AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

[Avindskjold]

I’ve yet to get  my hands on the new battletome, but I’ve had the old Devoted of Morathi box for a while, largely untouched. From what I’ve read, our warscrolls became a lot more viable across the board and big blocks of witch elves aren’t the sole way to go now.

That said, does it seem better to pick one element of the faction and focus on supporting that (say, witch elves vs melusai) or is there any merit to a varied list containing many different units from the roster? I’m planning on getting started with a vanguard list and deciding how to assemble the units in the box.

[Peegee]

@swarmofseals do you see a more optimized version of the "Kunnin DoKk"?

I know it's 2 drops but I'm concerned not having at least one screen unit...

 

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine
- Temple: Khailebron

Leaders
The Shadow Queen (390)
Morathi-Khaine (210)
- Lore of Shadows: Mirror Dance
Melusai Ironscale (110)
- Artefact: Whisperdeath
Bloodwrack Medusa (100)
- General
- Command Trait: Mistress of Illusion
- Artefact: Shadow Stone
- Lore of Shadows: The Withering

Battleline
15 x Blood Stalkers (420)
15 x Blood Stalkers (420)
20 x Witch Aelves (200)
- Sacrificial Knives and Blade Bucklers

Battalions
Vyperic Guard (140)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 110

[swarmofseals]

@Peegee I'd probably go with a 20 block of stalkers and cut the 20 Witch Aelves for 5 sisters or stalkers and Lauchon.

So it'd be 20 stalkers, 10 stalkers, 5 whatever.

That'd bring you down to 1 drop and give you the option of double shooting on turn 1.

The lack of screens is absolutely a concern, but then again morathi, your heroes, and your two smaller units are all screens.

Caveat: I'm not 100% sure you can fit 20 snakes on Lauchon, and if you can't then that's a problem.

 

Either way I don't think this is the strongest DoK shooting build. I'll need to test it but I think my other build is better (hag cauldron, 3xshrine, 9x5 stalkers). It has no single target that you can take out to cripple the list, has nearly as much firepower, and can be all over the board at the same time. It should work a lot better against Idoneth as you will have a greater ability to not waste shots. I think it's almost certainly better in the mirror match even though you can't dictate the turn order.

Assuming average rolls, Vyperic Guard shooting first will kill 12 snakes. 33 snakes shoot back and kill 9 snakes. The problem is that Vyperic Guard is now down to 2 units of 10, and thus only 60 shots next turn while the 33 snakes have 66 shots and the chance to pull off the double. Even without the double VG eventually loses.

That's an oversimplification, but there are a bunch of factors that I'm ignoring which help the distributed list.

[Peegee]

17 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

Either way I don't think this is the strongest DoK shooting build. I'll need to test it but I think my other build is better (hag cauldron, 3xshrine, 9x5 stalkers). It has no single target that you can take out to cripple the list, has nearly as much firepower, and can be all over the board at the same time. It should work a lot better against Idoneth as you will have a greater ability to not waste shots. I think it's almost certainly better in the mirror match even though you can't dictate the turn order.

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks, that list looks brutal! Medusae on shrine are as insane as Stalkers.

[Blitzd]

6 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

Either way I don't think this is the strongest DoK shooting build. I'll need to test it but I think my other build is better (hag cauldron, 3xshrine, 9x5 stalkers). It has no single target that you can take out to cripple the list, has nearly as much firepower, and can be all over the board at the same time. It should work a lot better against Idoneth as you will have a greater ability to not waste shots. I think it's almost certainly better in the mirror match even though you can't dictate the turn order.

I like this list, but I wonder if 7x5 stalkers with 2 units of shadowstalkers for the teleport threat would be better. It leaves 120 points for maybe an extra cp, snake spell and 30 point bid. Extra cp and a bid seem to be more and more valuable

[swarmofseals]

17 minutes ago, Blitzd said:

I like this list, but I wonder if 7x5 stalkers with 2 units of shadowstalkers for the teleport threat would be better. It leaves 120 points for maybe an extra cp, snake spell and 30 point bid. Extra cp and a bid seem to be more and more valuable

I could see that if you're going Hagg Nar, but if you're Khailebron you've already got plenty of access to teleports and this list won't be very CP hungry. Mirror Dance might be enough as is.

 

[Blitzd]

51 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

I could see that if you're going Hagg Nar, but if you're Khailebron you've already got plenty of access to teleports and this list won't be very CP hungry. Mirror Dance might be enough as is.

 

I think the extra cp would be good to put pressure on for teleports turn 1. I was looking at a 2x20 block list, but I'll definitely be trying an msu list

[5kaven5lave]

Warscroll Builder is apparently up to date now chaps and chapesses. 

[Jaskier]

Is anyone else struggling to decide between the Iron Circlet and the Shadow Stone in a Hagg Narr build? I feel like getting Mindrazor off is more important than ever, but ensuring Blessing of Khaine is up is probably still more important with how deadly everything is in AoS nowadays.

[Jacek]

10 minutes ago, Jaskier said:

Is anyone else struggling to decide between the Iron Circlet and the Shadow Stone in a Hagg Narr build? I feel like getting Mindrazor off is more important than ever, but ensuring Blessing of Khaine is up is probably still more important with how deadly everything is in AoS nowadays.

I think Iron circlet is better.

DoK never had strong casting, there are too many possible unbinds waiting even for successful mindrazor. I treat it as bonus (if it goes through - nice). 

Prayers can't be unbound so if it kicks in - you have it.

If you want to be super safe for prayer - get 1 avatar on foot (it gives prayers +1 to work so with iron circlet you have 2+ with re-roll 1). Also - in this situation your worst roll outcome is 2 if you roll 1 so you do not receive MW even if you fail (on prayers it is roll of 1, not unmodified roll of 1 )

[Jaskier]

14 minutes ago, Jacek said:

I think Iron circlet is better.

DoK never had strong casting, there are too many possible unbinds waiting even for successful mindrazor. I treat it as bonus (if it goes through - nice). 

Prayers can't be unbound so if it kicks in - you have it.

If you want to be super safe for prayer - get 1 avatar on foot (it gives prayers +1 to work so with iron circlet you have 2+ with re-roll 1). Also - in this situation your worst roll outcome is 2 if you roll 1 so you do not receive MW even if you fail (on prayers it is roll of 1, not unmodified roll of 1 )

Yeah that's where I'm leaning as well, so many lists can just auto unbind and ruin your day on the few occasions you do get it off. It's a shame because it's definitely one of the best spell buffs in the game. 

[5kaven5lave]

Good point about prayers - what about going all in and taking Blood Sigil for 2 prayers? The prayer page says a priest can chant each prayer it knows... Catechism and Martyr’s Sacrifice could be horrific to play against. 

[Chumphammer]

Yarb, I have avatar and Iron Circlet with Hagg Nar.

Means Avatar and Blessing should be up np turn 1 with Avatars being auto turn 2

[Mutton]

3 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Good point about prayers - what about going all in and taking Blood Sigil for 2 prayers? The prayer page says a priest can chant each prayer it knows... Catechism and Martyr’s Sacrifice could be horrific to play against. 

If you run an Avatar on foot, I think it's definitely worth it to go Blood Sigil. Double the prayers with only a roll of 1 failing (but not causing damage).

[Chumphammer]

1 hour ago, Mutton said:

If you run an Avatar on foot, I think it's definitely worth it to go Blood Sigil. Double the prayers with only a roll of 1 failing (but not causing damage).

I am thinking of Blood sigil but being able to pretty much guarantee your prayer will go off with blessing over weighs sigil atm 

[DJMoose]

On 2/24/2021 at 9:40 AM, Arzalyn said:

So the new tome has a really cool piece of art of the avatar shaped has Morathi. Does anyone has any ideia on some head swaps that could help make something similar? (I don't have the avatar, so I'm unsure of it's head size comparade to the shadow queen or morathi-khaine models for example)

The things you find on etsy: 

[Gorsameth]

Thats a 40k Avatar.

The same etsy store also has a more DoK version (imo)

 

https://www.etsy.com/listing/943701513/eldar-amish-avatar-of-khaine-98mm-height?ga_search_query=avatar&ref=shop_items_search_2

[DJMoose]

31 minutes ago, Gorsameth said:

Thats a 40k Avatar.

The same etsy store also has a more DoK version (imo)

 

Yeah I saw both of them and ascetically I liked the one with the spear better. *shrug*

[Chumphammer]

Hehehe

i made a 2 drop Morathi-Gotrek list 

Posted it in the Khelibron section

[KK in HK]

The point difference between SQ on Cauldron and HQ on Cauldron is 50 (270-220 but SQ and HQ on foot is 10 (100-90). It seems that SQ on Cauldron is quite expensive? or did I miss something?

Also, the book (p.67) said each Priest can chant each prayer that they know. Does that means a priest can chant 1 prayer from the general prayer list (2 if with blood sigil)  and 1 prayer from the warscroll and 1 for Animated Avatar (if Avatar is in the army)? I think the correct answer is 1 prayer per priest but want to make sure.  

[Grom]

Can DoK still use the Bloodwracked Sisterhood battalion? If so, what are the points? It is not on the Warscroll builder. Thanks.

[Grom]

8 minutes ago, KK in HK said:

The point difference between SQ on Cauldron and HQ on Cauldron is 50 (270-220 but SQ and HQ on foot is 10 (100-90). It seems that SQ on Cauldron is quite expensive? or did I miss something?

Also, the book (p.67) said each Priest can chant each prayer that they know. Does that means a priest can chant 1 prayer from the general prayer list (2 if with blood sigil)  and 1 prayer from the warscroll and 1 for Animated Avatar (if Avatar is in the army)? I think the correct answer is 1 prayer per priest but want to make sure.  

The wording and layout is confusing. I think it is only one prayer in total including the "animated" prayer listed under the Wrath of Khaine ability in the warscroll. On first read I thought the warscroll had only two prayers: Rune of Khaine and Touch of Death listed under the Priestess of Khaine ability. This ability states that only one of the following prayers can be made. I think it includes the Wrath of Khaine ability too.  

[UnholyRevenant]

How have people painted the endless spells. I've got mine sitting with a friend who does commission work, and I cant decide how to paint the snake. All red with all red blood effects is a tad to much for me. The others I like the stock colour scheme. Just cant decide on the snake.

[Eternalis]

7 hours ago, KK in HK said:

Does that means a priest can chant 1 prayer from the general prayer list (2 if with blood sigil)  and 1 prayer from the warscroll and 1 for Animated Avatar (if Avatar is in the army)?

Yes. It has always been the case.

[5kaven5lave]

3 hours ago, Eternalis said:

Yes. It has always been the case.

This is amazing. Prayers are looking so good to me at the moment, I’m very tempted to take Blood Sigil even without buffs, 66.6% chance to get each of 2/3 prayers off without chance of countering is bananas, and if the risk of rolling a 1 is too great, just cast the most important ones. Having played lots of Skaven that risk / reward dynamic is something I find very enjoyable and it’s a great response to magic Doms.