AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

[Bonesplitterz]

14 minutes ago, Silphid said:

The Avatar remains unchanged, right? I’m wondering if there a fun but still strong build to be made in hagg narr running 3-4 of them, cauldron and hags in support, hoping to capitalize on their value...🤔

It give +1 for casting prayer at 9 inches now

[Jaskier]

Doomfire Warlocks seem really darn good to me. They're a wizard with a built-in +1 to cast and unbind, are incredibly fast, are more efficient defensively than most of the other units in the book, and offensively actually don't compare badly at all even to Witch Aelves before accounting for cross-unit synergies. 

Where they obviously fall down a bit is that our buffs are better suited to bigger units with smaller base sizes; getting 30 Witch Aelves within 1" is much easier than getting 15 Warlocks within 1" (though obviously being over twice as fast helps alleviate that) with the other very minor issue being we can't really buff their ranged profile. They also can't be Battleline which is a strong consideration for list building nowadays with regards to particular missions. 

Still, if you can make the most out of that 14" move to get as many of them in combat as possible, they're every bit as good a target for Mindrazor/Witchbrew/Catechism/etc as our other units - if not better - because of their 4 attacks per model and innate Rend on their blades. The ranged weapon also shouldn't be undersold; it's short ranged but can easily mince weaker/smaller screens which a Witch horde couldn't do on its own. There's also the consideration of just how good they are in Hagg Narr to surround a Cauldron; they can even give themselves Mystic Shield for that extra bit of tankiness. 

Definitely a unit I'm very interested in now for competitive lists (whereas before I always thought they were just decent) more choice is a great thing and that's easily the defining aspect of this new book for me so far. 

[Mutton]

Just about everything in the book is good---makes list building a treat.

[Chumphammer]

2 hours ago, Silphid said:

The Avatar remains unchanged, right (140 pts?) I’m wondering if there is a fun but still strong build to be made in hagg narr running 3-4 of them, cauldron and hags in support, hoping to capitalize on their value...🤔

130pts

9w (think it was 8 before)

As above, +1 to cast when in range

[Joseph Mackay]

2 hours ago, Silphid said:

The Avatar remains unchanged, right (140 pts?) I’m wondering if there is a fun but still strong build to be made in hagg narr running 3-4 of them, cauldron and hags in support, hoping to capitalize on their value...🤔

As they’re behemoths, you could only have 3 + a cauldron (unless the cauldrons aren’t behemoths?)

[Milano]

Only avatars counts as behemoths. So running 4 at 2k would be fine. Insane but still fine 😄

[Jacek]

New Avatar is 130 pts now, not 140.

Also for Hagg Nar - note that 5+ upgrade to faith save is NOT for Mortal wounds. So MW still saves only with 6s

Please correct me if Im wrong here

 

[Bonesplitterz]

1 hour ago, Milano said:

Only avatars counts as behemoths. So running 4 at 2k would be fine. Insane but still fine 😄

Morathi, Cauldrons, Bloodwrack Shrines and Avatars are all behemoth.

[Méfilia]

10 hours ago, Feii said:

People were doom saying the new with brew but hagnarr has 5/6 chance of passing the test turn 3  and if you pass the sacrament of blood roll (if you pick it) you get 5/6 chance to pass the witchbrew test on turn 2 in hagnarr. 

 

You can't use the sacrement of blood before the brew

The brew is used at the start of the hero phase

[Gokken]

I think this will be the modified version of my old list Hagnar list before the book.

I ran 60 witches in a cauldren guard with 15 sisters and a ironscale.

Hagnar list

		2000
Lifetakers one group of 10 one of 5	240	1760
Cauldren gaurd	120	1640
Witches x 50	500	1140
Medusa foot	100	1040
Ironscale	110	930
shrine	160	770
Bloodsisters x15	390	380
Cauldren	220	160
Heart of fury	80	80
Mogwaeth	80	0

 

sorry for the weird format it was made in excel with new points.

I like how many thing we can get for 2000 points

One medusa has mirrior dance other one has Mindrazor

Priests will have catachism of murder and shield of khaine

I must say I am very much in doubt about artefacts, bloodsigil with battleshock immunity og increase blood rites are very good.

shadowstone is nerfed I know but still Its nice to get the spells off easier.

Artefacts are the most complicated I think

Depending on shadowstone or Sigil the cauldren accolytes og shrines goadstaves gets ulfuri so the 8 attacks have damage 2.

Edited February 17, 2021 by Gokken

[Lucentia]

I could be wrong, but I believe cauldron handmaidens/shrine goadstaves are counted as mounts, so those attacks can't be upgraded with artifacts like that.  Though if the Ulfuri just gives a flat attack bonus to the entire model that would work, but I think it only adds to a specific weapon?

[Gokken]

Just now, Lucentia said:

I could be wrong, but I believe cauldron handmaidens/shrine goadstaves are counted as mounts, so those attacks can't be upgraded with artifacts like that.  Though if the Ulfuri just gives a flat attack bonus to the entire model that would work, but I think it only adds to a specific weapon?

Yea it gives a damage bonus of 1 on one weapen when a model attacks, so the biggest amount of attacks would make sense right? not sure if it counts as a mount. would the statue also count as a mount then? is a giant cauldren really a mount :D?

[Jacek]

7 minutes ago, Lucentia said:

I could be wrong, but I believe cauldron handmaidens/shrine goadstaves are counted as mounts, so those attacks can't be upgraded with artifacts like that.  Though if the Ulfuri just gives a flat attack bonus to the entire model that would work, but I think it only adds to a specific weapon?

I do not see any information that says anything about mounts on cauldron warscroll. Only that it is single model armed with [ALL weapons listed]

[Lucentia]

Fair enough!  The old cauldron scroll was written before mounts existed in the same way, but I thought it had been FAQd in at some point.  If the new one also doesn't have the handmaidens as mount attacks then there's no issue, my mistake.

[Milano]

1 hour ago, Bonesplitterz said:

Morathi, Cauldrons, Bloodwrack Shrines and Avatars are all behemoth.

You’re right. My bad

[Xil]

2 hours ago, Bonesplitterz said:

Morathi, Cauldrons, Bloodwrack Shrines and Avatars are all behemoth.

That's a bummer 

[Ggom]

Hold up hold up hold up 

Shouldn't we get our own dedicated subforum now that we have our new tome? See CoS and LRL. 

I demand satisfaction!

 

 

Edited February 17, 2021 by Ggom

[Chumphammer]

7 hours ago, Jacek said:

New Avatar is 130 pts now, not 140.

Also for Hagg Nar - note that 5+ upgrade to faith save is NOT for Mortal wounds. So MW still saves only with 6s

Please correct me if Im wrong here

 

Its same wording as before so the 5+ is Mortal/wounds

[frostfire]

I know everybody is happy with lifetakers having +1D and +1 rend on the charge now.

But what about their drawback? 5 wound with 6+ save at 80pts does not look very durable as we are in a shooting and magic meta. 

Rating them as harassing units might not seem appropriate because we have shadowstalkers which is insanely great atm.

Maybe people rate them as glass hammer damage dealer when charging?

[Feii]

Just now, frostfire said:

I know everybody is happy with lifetakers having +1D and +1 rend on the charge now.

But what about their drawback? 5 wound with 6+ save at 80pts does not look very durable as we are in a shooting and magic meta. 

Rating them as harassing units might not seem appropriate because we have shadowstalkers which is insanely great atm.

Maybe people rate them as glass hammer damage dealer when charging?

I agree shadowstalkers are better if you want to have a unit that can threaten backfield objectives and they can protect your flanks because they dont have to start in the skies. 

their biggest problem is that if they come down they dont get any good charge bonuses. unreliable

[Lucentia]

If I'm using Lifetakers as a melee threat piece I'll normally just start them on the board, 14" flying is generally fine to get them where they want to be, and they're often ignored in terms of opponent's target priority (though that may change if they become a more common sight in DoK lists, and they are exceedingly fragile, but depending on terrain set up it's easier to keep them safe than non-flying units as they can just fly over cover as necessary.)

I'd be looking at using shadowstalkers for objective threat/harassing, whilst lifetakers seem best served as relatively cheap melee threat that can punch above their weight.  Heartrenders compete more directly with shadowstalkers in my eyes, they're technically better at sneaking onto an objective with their 4+ bonus move, and are much faster, but only get the one ambush per game and are less durable, probably you'd want to spend the extra 20 points to get shadowstalkers instead.

[Eternalis]

I don't see Lifetaker as an harrassing unit. To me, they are a kamikaze missile unit that may deal a lot of damage. 10 Lifetakers charging inside the Shadow Queen aura will deal a lot, even more with some buffs, which is pretty good for 160 points.

If I want to control objectives, I'd be using Shadowstalkers or Hearthrenders.

[Gokken]

20 minutes ago, Eternalis said:

I don't see Lifetaker as an harrassing unit. To me, they are a kamikaze missile unit that may deal a lot of damage. 10 Lifetakers charging inside the Shadow Queen aura will deal a lot, even more with some buffs, which is pretty good for 160 points.

If I want to control objectives, I'd be using Shadowstalkers or Hearthrenders.

This! 

if there is a small unit on an objective Lifetakes can fly there and take it, I would more use stalkers to teleport back to my own objective as more of my force move forward, lifetakes can remove stuff from objectives, shadowstalkers do need to use there ranged attack to do serious damage and you cannot do that from jump range.

[Feii]

Now that we can ally CoS what about a battlemage? 
 

Wildform (Ghur): The wizard transforms their allies into swift-moving bestial forms.
Wildform has a casting value of 5. If successfully cast, pick 1 friendly unit within 12" of the caster that is visible to them. Add 2 to run and charge rolls for that unit until your next hero phase. 

[Feii]

how would the Wildform spell interact with Wrath of the Scáthborn CA?