AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

[swarmofseals]

21 hours ago, Xil said:

I don't see it as a difficult thing to do. And it's not the only ability working like that. 

 

BTW, another catch from Honest Wargamer: Doomfire Warlocks inside Hagg Nar bubble have a 4+ Save 5++ Aftersaves... Add to that Cogs, as they are wizards and can manipulate it, and you have rerollable 4+ Save and rerollable Fanatical 5++ with Blessing prayer. 

Have fun shifting them

That's pretty gross and creative.

23 minutes ago, Feii said:

how would the Wildform spell interact with Wrath of the Scáthborn CA? 

It wouldn't in any strange way. You'd run 2d6 +2 and then charge 2d6 +2.

[Feii]

14 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

That's pretty gross and creative.

It wouldn't in any strange way. You'd run 2d6 +2 and then charge 2d6 +2.

with 8 move characteristic for them that's  a huge threat range

[Chumphammer]

did this for fun to remind people how big wholly within 12 is 

I am going to put it on a game table to show how much space it takes up when you put it in the center obj

[Feii]

1 minute ago, Chumphammer said:

did this for fun to remind people how big wholly within 12 is 

I am going to put it on a game table to show how much space it takes up when you put it in the center obj

a banana for scale perhaps? 

[Blitzd]

13 hours ago, Jacek said:

New Avatar is 130 pts now, not 140.

Also for Hagg Nar - note that 5+ upgrade to faith save is NOT for Mortal wounds. So MW still saves only with 6s

Please correct me if Im wrong here

 

 

6 hours ago, Chumphammer said:

Its same wording as before so the 5+ is Mortal/wounds

This actually makes me think we've always been playing it wrong, the book and the core rules are pretty explicit that wounds and mortal wounds are two different things. Fanatical faith specifies both, but the hag narr ability specifies only wounds. I'm leaning to it not making MW protection 5+ and it never actually has. 

[Chumphammer]

Postit notes for scale

 

Board is 6x4

1st pic cauldron on 12" line

2nd on 18" line

Last in the middle

[Chumphammer]

7 hours ago, Ggom said:

Hold up hold up hold up 

Shouldn't we get our own dedicated subforum now that we have our new tome? See CoS and LRL. 

I demand satisfaction!

 

 

They are doing it on Saturday for Slaanesh and DOK when the books are out 

[DJMoose]

51 minutes ago, Blitzd said:

 

This actually makes me think we've always been playing it wrong, the book and the core rules are pretty explicit that wounds and mortal wounds are two different things. Fanatical faith specifies both, but the hag narr ability specifies only wounds. I'm leaning to it not making MW protection 5+ and it never actually has. 

The description of Fanatical Faith says on a 6 the wound or mortal wound is negated. On the Hagg Nar entry it says you make Fanaticial Faith rolls on a 5+. 

[Blitzd]

2 minutes ago, DJMoose said:

The description of Fanatical Faith says on a 6 the wound or mortal wound is negated. On the Hagg Nar entry it says you make Fanaticial Faith rolls on a 5+. 

It says you make fanatical faith rolls on 5+ for the wound roll. 

 

I can see both sides, the fact that FF does reference both as the wound roll in the last paragraph makes me believe the 5++ is for both, but they have used confusing words that I can see both arguments

Edited February 17, 2021 by Blitzd

[Fictional]

So now that we have most of our new rules info, is 2x shadow and pain halves worth it? Or perhaps just a start collecting and shadow and pain.  I was thinking of running mostly snake

Edited February 18, 2021 by Fictional

[KK in HK]

44 minutes ago, Fictional said:

So now that we have most of our new rules info, is 2x shadow and pain halves worth it? Or perhaps just a start collecting and shadow and pain.  I was thinking of running mostly snake

I would go for 2 shadow and pain first since It comes with more battlelines snake lady body. 

[Fred1245]

4 hours ago, Chumphammer said:

Postit notes for scale

 

Board is 6x4

1st pic cauldron on 12" line

2nd on 18" line

Last in the middle

So about 2 objectives on average. About what I thought it was.

[Fred1245]

4 hours ago, Blitzd said:

 

This actually makes me think we've always been playing it wrong, the book and the core rules are pretty explicit that wounds and mortal wounds are two different things. Fanatical faith specifies both, but the hag narr ability specifies only wounds. I'm leaning to it not making MW protection 5+ and it never actually has. 

DoK have been in a featured match in every major tournament since the book drop, often played by or against the designers of the game; and every time the rule was used as a 5++ against both wounds and mortal wounds so I think we're pretty much in the clear on that one.

[Fred1245]

On 2/16/2021 at 7:26 PM, Jaskier said:

Doomfire Warlocks seem really darn good to me. They're a wizard with a built-in +1 to cast and unbind, are incredibly fast, are more efficient defensively than most of the other units in the book, and offensively actually don't compare badly at all even to Witch Aelves before accounting for cross-unit synergies. 

Where they obviously fall down a bit is that our buffs are better suited to bigger units with smaller base sizes; getting 30 Witch Aelves within 1" is much easier than getting 15 Warlocks within 1" (though obviously being over twice as fast helps alleviate that) with the other very minor issue being we can't really buff their ranged profile. They also can't be Battleline which is a strong consideration for list building nowadays with regards to particular missions. 

Still, if you can make the most out of that 14" move to get as many of them in combat as possible, they're every bit as good a target for Mindrazor/Witchbrew/Catechism/etc as our other units - if not better - because of their 4 attacks per model and innate Rend on their blades. The ranged weapon also shouldn't be undersold; it's short ranged but can easily mince weaker/smaller screens which a Witch horde couldn't do on its own. There's also the consideration of just how good they are in Hagg Narr to surround a Cauldron; they can even give themselves Mystic Shield for that extra bit of tankiness. 

Definitely a unit I'm very interested in now for competitive lists (whereas before I always thought they were just decent) more choice is a great thing and that's easily the defining aspect of this new book for me so far. 

Doomfires definitely got better, even accounting for them not being able to cast lore of shadows spells anymore. There might just be something there, especially considering just about every other frontline unit took major nerfs. 

There's still some choices left in the book, it's the dedicated melee units that took the shaft. SoS, WA, and BS got hammered so hard I can absolutely see doomfires coming into their own as a result. Too bad they're so ugly.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Fred1245

[Fred1245]

11 hours ago, frostfire said:

I know everybody is happy with lifetakers having +1D and +1 rend on the charge now.

But what about their drawback? 5 wound with 6+ save at 80pts does not look very durable as we are in a shooting and magic meta. 

Rating them as harassing units might not seem appropriate because we have shadowstalkers which is insanely great atm.

Maybe people rate them as glass hammer damage dealer when charging?

Always had +1 damage on the charge so it's only the +1 rend they got. They're what they've always been, a great option for pressuring backline objectives and controlling your opponents movement in order to zone out their deepstrike. Neither they nor heartrenders have ever been particularly good at killing things and +1 rend on the charge certainly isn't going to change that. But they are still useful in their capacity as a deepstriking threat on underprotected objective. 

Just don't charge anything tougher than a depleted squad of liberators if you want them to live, lol.

[Fred1245]

9 hours ago, Eternalis said:

I don't see Lifetaker as an harrassing unit. To me, they are a kamikaze missile unit that may deal a lot of damage. 10 Lifetakers charging inside the Shadow Queen aura will deal a lot, even more with some buffs, which is pretty good for 160 points.

If I want to control objectives, I'd be using Shadowstalkers or Hearthrenders.

Lifetakers just don't have the damage output to be a kamikaze unit. Even with Morathi's bonus, 10 lifetakers only do 13 damage to a 4+ save on average. Without Morathi they only do about 9. It's not terrible output for the price but with how fragile they are, anything that counter attacks them IS going to kill the whole squad so not even being able to kill 80pts of liberators reliably is a problem.  They're still great at pressuring objectives and the extra rend helps them do that job better, but it doesn't quite give them any new jobs.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Fred1245

[Xil]

Lifetakers still suffer from 1" range. 

And that's why we never really saw them in competitive games. Even the extra Rend won't negate that.  If they had gone to 2" range they would be a great option, even without the extra Rend they have now. 

Big units aren't viable because of this and smaller units die to a sneeze breeze... 

I fielded them from time to time, but more because I dig the models and wanted to have some fun. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Xil

[Joseph Mackay]

My opinion on the Harpies, I like the models but they’re too fragile and expensive. They should have 2 wounds, and the spears should probably be 2” range in melee. I agree with the above, big units just don’t work but small units die too easy 

[DJMoose]

Snake Mom ready to bring her all Snake Daughters into the bloodbath.

A fantastic sculpt.  If you can get one, get one!  I'm normally one to convert characters to be unique but honestly this model did not need any changes. 

Pose is a little stiff but made up by the tail coiling all around the fallen pillar.

[DJMoose]

8 minutes ago, Joseph Mackay said:

My opinion on the Harpies, I like the models but they’re too fragile and expensive. They should have 2 wounds, and the spears should probably be 2” range in melee. I agree with the above, big units just don’t work but small units die too easy 

So you want flying Blood Sisters.  Literal Mini Shadow Queens.  I support this idea. 😁

[Nasrod]

1 hour ago, DJMoose said:

So you want flying Blood Sisters.  Literal Mini Shadow Queens.  I support this idea. 😁

Unironically, yes. Probably one of the top 5 sculpts in the game. Using them as a token 5 of Deep Strike with 1 round of passable shooting is peak feels bad. 

Double their points if you have to. Just stat them to the expectations their lore and sculpts make them out to be. 

[Jaskier]

Them being so cheap makes it so easy to work them into our lists, take the battalions they're part of and fit in even more stuff. They could be more elite but I'm perfectly content with them remaining as inexpensive ambushers because they do a damn good job of it.

Besides, Lifetakers are more than fine in units of 10; with a 14" flying move and the usual pile-ins, getting most of them into striking range shouldn't be too difficult in most cases. The other appeal to them is that 4+ roll for a free move after striking; if they can launch out and blow up something pricier than themselves, and then block movement in their opponents turn (or do it again in your subsequent double turn) then that's even better. Not something to bet on but it can be a really important bit of extra mileage. 

[Joseph Mackay]

So how were people dealing with the 5+ saves on the snakes?

I haven’t played this army since 2018. I had 1000pts of mostly snakes and some Doomfire Warlocks. I sold the army for reasons I don’t remember. In the hype for the new book, ive been looking at starting them again and played 2 games with proxies and they work how I remember-hits hard, but can’t take a hit back. The game has evolved quite a bit since I last played them, and I’d dread the thought of trying to play against the likes of Tzeentch or Realmlords

[Xil]

If you are afraid of losing snakes, then your option is Hagg Nar with Blessing on snakes. 

But it's not needed if you can play a good offensive strategy. No need for saves when the enemy blends with the grass

 

[Eternalis]

2 hours ago, Joseph Mackay said:

So how were people dealing with the 5+ saves on the snakes?

Strike first and kill them before they kill you

Pick a Hag on Cauldron to give your snake +1save and you may even take the prayer to reroll your fanatical faith rolls.