]

16 minutes ago, Gokken said:

If I got the prayer thing right now you have to choose between

Getting rune of khaine off and gaining 1d3 damage, using one of the 6 army prayers, using witchbrew, or awakening avatars?

is this correct? I fail to see how you can use cauldrens offensively now, outside of hagnar and maybe Draiche ganeth.

Also removing the 5+ from Hagnar was harsh, any horde killer spell and most units will kill you in seconds now. considering how normal 5+ does mortal wounds is now.

It was a fun month to play though with my daughters....

 

No it means theyll have to choose between the Runes / Awakening avatar of khaine, then they get to do the Book Prayer

[Mutton]

Morathi's back to -2 rend! Khailebron's no longer wonky! No more weird mount chicanery with cauldrons!

The Hagg Narr clarification is great. No longer is it the concrete winner among the temples--but it's still pretty darn good.

In my eyes, this was a perfect FAQ. It's everything I wanted.

[Gokken]

Just now, jhamslam said:

No it means theyll have to choose between the Runes / Awakening avatar of khaine, then they get to do the Book Prayer

I want you so hard to be right, but it says any prayer they know, dont they know bonus prayers? as I see it its either rune of khaine, avatar og faction prayer?

[jhamslam]

4 minutes ago, Gokken said:

I want you so hard to be right, but it says any prayer they know, dont they know bonus prayers? as I see it its either rune of khaine, avatar og faction prayer?

Its how its worded in every other book, you get one warscroll ability prayer and one book prayer. They clarified that ivocations arent prayers

[Underworld40k]

 

25 minutes ago, jhamslam said:

No it means theyll have to choose between the Runes / Awakening avatar of khaine, then they get to do the Book Prayer

Actually I think its just the one. The old battletome worded the rule to allow the faction prayer to be rolled for alongside the warscroll prayer. Not so now.

44 minutes ago, Gokken said:

If I got the prayer thing right now you have to choose between

Getting rune of khaine off and gaining 1d3 damage, using one of the 6 army prayers, using witchbrew, or awakening avatars?

is this correct? I fail to see how you can use cauldrens offensively now, outside of hagnar and maybe Draiche ganeth.

Also removing the 5+ from Hagnar was harsh, any horde killer spell and most units will kill you in seconds now. considering how normal 5+ does mortal wounds is now.

It was a fun month to play though with my daughters....

 

Its not that bad though - with brew is a war scroll ability and not a  prayer so isn't effected.  Avatar wakes up round 3 anyway and imo is the real mvp for damage from the cauldron, d3 blade of khiane is cute but not exactly setting the world aflame. Having to chose between the prayers is a little more irritating but i suspect people are running more than 1 hag/queen and you can always run the khainite pendant if you need 1 super buffbot. 

1 hour ago, Boar said:

That's how it was literally in book tough IIRC. And "massively"? MW aren't that common compared to normal damage.

Mortal wounds are pretty common in some play groups and plenty of effects can bring them en mass. Losing 50% of mortal wound protection is going to hurt a lot of Hag Narr players who took the temple for the explicit durability boost is going to hurt. 

It is more that i don't think anyone ever interpreted it that way - the old battletome was always used as if it gave a 5+ shrug v mortal and that was never questioned or addressed in an errata so I suspect most players will have been expecting it to simply say yes (See Morathi going to rend 1 as something everyone raised an eyebrow about and they have changed back). 

It seems odd that they want to make the distinction as it is not something that a lot of new players will likely pick up on as it changes only 1 part of a mechanic that covers 2 things, slows the game down further and just raises issues ala the Ard Boyz shield debate from back in the day. 

[Mutton]

My interpretation of the new prayer restriction is that you still get 1 warscroll and 1 "known" prayer from the chart. The warscroll wording wasn't changed and still says you get to chant one of them in the hero phase---they are not "known" prayers. The changes to this rule just mean you can't use Rune of Khaine to pray for 2 chart prayers in the same turn.

If you have any Avatars in your army, you also get to chant the awakening prayer, as per the wording on the warscroll.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Mutton

[Chumphammer]

Haggnar can still work well with Avatars

Take Iron circlet and Sacrament of blood

Cast it on any model in the army and they now count as having Zealots rage in turn 1, so all Avatars are now awake without a roll 

Edited March 23, 2021 by Chumphammer