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AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion


Chris Tomlin

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Just noticed the Hagg Nar 5++ shield is by model wholly within and not by unit. Practically that means with the range increase from 7 to 12 it's largely unchanged in terms of effectiveness. It stops situations where you would have used one model to give the whole unit the shield, but still allows for some amount of congalining and doesn't fully deny 12.1 inch charges the way the witch aelf change does.

Still a nerf but a very fair one that I have no problem with considering it primarily functions to eliminate the most egregious exploitations of the rule.

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8 hours ago, Xil said:

They probably reused some of the CGI/CAD data from Morathi 

Wow. That’s a hunk of plastic.

I dislike the low detail and chunkiness of the sculpts on endless spells I’ve seen,  but the snake is pretty cool. Feels like GW’s answer to my prayer for a non Morathi begemoth

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I had a Hag Narr test game today (see 2k list above)..with my 5 years old daughter. Desperate times require desperate measures 😄 so actually playing against my self..BUT I had some insights.

1) Bloodwrack Medusa as general on foot is very risky. In this game 9 raptors shot her of the table round 1. Afterwards my army falls apart with bad saves. Maybe Khailebron next time.
2) Shadowqueen unbuffed hits like a wet noodle. The rend loss on Heartrender really hurts. Still a good harassing unit/locker but not more. A pity, she is the model why I started DoK in the first place.
3) Mindrazor is so hard to cast omg.
4) Morgwaeth is a steal for 80pts. And the witchbrew is quite doable with 2 haggs. 
5)  Stalkers. They are the best. Played 10 of them. Still its a pain to be back to Anvil of Heldenhammer SCE playstyle. Initially I chose DoK as my 2nd army to go away from phew phew. But here we are again..I know I could ignore them, but they are so much better than Blood Sisters and I had Melusai boxes laying around. Uff

Had a wonderful time still. I enjoyed seeing my daughter being so happy to crush my DoKs with devastating dracolines. 😅

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2 hours ago, Milano said:

2) Shadowqueen unbuffed hits like a wet noodle. The rend loss on Heartrender really hurts. Still a good harassing unit/locker but not more. A pity, she is the model why I started DoK in the first place.

I sent an FAQ question to their team about this. I can't believe this was intentional, absolutely no one was complaining about -2 rend on a god's weapon. I encourage everyone to do the same if we potentially want to see that reverted.

Edited by Mutton
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49 minutes ago, Mutton said:

I sent an FAQ question to their team about this. I can't believe this was intentional, absolutely no one was complaining about -2 rend on a god's weapon. I encourage everyone to do the same if we potentially want to see that reverted.

Did the same on the week the previews arrived.

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4 minutes ago, pbL` said:

Ok I guess I should provide more details -  the same list should include a morathi and other heroes. 

About 40 should be the absolute maximum that you‘ll need.

most constellations I‘ve seen were

10-20 Bloodstalkers

5 Bloodsisters

10-15 Blood Sisters

Morathi (both)

Melusai/Medusa general

Something else (if points are left)

Edited by JackStreicher
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2 hours ago, Aliase said:

Bloody Snek!

PXL_20210222_001055891.jpg

Nice! Is that colorshift paint?

3 hours ago, Peegee said:

20 Blood Stalkers and Morathi feels pretty oppressive. Like Lumineth Archers oppressive level. But I guess we'll see that a lot on the tables...

I think it'll be more oppressive than sentinel spam. Blood Stalkers are more efficient and have almost as good threat range.

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Guys, need an advice. How competitive do you think this snake list is? And how would you improve it?

 

Zainhar Kai

600 Morathi
110 Melusai Ironscale

110 Melusai Ironscale

90 Hag Queen

10 x 280 Blood Stalkers 

10 x 260 Blood Sisters

10 x 260 Blood Sisters

 140 Battalion Vymperic Guard

80 Heart of Fury

40 Snake (endless spell)

Total Points 1970 

 

Or

Zainhar Kai

600 Morathi
110 Melusai Ironscale

110 Melusai Ironscale

15 x 420 Blood Stalkers 

10 x 260 Blood Sisters 

10 x 260 Blood Sisters

140 Battalion Vymperic Guard

40 Snake (endless spell)

+ 1 CP (50 pts)


Total Points 1990 

 

Edited by Shmaravoz
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20 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

Blood Stalkers are more efficient and have almost as good threat range.

I dunno if you've played against Sentinels, but I assure you 5+ mortals, ignoring line of sight at 30", on a unit that's always -1 to hit is more oppressive than Stalkers. Sentinels are the best ranged unit in the game--maybe sharing the spot with Seraphon Salamanders. The big thing Stalkers have is being able to shoot in the hero phase for a CP, which still costs a CP and a Morathi. But if we're going to start talking about combos, we then also need to talk about how the Sentinels will always have that 5+ ward protection from Teclis, have a 50% chance at ignoring spells, etc.

Stalkers are good, but they're not Sentinels.

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So I don’t know if anyone saw, but the Khinerai Heartrenders ability says they get improved rend if they were set up. Doesn’t that mean if you use Khailebron’s CA or the Shadow Patrol ability to redeploy, they would get improved rend? Unsure if that makes them any better but it’s a neat little interaction.

Edited by Nilworth
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2 hours ago, Mutton said:

I dunno if you've played against Sentinels, but I assure you 5+ mortals, ignoring line of sight at 30", on a unit that's always -1 to hit is more oppressive than Stalkers. Sentinels are the best ranged unit in the game--maybe sharing the spot with Seraphon Salamanders. The big thing Stalkers have is being able to shoot in the hero phase for a CP, which still costs a CP and a Morathi. But if we're going to start talking about combos, we then also need to talk about how the Sentinels will always have that 5+ ward protection from Teclis, have a 50% chance at ignoring spells, etc.

Stalkers are good, but they're not Sentinels.

I've played a ton against sentinels and honestly they don't bother me much. Granted I'm mostly used to running into ~40 sentinel + Teclis lists.

IMO the problem with sentinels is that while they are very good at assassinating characters they aren't nearly as good at killing troops. Power of Hysh isn't guaranteed, even with Teclis and Zaitrec it fails nearly 1 in 10 times before unbind attempts.

In terms of absolute offensive efficiency sentinels and stalkers are roughly even, but sentinels are very biased toward mortal wounds. That means that they are good against really hard targets but they kinda suck against low save targets and ward saves. 20 sentinels lofting only kill 7.38 Chaos Marauders or 3.56 Phoenix Guard, for example. They are ideal against heavily armored foot heroes and the like, dealing 6.33 damage to a 3+ save hero with -1 to hit, for example.  Blood Stalkers have a more even distribution of mortals and rend 1 damage, which makes them effective against a wider range of targets. They kill 9.33 Chaos Marauders and 4.08 Phoenix Guard. Not amazing, but 15% more damage against PGs and 25% more damage against marauders. They will deal 5.83 wounds against that lone foot hero, an 8.5% advantage for the sentinels. With Morathi's double shoot that damage literally doubles, of course.

Sentinels are probably a little better on defense at base, and of course their defense is strong with Teclis. -1 to hit is typically around a 30% damage reduction, giving Sentinels a defensive efficiency against rend 0 of about .214 with Teclis' 5+. Fully buffed Stalkers are on another level though: .317, and that doesn't require nearly as much investment to attain. Sentinels also have more bravery problems.

Perhaps the biggest thing for me is build efficiency. Lumineth builds nearly always take Teclis and a cathallar, and on top of that you need at least 2 units of wardens. So even if you just spam sentinels after that the absolute most you can fit is 60.

With stalkers all you need is a 100 point hero and you can put the rest in stalkers if you want. You may not want to do that, of course. But you can make a list with 4 behemoth leaders and still fit 45 stalkers (equivalent to 90 sentinels). You can take Morathi and still fit 45 stalkers.

So yeah, just warscroll to warscroll I think that stalkers are sentinels are pretty similar in terms of oppressiveness. But when fully buffed stalkers are better on both offense and defense, and DoK army restrictions make them dramatically more spammable than sentinels.

Not that it much matters but I found that head to head stalkers win easily. When I was testing morathi + stalker builds or 40 stalker builds I was undefeated against Lumineth, and when I played Khailebron I basically won on turn 1 in every game. That doesn't exactly work anymore, but the same effect can be achieved with Lauchon.

 

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2 hours ago, Nilworth said:

So I don’t know if anyone saw, but the Khinerai Heartrenders ability says they get improved rend if they were set up. Doesn’t that mean if you use Khailebron’s CA or the Shadow Patrol ability to redeploy, they would get improved rend? Unsure if that makes them any better but it’s a neat little interaction.

That was the case in the old scroll too, but yes, that's precisely how it works.

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3 hours ago, Shmaravoz said:

 

Guys, need an advice. How competitive do you think this snake list is? And how would you improve it?

 

Zainhar Kai

600 Morathi
110 Melusai Ironscale

110 Melusai Ironscale

90 Hag Queen

10 x 280 Blood Sisters

10 x 260 Blood Stalkers 

10 x 260 Blood Stalkers

 140 Battalion Vymperic Guard

80 Heart of Fury

40 Snake (endless spell)

Total Points 1970 

 

Or

Zainhar Kai

600 Morathi
110 Melusai Ironscale

110 Melusai Ironscale

15 x 420 Blood Sisters

10 x 260 Blood Stalkers 

10 x 260 Blood Stalkers

140 Battalion Vymperic Guard

40 Snake (endless spell)

+ 1 CP (50 pts)


Total Points 1990 

 

Both are illegal, Stalkers are 140 pts so you are over 2000 pts.

Besides this I don’t like Hag in heavy snakes lists.

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4 hours ago, Shmaravoz said:

Guys, need an advice. How competitive do you think this snake list is? And how would you improve it?

 

Zainhar Kai

600 Morathi
110 Melusai Ironscale

110 Melusai Ironscale

90 Hag Queen

10 x 280 Blood Sisters

10 x 260 Blood Stalkers 

10 x 260 Blood Stalkers

 140 Battalion Vymperic Guard

80 Heart of Fury

40 Snake (endless spell)

Total Points 1970 

 

Or

Zainhar Kai

600 Morathi
110 Melusai Ironscale

110 Melusai Ironscale

15 x 420 Blood Sisters

10 x 260 Blood Stalkers 

10 x 260 Blood Stalkers

140 Battalion Vymperic Guard

40 Snake (endless spell)

+ 1 CP (50 pts)


Total Points 1990 

Why take 2x Ironscale?

From what I see you can use CA only once per turn in your Hero phase?

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